I want a new Ruffed grouse gun. The ones I am considering
Are a :
Benelli Ultralight 20
Dickinson 16 gauge

I have had two model 12 16’s, have a Benelli Montefeltro 20 gauge, and have an EJ Bland 12 gauge double choked cylinder and full. They all at times seemed a little long when in the brush.

I had a Fox Sterlingworth 26” that was probably my favorite, except it was a 12 gauge. And a Citori 28 gauge, but for some reason I didn’t shoot it all that great.
Any suggestions?

Since the Fox was your favorite, another SxS would probably suit you best. A SxS with 26" barrels will be several inches shorter than an auto with 26" barrel. That's the way I would go.

As you already know, different hunters define a good grouse gun and [gauge(s)] differently. I had an SKB light 12 s x s and stupidly sold it, thinking I could find another somewhat locally. I picked up an SKB O/U 20 ga, 26" barrels and really like it. I have a Model 12, 20 ga (family heirloom) that is a pleasure to handle and carry. I have a NIB Benelli M2 20 ga that I'm undecided on keeping, but time will tell.
As was suggested above, it the Sterlingworth fit you the best, look for another s x s.

I don't shoot Brownings that well either and prefer my Italian guns, I shoot them a lot better. That is common many seem to shoot one or the other better.

I have a BUL but in 12 and while I have shot grouse with it reserve it for pheasant in SD. Have shot the 20 BUL but it is just a bit too wimpy for me, and long. Have 2 Dickinson Plantation Sporters and they are good guns but use them for clays they are built for that. But wouldn't pass on a field model in 16 if it came my way at a decent price.

The new Sweet 16 A5 is a great grouse gun but a real tall drink of water to carry in the grouse woods. I think of it as my Benelli Ultralight in 16. Ended up having Briley cut it down to 23" and Mark Larson reshape that steep radius grip to a round knob. Now it is a proper grouse gun. After Briley took care of the barrel length for me it is now as long as my Ithaca 37 26" 16 ga. guns and I shoot it as well as those which I grew up with and shoot well.



My favorite grouse gun as of late is the F.A.I.R. Iside. You can find them on Guns International or Gunbroker. Cole Guns and Lion Country Supply also carries them but they sell fast when they come in. Several of my friends have them from 28 ga. to 12 ga. with most in16 ga. Mine is 16 ga. of course. Because ruff prefers to be shot with purple shells.



Snow came early last year on the North Shore and didn't leave until a couple of months ago, or so it seems. You better hurry, the season is almost here!

I'd steer clear of the Dickinson guns. I've read way too many issues with them to make me purchase one. If you really wanted a modern made SxS, I'd look at the FAIR Iside. Personally, I'd buy a nice condition American classic ala Parker, Fox, LC Smith, etc and restore it. I'd really like to get a 16 gauge Fox Sterlingworth and build a custom on it. Maybe someday.

My current grouse guns consist of a Browning Citori Upland Special 20 gauge and a Benelli Ultralight 28 gauge. Which I just got the Benelli a few weeks ago and haven't hunted it yet.

To me, grouse guns are svelte sub gauges with English straight grip stocks and slim forends. Grouse hunting here in Maine is a lot more snap shooting than swinging through birds. So I like shorter, handier barrels that I can pull up fast in a covert and snap a shot off. My Citori has 24" barrels. A real bad gun to use on clays, but it's a hunting machine for me.

I see some redundancy if you get the Ultralight as you have a Montefeltro already. Not a whole lot of difference there between the two models other than a little shorter barrel and mag tube. I'd be patient and find a good Sterlingworth that has stocks that fit you. The early Philadelphia guns had a lot of drop in them and don't fit for most shooters. A 28" SxS is going to probably be like a 24" auto or pump so keep that in mind.

Well ColdIron, I do think purple is a good color for grouse hunting.

