I cant find where you've ever tested the old style Barnes 250gr heavy jacket bullets in the 348 Winchester, question is, I looked over my loaded rounds today, I have 69 left loaded to an easy on the old 1937 year model steel of 2258 fps.
I want to go with the Woodleigh 250gr Weldcores at the same velocitiy, is that the best route, or have you found the old Barnes 250 to be a better bullet? should I look for more of those?
I thought today how fun it'd be to hunt the great bears of Alaska with this rifle, deer and pigs are certainly on the menu, and maybe an elk in the timber.
Howdy Gunner, haven't seen him post for a while, but from what I remember from his videos, the Barnes (of which I too have a bunch) apparently lost their cores in many of his tests. I believe he preferred the Woodleigh, but he really likes the 200gr Hornady, which is what he took his moose with . One shot kill, too. jorge
Howdy Gunner, haven't seen him post for a while, but from what I remember from his videos, the Barnes (of which I too have a bunch) apparently lost their cores in many of his tests. I believe he preferred the Woodleigh, but he really likes the 200gr Hornady, which is what he took his moose with . One shot kill, too. jorge
Hello Jorge, EdM and Vern, thanks for all the help and info, all I can say is damn the technology, was out with a bud of mine this morning, he has one of those fancy smart phones, he gave me a number to a guy up at Alaska Bullet Works, the guy called me back and said he'd send me some bullets if I'd send him a check when they arrived.
I now have four boxes of ABW 348 cal. 250gr bullets on the way. the nice old Gent on the phone said they have been used to handily kill all Alaskan game for more than 35 years, they'll shoot through anything up there, he also stated he has lots of elk moose and black bear hunter customers in the Pacific Northwest and Canada that effectively harvest all manner of large heavy game.
I'll give these a good go, betting I wont be disappointed, I really appreciate ABW's trust as well.
Users of the Model 71 will be happy with the 250 gr AK Bullet Works bullets. They flat out are great bullets. The North Fork are a good weight and excellent constructed bullet. My recent hunting for Alaska moose used a M-71 in Ackley Imp which is darn close to the 35 Whelen in velocity and energy. Using a 270 gr Hawk FP bullet, the rifle flattened a 7ft at the shoulder Wein Lake AK bull moose. Took us 6 hours to skin, gut and transport this animal. One shot kill through the neck.
Bullets like Swift, Woodleigh, AK BW, and Hawk carry the .348 into almost a different caliber's results in killing power on large animals. The Hornady bullet-at 200 grs-is still a better bullet than what was available in the 1940s-1950s .
If anyone plans to use the Model 71 on aggressive grizzlies in Canada-Alaska, speaking from experience-I suggest the .450 Alaskan. ABW makes a nice 400 FP for my 450s: Unless the bear is mild mannered, with the 348 WCF- you may make the news- for the wrong reason.
Hello Jorge, Thanks, but, the only 250gr Barnes' I have left are loaded, my old load was 56.5gr RL-17 for 2357 fps, I decided to be kinder to the old rifle and not load the next rounds with new brass to factory spec, my newer load with the Barnes bullets is 53grs RL-17 for 2258 fps, I was also rewarded with more accuracy, all that said, I don't believe a deer, pig, black bear or elk is going to be laying there wondering if my load was running 22, or 2350 fps, they probably wont care either.
I was just given a box of 230gr North Forks. Going to test load them using 250gr data....
Congrats on the 230 NF's too Jorge, bet they'll be a hell of a plow too.
I’d like to give those NFs a try myself.
They gotta be a hammer Buddy, I can't wait to get those 250gr Alaskan Bullet Works bullets in, build a load, and accuracy check, I have no doubt they'll work fine on game.
Gunner500, I never shot any of those little ABW bullets that you guys are discussing, but I can tell you that the 450 grain .458 FMJ Kodiaks at 2150 fps shoot through Cape buff and Bison easily and one even dropped an ele with a frontal brain shot from my 1886 .45-90. They are hammers! However, the NFFPS and Punch are better for frontal brain shots as they shoot through the ele head and on into the body - have to be cut out.
