Im looking to get a new diesel truck, What are your opinions to which diesel to buy? What are the good and bad points of all three? Thanx in advance.

New?

I wouldnt get a cummings, but I do love the cummins. It really depends on what your going to do with it. A cummins has more torque and towing. A stock duramax will roast a modded cummins in a drag race (google efi live). And ford is coming out with their new engine which i would stay away from for a few years. On the other hand fords do make great trotline weights if thats your deal.

Get what you like the most. Engine wise. Can't beat the Cummins. Thats what I ended up getting. Do your own research. You will get some weird opinions from people spouted as fact. I have never seen a stock duramax run a sub 11 second 1/4 mile or a 12 13 or 14 for that matter. But I have seen modded dodges and Fords do it.

In reality they are all pretty decent rigs. Some just do certain things better than others.

I'm a big ford fan and I'm really pulling for the new scorp engine but i wouldn't mess with the 6.0 or the 6.4

i have the 6.0

sure miss my 7.3

Spouted as fact? Thanks for the compliment. Were not talking completly bombed cummins, but back to reality. Ive got what I would consider a modded dodge with a edge, fass, TBE and Valair, and I wouldnt put 1 dollar on me vs a stock duramax. But if you consider 10k worth of aftermarket parts in a dodge or ford "modded" then yes, you are right. Im talking simple terms here not extreme.

if i can get new i will but prob a 1-2 year old truck

If you are looking used try to look for DPF's (diesel particulate filter) and stay far away. My bet would be a 07 cummins.

dura max hands down that allison can not be equaled and that is comming from a guy that drove fords.. Chevrolet has the pick up now

^
7

holy crap.

registered in 05, first post ever?

Dude, we didn't know you could talk!!

I guess it just took something really important to get a post out of you?

+1

Just an FYI. If you are looking at Ford or GM, their diesels are not 2010 compliant and there will be a shortage coming of HD diesel trucks on their lot (more so than now). I have heard Gm will not have a 2010 Diesel until April/May and about the same with Ford. Once those engines come out they will have DEF.
Yes the particulate filters were a pain in the butt with the Dodges, but do not have issues with them now as new PCM flashes have become available and people "learning" how to drive/operate them.
All New Dodge HD Ram should start showing up at dealers late Nov. Great deals on the "old" body style. New HD Dodge is going to stir the market. Dodge has always been known for the Cummins and now will have a ride/comfort/convience to go along with it.

Dodge- Good: Engine and drive train are the best. Bad: Rides rough (until 2010 model)
GM- Good: Great ride, creature comforts. powertrain is good. Bad: low ground clearance, not as good off road as Ford or Dodge.
Ford- Good: Power- has lots of it. Big and roomy. Bad- reliability on the 6.0 and new engine yet TBD. Bad fuel economy with 6.4l

Let the flames begin, but jmo.

Hemi

Yes I am a Dodge guy so my pick would be that

I guess I kinda forgot about this board so I was wondering if I was still on file and I was! I spend time at rimfire central and leverguns

here is my general overview of the diesel pick up market

6.9 ford had it till
dodge came with the cummins
ford direct injected the 7.3 and everyone was chasing the ford.
chevy came with the dura max coupled with that allison and everybodys in the dust still are.

I do not mod. anything it voids warrentee. learned this along time ago "don't mess with your daily driver" it finds away to turn into a wrenching project.

if I were to buy a new one it would go like this

chevrolet total package
Dodge economy not so much power
ford would not have a new one to many issues do you know you half to lift the cab up to check the injectors... that is just the tip of the iceberg

Ive drove em all and its just my opinion

as for 2010 models they will get it figured out in short order

my last ford 02 7.3 traded in on a 04 dura max could not be happier I now have an 09

^
7
we are talking about pick ups right?? cuz this is what a truck looks like

I wouldn't get a new diesel truck, I'd get an 06 or older so you don't have the current smog control and hence reduced mileage of the newer trucks.

Unfortunately there is no ideal truck, as there are pro's and con's of each truck, each tranny, and each engine. I went with the '06 ram due to the cummins engine, and haven't been sorry with the engine. I can't stand my local dealer, or how Chrysler/Dodge deals with customer service. No real complaints on the truck, I expect a truck to drive like a truck, have solid axles front/rear and a positive means of shifting into 4wd.

Perhaps the guy actually wants to tow and haul with the truck (you know, use it like a truck) and not like a race car.

