This is not a new subject although it is usually associated with what caliber & particular bullet is best for the job. My issue or curiosity is with the constant mention and therefore assumption that DRT is the main goal in taking big game, but lets just stick with deer. I have been a deer hunter for 46 years, both gun and bow. I have not killed a lot of deer but I have taken enough to have an educated opinion & a good idea of deer anatomy.
A CNS hit is pretty much a guaranteed DRT. But that is a small target & for the average hunter not preferred.
I hunt a small piece of private property and I prefer my deer do not cross the property lines after I shoot one but if I aim for the typical behind the shoulder, double lung shot I expect to have to track that deer. I have had many fall within sight after a good hit here, both gun & bow but only one that actually fell right there & that was with an arrow, go figure.
One of the most spectacular DRT's was with the 150 gn from a 30-30, broadside, tight to the shoulder @ 30 yards. The deer jumped almost straight up, landed on its side, made another 30 foot leap and crashed to the ground closer to me than when I shot. I could find no blood or even the entry & exit wound without careful examination.
I guess my point here is that unless you are willing to pass on anything less than a perfect shot opportunity your chances of "DRT" are unlikely. I have shot enough deer with enough different caliber/bullet combinations & arrows to know that although most die quickly they are likely to run & all deer are different.
The attached pic is graphic but should not be to anyone on here. This was from an average size doe taken with a .58 cal. MZ round ball at about 45 yds. A little hard to see in the pic but the heart was severely damaged and the ball also struck both lungs and the edge of the liver before it exited. The deer still ran close to 50 yards before falling. I would call this pretty good performance for any bullet and an almost ideal hit.
Am I being to critical or reading to much into it but I think DRT while really awesome is over rated and un-realistic for the average deer hunter ?

I have killed lots of deer over the years, the first one was in 1954. I was eleven years old. I shot it with a 30.30 Winchester 94. It was not DRT. but close because I broke its back with the first shot. Since then I've learned some things about killing deer(remember we are not talking about pachyderms here) if putting deer down quickly is the goal( it should be) then put a fast expanding, high-velocity bullet through the chest/heart lungs/shoulder area you'll have little tracking to do. My definition of high-velocity is anything over about 2800-2900 fps at the muzzle. The headstamp makes very little difference.

Jim, yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon, for sure.

Never had one myself, in all my years of hunting, but never tried for one either.

Hunting in Boreal forest, mix of Public/Private.

Always double lung, behind the shoulder, at worst, shoot for the appropriate exit.

Only ever had to track one further than 50 yards, & that was a bad shot, on my son's part. Too far back, & got the angle wrong to boot.

Ended up a liver shot, that we pushed out of it's first bed. Backed out for 2 hours & found her 200 yards away.

For what it's worth (most common):
- .243, 95gr SST via Hornady Superformance
- 25-06, 117gr SST via same or 117gr Federal Fusion
- 7mm-08, 120gr TTSX via Barnes Vor-tx
- .308, 150gr Federal Fusion

To each their own.

I shot a good sized doe at about 75 yards this year. I watched it run about 100 yards before it ducked into the timber, and the way it was moving I wondered if it missed it somehow. It ran about 400 yards before dropping and every vital organ was liquified. Not really even any chucks left inside.

+1 to the OP. I've been hunting deer since the early 80s. I get to see the innard of about a half-dozen deer each year. I'd say a good portion 30-40% are DRT, but the rest run. It may not be all that far. Most of mine that don't drop where they're shot can be seen by standing at the impact site. However, there are the flyers. I had one doe this past season that ran about 250 yards with both lungs and the heart hit.

I retired my 35 Whelen after a decade of service. It was not producing a higher percentage of DRT's for all the extra cost and shoulder punishment. I'm not knocking the round or the Rem 7600 that it's fired from. It just wasn't better than 30-06

I have still not produced a solid DRT from my 25-06 despite several attempts.

The highest percentage of DRT's at our camp come from .308 165 grain Hornady IL's , followed by 150 grain Remmie SPCL's. However, that has more to do with the sheer volume of what we shoot.

One thing I do find interesting is the number of deer that die right at the fence. Our camp is on an abandoned far that used to have beef cattle on it. There are stretches of 3-strand barbed wire all over the place. Every pasture is ringed with it. A fair percentage of deer that run after shot make it to the nearest fence, but that's it. I've seen them crash into the fence, somersault over the fence, collapse in mid jump or some other variation. Two of my largest bucks got their racks caught in the fence while jumping and died all tangled up.

