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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,832 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,832 Likes: 2 |
Not discrediting that one bit, but I'm involved in an area where we have 1,000's of acres to roam and each camp keeps tabs on sightings and success rates. We're seeing about a 15% success rate. Down about 7% since 2010. Way down since the 90's and WAY down for mature bucks being shot compared to that time. IMO, we need major public land habitat improvement in the EUP. Used to hunt the EUP in the early 90's. The winters of 95 & 96 damn near wiped em out. They lost something like 200,000 deer. Add in wolves and those 90s numbers have never come back making that area hard to hunt. Our camp of 11 saw a total of 4 deer in 10 days during the 97 season. We hunt dawn to dusk. Sort of demoralizing. We moved our camp below the bridge after that. I do wish the UP would go back to 1 buck - archery and rifle combined - and back off on the doe permits. The habitat can handle a significant increase in the herd. DRIPs could obviously increased as well. However, the "instant gratification hunters" won't stand for reduced opportunity so we can rebuild the herd and the DNR won't do it because it's less $$$ for the department.
"A Republic, if you can keep it." ~ B. Franklin
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 611
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 611 |
If I have to tell you, it would be a wast of time!! You wouldn't get anyway!! So you have nothing but bias against baiting. I do not bait for deer, just to be clear, but I do feed deer on my place, year around, with no stands near the feed and a camera on it. You will starve hunting this feed unless you hunt at night. What few come in the daytime are doe and young bucks. I also keep salt and mineral blocks nearby. CWD in Arkansas was most likely introduced by the game and fish when they bought Elk from Colorado to stock the Buffalo River area. They want to gloss this over and blame everything in the world except their part in the whole fiasco. If not for the Colorado "experts" that turned out a bunch of Elk with CWD to see what happened, there probably not be any problem in the US. In my common sense view, a pile of feed is a pile of feed, whether it be acorns or corn. Disease knows no difference. I have no idea how to get rid of it, once started, but common sense does not need to be ignored. miles It was mule deer, not elk. It was at Colorado State University 1967
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,132 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,132 Likes: 5 |
Reports that I recall reading said Elk, but I do not know for sure. I never saw an elk nor a mule deer until a few years ago and maybe the reporter had not either. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,001 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,001 Likes: 3 |
So you have nothing but bias against baiting. I do not bait for deer, just to be clear, but I do feed deer on my place, year around, with no stands near the feed and a camera on it. In my common sense view, a pile of feed is a pile of feed, whether it be acorns or corn. Disease knows no difference. I have no idea how to get rid of it, once started, but common sense does not need to be ignored. miles
"Common sense view" would illustrate that the disease patterns congregated feeding/watering areas, whether in nature (limited prevention during drought or low food years) or artificially, by every swinging dick with a feeder and a bait pile.....
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,132 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,132 Likes: 5 |
Not exactly, The experts still are not sure how it transmits. They know how in test tubes, but given the fact that is seems slow to spread, eating in the same place may not be the answer. Could be that the carcass of the dead ones is where is spreads. I know that when deer and cows for that matter are short on some minerals, they will gnaw bones. I forget what mineral, but you can get or used to be able to buy supplement for it. Certain areas of the county were bad for this deficiency. I am not saying that this is how it spreads, but it is possible. Seems to have gotten its start in Colorado in an old sheep station or some gathering area. Cross jump from scabies. Lots unknown. Lots of pressure to end baiting by certain groups before CWD came along, so everyone jumped on the band wagon. Nothing to me if the practice is banned, but a knee jerk by the people in charge is worthless. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,123 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,123 Likes: 1 |
I do not agree with everything the MI DNR does, but I much prefer them to do something
in an effort to make things better than do nothing.
There is a lot of speculation and unknowns with the CWD issue and it sure looks like the
future of it really sucks.
Between all the diseases we have seen recently, the coyotes, the property jumpers and
poachers, I am lucky to see a deer on our 80 acres of swamp and oaks.
I personally would like to see all baiting stopped country wide, but that is my preference.
I actually like to hunt for game.
My two cents.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,903
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,903 |
Here in SW MI I'm in the cwd area and the no baiting doesn't bother me. We had a feeder out and my wife would hunt over it. She's disabled and doesn't have the luxury of hunting like I do. Whatever, it will still work out.
I put our feeder away this spring when the board first brought it up cuz I knew it would be adopted and we hired a Forrester and it's being logged for deer management.
It's the kill em all attitude these state knuckle heads have that pisses me off.
We practice QDM and our neighbors to the east are the same. These new rules won't change our hunting style, now all around us is a whole different story.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I put out Trace Mineral blocks. They are in the majority salt with just a trace of minerals.
Normally,-- my deer go thru 2 or so 50 # blocks each Summer. They need the salt to help preserve moisture/water.
However - this year 2018, I have ONLY put out 1 and there is some of it left right now. I bought another and it's in storage.