Hello Jorge, Thanks, but, the only 250gr Barnes' I have left are loaded, my old load was 56.5gr RL-17 for 2357 fps, I decided to be kinder to the old rifle and not load the next rounds with new brass to factory spec, my newer load with the Barnes bullets is 53grs RL-17 for 2258 fps, I was also rewarded with more accuracy, all that said, I don't believe a deer, pig, black bear or elk is going to be laying there wondering if my load was running 22, or 2350 fps, they probably wont care either.
Been working the 230 North Forks today with RL-17 and promising results. Your 53 load is closer to what I use and I go with 2250 or as close as I can get it. My load is 58gr of H 4350 and WLRs
I've been using the ABW Kodiak 250gr bullets in my 356 win for many years, very accurate and excellent wound channel. Have 4 boxes on way, when he does another run will get more, best bullet I've found for the 356.
crshelton, good to know quality resonates throughout the caliber spectrum with the company, and congrats on smacking an ele and cape buffalo.
Jorge, Thanks for the H-4350 and WLR hit, if RL-17 doesn't pan with the ABW 250's I have plenty of H on hand, good luck with the 230's and 17 too.
338fed, good to know, that 356 probably really pushes those 250's, glad to hear they hold up and are accurate, I still think my old '71 348 with either 250gr ABW or Woodleigh would be a great big bear choice, a proper hit from either aint going to buff out.
Gunner, that load works perfectly for the 250 Woodleighas as well. I just returned from the range and obtained "ok" results with RL-17 and 230 North Forks, but there is another 348 shooter here (Beretz maybe?) who had excellent results with RL 17. I basically take an 9" tapering to 6" trapezoid black target (like the one North 61 uses) and can put either 250 Woodleigh, Barnes and 200gr Hornadies, both Flex Tip and flat nose into 4" at 100 yards. I have gotten MOA plus with both loads as well, but I figured that target is "minute of moose, elk, etc" out to 200 yards. My load for the 200s (as well as the 250s) I got from Mule Deer and let me tell you, they work! and right at factory MVs
56/5gr Varget for the 200s and WLRs there as well too.
J
edit: do a search here and you'll find many posts with loads with my stuff as well as the other users,
NICE! and Thanks Jorge, and hell yes, beretzs is a shooter for sure, I believe he has a receiver peep on his 71 too, my rifle will average around three inches at 100 with the Barnes bullets and bolt peep sight, I need to go smack a cow elk with those 250gr Alaskan Bullet Works I have on the way, thinking she will stumble, stagger and fall soon after the hit, a lot of 'good' delivered with 250grs and these old rifles.
Gunner, You will find the ABW 250 grain bullets to be first rate. I have been using that bullet in my 348 WCF since 2003 and so far I have haven't managed to catch one. Granted several deer, about a dozen pigs , one black bear, one moose and a nilgai isn't a big sample size but big enough for me to use their bullets in my 375 H&H, 45-70 and my 405 WCF. Mike Murray used to run the outfit and after he passed Karl Mielke took over the operation, first rate people. Haven't spoke with Karl in a while, ought to give him a call and order up a few more bullets "just in case". I learned about ABW "Kodiak" Bonded bullets from someone that I worked offshore with years ago, he was a big fan. They used to make a 330 gr. bullet for the 405 WCF that was impressive on both ends. If the 250 gr. bullets aren't to your liking, drop me a line I'll take them off your hands for what you paid for them.
Man! that's great news StarchedCover, many Thanks for those game reports, that all but guarantees all I need to do is stick one of those AWB 250's in the right spot and the rest will be gutting and skinning.
And you got it, if my rifle for some reason absolutely hates em, i'll send you a PM.
I was headed out the door with my Glock 21 and a pocket full of magazines to go shoot, up pulls the mail lady with a big box from Alaska, it was my bullets, I pleaded for one minute of her time, went and grabbed my checkbook and stamped envelope, knifed open the box and got the invoice out, she sat on a feed bucket and pet my Wifes Rottweiler pup while I filled a check out, then handed it to her.
I sure love the less than regulation only lifestyle out here in flyover country, now to get the rest of those Barnes bullets shot up and start with these 250gr ABW's.
Jorge, you bet, beings as beretzs has a camera and knows how to post pics, I should send some to him to run into the water jugs for us if he has the time.