I think it's overrated myself. I like a right behind the shoulder double lung shot.

Every deer I've shot, with the exception of one, that was shot right behind the should and double lunged ran like a bat for about 35-40 yards and collapsed. If you are quiet you actually hear them drop as they crash though the brush. And this being, regardless of what they were hit with, shotgun slug, muzzle loader bullet, rifle bullet or arrow. Right behind the shoulder breaking a rib going in and going out at most makes for no wasted meat also.

The one exception was a buck I doubled lunged with an arrow at 10 yards. The arrow went right through him, and he did an about face like he got stuck in the ass with a thorn and it surprised him. After a second or 2 he attempted to sneak away and took 3 steps and fell over right in front of me.

The other thing that is nice about them running that short distance before dropping is that they bleed out thoroughly which makes for a much less messy butcher job. My son hit one a little to far back years ago with an arrow and we recovered it the following morning. It didn't bleed out and when butchering the quarters on the counter I spent more time wiping up blood than cutting steaks.

Over the years I got to where I pretty much always went for the CNS high shoulder shot first if at all possible regardless caliber used. I generally always hunted in primarily thick, overgrown woods on small privately owned acreages.

As always, YMMV.

I’m badly color blind so it matters for me when hunting alone. Learned early that velocity makes a difference and hence primarily hunt with faster rounds. Also learned that a shoulder shot was nearly a sure thing. For me, the loss of a few pounds of meat is a small price to pay. Just my .02.

I agree. I used to shoot for heart / lung area. Too many dead runs down a steep hill or into heavy bush. I hunt alone most of the time as well.

I've been killing deer for 60 years and haven't slowed down as i get older. I still kill four a year.

DRT is always good! Not having to go find them beats having to find them and drag them out of some nasty hole every time. Putting them on the ground when when it's 1/2 hour past sunset and Bambi is 300 yards out on a cut hay field beat hell out of trying to find where Bambi was standing so you can start looking for blood that may or may not be there. Shoot enough deer and you will find that some of them don't do what they're supposed to. Double lung them and generally they are down and dead inside 60 yards. But...I've seen them make it over a mile leeding heavily enough that. Ould i run i could have followed that fast. Some of them will not bleed and you do not get a say in which ones do or do not.

Out of all those deer i have only lost two. One was a broadside double lung, the otherspun into me at the shot winch to went in behind the shoulder and exited just ahead of the off side ham. The first bled very well but he just kept on moving and I am pretgy certain made it o to a highway where he was picked up. The second, I am sure died somewher within 1/4 mile, but he only left 3 drops of blood close to where he was shot.

DRT is everything it's made out to be with a bag of chips thrown in for free.

The importance of DRT varies with local conditions. May be “over rated “ where you hunt. Not for me

Killed more than my share of deer,and I'm big fan of dead right there, not dead right over there, deer are not hard to kill if you don't have a kill shot don't shoot. Rio7

Looking for hit deer is over rated; Id rather avoid it. I've had nicely lung hit deer that died in a reasonable distance, that were very difficult to find even with snow on the ground. That's more suspense than I need.

Why is DRT overrated?
It sure eliminates tracking wounded game.
I always try for DRT!

I hunt mostly open country with deep wooded canyons so since I just turned 70 packing venison out is a bag drag and only for younger men..

High shoulder shots usually do exactly what I require and stop them in their tracks 99% of the time.

DRT is NOT overrated in my book......

I prefer for them to drop right where I shot them, but plenty of sign is nice, too.

I prefer it, i'll gladly donate a couple handfuls of fajita meat, I punch shoulders.

Damn, Compound Bow?

I'm literal, so I take DRT to mean exactly that.
Yep, it's good...real good.
But dead inside 50 or so yards, with a bloody trail, is as good.
100 yards +, no blood, I ain't happy.


Seriously, I hunt from the ground, on my feet, no bait. Often offhand shots, moving game.
I just ain't good enough to make the CNS shots under those conditions. And I'm not going to lie about it.
Ribs are my target, and from 44mag to 300 mag, DRT sometimes happens, frequently not.
Inside 50? Usually.

vic now that is a blood trail!

.308, 165 grain at about 15 yards. The deer that owns the blood trail, along with another, were coming towards me. About 15 seconds after it started, it was over.

Second one was a DRT, neck shot. I stopped him with a "mrrrp", he had his rear pointed at me, head up.

Down he went.....

I wouldn’t say it’s overrated but I’m not disappointed if it doesn’t happen. For a long time it was what happened every time I shot a deer. Things have evened out to about 50/50 over the years.