I don’t think I mentioned I had a Parker Trojan in 16 gauge that was pretty nice. I sold that one also. And an LC Smith in twenty gauge. That one I really wish I had kept. I should have my head examined for that.

I sold most of them to buy a beautiful 12 gauge Merkel Side lock with arabesque engraving. I was doing more pheasant hunting then.

The thick woods and brush busting for grouse in hilly terrain, I don't like the length of those flatlander guns they use in the open fields. All my upland guns used for grouse, all had shorter barrels.

The reduced length is a charm in the woods, on that nano second snap shot on a flushing grouse, with only a 2 ft window between spruce thickets.

This one here with about 40” in overall length and a sleek 6 lbs is perfect!:

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-redhead-premier-reduced-length-20-gauge-24-barrels-13-lop/

I have a webley and Scott 12ga under 6lb ,ic/mod factory 2 3/4 chambers , 26" barrels I'm thinking of selling.

Good Eastern Grouse cover...2 inches of shorter barrel length isn't going to save you here. Odds are the tree will hit close to the receiver as often as the end of the barrel..Go for balance and not 26 vs 28..

May be different in your area.... however here we try to work the edges where one can get good shooting more in the open....the Dogs job is to dig them out of the nasty....




Wouldn't save you in this type either...28inches...not counting the receiver... 12 Gauge....Mod choke...Just under 6 lbs..




28 Gauge...26 inch barrel and 4 inches of receiver....IC...around 6 lbs





Working the edges....

Good observation Battue. You are probably right. Nice to hear from you. We talked a few years ago about my 447 Merkel, iirc. Thanks for posting, I like the photos as well.
Gary

Only what’s right for me. 😁Obviously others can make something else work.

Have resisted buying a Merkel more than once. A great SxS.

Thanks for the pic compliment. Couple Buds get a little edgy when I’m messing around with one. 👍🏻

I would go with the sxs, but just because I seek to shoot them better than any other shotgun.

I use a Toyota and a Jack Russell dog.

Can’t afford them.

I shoot a 1952 Remington model 11-48, 20 ga with a 28" plain barrel. Best handling shotgun I have owned.....Darrel

Short barrels and super tight chokes for the thick woods…..

I've never found 28" bbls on a 20ga SxS too long for grouse and woodcock here in NB. I've had them as short as 25" and still prefer the 28s for handling.

YMMV.

So many choices, maybe I’ll just use my Bland. It’s pretty light

I’ll be out chasing grouse tomorrow which is our Michigan opener. My go to grouse gun the past two years has been a 20 gauge FAIR Iside.
I looked at Dickinson at the time that I bought the FAIR. The Dickison’s seem to have a little nicer grain in the stock but I’d rather buy an Italian made product over a Turkish made one.

As much as I like doubles especialy SXS, Benelli ultralight all the way!

With a grouse gun - Balance is king.

You have about a half second to get the gun up and lined up, you have another half second to full second to kill the bird before it’s through that small clearing in the trees.

I use a Benelli M2 which balances correctly for me and with it I’m lightning fast, some guns are front light, others are front heavy… I miss a lot more with those.

got to fit, no time to aim, when you mount the gun it has to be pointed where you are looking.

Subconsciously knowing how to point correctly comes before fit. Most don’t do well at it.

Ruger Red Label, 26" bbl. Like a wand for me.

I would disagree. Fit is most important, other wise your constantly trying to adjust fit to point properly. In grouse cover, you don`t have the time to do both at the flush.
Lots of talk about shooting and owning multiple guns. IMHO, that`s a mistake. Had a good friend like that. Was always cycling through guns, and dogs, to find the "right" one. Never did. I own many rifles, but only one shotgun, a Winchester 101, IC and Mod. It fits me.
OTOH, if you just like to buy shotguns..get as many as you can.

The best quail and grouse gun I ever owned was a Ithaca SKB model 200 20 bore with 25" barrels. I had it opened up a bit on the modified barrel and left the IC alone. It was quick pointing and fit me well. I had a few more expensive side by sides like a Merkel 16 and a Model 23 Winchester 12 but none were quite the shooters that little Ithaca-SKB was.

