http://www.foxnews.com/great-outdoo...onic-wasting-disease-from-spreading.htmlIt's not often changes in a state's game laws makes national headlines.
Michigan Natural Resources Commission has approved new deer-hunting regulations to help curb chronic wasting disease from spreading, Michigan Department of Natural Resources said.
The rules, which go into effect for this year’s deer-hunting season, will pose new restrictions on baiting and feeding.
Among the regulations will be a statewide ban on the use of all natural cervid urine-based lures, and an immediate ban on baiting and feeding in the 16 counties that make up the Chronic Wasting Disease Management Zone, according to the state’s website.
Chronic wasting disease affects deer, elk and moose and has been spreading across counties in Michigan since it was discovered in a free-ranging deer in May 2015, Michigan Live reported. Though there have been no reported cases of humans contracting the fatal disease, hunters are advised against consuming meat from animals with symptoms.
There is no cure for the disease.
The rest of the state's regulations are listed below:
Reduced the 4-point on-a-side antler requirement on the restricted tag of the combination license in the 16-county CWD Management Zone. Under the new regulation, a hunter in the CWD Management Zone can use the restricted tag of the combination license to harvest a buck with antlers as long as it has at least one 3-inch antler.
Created a discounted antlerless license opportunity in the CWD Management Zone on private land; if purchased, the license will expire Nov. 4, 2018.
Effectively immediately, a statewide ban on the use of all natural cervid urine-based lures and attractants, except for lures that are approved by the Archery Trade Association.
An immediate ban on baiting and feeding in the 16-county area identified as the CWD Management Zone. This area includes Calhoun, Clinton, Eaton, Gratiot, Hillsdale, Ingham, Ionia, Isabella, Jackson, Kent, Mecosta, Montcalm, Muskegon, Newaygo, Ottawa and Shiawassee counties.
A ban on baiting and feeding in the Lower Peninsula, effective Jan. 31, 2019, with an exception to this ban for hunters with disabilities who meet specific requirements. The start date on this regulation is intended to allow bait producers and retailers time to adjust to the new rule.
Effective immediately in the CWD Management Zone and four-county bovine tuberculosis area (in Alcona, Alpena, Montmorency and Oscoda counties), hunters with disabilities who meet specific requirements can now use 2 gallons of single-bite bait, such as shelled corn, during the Liberty and Independence hunts.
Allowance of all legal firearms to be used in muzzleloader season in the CWD Management Zone.
A purchase limit of 10 private-land antlerless licenses per hunter in the CWD Management Zone.
Restrictions on deer carcass movement in the five-county CWD Core Area (Ionia, Kent, Mecosta, Montcalm and Newaygo counties) and the CWD Management Zone.
Antlerless options on deer licenses/combo licenses during firearms seasons in the five-county CWD Core Area.
Expansion of early and late antlerless seasons in select counties.
Changes to regulations regarding wildlife rehabilitators.
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In addition, the commission asked the DNR to move forward with:
An experimental mandatory antler point restriction regulation in a five-county CWD Core Area, including Ionia, Kent, Mecosta, Montcalm and Newaygo counties. The restriction would begin in 2019, provided a survey of hunters shows support for the requirement and specific department guidelines are met. This is intended as a tool to evaluate the effects of antler point restrictions on the spread and prevalence of CWD, along with deer population reduction.
A hunter-submitted proposal for mandatory antler point restrictions in Huron, Tuscola, Sanilac, St. Clair and Lapeer counties. If hunter surveys support this regulation and specific department guidelines are met, it would be implemented in 2019.
Agreed. Wish Wisconsin would do the same.
Agreed. Wish Wisconsin would do the same.
Yep!
This is going to be huge. While I'm personally ambivalent about baiting, I am really sympathetic to what's going on. There are farmers out there that devote a lot of their efforts to raising carrots, turnips, pumpkins, etc. just for the hunters and their bait piles. Every gas station has a huge pile of this stuff for sale. I'm also sure there are lots of MI hunters that have never considered any other way of hunting.
I'm also sure there are lot of MI hunters that have never considered any other way of hunting.
I cannot speak to lower MI but I can confirm that's the case in the U.P.
Though it doesn't appear the U.P. is subject to the ban.
Agreed. Wish Wisconsin would do the same.
Yep!
I think it's getting there. Though now I see a few counties where baiting was illegal last year, like washburn where we hunt, you can again. They're also giving out a pretty good amount of antlerless tags too. For about 5 years it was bucks only.
This is a pretty big deal for MI I think. It's a game changer for the U.P I do believe.
Looks like it bans deer pee scents too.
WV banned it in CWD areas and adjoining counties a while ago. VA has banned urine-based scents. Probably too little, too late in both cases.
There's a WMA not too far from here that only allows muzzleloaders during the rifle season. Reportedly, the bucks there average much nicer than most other areas, since they get a chance to grow up. Unfortunately, that area is also in the CWD zone, so any deer you kill has to be boned out and the skull totally de-fleshed before you move it out of the county. Kinda makes things tough for anyone not a local resident. I definitely wouldn't use a processor in a CWD zone, given the questionable practices of some. Supposedly humans aren't affected by those prions, but I've got enough trouble with my brain as it is, so can't afford any additional risk.
Should make for a very interesting season here. Making baiting illegal is the only cwd change I agree with but I’m not a biologist. The “kill’em all” mentality didn’t work in any state it’s been tried but apparently that’s the plan. Like I said, should be interesting this year.
Craig
does baiting increase the kill count, or decrease it? if disease is endemic, then what is the best strategy??
I couldn't agree more. I grew up not being able to bait, I don't know why it changed, and now look what it got us?
They should ban all baiting of ungulates in the USA.....
Agreed. Wish Wisconsin would do the same.
Yep!
I think it's getting there. Though now I see a few counties where baiting was illegal last year, like washburn where we hunt, you can again. They're also giving out a pretty good amount of antlerless tags too. For about 5 years it was bucks only.
This is a pretty big deal for MI I think. It's a game changer for the U.P I do believe.
The wolves took care of that !!!!!
All Minerals banned too! the Bad , is most guys that are 40 or younger have never hunted deer without bait! Ill still get my meat, but the state is going to lose alot of Hunters im afraid!
Craig
Game Biologist know the “Kill Em All” approach does NOT work. The prions are Already there in the soil and dead game not found.
They (prions) can survive, exist, for years and be transmitted by ANY scavenger.
Hopefully smarter heads will prevail. Good Luck
Jerry
They should ban all baiting of ungulates in the USA.....