Dang, 10-4 Vic, I see that buck laying in the leaves at the end of that blood trail, good shooting and Congrats!

Amen brother.

If it's not drt in my part of the country, it can mean a lost deer. I smash shoulders too....

I admit that I’ve not killed as many deer as most of you and have taken way more elk than deer. What I can say is that I have had exactly one deer run and not recovered until the next day. Most have dropped DRT as have most all the elk I have taken. I guess if you use enough gun, the right bullet, and good shot placement; tracking is not an issue. DRT is not overrated when you are nearly 70!

Thank you, Sir!

I have been hunting whitetails for 57 yrs. and have only had three DRT, a doe and two bucks. Two were taken with 12ga. shotgun slugs, the third with a .44 Magnum 240gr.. One of the slug kills was hit just below the spine as was the .44 Mag. buck, the other buck took a 12ga. slug to the chest in a frontal shot. All the other deer were taken with high power rifles and were lung shot while standing broadside, they ran 30-60yds. some left good blood trails and others not so much. This past season's buck was a 100yd. raking shot that entered just ahead of the last two ribs and traversed the chest stopping just under the hide on the opposite side. He ran 40yds, the recovered bullet a Hornady 200gr. RN out of my .35 Whelen retained 66% of its original weight and was perfectly mushroomed. The lungs looked as though they had been put in a blender, adrenaline was all that enabled that buck to run cause his heart and lungs had been destroyed. While the hydrostaic shock was so devastating it had blown a portion of lung out the entry wound there was little blood trail.

It appears people have different definitions or interpretations of what the meaning of DRT is. To quote the OP...….

"One of the most spectacular DRT's was with the 150 gn from a 30-30, broadside, tight to the shoulder @ 30 yards. The deer jumped almost straight up, landed on its side, made another 30 foot leap and crashed to the ground closer to me than when I shot".

I wouldn't consider the OP's example as a DRT as much as it's an example of dying in sight. A DRT in my mind is the animal drops instantly, legs and body are "frozen", it doesn't take a step or get up and run or try to run and is dead almost immediately. In my 48 years of hunting big game a CNS shot most often causes a DRT. I personally do not think it's over rated at all. My tracking and long dragging days are long past.

Overrated may not have been the best word to use here and many good points were made by all. RIO7 does as well but should we define DRT as a "kill shot"? It is up to all of us to define what is and isn't an ethical kill shot. If you are able to hit the CNS every time and choose to pass on any other shot then I am all for it. How & where you hunt as pointed out here is also a factor. Still hunting thick cedar swamp etc. usually only provides one shot opportunity and the behind the shoulder aiming point allows the most room for error. Are there any bow hunters that only take DRT certain shots?

I would not tell a first time young hunter that they should only take a DRT shot, I have taught & shown them where and how to aim to produce "dead right over there" every time & how to find their deer. The (heart/lung shot) provides the biggest target while still making a quick clean kill. Vic's photo shows that, DROT & DRT are both very much acceptable.

I think the DRT is something we should strive for every time we pull the trigger on an animal and limit ourselves to the shot that will achieve that. I know it doesn't always happen, but in a perfect world...

I go for the heart and lung shot. I prefer the animal to do some bleeding out as they
run 50 yards or so. It is my conjecture that this allows for less blood in the muscles and
better eating. If I can't find an animal thus shot, I should not be hunting.
I do not like blown up shoulders or necks, but blown up ribs are fine.
Use reliable bullets at proper velocities.

Im in the depends where you hunt camp. Also the weather.

I just don't get all that worked up if it doesn't happen. There have been enough deviations and variations in my experience, that I know that the whole thing is too complex for it to be predictable.

I've seen:

1) A 60 lb doe take 3 rounds of 30-30 to the chest at 10 yards and walk away.
2) A 2.5 yr old buck take a round of 30-06 to the chest and go back to eating.
3) A 205 lb buck take 3 rounds of 35 Whelen to the chest and continue to stand
4) A 1.5 yr old buck take a round of 30-06 from a Garand and remain unfazed. The second round made him explode, emptying his innards on the ground. He ran 60 yards before he got tripped up with his intestines wrapped around his hind legs.

These were all good shots with reputable soft point hunting ammo, connecting with both lungs and the heart. DRT is great. It's just not something I can trust to happen. Early on in my career, I'd try and change something after every non-DRT event. I'd change bullet, change powder, even change rifle. I finally realized I was chasing a phantom. DRT is good, DRT can and does happen. It just doesn't HAVE to happen for it to be a successful hunt.