Technique comes before fit, and for many an off the rack correct fit is hard to find. Technique encompasses everything from how you mount to how you use vision.

Little different than golf…one can have a perfectly fitted set of clubs….but without knowing how to use them, scores will be nothing to get excited about.

In any sport, skills development comes before equipment.

And many discover, as their skills advance, as they refine how they use the equipment, what used to “fit” has changed.

Winchester Model 59…

I've had a couple of those 25" M-200s over the years. They are superb field guns but finally settled on the 28" M100 with the chokes opened up to IC/M.

I like the longer 28" bbls of the M100 for handling. Also prefer extractors and the splinter forend on the 100. The 200s have a big beavertail forend and ejectors.

Of the 11 shotguns I own I find myself taking a smith and Wesson 1000 with IC for grouse more and more every year

Great quail gun too. Light weight and fits me right. Replaced my sxs

Churchill 28 gauge 21" I/C modified.

One of my old hunting buddies back in WI used a Franchi AL-48 20ga with 24" barrels he was hard on birds, not many got away. My X-FinL used a Rem. Model 31 Skeet 12ga again a superb shot on grouse. Sorry no pics of grouse, my little Bernardelli Elos 12ga 25" IC/IM is the king of the woods for me, it is lightning fast and with an oz of 6's or 7's B&P High Pheasant rounds is my favorite.

Bernardelli at work in MT on Pheasants.

I have Dickinson Plantation 16 ga. I did some research and took a chance. Whether I was lucky, I don’t know, but I would grade the wood, fit and finish as AAA, equal or surpassing some Italian and Spanish $3k guns. In fact, it far surpasses one Beretta 470 Silver Hawk I had and equals another one in wood grade.

Mechanically, all is tight and I have hit very well with it after a year’s experience.

My two complaints which might not be for someone else are it’s weight and the chokes. It’s 6-12 which, for me is at least a good 8 oz heavier than a 16 need be IMO. But, yet, with 28” barrels, it swings and balances very well.

The chokes are not notched like most screw-ins are. They are screwed in like normal, but removal requires inserting a metal cone-shaped tool often requiring a piece of leather over the top to create enough friction to break the grip of the threads. For whatever reasons, they went with this alternative to notched chokes; I find it less convenient.

Overall, I’d grade my sample at a B+, instead of an “A” because of these two “cons” but yet I am quite pleased.

Wow the dogs in this thread are as good as the guns, maybe better.

Nice shotgun.

You could always have those chokes notched to fit another makers choke wrench.

My pick would be a Wingmaster 870 20ga with fixed Skeet Choke.

I like 12s and 20s at different times of the season.

Fav SxS is a 28” Browning English straight grip, chokes loosened up to Light IC, and Tight IC ( .008 “ / .012 “) ( if IC = 1/4. 3/16 & 5/16 )
This BSS is a tank for weight, but smooth swinging. but not using it for duck shooting. Seriously thinking about extending the forcing cones and some back-boring for lightening a bit. The cones are quite abrupt.

I also shoot a 26” Red Label 20 ga. On grouse, It’s heavy enough that I’ve thought about converting it to 16 ga for this kind of hunting. On Skeet, it soaks up recoil, but could’ve been a 28” more better for smoother swing through. At 26” it’s more an instinctive point & shoot, No real complaints hunting other than total weight.

Maybe a 28” 16ga barrel set to fit this 20 ga Rcvr

I’m back to 12 ga for later season, 26” V3 is my new pet, edging out the 870 with 21” and 26” bbls

Weight of course is critical for long days afield.

Good choice 👍

Bingo!! I use both a Standard and LW model. Both are pre 1975 guns. I use AA Supersport #8's, Use the AA SS #7.5 Full for Pheasant.

I just bought a 20ga Citori CSX.