Jorge, you bet, beings as beretzs has a camera and knows how to post pics, I should send some to him to run into the water jugs for us if he has the time.
Anytime Gunner. I’ve got a decent build up of milk jugs.
Jorge, you bet, beings as beretzs has a camera and knows how to post pics, I should send some to him to run into the water jugs for us if he has the time.
Anytime Gunner. I’ve got a decent build up of milk jugs.
NICE!, thanks beretzs, i'll get some ready and text you for a mailing address, hoping they go as far, and retain as much weight as your Woodleighs did, that will give us a great comparison, as we've heard here, both do a bangup job on game.
Damn, that's smoking Ed, and yessir, I've heard a lot of good about GSCustom bullets, can't wait for the jug test from beretzs, I sent a few extra today for chronoing and accuracy check.
I'm predicting theses bullets will be pulled from the eighth jug.
The Hornady 200 grain flat nose went through six water jugs. Weighs 142.5, expanded to .700 by .640. Muzzle velocity was 2441. Very interested to hear the results of the Kodiaks. Ive got a few Swift A Frames. I’ll start saving jugs for one of those
The Hornady 200 grain flat nose went through six water jugs. Weighs 142.5, expanded to .700 by .640. Muzzle velocity was 2441. Very interested to hear the results of the Kodiaks. Ive got a few Swift A Frames. I’ll start saving jugs for one of those
north 61 used that bullet on a one shot , DRT moose kill at close to 200 yards. his video is on You TUBE
The Hornady 200 grain flat nose went through six water jugs. Weighs 142.5, expanded to .700 by .640. Muzzle velocity was 2441. Very interested to hear the results of the Kodiaks. Ive got a few Swift A Frames. I’ll start saving jugs for one of those
north 61 used that bullet on a one shot , DRT moose kill at close to 200 yards. his video is on You TUBE
Nice, Thanks for the info Frank and Jorge, big B should be getting those ABW's any day now.
So Sorry! I have been getting things in place for retirement in November so it has been a bit hectic. I have actually finally played with some 250 Barnes Originals. As with most of the Original tribe sectional density helps as the increased length creates more of a friction bond between core and jacket. the p[ure lead and copper will not shatter but core separations are a real possibility. I rate the 250 Woodleighs are the best 250 grain bullet I have tested. That said I have pretty much settled on 200 and 220 grain bullets for the extra velocity and so I don't need to re-sight. The 200 A-Frames are probably the best single bullet as they penetrate almost as well as the 250 grainers and they expand well at low velocity as well. I have also had good luck with the plain old Hornady bullets.
I have put some of my opinions on moose hunting and the 71 in Blog Form here.
So Sorry! I have been getting things in place for retirement in November so it has been a bit hectic. I have actually finally played with some 250 Barnes Originals. As with most of the Original tribe sectional density helps as the increased length creates more of a friction bond between core and jacket. the p[ure lead and copper will not shatter but core separations are a real possibility. I rate the 250 Woodleighs are the best 250 grain bullet I have tested. That said I have pretty much settled on 200 and 220 grain bullets for the extra velocity and so I don't need to re-sight. The 200 A-Frames are probably the best single bullet as they penetrate almost as well as the 250 grainers and they expand well at low velocity as well. I have also had good luck with the plain old Hornady bullets.
I have put some of my opinions on moose hunting and the 71 in Blog Form here.
No but I did have a short barreled 358 with a long throat that I used for several years in Nunavut that when I got a chronograph I had been running at 356 velocities. I'd concentrate on the 180 and 220 speer flat noses, they both expand at low velocity and hang together at speed. They don't expand too wide so penetration is good. The 200 Rem Round Nose Corelock is also a very good bullet. I found the 358 bullets at 356 speeds to be very dependable killers if a tad unspectacular. The speed seemed just a little low for high shock. I was shooting mostly caribou and they would tend to go for a short walk before collapse. That's why I have the 307. For light to medium game it seems to kill faster and with the 170 Partition is a good moose round as well. Don't tell anyone as this could be hard to hear in a big-bore lever forum. That said if I ever see a good 356 at a good price I'd be happy to own one. With 220 Speers I'd have a good handy moose and bear gun that comes pretty close to the great 348. The 200 Hornady FTX might work well as a fast expander in the 356 as well. Worth a try.