Mind you, this comes from a guy who has done everything conceivably possible to minimize deviations and produce a no-muss/no-fuss freezer filler. I usually fill my last tag every year from a ground blind, shooting off a bag at a doe that is standing within 10 yards of every other doe I've taken out of that field in the last decade. My goal is to drop the doe in the exact spot where it is easiest to roll up the truck. Most of the time it's DRT, but despite all the standardization, it just doesn't always happen.

For DRT shots,I like to shoot tight against the shoulder,just a tad above the mid point of the body.I have found it will deliver shock to the spine and sometimes it will also rupture the large thoracic artery that lies just below the spine.This gives you a double whammy and will drop them on the spot with shock to the CNS and extreme loss of BP.One thing I also noticed,though it is not necessary because the deer is down on the spot,I get a large amount of blood and organ material spray from where the animal stood,to 20-30ft beyond the exit side of the deer.Don't know,maybe it's because it's right below the bony spine,the energy wants to rise and really cannot,so it really blows the damaged organ material out the exit hole. I've shot deer just a little lower and it kills too,but they will usually run.I think what happens is when the bullet enters the chest cavity,the shock not only spreads,but it also tends to want to rise. I think the lungs being spongy, absorb the shock and it doesn't really get to the spine.I've had them run a 100yds and not leave a noticeable blood sign and I don't like that.Shot position of the animal is important too.Broadside is good,but angle shots are the ones you need to think about.Not only do you aim for the entrance,but plan your exit too.For me,quartering away is much more preferred an quartering towards me. These pictures show where I like to shoot them.

Yes I've seen that too but it doesn't always happen OR I just haven't noticed it all the time.
Here's an example. I had turned this buck 180* for the pic. but if you look close OR enlarge, you'll see a RED streak from the R hind leg.
That's where the bullet BLEW blood from the exit side.



Incidentally that shot was Hi behind the L shoulder and shattered the spine. DRT = Drop Right There.


Before 2012 I hunted deer leases mostly and had plenty of room IF deer ran and a lot of the time they did.
Since 2012 I have been hunting a small piece of property, 70 acres, and too often I'm not far from a fence/property line. I don't have permission to hunt the surrounding property so.......

D R T is very important to me.

Fellows, I don't mean to brag, since 2012 I have killed multiple deer each year on this property and I've taken pix of nearly all of them.
There are TOO many pix to post but you can see the deer laying and blood on the ground FROM the shot.
A few examples:


All I did for this pic was to PROP his head against the barrel. The blood -- under his head.




This pic is Self Explanatory. The neck is a BIG target.





This doe hit the ground the blood splattered or spattered. I took the pic before I touched the deer and the leaves are not disturbed.

I have one more pic, if it doesn't post I'll follow up in another post immediately.




Since 2012 this is the ONLY deer to take ANY steps. She was actually 1/4ing toward me. I shot the junction of shoulder/chest and she took 1 or 2 stumbling steps and turned BUTT over Head, 180* somersault. Notice the blood on the grass/weeds.

I like, PREFER, CNS ! DRT can be very important.

Jerry

I would like them to drop 'right where they were standing". but that is not the rule, it is the exception. When they run, I prefer that they run towards the truck! I prefer that to dropping where they stood! Just say'in!

Nothing seems to work every time. I shot this buck dead center in the chest as he was facing me with a 300 WBY mag. He took off running toward me and over an irrigation ditch bank, across the ditch and into the timber before he fell. Both front shoulders were destroyed, I don't know how he did it, I only know that he did...

A follow up to my earlier post.

If you learn the anatomy of the CNS, you won't lose MUCH meat. 2 examples.



A diff buck:







Yes neck shots work FROM the BACK of the neck.
This guy was walking straight away from me and he was @ 175 yds---- I use Shooting Sticks---- DRT
Bulged his eyeballs.





Jerry

I'll take DRT every time. I typically shoot for CNS or take out both shoulders. Lots of my hunting is in steep country and wounded deer just about always run downhill making recovery difficult.
The day before leaving on my first safari I took an 80lb buck with my 375 H&H. Since they always want you to do heart shots in Africa, I decided to do that with this little buck.He ran down into a canyon about 150 yards leaving a blood trail that Stevie Wonder could have followed. Dragging him out was no fun. DRT is AOK.

Hey Guys !!

What Happened ? Someone posted 2 (two) videos of CNS shots.
1 on a head shot of a feral hog.
1 on a hi shoulder of a WT.