Cummins and Duramax are both good, I wouldn't trust ford diesels now as they seem to change diesel motors about every 2-3 yrs, if they were worth a damn I guess Ford wouldn't need to change motors all the time. BTW did you know the 6.4 Powerstroke is already on its way out?

Bill

Rumor has it that the name DODGE on RAM pickups with the Cummins engine is on the way out, too. I read that Fiat is going to drop the nameplate part that says DODGE.
So the guys who would never be caught dead driving a DODGE will now be able to buy a RAM with a Cummins.
Of course it will now be a FIAT with an American engine, as opposed to, say, a CHEVROLET with an ISUZU engine.

New, I couldn't tell you which. If looking for older then I would find GMC or Chevy 06-07 LBZ. They have some emissions stuff but do not have the DPF on the exhuast. Take it and get the EGR valve blocked and fingered or DIY. There are some 09 LMM GMC's and Chevy around which are better on mileage than LMM INthe 07.5's and 08's but they still get worse mileage than the LBZ. The LLY is better on fuel but it has 50 less hp than the LBZ. The LB7's were good on fuel but had injector and overheating problems and 80 hp less than the LBZ.I think the Dodge is ok the fords are about 50/50 some have problems and some don't. However the GM trucks have had some EGR problems( JUST BLOCK IT OFF) and some tranny problems in extreme cold( fluid problem and a check valve thing) which they did a recall on the cold weather problem. I like the Dodge's ground clearance, it can handle a much bigger tire than the GM and Ford. The Ford has better looks than the Dodge and GM IMHO. I HAVE A 07 Chevy 2500 HD Classic CCSB 4X4 and love it, good power and good mileage.

I like my 01 Cummins. Great motor. 145K. Tows 11 rolls of hay out of the field with no problem. Tows my boat with no problem. I don't even know the boat is there!

The problem has been the truck it powers.

Since you may be looking used, I would opt for the 06 Dodge with the 5.9 or if you could find an early production 07 with the 5.9. That is what I have and am very happy. Traded a 2004 Ford with the 6.0 for the Dodge. The 6.0 spent more time in the shop than it did my driveway!

I'm happy with my 07 dodge with 5.9, stock it has 325hp 600fp torqe. i would buy a gas rig with a manual trans before i bought any diesel with the particulate crap on it. Diesel smog control kills the economy of buying a diesel truck.

+1 I have the 06 Dodge and I plan on keeping it for a long time. I have no use for a truck that won't run when the "particulate filter" is full.

It always surprises me to the number of people who bash the 6.7L cummins over the 5.9L because of the particulate filter. I understand it had a lot of issues when it first came out. As of current, I do not see the number of issues as before with the new PCM flashes that are out.
The 5.9L pre '04 was a great engine. We replace more 5.9L engines ('05-'07) than anything else in our shop due to injector failure and cylinder wash/scoring. If it isn't a whole engine it is injectors. Personally I think the fuel systems on those models are crap. The filtration is uber poor.
If it were up to me I wouldn't own a 5.9L- I'd go 6.7L all the way. WAY less issues and I'll take having to take the vehicle out for a drive to regen the filters anyday over a $15K engine replacment.

just saying

Hemi.

So you are saying the 6.7 has better filtration than the late 5.9 s ??

Aren't the fuel systems basically the same(common rail) ?

The reason alot of 05-07 trucks were losing injectors is because the Bouche injectors required a minimum 7 micron fuel filter.

All Dodoge dealers were supplying and still sticking in those trucks were 10 micron filters for a long time. Dodge didn't bother telling any owners this either.......

Luckily, I've run 5 micron Baldwins in my 05' all along.

Yes the fuel systems are the same- common rail. The filtration is different and there is actually an upgraded filter on the 5.9L that brings them up to the 6.7L.

Hemi

True. Dodge filters use to be 10 a while ago. Bouche actually recommends 5 I believe not 7 microns. The upgraded filter for the 5.9L is 7 and the filter system for the 6.7L is 5.

Hemi

5.9 Liter owners can run 5 micron without upgrading to the newer filter system. Just buy baldwin PF 7977 filters for the 5.9, they are 5 micron filters/water seperators.

I think the 3rd generation engines(03-07) are just fine, they were just hampered by the wrong filters being used in them. I see it more as Dodges fault than the motor itself.

FWIW evryone I know who has 6.7's have had nothing but pure hell with them.