IF they do it won’t bother me one bit. I have used feeders in years past but NOT in sight of a stand. I haven’t used any feed/bait in a long time.
My kill ratio didn’t drop but have actually killed more w/o any feeding at all.
Here feed/bait is illegal in counties surrounding the CWD zone. I live and hunt a long way from those areas.
Jerry
Jerry
I hope so but the availability of 10 antlerless tags apiece and taking the restrictions off the second buck tag leave me scratching my head. I suppose the biologists have a plan and it must be a major herd reduction. Which may not be bad in some spots. I do love the no baiting tho....no more neighbors sitting over bushels of corn! Might even see deer move “naturally” come firearms season.
Craig
No baiting means your neighbor will likely be baiting still.
Should make for a very interesting season here. Making baiting illegal is the only cwd change I agree with but I’m not a biologist.
If only they would outlaw animals from eating under the same Oak tree, or drinking from the same water hole. They also need to wear diapers so as not to pee on the ground. miles
They should ban all baiting of ungulates in the USA.....
You tell the farmers to stop growing soybeans, corn, turnips or to pull up their apple trees.
I couldn't agree more. I grew up not being able to bait, I don't know why it changed, and now look what it got us?
So you think baiting caused this? Nothing to do with animals being bought, trapped, and moved around by the game and fish agencies, and people raising deer for sale without a care where they came from? miles
Don't forget the bottled urine produced and sold, probably by some of those same folks. Those things are the most likely explanation for the pockets of disease that have popped up far from any other posible source, especially the bottled pee. We have CWD in places far from any game farms or known transplant activity.
The ban on baiting is to help contain the spread through saliva and concentrated contact. Whatever works is worth the inconvenience.
I personally don't know how effective different control methods are, but in the one case I am familiar with the Oneida outbreak in NY, NY used the "kill them all" method, followed by significant monitoring and whether it was the cause or not, NY has been CWD free for 12 years,
It is true that prions can survive for years in soil, but in the one study I saw median prion survival was around 7 months and most was gone in 2-3 years, though some small fraction persists for a long time. There were a lot of variables, a big one is moisture and the affected area in NY gets reasonable rain. So kill em all really knocks back the population when there are the most prions in the environment. Is this enough to be successful, don't know, not sure anyone really does.
in NY there baiting and salt have been illegal forever, and feeding has been discouraged for a long time ( of course all three still exist, but what can you do) , Now there are controls on import of live animals as well as rules for bringing meat back into the state. Urine based scents are gone as well.
Back when the outbreak occurred lots of folks didn't like how fast and hard the state reacted, but me I am happy they did.
I couldn't agree more. I grew up not being able to bait, I don't know why it changed, and now look what it got us?
So you think baiting caused this? Nothing to do with animals being bought, trapped, and moved around by the game and fish agencies, and people raising deer for sale without a care where they came from? miles
From what I've read it seems all 3 of those practices bear some culpability.
I have used feeders in years past but NOT in sight of a stand. I haven’t used any feed/bait in a long time.
Jerry
Here's a pic from Jan 2000. We had an ICE storm on 12/25/99 and THEN snow on TOP of the ice 1/1/2000
This pic is from a 12' tower stand. If I rotate the pic all I get is the link.
I had a feeder in the WOODS 80 yds from this stand. I have pix of the deer sign coming/going/ eating >> photobucket has them seized.
![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/iooE4hT.jpg)
I had 3-4 feeders out on 1400 acres. I was the ONLY one feeding deer during the ice/snow. We lost a lot of deer to starvation. Everything was covered and FROZEN. I P (international paper) lost Millions of acres of timber and SOLD a lot of land after that.
Jerry
ADDENDUM
During a few weeks then I could NOT keep corn in the feeders. Deer were HUNGRY.
Jerry
does baiting increase the kill count, or decrease it? if disease is endemic, then what is the best strategy??
I'm NOT a game biologist ! I'm NOT in the AG&FC ! Since CWD was discovered here in Ark. I've followed the story and searched the subject on the net PLUS one of our guys - mudhen ? - has contributed info per CWD.
One thing is a fact. Wherever CWD has been,.... it's STILL there. Go online and search CWD, you can find a map of the US where CWD is - was- has been.
It SEEMS ? the best answer is "containment". If it CAN'T be contained then MANY States would be completely COVERED by CWD and where CWD was discovered yrs. ago , those States are NOT consumed.
There are differing OPINIONS, ok, I'm NOT going to argue with anyone. I'm NOT an expert on anything.
Jerry
Here's' a map I got off the Net. I hope photoPUKEIT doesn't seize the pic.
At the time of this map... CWD had not been identified in Ark.
You can also tell the States where CWD has been and it's still there.
![[Linked Image]](http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l591/kleingunther/photo_zpsxneyu0bw.jpg)
Jerry
Its been banned where I hunt in northern lower peninsula for years, since bovine TB was the big issue. People still do. I do. In the area where I hunt, it's so dense and the lack of big open fields forces many to cut lanes out of the woods and baiting helps bring the deer to them. Otherwise, we'd see no deer. There's tons of food in the woods and water is not scarce.
I haven't heard of any cases of CWD or TB in the deer around us at all. And we're supposedly in the ZONE.
Should make for a very interesting season here. Making baiting illegal is the only cwd change I agree with but I’m not a biologist.
If only they would outlaw animals from eating under the same Oak tree, or drinking from the same water hole. They also need to wear diapers so as not to pee on the ground. miles
You sir are a dumbass
Do tell me the difference in a bait pile, and a pile of acorns that fell naturally, in the life of CWD. miles
Consider a disease, as you in the woods, needing to take a schidt.
Would you prefer to be able to use any oak tree in the woods,
Or,
Having to squat under the same tree as every other hunter?
Seriously, one sick deer slobbering over a pile of corn is much worse than it slobbering on a few scattered acorns.
PGC has always been aggressively anti-baiting. Anti-mineral. Even anti-scent for bears.
Now, they have totally banned any feeding or use of minerals for deer.
Even the use of pee based scents.
Of course every hardware, Tractor Supply, Wal-Mart, or sporting store still sells the stuff.
I couldn't agree more. I grew up not being able to bait, I don't know why it changed, and now look what it got us?
So you think baiting caused this? Nothing to do with animals being bought, trapped, and moved around by the game and fish agencies, and people raising deer for sale without a care where they came from? miles
The ones caught with bait piles or fed like feed lot domesticated bovines?