I watched both of them and they were GOOD. I didn't catch the poster's name....... NOW the whole post is gone ? ? ?

What Happened ?

Jerry

For those of you that want DRT results, why hasn't anyone mentioned head shots? Yes it's a smaller target, but if you hit em in the head, I will bet nearly everything I have they will DRT. Opening day of doe season, we have a contest to see who can hit closest to the eye. Makes a mess, but, DRT and no meat loss.

Re: blood trails.

Whether you shoot them with an arrow or a rifle, there are no guarantees whatsoever that you will get a blood trail, whether it will last as long as the deer does or not. Out of the last 8 deer, one left zero blood trail until it tipped over. Not so much as a single drop. It made it maybe 50 yards and then at tip over it looked like a slaughter house. Everything within 10 feet was red. One did an excellent job of putting blood on the ground for 300 yards, at which time he ran out of blood and managed another 100 yards. One bled good for 250 yards and then quit for 200. She then bled enough to follow to where she tipped over 300 yards further. One bled very heavily for 300 yards to the point it was stopping every six feet and putting 1/2 cup of blood on each side. But he made it another 100 without further bleeding. All of those were hit with large 4 blade mech heads and double lunged but for one.

I shot one fawn through the bottom inch of both scapulae which turned both lungs into red soup but for a fist size chunk and shredded the top 2/3 of the heart. That damn deer bled for 3 jumps and then not another drop. That deer should by all rights have been DRT, but it departed like i never touched it.

I have had 3 DRT deer with an arrow. I will be damned if I could say why they didn't run, but the they went nowhere. Kind of like the deer just figured I been shot and now I am going to be dinner, and then laid down dead

I guess having seen so many die with such widely varied results after the shot is why I don't have even the slightest bias toward any caliber, mech or fixed heads, bow or rifle.

I will say though that I am just about certain that all of the deer I have killed with an arrow I would have clipped the brain stem had I been using a rifle. Roughly 1/3 of the deer I have killed with a rifle were either head shots or brain stem shots. All but one of them were very close, archery range or closer.

I've passed shots on deer because I wasn't 100% confident I could drop the deer immediately where it stood. Some of the country I hunt is pretty high up and if a deer runs off you might not recover it. I want it to die where it stands.

30 caliber 180 gn Grand Slams @ 3100 fps have dropped every deer I have shot, they don't even twitch. I have killed several with them. Never had one do anything but go straight to the ground.
I hunt with some other rifles and don't have the same result.
I like to shoot and see the deer drop dead. 2 of my stands are close to a boundary fence.

I don’t particularly care whether one drops. With a bow, I really like to be able to watch it go down even though that’s often not possible, but with a gun I’ve never had a super long blood trail. In fact, if I know I had a good shot, even if I have a pretty good idea where the deer is laying, I enjoy following the trail. IMO makes walking up on the deer even more exciting. Only ever had a few drop instantly. One was an accidental spine shot with my bow. One was a shoulder shot with a 270, not much of a surprise. The 3rd was an accident. I had already put one in the lungs, but the deer was hauling a$$ down into a creek bottom. Would’ve been hell to find and drag out, and there was a possibility of it crossing the property line. I went for a follow up and dropped it. Figured I hit shoulder or neck, but once I walked up to it I realized I hit it in the head.

The year after I dropped the deer with my 270, I sold that gun to my brother. He was using 130 gr ballistic silver tips and shot his first deer. It ran 30-40 yards but I don’t know how. Somehow that bullet ripped open the chest cavity to where you could see the heart and both lungs. No idea how that deer wasn’t “DRT”. Would post a picture if I could.

It's been my experience that a deer shot anywhere other than it's CNS is capable of running until it's blood pressure drops low enough to cause it to weaken and keel over.

Again, YMMV.

Head shots are seldom even attempted, when they go bad, they go horribly bad.
They haven't for me, thank goodness, but I have seen it.
Even bailed out of the car, stood in the road, and finished a doe running away with its jaw swinging. My best shot ever, just because of the circumstrances.

Szchit nevers go wrong – until it does.
I've had to burn a buck tag twice in my life (on deer I wouldn't normally shoot) because some yahoo-never-misses sniper shot the jaw off a deer.

Given Murphy's propensity, and the fact that I'm not at war with the animals, head shots are a hard pass for me.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ that is the reason I stopped doing head shots. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just not my cup of tea.


Jerry

shrap, I'm not being mean spirited. I don't understand how both shoulders were destroyed when the buck was facing you. ?




incidentally, >>> there are ONLY front - shoulders!