So Sorry! I have been getting things in place for retirement in November so it has been a bit hectic. I have actually finally played with some 250 Barnes Originals. As with most of the Original tribe sectional density helps as the increased length creates more of a friction bond between core and jacket. the p[ure lead and copper will not shatter but core separations are a real possibility. I rate the 250 Woodleighs are the best 250 grain bullet I have tested. That said I have pretty much settled on 200 and 220 grain bullets for the extra velocity and so I don't need to re-sight. The 200 A-Frames are probably the best single bullet as they penetrate almost as well as the 250 grainers and they expand well at low velocity as well. I have also had good luck with the plain old Hornady bullets.
I have put some of my opinions on moose hunting and the 71 in Blog Form here.
Thanks North61, no apology necessary, I understand life getting in the way of loafing and having fun on the internet, the old 250gr Barnes are nearly shot up and gone, I wont look for more, I have four boxes of the 250gr Alaskan Bullets Works bonded bullets, I have to believe they'll perform like the Woodleighs, i'll work up a load around 2250 fps and see how they perform this hunting season.
North61, thanks for the reply. I've been using the 250gr Kodiak for moose and when deer hunting in area's where brown bears are. For most deer hunting have been using 200gr factory, got lucky and came up with 25 boxes.
JPB..thanks for posting the photo. That was when my son was 8years old. Now at 16 he is 6'4" tall and gets his own moose.
Gunner: The Alaskan's will be a fine bullet. Woodleighs here are more readily available from Tradeex... and less expensive. Must be the old Commonwealth connection with Australia.
I have some discontinued 220 grain X bullets that penetrate very well and with 220 Barnes Originals make a pretty good pair. I think you are wise keeping the speed and pressures down in the old Winchester, in my 22" barrel I aim for 2500 with 200 grains, 2375 with 220 grainers and 2200 with 250. Brass lasts longer, and is hard enough to find Or expensive enough to make that matter.
Mark, let us know how the 250 grain Kodiaks work. Always looking for a new 358 bullet to try in my 350 Rem Mags.
I've killed several deer and 2 moose with the Kodiak 250's, haven't recovered any but the wound channels were spectacular, also very accurate. In 358 or 350 rem think it would be hard to beat either the 225 or 250 swift A-frames, the Norma 250onyx should also work well just loaded some up for a friend in 358. Just built a 24in barrel 356 win that sadly think will replace my 348, not enough difference in performance to justify the mod 71 and as my wife constantly reminds me I have too many rifles.
Dangit, lead your Wife back to her three or four closets and point out how many pairs of ladies shoes you see. I'm glad to hear the ABW 250's work so well, I hunt my '71 when feeling retro, NO scoped rifle can match that for old school cool, and I have plenty that have tried.
North61, I just watched a few of your 348 Win videos. Any idea who may have made these bullets? They're well over 35 years old and were just pulled from reloads.
Interesting! The problem of being in an out of the way place is that I don't get to go to many shows! I don't know what bullets these are. Remington Peters had some interesting designs but all I could do is give you wild guesses. What are the weights?
The one with the funky nose might be the Peters inner belted. They came in one odd weight 210 grains, and had that weird nose shape.
If it works here is a link to an image of one in 30-06
I tried 308 in my 307 and it made for an unholy mother of all jams. Would be handy to be able to use plentiful and cheap brass but the 307 availability is pretty good right now.
Re: Alaska Bullet Works 250gr .348 bullets. This one opened up at around 2200fps. I just hope I can find a creature down here that's thick enough to have it expand in it.
the nice old Gent on the phone said they have been used to handily kill all Alaskan game for more than 35 years, they'll shoot through anything up there, he also stated he has lots of elk moose and black bear hunter customers in the Pacific Northwest and Canada that effectively harvest all manner of large heavy game.
![[Linked Image]](https://north61.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/8/8/118842635/james-helps-dsc00357_orig.jpg)
I'm glad to hear the ABW 250's work so well, I hunt my '71 when feeling retro, NO scoped rifle can match that for old school cool, and I have plenty that have tried. 