Acorns....."piles". That's a good one.
Why not just get the dump truck full of apples, build a concrete slab and a roof and get on with it....it is about YOU after all.
As for me , I hunt northern Wisconsin a little bit. I used to hunt it a lot but not much at all anymore. I am so sick of hunters running their ATV's all over public land to bait deer that I hardly hunt at my deer cabin anymore. Here are some points that are all but facts. Not all baiters are violators, but all violators are baiters. It is so easy to poach a deer past dark or out your cabin window with a pile of corn , just for that reason it should be illegal. Baiting for many hunters keeps you on one stand all season. There is a mentality that if you sit somewhere else, that is when the buck is going to come in. A very high percentage of buck shot over bait are 1 1/2 yrs old and puts pressure on young bucks. an old buck shot over bait is very likely poached and there is a lot of poaching going on in Upper Michigan and Wisconsin. I knew a guy who hunted upper Michigan . I asked , how was the deer hunting in " Da U.P.? He said it was ok but it was half over before it started. I said "huh" . He said there was more shooting the night before than opening day. Is this what deer hunting has become? Sure has in many parts. Get that buck at all cost and come hard charging back to the internet to brag you got your buck tag punched. If not , you are a whimp. Many hunters will violate for a while and then give up on the sport and that is fine with me. Also, gun deer season in Wisconsin is 9 days long, although there is 10 day muzzy and a 4 day doe hunt for any unused doe tags.I can guarantee that if you could get all the bait out of the woods you could gun hunt northern Wis. all of November and still not shoot as many bucks if there was no bait. The average buck would be older too. Deer need to browse a lot more if there is no bait to devour. And another thing about baiting. All these guys crying about the wolf. The wolves know where the bait piles are . They can follow deer scent right to them very easily. Deer around bait develop a pattern. At the bait around 4pm or so. When they do this they are easy pickings for wolves. The real reason deer hunting has become so hard is cause the deer dont move much in daytime at all when corn is in the woods. When I baited I never got big bucks on the cam in day light, always night time. They know better than to go there in daytime and at night they can eat all they want . They know very well when human scent was there. Also , another thing is it is hardly hunting . The deer becomes a target instead of a hunt. It takes nothing to shoot a deer with a gun at 20 yds. It's hardly even hunting.
MI banned baiting a few years ago too. Farmers lost their minds. There was bait still being sold at every gas station and you still came across the piles in the woods. The DNR is giving the farmers notice this time and it doesn't take effect statewide until the first of the year (CWD core area ban is immediate as is rifles during ML season). Last time the DNR tried to ban bait after crops were planted/harvested. The ban was lifted not long after.
I should add the caveat that statewide is really the LP. No way will bait be banned in the UP. It's been 50 years at the very least that it's been the preferred method of hunting up there. Some deer camps have special windows overlooking the piles that are able to be raised silently for the shot. No kidding. The sugar beet semi-trucks that head north all fall to cross the bridge on I-75 from the Bay area always come back empty. Dumptruck loads of bait are set out for one blind. There are hunters who have never known any other hunting than watching a bait pile. Wolves and weather have taken such a toll the past few years that bait is the only way hunters see anything. Ban bait up there and there will be anarchy.
When bait was banned in the LP a few years ago we saw way more deer during daylight hours. The deer were always there, but bait made them nocturnal. My camp doesn't bait. We've had to move to different areas because bait contaminates an area making the deer move after dark, which makes it harder to see shooter bucks during daylight hours. We're all for the ban.
CharlieFoxtrot , you noticed that too that the big bucks just dont move much when bait is around huh? The only time I eve saw a big buck over bait is when a hot doe was there. I stopped baiting a long time ago and enjoy hunting much more now.
Do tell me the difference in a bait pile, and a pile of acorns that fell naturally, in the life of CWD. miles
[quote=milespatton]Do tell me the difference in a bait pile, and a pile of acorns that fell naturally, in the life of CWD. miles[/quote
If I have to tell you, it would be a wast of time!! You wouldn't get anyway!!
Do tell me the difference in a bait pile, and a pile of acorns that fell naturally, in the life of CWD. miles
[quote=milespatton]Do tell me the difference in a bait pile, and a pile of acorns that fell naturally, in the life of CWD. miles[/quote
If I have to tell you, it would be a wast of time!! You wouldn't get anyway!!
I'm for it too...and I live in the Yoop. Wish it would be banned up here. I travel out of state just to get away from it and see a deer herd with natural movement patterns, strong rut, etc. I know MN confiscates your gun/bow if you're caught baiting. Wish that'd happen here!
Scouted NW Wisconsin a couple years in a row back around 2010. Left without ever returning due to their bait issues.
In my area of the U.P., the success rate hovers around 15% with the majority of bucks shot being yearlings. Those same deer could be saved without bait, IMO, increasing the age class and competition. Speaking of competition, our woods are almost devoid of buck sign nowadays. Another reason I travel.
I give the MDNR the least amount of money possible for deer hunting. They need to earn and deserve my money. Change things and I'll get interested once again.
In my area of the U.P., the success rate hovers around 15% with the majority of bucks shot being yearlings.
I don't like or use bait for deer hunting either, but see page 46 and 47 of the linked file for better numbers. 48.6% of hunters in the western U. P. and 36% of hunter in the eastern U. P. took one or two deer each.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2017_deer_harvest_survey_report_628089_7.pdf
CharlieFoxtrot , you noticed that too that the big bucks just dont move much when bait is around huh? The only time I eve saw a big buck over bait is when a hot doe was there. I stopped baiting a long time ago and enjoy hunting much more now.
Exactly. It's going to be a huge change to the hunting culture, but I firmly believe that hunters will have a better hunting experience without the bait around, even in the UP. Until game cameras came out we never knew those bigger bucks were there. Of course, we only got pics of them at night. I'm sure that it's the same throughout the state, but baiters just can't help themselves. I guess the law will hopefully change things.
If I have to tell you, it would be a wast of time!! You wouldn't get anyway!!
So you have nothing but bias against baiting. I do not bait for deer, just to be clear, but I do feed deer on my place, year around, with no stands near the feed and a camera on it. You will starve hunting this feed unless you hunt at night. What few come in the daytime are doe and young bucks. I also keep salt and mineral blocks nearby. CWD in Arkansas was most likely introduced by the game and fish when they bought Elk from Colorado to stock the Buffalo River area. They want to gloss this over and blame everything in the world except their part in the whole fiasco. If not for the Colorado "experts" that turned out a bunch of Elk with CWD to see what happened, there probably not be any problem in the US. In my common sense view, a pile of feed is a pile of feed, whether it be acorns or corn. Disease knows no difference. I have no idea how to get rid of it, once started, but common sense does not need to be ignored. miles
I just found this link for your perusal.