Jerry

Several years back a local kid shot a little fork horn in the head with a .44 magnum that was eating acorns close beneath the tree he was hunting from. He climbed down out of the tree and as he was admiring it's rack the deer came to and jerked loose from his grasp and ran off. Apparently his head shot had only knocked the deer unconscious.

I was hunting on an adjoining property several hundred away and killed it with a neck shot as it walked past beneath my tree stand. As I was checking the deer out I noticed the fresh head wound. The kid's bullet entered right at the base at the back of the deer's skull, completely missing the brain and exited out an eye socket taking the eyeball out on that side.

At least 10 Deer shot in the shoulders or chest with a Barnes. Add it up and they all may have covered 20 yards total. I’m due, but it hasen’t happened yet.

I understand head shots aren't everyone's cup of tea considering they can look quite gruesome. Yes, we have had an instance where there was a misplaced head shot. Doe DRT, and as we walked over a minute later, she stood up, sans jaw, where we finished her. I look at it as a successful head shot puts down an animal with zero suffering, but like anything in hunting, nothing is a sure bet.

One of the dumber things I've heard.

I'd switch broadheads.

Agree.

Good enough for Does, then why not Bucks?

Answer: We don’t GAS about Does.

Addition: The number of people here who get their rocks off in showing mangled game never ceases to amaze me. Yet those who take a real trophy animal do their best to picture it in the best presentation as possible.

Do you understand the physics of splitting the atom and the resulting damage caused in a nuclear explosion?

Probably not, but that doesn't stop it from happening. Both shoulders were destroyed, bone and structure. I have seen many deer killed with all types of bullets and calibers. This isn't just a "hey what's going on here" happening...

I’ve shot a lot of medium and big fur. Distance and size of the animal has usually been a factor in how fast the game animal hits dirt.

Many collapsed on the shot. Some stood stunned and unable to take a step, just toppling over.

And others have bolted for 50-60 yards, falling dead in mid run...

A few months back a cow elk I smacked with a good first shot with a 7/08 right behind the shoulder just above her heart went a couple yards and stood there sick until I sent a second shot into her just above where the first shot hit to finish her.

My uneducated guess from actually hunting and shooting schit is placement and energy from what your shooting will usually determine DRT or a possible rodeo to collect a big game animal. 😎

Only animal I ever headshot was a coyote, lying in a depression, that's all I could get glass on, on deer/elk etc, yes, I'm going to kill them for food and the sport of hunting, just not going to ass rape them first, I respect and thank them for their lives, it sustains myself, and families lives through good nutrition.

+1 Scott...I busted the back on a bull many years ago down deep into a canyon. I watched the bull to make sure it was done before I started assembling my hauler gear to head down to take it out...The bull suddenly puts it head up looking around. Dang bull went from lying dead to head up. Not wanting to send another round into good meat, I took a head shot and the elk head and neck flopped over...Done!

It took me over an hour to get down and onto the bull...The poor bull was still alive trying to get up missing it’s lower jaw. I had my pistol and took care of it immediately. This bull made my future decisions to never take another head shot.. I will lose some meat before I would have my animal suffer. 😎

Another friend/coworker/neighbor shot at a buck with a 30/06 aiming at it's head and knocked it down but when he got up to were it was laying apparently lifeless he saw that his bullet had only blew it's bottom jaw off. He said he poked it in it's eye with his rifle barrel a few times with no reaction whatsoever so he figured it was dead but as he was field dressing it and grabbed a hold of it's heart to cut it free it was still beating.

Thanks shrap.

Even tho I’ve shot/killed deer w/7 mags, 300 mags, & 8 mmRM, I never shot a deer
“straight on” with any of them—-so I haven’t seen that result.

Thnx for UR response.

BTW, I had to point out “front” shoulders.

Jerry

DRT ... I think the value varies with the terrain you hunt. It might not matter to a flat-land whitetail hunter unless they're hunting close to the boundary of property they don't have permission to enter. For a sheep or goat hunter, even one good lunge might be off a 1000 foot drop leading to an unrecoverable animal.

Take the shot you need to make under the conditions, and if you don't have the skills to make that shot, don't shoot.

Tom

Jerry if a buck is quartering towards you, couldn’t the shoulder nearer to you be referred to as the front shoulder??

On-side front shoulder - They are both still shoulders.

Although, I assume Jerry was actually meaning that deer do not have rear shoulders !

I 'suppose'............ to a TWISTED Texas mind !