I LOVE my 03 5.9 HP with the 6 speed. It's my second Cummins powered truck. I've had nothing but good luck with them. As stated, watch what you put in for a fuel filter in these rigs! All the filters on my truck are Fleetguard(Cummins)from our local International dealer. The price is no higher then other brand filters from an auto parts store.

Get whichever truck you like the best. Good Luck to ya

The Cummins is a class A diesel, the Ford a class B

if you plan a rebuild after a zillion miles that is important.

01' that works hard!

Hi all new guy here!

Anyway, I'm in the market for a new truck and have been considering a diesel. I work Fire/EMS, and all our squads (ambulances) are Fords, 2 with the crappy 6.0 diesels. These two defiantly spend more time in the shop than the 6.4 models. Not to full any debate but, any Power Stroke that serves as an ambulance gets run hard! The Dura Max is starting to gain a foot hold in the fire/ems market as well.

My question is, I will never run and abuse a personal vehicle like I see work vehicles done. Not all is intentional, these trucks just get a work out.

With the newer engines I know they have all the "clean diesel" technology. I have read for the casual owner, this is a problem if the engine is not run to near full potential. Is this true? I don't pull anything, and don't drive far. My concern is what I have read as far as the particulate filter systems. Does any of the big 3 use the urea system? My dept. recently got an order in for a few new fire trucks to beat the 2010 regs. Which one I hear is the Urea system.

If you're not pulling anything, you will likely be much better served with a gas rig. Cheaper to buy up front, newer diesel rigs don't have the same mileage advantage of the older ones over gas, and you'll have to do alot of driving to save the fuel to pay for the more expensive diesel engine.

When you're regularly pulling a load is when a diesel comes into it's own.

PPFD,

Right now the Cummins is the only 2010 emission diesel available in a HD truck (available in the Dodge). It uses a particulate filter with a regen system. Which, basically when the particulate filter gets so full it reaches extemely high tempetures in the exhaust/filter to burn off. The problem comes when the vehicle is excessivly used at 30% load or less. Mostly, people idling for extended periods of time or low rpm driving. This causes more "particulates" to accumulate in the filter quicker as the exhaust temp is lower. When this new system was launched in the Cummins/Dodge it was basically flawed and was not working properly. Once the filter gets to 100% full the vehicle would go into a limp in mode or completly stop running all together. Of course this pissed many people off. As of now, with new programing in the PCM the system is no longer flawed. The problem you still get are people using these trucks as grocery getters or still excessive idling them and not paying attention to the system telling them the filter is 60, 70, 80% full. When that happens the truck must be driven at highway speeds with rpms above 2200 to "regen" the system.
The new Dodge 2010 cab & chassis will have the urea system and all the other HD will stay with the particulate filter. Ford and GM are bringing a urea system to market in their 2010 HD diesels, but those will not be available til late spring as I have heard.

Hemi

The older 5.9 Cummins is real hard to beat for fuel mileage and still tow a bunch down the interstate. A friend of mine bought one of the very last 2007 3/4 ton Dodges with 5.9 and gets over 21mpg with his truck. Owns a feed store and pulls lots of heavy loads with it, he loves his truck.

The Ford 6.0's have had a lot of problems in the past! The Duramax seems the far better choice if you can not find a Cummins. Also the Duramax has a great tranny behind that engine.

I am waiting for FORD to come out with a new Diesel engine that will be better than the 7.3 was in past years. However, that remmains to be seen.

The newer Dodge "Blue Technology" engines don't give much in fuel mileage! A freind of mine purchased a new one ton dually and he is getting 14mpg on the highway after 25,000 miles on the engine. A far cry from the 22mpg he got with this 5.9 engine.

Hemi,

Thanks for the great explanation. I don't understand how these kids now a days can afford a diesel truck then stick a few thousand in mods in them to blow that cool black smoke. I'd be in the grocery crowd as well of I bought a diesel!

Exactamundo! When I bought a Dodge/Cummins new in '97 there was a $4k+/- difference just to get the diesel option. At that time you had to drive the diesel 130k miles to have the same amount of money into it as if you had bought a gas engine. That was figuring cost, service and fuel at then mpgs, and after that point the diesel started saving you money.
With the changes in the prices of the diesel option, fuel costs, service and mpg differences today, I wonder where that 130k has gone to now?

These guys are right, if you don't use the new diesels to thier potential it's really a waste & really not too good for the engines.

They aren't built for idling around unloaded like I do with mine.

I just put my big truck on craigs list which is kinda sad but I have seen the light. I just can't use it like it needs to be used.