CWD miles
I just found this link for your perusal.
CWD miles
Thanks miles....but I don't DO facebook AT ALL.
From the AGFC.com site you can search CWD and find info as well.
Jerry
I just found this link for your perusal.
CWD miles
From the AGFC.com site you can search CWD and find info as well.
Jerry
Smart move. Those pricks are doing their best to crawl up the azz of everyone in the world. No point in helping them find yours.
Pappy
That's EXACTLY why I don't patronize F B.
Jerry
Thanks miles....but I don't DO facebook AT ALL.
From the AGFC.com site you can search CWD and find info as well.
You won't see this at AGFC. I tried to copy and paste this info, but facebook would not allow. Maybe I can find it elsewhere. miles
Acorns....."piles". That's a good one.
I have seen acorns 6-8 inches deep in places in West Central Arkansas. Steep draws where the acorns roll to one area. miles
I never thought of putting mineral licks out as a hunting strategy, just a way to keep things checking your place out.
Not what I was looking for, but pretty close.
Dr. James Kroll explains Chronic Wasting Disease in whitetails in this Dr. Deer segment from NAW TV.
There’s rarely a lack of disagreement between wildlife agencies and whitetail hunters. Of course, that’s nothing new; hunters have been complaining about season lengths, bag limits, appropriate equipment and much more for as long as there have been game agencies to put restrictions on hunter behavior.
But it isn’t always just hunters who disagree with agency decisions. Sometimes it’s other members of the wildlife management community.
Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is a case in point. Even now, nearly a half-century after this deadly deer and elk disease showed up in Colorado, and after untold millions of dollars have been poured into research and control measures,
we still know frustratingly little about CWD’s origin or even how it’s transmitted.But what we do know is that some harsh measures are being tried in an effort to stop CWD from spreading.
Read more:
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.c...er-disease-the-cwd-debate/#ixzz5OLXyS2bF
Deer in Arkansas, or at least where I live will quit Salt licks when the acorns start dropping, along with most corn use. As long as acorns are plentiful, hunt acorns. Soybeans come in second. miles
I put out Trace Mineral blocks. They are in the majority salt with just a trace of minerals.
Normally,-- my deer go thru 2 or so 50 # blocks each Summer. They need the salt to help preserve moisture/water.
However - this year 2018, I have ONLY put out 1 and there is some of it left right now. I bought another and it's in storage.
Here and in 3 other areas I've hunted since 1986, deer ONLY use the salt licks in Warm/Hot and dryER weather. Anyone sitting over a salt lick for bait is WASTING his time. I put them out to help wildlife. I see Doves and some other birds, my horses, & deer SIGN at my salt block.
Most of the time my deer hit the salt at night.
Jerry
Guys, I searched this Subject and BUMPED it up. Start on P 1 of CWD in Ark.
Jerry
The following is an excerpt from the Ark CWD thread and info pertaining to CWD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"The only skepticism I have of that is, the stocking happened in the 'early 80s'. That info is in the first Elk Hunting regulation guide.
That has been at least 30 yrs. [/b]The info about CWD says that the it 'can lay dormant for decades',[b] so it is possible.
Jerry
The following is from P 10 of other thread: NOTE "mudhen"
[/b]Re: Chronic Wasting Disease Has Reached Europe [Re: mudhen]
KC Online content
Campfire Guide
Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 4695
Loc: Colorado Springs, Colorado USA[b] Actually there is nothing new about Chronic Wasting Disease. It has been around since biblical times. It's just the name and identification that is new. CWD in wild cervids, mad cow disease, Scrapies in sheep and goats,
***and Creutzfelt Yakob disease in humans,***
are all the same disease. Scrapies has been around as long as men have herded sheep and goats. It's only that people are beginning to notice the rare disease in other animals and humans that it has become renown.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/nervou...ng_disease.html"CWD is a member of the transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE) family of diseases, or prion diseases, that includes bovine spongiform encephalopathy; scrapie of sheep and goats; transmissible mink encephalopathy; and kuru, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), and variant CJD of people."
It's often associated with cannibalism. Creutzfeldt Yakob disease was first identified in the 19th century in native cannibals living in the south Pacific and east Indies. The cause of mad cow disease was identified as stemming from placing the remains of dead cattle in cattle feed.
It also seems to be more prevalent in herds of animals living in confined spaces. This leads researchers to believe that cannibalism is not the only means of transmission.
KC
The following short quote comes from The Wildlife Society News Bulletin:
IN this longer report Matthew Dunfee said,
"Because there's no known management technique to eradicate CWD, the name of the game is not to eradicate CWD, it is to manage it."
Mr. Dunfee goes on to talk about CWD in Arkansas.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Manage it...... Contain it.
Jerry
as i am understanding the debate & discussion, that baiting doesn't matter one way or the other in the long run?
if a disease of any kind is extant in the system, then to minimize the number or amount of carriers might make sense?
this strategy might upset a lot of folks in the short-run, but in the long run it might be the only effective method available to us?
This is going to be huge. While I'm personally ambivalent about baiting, I am really sympathetic to what's going on. There are farmers out there that devote a lot of their efforts to raising carrots, turnips, pumpkins, etc. just for the hunters and their bait piles. Every gas station has a huge pile of this stuff for sale. I'm also sure there are lots of MI hunters that have never considered any other way of hunting.
And the Deer eating the carrots, turnips, etc before it is sold for bait piles?
This was/is Michigans baiting regulations: "No more than 2 gallons of bait on the ground spot at any given time. It must also be spread out over a 10 foot diameter."
I've ran across a couple while hunting Grouse in the upper UP. The limited size and amount, mean not many Deer are going to have much to eat for any length of time. Unless it is constantly refreshed, congregation will be minimal. Much less so than the place the bait was grown.
I've seen better attractants and concentrating of Deer during a good acorn mast than what 2 gallons of potatoes will do. I'm not for baiting, except when I'm hunting close to farmers corn, bean or alfalfa field.
Here in Pa, some are clearing and making small food plots right in the wood. I've said it before, plantings or food plots and baiting are the modern day "Ring of Fire".