Jerry

DING ! DING ! DING !

We have a Winner.


Jerry

Yep

“TWISTED Texas mind”.....some folks would consider that redundant

Mo Greening um works every time

Never moved except to lay out flat.

One of my favs. 330yards 300 OTM at 2890.




It did role slightly down hill.

This one was DRT when he came back down to earth...

I shout them in the front shoulders, they don’t go far!

I always thought that my archery shot deer tasted better than my rifle shot deer because the broadhead killed by bleeding the animal more thoroughly. Archery shot deer always ran and while I've had some DRT rifle kills, those always involved the cns or at least one shoulder. Thinking back on my packing house days, those animals were killed by cutting the major neck arteries and bleeding them after they were stunned with a pneumatic knocker and hanging upside down from a rail. Using that as a guide to better tasting meat, I don't mind if my deer run a little ways, but I want a big leaky exit wound to help find them.

Exactly !

+1

& I always figured, blood trailing was one of the most exciting & important skills of hunting !



YMMV

I am listening. Like i said above, I do not have the slightest allegiance to caliber, mech or fixed heads,bow or rifle.

You must have one hell of a voice!

I used to have issues with blood trails from a wide array of broadheads, they left blood trails some better than others and some downright miserable.
That is until my friends started using rage broadheads.
They were using the standard ones and me being me wanted to be slightly different went with the Rage Hypodermics.
All I can say is wow! The commercials are right..it’s a red carpet of blood.
I’m sold on em.

3 out of four the Rages worked good. All of them though, the blood ne er started much before 30-40 yards. The 4 blade heads, the blood started at 5-10 yards and they bled as well. I did get 1 DRT with a Rage. None with the Hypo. 3 blade fixed were no better and no worse. The 4 blade mechs have thus far been the best. The first 4 i shot with Rages were all through the heart. 1 Drt, 1about 60 yards 1 about a ,ittle over 100 yards and one made it just a litte over 200 yards.. once they started to bleed, they all bled admirably. But...out of two dozen only one deer did not bleed quite well, that one wzs the one that spun toward me..
I personally find it hard to fault a head for a deer that bleeds well until it runs out of blood, nor one which gives me enough blood to follow at a dead run for a mile.

One deer i cannot begin to explain. Facing me dead on. I pot the arrow in just below her throat. I saw it reemerge from under her rump. I found two distinct isolate patches of hair a couple feet apart right where I expected them. When I recovered her I could find no blood in the chest or abdomen. No exit hole. No evidence the arrow ever entered her chest.

...is DRT the same as a 'Bang-Flop'...or 'Bang-Flop and Roll'..etc....?..

something can be DRT but still carry on in momentum like nose diving into the ground , ..right?

Well if you 'shout' them in the REAR shoulders, you'd get DRT !

Jerry

I find this pic to be distasteful -> that's as P C as I can state it!! Why would WE give the anti's any ammunition to shoot us with ?
I agree with Battue !




Jerry

yuck, I agree that is a poor pic to post. and the poster is proud of what exactly?


I shoot 168 VLD's from a 308 and punched behind the shoulder often yields a DRT or bangflop. I try to put it midway between the brisket and top of the back. the majority of critters flop over when I do this, no meat loss to speak of. maybe it was jwall who posted the pic of the inside and the nick out of the backbone, I often see this with mine as well. I firmly believe equal credit goes to the load I'm using and proper shot placement. Of the last 20 or so big game animals we've taken with it I've only seen 1 go any distance and that was my wife's mule deer in 2017, she hit it in the ribs and demolished both lungs. it ran 100 yards and still had his head up 15 minutes after the shot. I have no idea how it was possible, but was an easy recovery.



Youngsters can even do it

Love the big smiles on the faces on the young hunters when they connect with furs...Great picture! 😎

If its games you are interested in, may I suggest golf or maybe bowling,anyone that has been hunting very long has seen the results of idiots trying to head shoot deer, and results are often a deer staggering around with their jaws missing

coulda been a preacher! ; ]

Ditto....seen that myself. I avoid head shots like the plague unless it's all I have, I have a solid rest and everything "feels" right.






I can see the allure to DRT in many circumstances, but to be honest, blood trailing and especially the anticipation of whether or not the critter is dead around the next tree is one of my favorite parts of hunting. I really enjoy following a good blood trail on an animal I know was hit well, though they're usually very short trails when the shot was where it was supposed to be.

I believe head shots are unethical. There is very little margin for error and it is definitely NOT a "hit or miss" situation!