I'm looking to get back into a half ton crew with 6.5' bed. (Ford for me)

That is true to a point, but the diesel option doesn't evaporate when you sell the truck. There is still value there. It has been my observation that the gas Dodge trucks depreciate much faster than their diesel cousins.

It really doesn't make much sense to buy a diesel if you are not going to tow much. I don't think I would buy a gas Dodge for any reason. I would buy a gas Toyota, Ford, GMC....in that order if I didn't have my Dodge Cummins.

WE watch powerpokes and jap chevy diesels dead on the road from melted pistons, crap fuels systems and lack of parts. Cummins just keeps on running like a Timex. Not too many 1,000,000 miles Duramelts still on the road.

The diesel option for Dodge is now about $6k. I have heard that GM's new 2010 emission diesel is going to be close to a $10K premium. Even more reason to not buy a diesel if your not pulling.
Speaking of diesels, I have heard that Jeep is going to offer a diesel in almost every vehicle they make in 2011. How about a wrangler with a 4cyl tourqie diesel!

Hemi

Hemi,

You may not have seen my post on another thread, but I was asking if you know the ETA of the new 2010 HD 3500? I would have thought they would be on the dealer lots by now since we are getting so close to 2010.

Owned all 3. Duramax motor meltdown at 100k - - bad head gaskets and my suspicion is they were never installed properly at factory as it was an 05 and there were several with this problem. Allison transmission and rest of truck were really pretty nice.

Ford - old 7.3 powerstroke. The new ones are terrible. Ford dealer TOLD me not to buy one as they ALL were coming back with problems.

2008 Dodge cummins - - if you want a grocery getter buy GM. If you want a diesel pickup buy the Dodge. Trust me no duramax stock is gonna touch the new 6.7 motor. Tranny not an allison but with updated programming from Dodge I'm very happy with its performance. Mine runs with about 2500lbs in the bed all the time and I don't mess around and have had zero problems with dpf.

Yes, they are on dealer lots in limited quantitiy- at least ut here in the mountain area. I have not gotten my first one yet (Several phone calls to my district manager and still none) I have about 17 at the railhead I am waiting for.
Did you see the 2010 HD got Truck of the Year from Motor Trend already?

Hemi

The 2500lbs in the bed at all times probably helps out in keeping the truck running at a higher work load- which for a diesel is good.
That 6.7L is a pulling machine- I don't understand why people try and mod them at the risk of doing damage and voiding warranty. Stock, that truck will pull a mountain.

Hemi

I'm reminded of an earlier statement that alot of people own diesel trucks and don't even own a trailer ball...

See this all the time where I live.

I see more than my fair share of those around here but for the most part they are all getting some work. Mostly pulling cattle trailers. In my area Dodge has taken over the diesel truck segment from Ford and GM be it tow vehicle or work truck. Ford was king until they nixed the 7.3 and introduced all their other abominations.

And yes....the 2500lb do give it a little to work against. Have no desire to mod as it will move along just fine and I have the tickets to show it.

I have a BONE STOCK 1991 Dodge 3/4 ton with 12valve 5.9 Cummins .It has 200K+ and still pulls like a train and gets 17-19mpg in town and 23-25mpg on high way depending on my speed.The only thing I do to it is add 1QT of SEA30 Oil to the fuel on every fill up and plug her in when it gets cold.This morning I went out and started it for the first time in 2weeks and it was 15 degrees out and it fired right up and still blew NO SMOKE.I love this old truck. GO WITH A DODGE

Kind of like that old saying: "All hat and no cattle"

I saw a "dude" one time pull up in his jacked up 1-ton, with queer stacks coming out of the bed no less at a corner store. I said in a friendly but sarcastic manner, "man, I bet it's a pain getting your gooseneck jacked up high enough".

I kid you not, the moron looked me right in the eye and asked "whats a gooseneck?". I propably would have fell down laughing but I was so floored that this "cowboy" didn't even know what the [bleep] I was talking about.

Bill

I would rather have a sister in a hore house then own a dodge.

Now THAT'S FUNNY!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!

If you were smart enough to own a Dodge then maybe you'd be able to spell whore.

Whats her name & where does she work?

Well I see my first post here a campfire will not die!!!!

I do not know what 2010 will bring for pick-ups but I do know this we as comsumers are asking "WAY" to much out of them. They will pull/hotrod way beond their means..