Addition: Those planted food plots in the woods would be legal. Hunting around apple tress would also be legal. Bring in a bushel of apples and it becomes illegal and if found by or reported to the GC there are fines and the area will be closed to hunting for 30 days after the bait and all residue has been removed. Doesn't matter if someone else did it, you can't hunt it.
Addition 2: Then someone could secretly bait your property and turn you in. Now prove you didn't do it????
It's a slippery slope.
I know it happened here in Bedford Co.
Several years ago, when PGC announced that if you were in the vicinity of bait, you were guilty.
The first day of deer season a friend was hunting on another acquaintance 's property.
The owner had an ongoing feed with a neighbor. Who, it is suspected, spread the corn, then reported it.
Anyway, Robert was in the owners stand, when the warden showed up. Showed him the shelled corn and fined him.
Somehow, I think it was because all the corn was so fresh, he got the charges dropped.
However, the property still became closed to hunting for a minimum of 30 days.
Michigan isn't that Draconian yet.
If I have to tell you, it would be a wast of time!! You wouldn't get anyway!!
So you have nothing but bias against baiting. I do not bait for deer, just to be clear, but I do feed deer on my place, year around, with no stands near the feed and a camera on it. You will starve hunting this feed unless you hunt at night. What few come in the daytime are doe and young bucks. I also keep salt and mineral blocks nearby. CWD in Arkansas was most likely introduced by the game and fish when they bought Elk from Colorado to stock the Buffalo River area. They want to gloss this over and blame everything in the world except their part in the whole fiasco. If not for the Colorado "experts" that turned out a bunch of Elk with CWD to see what happened, there probably not be any problem in the US. In my common sense view, a pile of feed is a pile of feed, whether it be acorns or corn. Disease knows no difference. I have no idea how to get rid of it, once started, but common sense does not need to be ignored. miles
Maybe you (and game and fish) need to quit [bleep] with the wildlife; maybe spend a little more effort keeping it "wild".
The spread of CWD , blue tongue and other "confinement" type diseases no doubt occur in nature; that people feel the need to "care" for wild animals (that probably exist in artificially high numbers due to all the "love") isn't just exclusive to "fish and game" officials or game farmers.
If your "looking out" for wild animals like they're livestock or something you own, you're probably part of the problem....
MI DNR does over flights looking for illegal bait piles. They have for years. Pretty easy to see a dumptruck load of orange carrots, red apples, pumpkins, or yellow corn from 2000' up. My guess is that they'll step up those flights. Plus those who follow the law and come upon these huge piles on state land will send in the gps coords to the RAP line.
The other problem with baiting on public land is it gets damned territorial. Some guy who;s been bating an area for weeks thinks he owns the woods. When, in fact, state land is first come first served. Many stories of guys having not so friendly barrels leveled on them.
The other problem with baiting on public land is it gets damned territorial. Some guy who;s been bating an area for weeks thinks he owns the woods. When, in fact, state land is first come first served. Many stories of guys having not so friendly barrels leveled on them.
The good part about baiting is that it keeps some nailed down to one spot. The bad part is what you pointed out.
I couldn't agree more. I grew up not being able to bait, I don't know why it changed, and now look what it got us?
So you think baiting caused this? Nothing to do with animals being bought, trapped, and moved around by the game and fish agencies, and people raising deer for sale without a care where they came from? miles
High fence game farms are the source for CWD. Infected animals bought/sold/shipped all over the country. Eliminate the Game farms. There are none in Wyoming. We got our CWD epidemic from neighboring Colorado.
High fence game farms are the source for CWD. Infected animals bought/sold/shipped all over the country. Eliminate the Game farms. There are none in Wyoming. We got our CWD epidemic from neighboring Colorado.
How do you xplain CWD - before - high fence game farms ?
Jerry
The other problem with baiting on public land is it gets damned territorial. Some guy who;s been bating an area for weeks thinks he owns the woods. When, in fact, state land is first come first served. Many stories of guys having not so friendly barrels leveled on them.
BTDT.
I used to hunt the U.P. - my last experience killing a buck, and bizarro-world encounter with two "brudders" on the drag back the truck was something straight out of
Deliverance.
[quote=shootbrownelk]
How do you xplain CWD - before - high fence game farms ?
Rare and isolated.
Maybe you (and game and fish) need to quit [bleep] with the wildlife; maybe spend a little more effort keeping it "wild".
You will find that the deer here are plenty wild. Just barbed wire fences left over from when cows were raised. Like I pointed out earlier, the CWD animals are in the area where the G&F brought in Elk from Colorado. No telling where all the bones and such ended up from hunters before the G&F decided to let the public know about CWD. Now if you have a problem with feeding and baiting, just say so, but do not place blame for things that are not related. miles
How do you xplain CWD - before - high fence game farms ?
Rare and isolated.
HARDLY !
Jerry
Save money, no buying corn!
Guys here (NJ) bait by the truck load. I don't bait, I think it's unsportsmanlike. To each his own!
Not discrediting that one bit, but I'm involved in an area where we have 1,000's of acres to roam and each camp keeps tabs on sightings and success rates. We're seeing about a 15% success rate. Down about 7% since 2010. Way down since the 90's and WAY down for mature bucks being shot compared to that time.
IMO, we need major public land habitat improvement in the EUP.
I am not an expert , but here is my CWD related experience. I shot an obviously sick cow elk last year. She was standing in the middle of a small stream guzzling water like it was her civic duty. She did not react to my approach. I shot her and drug her out of the creek with a four wheeler( she was only a 100 yds behind my friends cabin). She weighed maybe 250 lbs at the most. Was a mature cow that was as skinny as any thing you could imagine. We opened her up for investigation and her intestines were clear like plastic wrap, collapsed and empty. She had not eaten in a long time. I do not believe a sickly animal like this would find its way to many bait stations. This was standing midstream, drooling into the creek that leads to a small pond. I believe that this would be a major spreader of the disease.
P.S. We took blood samples, the game warden we met coming off the mountain took lymph nodes and all tested positive for cwd. She went into an incinerator whole........ Which unfortunately is one of the few ways to kill the protein prions that cause the disease.....
Wyo 260
A pathetic, slow , agonizing, despicable way to die. HORRIBLE!!!!!
Jerry
I noticed a big area in Canada on jwall's map, and another in Colorado. Theory is that the Colorado one is where the disease jumped from sheep to elk. What about the area in Canada? Connected to Colorado in any way or another species jump? miles
Miles
I don’t have any background on the spread or sources of CWD per locales on the map. It’s obvious that CWD was already in Mo. before it was identified in Ark. I agree that most likely and probably CWD IS spread by transplanted animals and they
are contained for some period of time before release. Our CWD core area IS where the Elk were released AFTER being transplanted from Co.