Right handy. Not Kimber Montana handy but handy.

Fit and feel. I have heard so much about "long" guns not being usable in grouse country that i could puke. If 26" is too long, then 26" will be just fine. Except talk to a guy with 26" bbls and he's considering having another inch lopped off his. Are grouse so scarce that the rare shot lost because of long barrels ruins a hunt? Shotgun fit and feel. Lack of fit or an unresponsive gun will spoil more shots in one hunt than an extra inch of barrel will over an entire season. I have two 16s from different manufacturers. Barrels are 28" and I reworked the stocks so that they mount and feel identical. One is choked IC and Mod, the other Mod x Full. If there were a local gunsmith I could trust, I'd have them set for choke tubes. As it is, the ICxMod gets most of the use.
RB

My favorite in '21 was a Beretta A400 28 ga Xplor. 5#8oz of very dynamic handling. It's the only sub 6# gun I ever broke 25 at skeet with. We hunt grouse...ruffs and blues in the timber and it worked well. Some shartails in a more open country along with Chukars in the wide open. Used the Mod choke all fall with 7/8 oz of 6 or 7.5 lead shot reloads.

Other shotguns that have held the role of fall grouse (bird) guns at the house include a Grulla 20 ga SxS (sidelock, twin trigger, 28" with IC & Mod chokes), the AYA #2 version of the Grulla (one in 20 ga and another in 16 ga), a Beretta 686 20 ga with 28" barrels and a straight grip Cole's stock (pretty), a CZ Bobwhite .410, twin trigger, w/26" barrels choked IC & Mod. The little .410 punches above its weight for me but you want 3" shells and short shots.

'22 possibly might see a 1934 Winchester Model 12 20 ga in the woods. The 26" barrel is marked Modified but it checks out at 0.009" of constriction or IC. Ideal woods shotgun in my mind. And that 28 ga Beretta Auto is tough to beat for carrying and handling, and ultimately putting grouse in the strap vest.

I hunted last Fall with a Rizzini Artimus Light in 16g. A great gun in the Alberta Foothills hunting Ruffed and Spruce grouse. I also used it on the Prairies close to home in pursuit of Huns. It has become a new favourite, at least for forest grouse. I still enjoy my 686 20g as a Hun gun. And of course my SKB 500 12 is a great choice for pheasants.
Jeff

Your "new" grouse gun doesn't have to be new to be a great grouser. I blundered into a killer deal for this well-used but tight and sound French Robust No.4 16 gauge. It was choked Mod/Full. At IC/IM the gun is the ultimate upland gun, IMO. It weighs right at 6 pounds and points like your finger.

You named some great choices in new guns, and I wouldn't mind having any of them. Don't overlook the old-school Classic upland shotguns.

a brace of big blues


a limit of two sagehen

You would not regret it. My favorite bird gun for some years now has been My Merkel 1620. (20 gauge frame, 16 and 20 gauge barrels.) It's a wand in the woods. Generally, I hunt with the 16 gauge barrels and use the 20 gauge barrels for sporting clays. When I use it for clays, I shoot about 50 targets maximum because the little gun is just too light weight for more than that. No matter that it fits well and I can hit with it, more than about 50 targets in a short period of time and I'll develop a flinch.

One of the best upland autos ever made in my opinion.

I have a FAIR Iside like this on its way. I didn’t need it, but I sure wanted it. Can’t wait to shoot pheasant with it.

ColdIron, IMO, that was a great mod of your Browning 16. It’s beyond me, with that already long receiver that Browning then put on a barrel as long as a broom stick. I also know they can do nice English stocks and POW grips, but they can also put out the most audacious, closed pistol grips possible.

Good job.

Not a grouse hunter per se but picked up one of these in January. 16 ga Feather Superlight Browning Citori. 6 lbs exactly; 26” tubes. Will be applied to pheasants but would work for grouse too.

Also likes purple shot shells.