I am the one that posted what a 'REAL "TRUCK" LOOKS LIKE' and a real truck has 10x24.5 tires 13spd. trans and a lot of fiberglass and alum. to cut weight

But in the same token I am guilty in asking my Duramax pick- up to do what a "real" truck should do and have "Real" breaks to stop the load. I pull with my duramax a 25' gooseneck flat trailer... 2500 gal. of water 300 gal of round-up, pumps fittings hoses gas cones with a grand total weight (GVW)of around 52,000 pounds its my water wagon for farming. With that being said it kinda makes stocktrailers and boats look insignifigant. I have pulled them all and nothing puts more power to the ground than chevrolet bar none... Now we can sit here all day and chew the fat about who has and dont have// and that melting pistons thing??? operator error / fluke??? What I am saying is its rare when you here of a "ANY" modern diesel pick up melting down.

This is the last post I will file on this thead because nothing more needs to be said. Merry Christmas and have a nice day.

rafter-7

I would rather meet deerhunterjj's sister in a horehouse than try to pull 52k with my pickup.

These are the kind of fuggin idiots you meet on the road pulling that kind of weight. Just plain stoopid. Hope you never have to stop. You wreck with someone you deserve to get your butt sued so bad for pure neglagence. Then when their truck fails- for no fault of their own (ha!), it's blah blah blah what a piece of crap.
Had a guy tell me once how he pulls 45,000 lbs with his truck all the time and "if you know what your doing it can be done". I told him he obviously didn't know what he was doing.

Hemi

45000 is what I pull with my class 8 truck, and I get nervous with it on heavy slopes or in traffic, and there's a LOT more brakes on that trailer..... JMO, Dutch.

Dutch, you sound like a safe driver. I've watched people drive trucks and trucks with trailers down hills and ride the brakes, with no thought whatsoever to gearing down or slowing down because of the weight. I've also seen them shoot right through stopsigns because their brakes were so hot they couldn't stop. I used to think God would sort it out, but he never did. They still live and breed.
Some people could learn to drive by being taught with normal methods and some needed to have accidents/near accidents to make it sink in. I told my kids the most important thing to remember was to never drive faster than you can stop if something happens...and it will. Today, they are all good drivers.

Now thats some funny SH*%

I work on these trucks for a living, and melted motors is a current thing. The older engines only melted down if you had a cooling nozzle plug from foreign matter, or being overfueled. Melting down was very rare except for those two conditions.

The new engines melt because of injector issues - not just Dodge, but Chevy and Ford as well. They share a very similar fuel system. I also see engines destroyed by these new injectors malfunctioning and filling the crankcase with fuel. It does not take long for an engine to have the viscosity of diesel in the crankcase lubricating critical parts.

My idea of the perfect pickup is a 2010 Dodge for the interior comfort with a 98 12 valve engine. I like the 180hp fuel injection pump best. Then with a NV5600 6 speed manual, 271 transfer case. A Dana 80 Dodge rear axle and a Dana 60 Ford front axle.

I still have my 2000 Dodge with 400,000 miles. It serves as a work truck towing everything from my 10 foot ATV trailer to my 45 foot gooseneck(53 foot total length) and everything in between trailers all over the US. It also served as my family vehicle for many years as well as a pretty fun toy capable of running high 12's in the quarter.

I just sold my 04.5 Dodge with 150,000 miles. It was a good truck, just need a new family vehicle to seat more kids. I just picked up a Chrysler Aspen. I am thinking about building a 392 HEMI for it, but I may just leave it stock for awhile.

Man if i had a sister i would hook ya up. If i had a dodge i would give ya that also.

The big 7.3 was a heck of an engine, noisy yes but it did what it was supposed to do and gave good fuel mileage too. Some leaked now and then but that's the nature of the beast.

The Cummins 5.9 is very reliable and I have several friends who still have their 10 year old trucks with over 300,000 miles on them and no major repairs to speak of and that is fact.

The FORD 6.0 was a nightmare and that's all I got to say on that subject. The Ford 6.4 is much better but still not the engine that the 7.3 proved to be. It may have been louder but it did the job 10-fold. If they made the 7.3 again (Most likely Not!) I would buy a new one in a heart beat. Same goes for the 5.9 Cummins engine! The Dodge was just lacking in other departments like springs and payload, brakes etc. My buddy had to replace the springs on his new 1-ton dually in 2006 because they just didn't hold up after 2 factory sets. He went to after market heavier load springs and out of pocket costs.

I do like FORD trucks and after having a half dozen Chevy's that rusted out and many various repairs, other than the engine, also not great service from the dealers, I switched to FORD.