They have proven the prions can be spread by scavengers. So buzzards , eagles, etc can spread CWD far & wide.
Jerry
Miles
I don’t have any background on the spread or sources of CWD per locales on the map. It’s obvious that CWD was already in Mo. before it was identified in Ark. I agree that most likely and probably CWD IS spread by transplanted animals and they
are contained for some period of time before release. Our CWD core area IS where the Elk were released AFTER being transplanted from Co.
They have proven the prions can be spread by scavengers. So buzzards , eagles, etc can spread CWD far & wide.
Jerry
And as Michigan biologists (as well as those in other states) have apparently found, it can be spread in areas where congregated feeding/baiting occurs, since milespatton doesn't think these things are related....
And I'm pretty sure the "wild animals" brought from CO were well fed then baited right into the trap that sent them to your state. This [bleep] isn't rocket science and I'll be damned if the motives aren't more about people playing Dr. Moreau than it is about enjoying wild animals, as much as they can be wild, given the need for people to feed, photo and see/shoot them on demand.
And as Michigan biologists (as well as those in other states) have apparently found, it can be spread in areas where congregated feeding/baiting occurs, since milespatton doesn't think these things are related....
Hawk, I don’t remember whether I stated my position or not on that so...
YES, CWD is spread in containment areas thru contaminated food, water, soil, etc.
when you concentrate the animals you also concentrate the source of the disease.
Also I believe $$$$$ play a big role in the motives as well.
Jerry
Not discrediting that one bit, but I'm involved in an area where we have 1,000's of acres to roam and each camp keeps tabs on sightings and success rates. We're seeing about a 15% success rate. Down about 7% since 2010. Way down since the 90's and WAY down for mature bucks being shot compared to that time.
IMO, we need major public land habitat improvement in the EUP.
Used to hunt the EUP in the early 90's. The winters of 95 & 96 damn near wiped em out. They lost something like 200,000 deer. Add in wolves and those 90s numbers have never come back making that area hard to hunt. Our camp of 11 saw a total of 4 deer in 10 days during the 97 season. We hunt dawn to dusk. Sort of demoralizing. We moved our camp below the bridge after that.
I do wish the UP would go back to 1 buck - archery and rifle combined - and back off on the doe permits. The habitat can handle a significant increase in the herd. DRIPs could obviously increased as well. However, the "instant gratification hunters" won't stand for reduced opportunity so we can rebuild the herd and the DNR won't do it because it's less $$$ for the department.
If I have to tell you, it would be a wast of time!! You wouldn't get anyway!!
So you have nothing but bias against baiting. I do not bait for deer, just to be clear, but I do feed deer on my place, year around, with no stands near the feed and a camera on it. You will starve hunting this feed unless you hunt at night. What few come in the daytime are doe and young bucks. I also keep salt and mineral blocks nearby. CWD in Arkansas was most likely introduced by the game and fish when they bought Elk from Colorado to stock the Buffalo River area. They want to gloss this over and blame everything in the world except their part in the whole fiasco. If not for the Colorado "experts" that turned out a bunch of Elk with CWD to see what happened, there probably not be any problem in the US. In my common sense view, a pile of feed is a pile of feed, whether it be acorns or corn. Disease knows no difference. I have no idea how to get rid of it, once started, but common sense does not need to be ignored. miles
It was mule deer, not elk. It was at Colorado State University 1967
Reports that I recall reading said Elk, but I do not know for sure. I never saw an elk nor a mule deer until a few years ago and maybe the reporter had not either. miles
So you have nothing but bias against baiting. I do not bait for deer, just to be clear, but I do feed deer on my place, year around, with no stands near the feed and a camera on it. In my common sense view, a pile of feed is a pile of feed, whether it be acorns or corn. Disease knows no difference. I have no idea how to get rid of it, once started, but common sense does not need to be ignored. miles
"Common sense view" would illustrate that the disease patterns congregated feeding/watering areas, whether in nature (limited prevention during drought or low food years) or artificially, by every swinging dick with a feeder and a bait pile.....
Not exactly, The experts still are not sure how it transmits. They know how in test tubes, but given the fact that is seems slow to spread, eating in the same place may not be the answer. Could be that the carcass of the dead ones is where is spreads. I know that when deer and cows for that matter are short on some minerals, they will gnaw bones. I forget what mineral, but you can get or used to be able to buy supplement for it. Certain areas of the county were bad for this deficiency. I am not saying that this is how it spreads, but it is possible. Seems to have gotten its start in Colorado in an old sheep station or some gathering area. Cross jump from scabies. Lots unknown. Lots of pressure to end baiting by certain groups before CWD came along, so everyone jumped on the band wagon. Nothing to me if the practice is banned, but a knee jerk by the people in charge is worthless. miles
I do not agree with everything the MI DNR does, but I much prefer them to do something
in an effort to make things better than do nothing.
There is a lot of speculation and unknowns with the CWD issue and it sure looks like the
future of it really sucks.
Between all the diseases we have seen recently, the coyotes, the property jumpers and
poachers, I am lucky to see a deer on our 80 acres of swamp and oaks.
I personally would like to see all baiting stopped country wide, but that is my preference.
I actually like to hunt for game.
My two cents.
Here in SW MI I'm in the cwd area and the no baiting doesn't bother me. We had a feeder out and my wife would hunt over it. She's disabled and doesn't have the luxury of hunting like I do. Whatever, it will still work out.
I put our feeder away this spring when the board first brought it up cuz I knew it would be adopted and we hired a Forrester and it's being logged for deer management.
It's the kill em all attitude these state knuckle heads have that pisses me off.
We practice QDM and our neighbors to the east are the same. These new rules won't change our hunting style, now all around us is a whole different story.
I put out Trace Mineral blocks. They are in the majority salt with just a trace of minerals.
Normally,-- my deer go thru 2 or so 50 # blocks each Summer. They need the salt to help preserve moisture/water.
However - this year 2018, I have ONLY put out 1 and there is some of it left right now. I bought another and it's in storage.
Jerry
A Follow Up - 8/22/2018
Here's a pic of my salt lick. That is the ONLY 50# block I have put out this year. - April IIRC
![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/9QLLnJe.jpg)
I took another pic of a deer track up close BUT you can see in this pic there are deer TRACKS. My horses love and need the salt.
I have seen deer at the salt in daylight Very few times.