Jerry A Follow Up - 8/22/2018 Here's a pic of my salt lick. That is the ONLY 50# block I have put out this year. - April IIRC ![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/9QLLnJe.jpg) I took another pic of a deer track up close BUT you can see in this pic there are deer TRACKS. My horses love and need the salt. I have seen deer at the salt in daylight Very few times. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065 |
A permanent salt block "lick" will change deer behavior over time. Does go to it and the fawns us the same trail that mommy used. That is why is is effective for hunting. A buck has to scent check the area. Have experimented with them and it was interesting to see how long deer would use a trail once a long-term block was pulled. Several generations...
Defend the Constitution
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
tomk
I had a salt lick on a deer lease for over 10 yrs. The deer had dug a hole 18" - 20" deep. It was in sight of a stand and I saw
ONLY 1 deer at it during the daylight.
Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 08/22/18.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,633 Likes: 72
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,633 Likes: 72 |
Bout 4 years back had some asswipe steal a Trophy Rock from one of my pits
A $15 chunk of mineral
Probably a jealous prick or gensing poacher
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 442
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 442 |
My experience with salt blocks is much different. Have seen and and have pics at all hours of the day and night. Granted, I put it in a spot that’s completely sheltered and deer feel comfortable there. And it’s been in the same spot for about 20 years....
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,721
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,721 |
I'm in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan where baiting is sacred. Having said that, I'd like to see baiting ban statewide. The CWD issue may be the priority for the regulation but I'd like to see the ban if only for putting the hunt back into hunting. Right now all we're teaching the young generation is how to sit still and watch a pile of corn. How boring and non stimulating.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,903
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,903 |
Baiting is just like everything else. Each person is different. Crossbow vs compound, etc.
Baiting hasn't made hunters lazy, society has. Sitting over corn doesn't guarantee a big buck but people are lazy and don't want to put in the effort to scout, etc.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,216 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,216 Likes: 1 |
[quote=stevevan1]I'm in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan where baiting is sacred. Having said that, I'd like to see baiting ban statewide. The CWD issue may be the priority for the regulation but I'd like to see the ban if only for putting the hunt back into hunting. Right now all we're teaching the young generation is how to sit still and watch a pile of corn. How boring and non stimulating.[/quote
I used to hunt the UP 40 years ago. Nobody baited then why now!! Because we have no scruples!!!! Is has got to easy and fast. While we are at it lets do away with the seconded buck tag!!!!
Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,216 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 14,216 Likes: 1 |
I'm in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan where baiting is sacred. Having said that, I'd like to see baiting ban statewide. The CWD issue may be the priority for the regulation but I'd like to see the ban if only for putting the hunt back into hunting. Right now all we're teaching the young generation is how to sit still and watch a pile of corn. How boring and non stimulating.[/quote
I used to hunt the UP 40 years ago. Nobody baited then why now!! Because we have no scruples!!!! Is has got to easy and fast. While we are at it lets do away with the seconded buck tag!!!![quote=Joel/AK]Here in SW MI I'm in the cwd area and the no baiting doesn't bother me. We had a feeder out and my wife would hunt over it. She's disabled and doesn't have the luxury of hunting like I do. Whatever, it will still work out.
I put our feeder away this spring when the board first brought it up cuz I knew it would be adopted and we hired a Forrester and it's being logged for deer management.
It's the kill em all attitude these state knuckle heads have that pisses me off.
We practice QDM and our neighbors to the east are the same. These new rules won't change our hunting style, now all around us is a whole different story.
Your nieghbors to the North kill any thing!!
Well we're Green and we're Gold, and we play better when it's cold. All us Cheese heads have our favorite superstar. We love Brett Favre.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,219
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,219 |
What about hunters who only have say 20 acres or less to hunt? And bait to attract or hold deer on their property? I'm not one of them by the way. Not long ago I was aware of six 55gal. feeders with huts or stands within 1/2 mile. Our county has been under a baiting/feeding restriction for the past 3years. This year we've been designated a CWD county.
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,721
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2017
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You answered your own question. Baiting alters natural movement patterns of deer.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,219
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,219 |
Actually I shouldn't have even included the word "attract". No need to attract them. Baiting situations I'm familiar with are set up on trails and used to delay deer as they pass through. Of course during the rut you could do away with the baiting if you wanted to.
My post was in reference to Joel's statement that "Sitting over corn doesn't guarantee a big buck but people are lazy and don't want to put in the effort to scout, etc." I'll add that it doesn't guarantee you'll kill any deer. I can remember when hunting deer over bait was never thought of. But over the years in many places large tracts of hunting property have become nonexistent. I remember when the buying or leasing of large tracts of land to hunt started. Between that and the selling of the huge tracts by the paper pulp company there wasn't much scouting to do. Next came the subdividing. People bought small tracts (no less than 2.5 acres could be sold) of say up to around 20 acres average. If they wanted to hunt there and if baiting since it was legal worked as a tactic they did. Now with the baiting/feeding ban that's out the window. Not sure what they'll do now.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,903
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,903 |
Baiting isn't always bad, I actually don't have a problem with it. We bait on our property (100 acres). I don't hunt near the feeder but my wife does. She is disabled. She can't climb a tree stand, or even shoot a gun. The recoil would kill her so she hunts over bait with a crossbow. Can't use bait this year, no big deal. I'll figure it out for her.
Sometimes little things like baiting keeps people hunting.
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