Far too many times do you hear of someone being off with their shot, only to blow a poor deer's jaw off.

Ethical shots are to the larger kill areas of animals...heart/lung shots, shoulder shots, behind the shoulder etc.

Too many "so called" hunters believe they are showing off by shooting animals in the head. They are not impressing anyone.

Dead right there means shoot them through the shoulders, otherwise, expect running deer.

I surely do appreciate an instant, or near-instant kill. Bang. "There's the deer."

My son and I got real used to that happening. Not always, but usually. He had the funniest look on his face a few years back when he chest shot a young whitetail buck at about 30 feet, with his 30-06 and a 165 gr Nosler Partition. The buck showed no indication of a hit and simply ran. He was shocked and thought he'd missed somehow.

Nope - I smiled - said "wait" and then we went and followed a very good blood trail maybe 25 yards in the snow. And had to pull the very dead buck out of an icy creek. Yee haw! That's one of the few that didn't drop instantly, or nearly instantly.

Couple of years back, I made a poor hit on a big muley with my 25-06. He stopped, then lay down, but kept his head up. I couldn't get another shot. Eventually he got to his feet and left! Did some tracking on that one. I'd just hit him too far back. Damn. Hate that. Good buck I'd hunted for three days. Glad to have found him!

I used to think that really fast expanding bullets and higher velocities resulted in more instant kills, but I'm not so sure anymore. Have seen the instant & near-instant death from low-velocity 50 cal soft-lead bullet from my traditional muzzle loader as well as from fast-stepping cartridges like the 6mm Rem & 25-06, anymore... I dunno.

Regards, Guy

We call that a "Stevie Wonder blood trail" around here. Even Stevie Wonder could follow it.

Will definitely lose some meat with the shoulder shots, which I do, but its better than losing a whole deer. Its also nice to drive right up to them. I have to be careful with my ballistic tip loads in my 270 and 708, a behind the shoulder soft tissue shot is not optimal and has made for some tracking jobs I wish I would not have had. I deer can cover a lot of ground before it expires when there is no blood trial you better have a good idea of where it went or a good dog around. I shot a doe straight on a couple years ago, heart was destroyed, dang thing flipped and hit the ground hard, still to get up and run 50 yards, they are tough animals.

I'm glad to not see any mentions of neck shots in this thread. If you have a good rest and the confidence to pull them off, go for it. I just think there are too many factors, being in a tree, weather, rest, a target capable of moving, that make neck shots not optimal...and then you see the newbies come across neck shot threads and think they should try it. I killed a doe one opening day afternoon that had been neck shot I'm guessing earlier than morning. No reason for that mess.

SHEESH ! !

Jerry

2016


This pic is Self Explanatory. The neck is a BIG target.

Jerry



2017

Yes neck shots work FROM the BACK of the neck.
This guy was walking straight away from me and he was @ 175 yds---- I use Shooting Sticks---- DRT
Bulged his eyeballs.



Jerry

Others use Neck Shots too.

TOTAL BLOOD TRAIL

This buck - 194 yds ---> ---> 2011




From this stand - my right foot was touching the buck for the pic.

DRT beats the holy hell out of tracking.

The majority of time in my deer hunting history I have 'blood trailed' deer. I don't mind it 'where' and 'when' you have the room and time to do so.

It was ONLY after acquiring confidence in MY shooting AND in the gun, that I attempted and continued CNS shots. NOW I look for the CNS shot FIRST. It's so calming and comforting to shoot and SEE the deer where it was standing.

I agree with you.


Jerry

My boys and I have shot dozens of white tails in the neck for years with a 222. They literally drop in their tracks. Usually from 50 to 150 yds. Tough to beat that.

I like DRT, but am cool w DOT,
Usually shoot front shoulders, but will take neck shots.

Only critters I shoot in the head are yotes or chucks, and even then really prefer not to.

Uglying up a critter doesn't sit well with me.
But I'm the same guy that sees deer stacked like wood at a processor/check in and thinks it a bit disrespectful.

Don't care what others do, that stuff just aint the way I do it.

Bulged eyeballs............hell I won't even shoot squirrels in the head.

I had eye surgery as a kid so maybe I'm a bit squeamish LOL.

Here we go again.






Why not REAR shoulders?




Jerry

It depends on what side of the ridge the deer is facing. If it's going towards the road, not a problem. Let it run and hopefully roll as close to an easy pickup as possible. When it's looking to run the other way, blow up both shoulders. Dragging one up the ridge is filthy bad.