Jerry
A permanent salt block "lick" will change deer behavior over time. Does go to it and the fawns us the same trail that mommy used. That is why is is effective for hunting. A buck has to scent check the area. Have experimented with them and it was interesting to see how long deer would use a trail once a long-term block was pulled. Several generations...
tomk
I had a salt lick on a deer lease for over 10 yrs. The deer had dug a hole 18" - 20" deep. It was in sight of a stand and I saw
ONLY 1 deer at it during the daylight.
Jerry
Bout 4 years back had some asswipe steal a Trophy Rock from one of my pits
A $15 chunk of mineral
Probably a jealous prick or gensing poacher
My experience with salt blocks is much different. Have seen and and have pics at all hours of the day and night. Granted, I put it in a spot that’s completely sheltered and deer feel comfortable there. And it’s been in the same spot for about 20 years....
I'm in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan where baiting is sacred. Having said that, I'd like to see baiting ban statewide. The CWD issue may be the priority for the regulation but I'd like to see the ban if only for putting the hunt back into hunting. Right now all we're teaching the young generation is how to sit still and watch a pile of corn. How boring and non stimulating.
Baiting is just like everything else. Each person is different. Crossbow vs compound, etc.
Baiting hasn't made hunters lazy, society has. Sitting over corn doesn't guarantee a big buck but people are lazy and don't want to put in the effort to scout, etc.
[quote=stevevan1]I'm in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan where baiting is sacred. Having said that, I'd like to see baiting ban statewide. The CWD issue may be the priority for the regulation but I'd like to see the ban if only for putting the hunt back into hunting. Right now all we're teaching the young generation is how to sit still and watch a pile of corn. How boring and non stimulating.[/quote
I used to hunt the UP 40 years ago. Nobody baited then why now!! Because we have no scruples!!!! Is has got to easy and fast. While we are at it lets do away with the seconded buck tag!!!!
I'm in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan where baiting is sacred. Having said that, I'd like to see baiting ban statewide. The CWD issue may be the priority for the regulation but I'd like to see the ban if only for putting the hunt back into hunting. Right now all we're teaching the young generation is how to sit still and watch a pile of corn. How boring and non stimulating.[/quote
I used to hunt the UP 40 years ago. Nobody baited then why now!! Because we have no scruples!!!! Is has got to easy and fast. While we are at it lets do away with the seconded buck tag!!!![quote=Joel/AK]Here in SW MI I'm in the cwd area and the no baiting doesn't bother me. We had a feeder out and my wife would hunt over it. She's disabled and doesn't have the luxury of hunting like I do. Whatever, it will still work out.
I put our feeder away this spring when the board first brought it up cuz I knew it would be adopted and we hired a Forrester and it's being logged for deer management.
It's the kill em all attitude these state knuckle heads have that pisses me off.
We practice QDM and our neighbors to the east are the same. These new rules won't change our hunting style, now all around us is a whole different story.
Your nieghbors to the North kill any thing!!
What about hunters who only have say 20 acres or less to hunt? And bait to attract or hold deer on their property? I'm not one of them by the way. Not long ago I was aware of six 55gal. feeders with huts or stands within 1/2 mile. Our county has been under a baiting/feeding restriction for the past 3years. This year we've been designated a CWD county.
You answered your own question. Baiting alters natural movement patterns of deer.
Actually I shouldn't have even included the word "attract". No need to attract them. Baiting situations I'm familiar with are set up on trails and used to delay deer as they pass through. Of course during the rut you could do away with the baiting if you wanted to.
My post was in reference to Joel's statement that "Sitting over corn doesn't guarantee a big buck but people are lazy and don't want to put in the effort to scout, etc." I'll add that it doesn't guarantee you'll kill any deer. I can remember when hunting deer over bait was never thought of. But over the years in many places large tracts of hunting property have become nonexistent. I remember when the buying or leasing of large tracts of land to hunt started. Between that and the selling of the huge tracts by the paper pulp company there wasn't much scouting to do. Next came the subdividing. People bought small tracts (no less than 2.5 acres could be sold) of say up to around 20 acres average. If they wanted to hunt there and if baiting since it was legal worked as a tactic they did. Now with the baiting/feeding ban that's out the window. Not sure what they'll do now.
Baiting isn't always bad, I actually don't have a problem with it. We bait on our property (100 acres). I don't hunt near the feeder but my wife does. She is disabled. She can't climb a tree stand, or even shoot a gun. The recoil would kill her so she hunts over bait with a crossbow. Can't use bait this year, no big deal. I'll figure it out for her.
Sometimes little things like baiting keeps people hunting.
First off I'm very sorry to hear of your wife's situation. But I'm REALLY GLAD to hear that she hasn't let it take away her desire to hunt. I figure that not being able to hunt over bait won't either. Yea sometimes little things like baiting do keep people hunting but if it's not legal then you got to try something else. I don't know what those around here who have done nothing but hunt over bait for the last bunch of years will do. I can say that it definitely doesn't sound like deer season use to around here judging by the gun shots. As for me I go away to hunt where there is still room to roam. Then after things settle down around here (after the first week of season) I've pretty much got the place to myself. Does are back in their regular routine and the bucks are still doing their thing. So I just keep a low profile watching the doe groups and wait for a buck to come along to check them out.
I couldn't agree more. I grew up not being able to bait, I don't know why it changed, and now look what it got us?
$$ think about all of the lucky buck,corn,carrots,sugar beets,apples that are sold for baiting.
I don't agree with MI's DNR, but then I don't agree with them on most things. First off, I don't hunt over bait, and don't use it. Their reasoning is to keep CWD from spreading.
Deer contact other deer snout to snout routinely during regular life, bait or not. Michigan's DNR also recently sent a survey concerning CWD that made the suggestion of opening seasons year round, allowing private property owners to shoot anything, and reducing the population of deer to near zero, which they have already done with over the counter doe permits.
I don't think these rules have anything to do with the deer population. I think they want it like "North Woods Law" where a deer has to be registered immediately, and then they come out and try to ticket for anything they can. Saw an episode where they harassed a family that had shot two turkeys near simultaneously and were registered so by honest hunters. They went to the house, separated the two hunters, and grilled and grilled trying to get one of them to admit to shooting both turkeys. Not the way it happened, so they left and said, "Maybe next time". That's really poor law enforcement if you ask me.
Our DNR advertises daily on libtard National Public Radio. To be honest, I think the goal is to make it so difficult to hunt that no one does, and at that point there is no reason anyone should have guns. I view them as the enemy but follow their nonsensical rules which change like the wind.
I'd love to see the banning of all ATVs on public land other than designated trails, and the morons just opened up practically the whole state. Some towns you don't see used car lots, one sees ATV lots! Just caught a guy driving across a creek with a side by side loaded to the gills with corn baiting for bear. He said he didn't know it was illegal to cross streams. I think it's the first page in the rule guide. Call the DNR and they'll yawn and say they'll send someone...next year...that is, if you even get a human...every call to them leads to an answering machine while they barbecue or make more coffee.
Well Red, we all have a right to personal opinions, but I personally think you stretched 3 or 4 points way past
reality, common sense and how MI operates.
And no, I do not agree with everything the DNR does, but they at least do something and mostly
get it right.
I do not consider setting over a bait pile hunting. Eliminating baiting will give some a chance to
actually hunt.
CWD is going to get REALLY ugly even with many states efforts to slow its spread.
Stopping it is appears nearly impossible and there are no sure answers at this time.
This could be the big one for deer, elk, caribou and antelope in North America before it runs its course.
Just my 2 cents.
Tim
I don't agree with MI's DNR, but then I don't agree with them on most things. First off, I don't hunt over bait, and don't use it. Their reasoning is to keep CWD from spreading.
Deer contact other deer snout to snout routinely during regular life, bait or not. Michigan's DNR also recently sent a survey concerning CWD that made the suggestion of opening seasons year round, allowing private property owners to shoot anything, and reducing the population of deer to near zero, which they have already done with over the counter doe permits.
I don't think these rules have anything to do with the deer population. I think they want it like "North Woods Law" where a deer has to be registered immediately, and then they come out and try to ticket for anything they can. Saw an episode where they harassed a family that had shot two turkeys near simultaneously and were registered so by honest hunters. They went to the house, separated the two hunters, and grilled and grilled trying to get one of them to admit to shooting both turkeys. Not the way it happened, so they left and said, "Maybe next time". That's really poor law enforcement if you ask me.
Our DNR advertises daily on libtard National Public Radio. To be honest, I think the goal is to make it so difficult to hunt that no one does, and at that point there is no reason anyone should have guns. I view them as the enemy but follow their nonsensical rules which change like the wind.
I'd love to see the banning of all ATVs on public land other than designated trails, and the morons just opened up practically the whole state. Some towns you don't see used car lots, one sees ATV lots! Just caught a guy driving across a creek with a side by side loaded to the gills with corn baiting for bear. He said he didn't know it was illegal to cross streams. I think it's the first page in the rule guide. Call the DNR and they'll yawn and say they'll send someone...next year...that is, if you even get a human...every call to them leads to an answering machine while they barbecue or make more coffee.
Wow. Used ATV lots? Reducing the population to near zero with over the counter doe permits? Every call to them leads to an answering machine while they barbecue or make more coffee?
Such anger. Sounds like someone got busted.
I'm in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan where baiting is sacred. Having said that, I'd like to see baiting ban statewide. The CWD issue may be the priority for the regulation but I'd like to see the ban if only for putting the hunt back into hunting. Right now all we're teaching the young generation is how to sit still and watch a pile of corn. How boring and non stimulating.
I hunt off 551. Family is from Bark River.
I've seen trucks loaded with bait but less and less it seems. Seems like less people hunting to be honest.
I admit, on the 200 acres the 3 of us hunt, we have 2 feeders. Been known to hunt near them too. 100 lbs of corn from Ray's lasts forever tho when they throw about 2-3 seconds twice a day. That's it. Even right after it throws - you can't really see the corn on the ground. It's not much. A doe and 2 fawns will clean it up in 10 minutes.
Gone are the days where I'd see 15-20 deer a night but that tapered off a long time ago. Now it's 5-10 a night.
Still, I like sitting in the stand, kill or not.
Teal, you see 5 to 10 deer on a nights sit? It is a rare evenings sit when I see that many deer . Two yrs ago I saw 6 and one was a buck. It was on public land. I have been looking in your area , as you may recall. Hard to justify $50,000 on a 40 to see a few extra dozen deer a year though. I was up there on April 26 an walked along the Sturgeon River and was thick with a lot of deer. I also did a circle around the Stonington peninsula and saw about 100 deer and a lot of turkeys. Seems like good enough hunting that I dont see a reason to bait at all. I saw some 40's for 50k but. . ... I need to retire too.
I wish I can find 40 acres for 50k down here. It's all about location I guess.
Should I keep a look out for some property down here????
How far north you have any interest in land?????
Tim
I wish I can find 40 acres for 50k down here. It's all about location I guess.
If you saw some of the locations of these forties you would know why they are 50K. I was up there north of Rapid River , Michigan ( Upper Michigan) on April 26 this year. There were areas where there was snow up to my knees . One forty was not too far back in the woods but the realtors up there are terrible. I was not told I needed to go down some other land owners trail and I will not take a chance trespassing cause there was not even a sign showing where the 40 was so I was not it was there at all. I can just see me running into a landowner asking what the F you doing here? AWE, Awe, I thought there was land for sale down this road. DUH moment. Another 200 ac. I wanted to look at for $89,000 I didn't get to cause when I pulled off the main road it was not plowed all winter and was stopped after 50 yds by a 12" snowdrift and I had 16 miles to go to get to the land. Oh well. BUT BUT, 200 ac. for 89K, most likely could get it down to 80K.
Teal, you see 5 to 10 deer on a nights sit? It is a rare evenings sit when I see that many deer . Two yrs ago I saw 6 and one was a buck. It was on public land. I have been looking in your area , as you may recall. Hard to justify $50,000 on a 40 to see a few extra dozen deer a year though. I was up there on April 26 an walked along the Sturgeon River and was thick with a lot of deer. I also did a circle around the Stonington peninsula and saw about 100 deer and a lot of turkeys. Seems like good enough hunting that I dont see a reason to bait at all. I saw some 40's for 50k but. . ... I need to retire too.
Yeah - 5 to 10 is the norm on one 80 that borders some good ag area/land.
The 120 we also hunt, more like 4 -6
In the 90's we only hunted the 120 and it was common to have 11+ a sit.
My best was 17 does and small bucks in front of me at the same time a few years back.
I emailed a guy with 30 ac. in the Stonington Peninsula a while ago . I dont think I can swing 85K for a 30 ac but it has a nice cabin on it.
![[Linked Image]](http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/kleingunther/media/photo_zpsxneyu0bw.jpg.html)