I am hoping FORDS new engine is even better than the 6.4 model. Who knows maybe they will get things on track once again. I sure hope so for FORDS sake!

The new Cummins 6.7 is a power house (truck is quick and smooth) but like others the fuel mileage is far below the older 5.9 ratings, granted some of it has to do with the new fuel no doubt but you pay for the so called "Blue Technology" to the tune of $1000 extra dollars or more at purchase time and that is a rip off. My old highschool buddy still has his older 5.9 Dodge with 288,000 miles on it but got a new 1-ton dually last year. It gets 15mpg on the highway empty! His old 5.9 got 21.5 mpg empty.

So much for the Industry looking out for the consumer at the gas or fuel pumps. I went to a gas engine after the 7.3's were phased out and certainly did not want a 6.0 Ford diesel. I now have a FORD SUPERDUTY extend cab 8ft bed, E-350 4 x 4 and Yes I went with the gas engine in the V-10, which is very quiet and gives me 15mpg on the highway empty. It is a 2006 with 40,000 miles on it, so I'll just sit back and wait on FORD to put out a better product and perhaps a couple years down the road, (when my 2006 gets tired) I'll bring home that FORD 450 diesel truck with twin screws in the rearend......don't know for sure maybe the gas prices will drop to .50cents a gallon and I won't mess with the diesel LOL

Gas is fine for flatlanders but when you start at 7200' and everything is up, it's gotta be diesel.
Ford can't seem to decide what engine to use, Chevies die,
(we call em' power-pokes and meltamaxes). Cummins rules here.

Mine at home & at Devil's Tower with pop-up popped. (2001, fully gauged, Rixon 19.5 wheels, custom aluminum front bumper, 3/8" steel rear, etc etc.)

We got 2010 Ram 3/4 and 1 tons in at the local dealership......I didn't even bother to look at the sticker cause I knew I'd probably leave with it. The quad cab is slightly bigger and the whole thing is pretty sharp looking.

I like my 99 Super Duty with the 7.3. It still gets 20+ on the highway after 236000 miles.

Just wait til you see what Ford and GMC are gonna charge for their new 2010 emission compliant diesels..... you'll think $1,000 is a steal. Have heard rumors Ford and GM's new diesel will be about a $8500-$9500 premium.

We have started to get in some of the 2010 Dodges. They really are refined now and people are liking them. We have already sold several.

Hemi

I've seen that truck around.

Hemi

That's one of the goofier posts I've seen.

Only a very few sub-11 second Fords, with a ton of nitrous. The list of DMaxes from 9's to 11's is very long, many of them daily drivers. And there are lots of sub 13 second daily driver Dmaxes.....a good tune and tranny work will do it. Quite a bit more to get there with a Dodge.

All these worthless opinions on which truck to get, for Pete's sake get a life.

I called GM and Ford in November of 2008, they both told me that I should get a Dodge, they are the best. You can't make it much clearer than that.




Now a Dodge takes it's place in the Garage, next to the GTO. I still have a hard time seeing to drive with a paper bag over my head.

You're doing the same thing, so get yourself a life too.

Advice from GM and Ford.....yeah right, that's a good load of bs.

And the battle between the 3 trucks still rages on! I too am looking for a diesel in the very near future and with having friends and family with all 3 I am going with the dodge. 04-06 because they still get around 20 mpg and can do what I need.

Just re-read this thread. Sounds like if you use a 5-micron fuel filter you'll have the best diesel truck available.

like most things they just don't make em the way they used to.

2000 F250 7.3 ltr, 250k miles, total repair costs less than five hundred, two water pumps thats it. Seems it and the other pre 03 7.3 likes a water pump bout every 100k or so.

IMO, the biggest mistake ford ever made was taking the 7.3 out of the superduty.

agreed

The Cummins is the ONLY "class two" diesel engine of the three.

Think on that!

Maybe I should start its own thread but both of my buddies have a diesel. One is a duramax and the other a cummins. They each say for offroad they suck. They are too heavy I guess. They start sliding too easy or slide on slick side grades sideways way too easy. They each said they have never been stuck more times than since they have gotten their diesels.

I am considering a 3/4 ton and am torn on diesel vs gas and wondering what say you about the offroad issue?

I have a 3/4 ton with a Cummins and I have had my hands full with it off road. Definite problems with the truck going sideways in slick conditions. Still have the stock tires, which are known to be slick. I look forward to trying some ATs or MT tires in the near future, but the overall weight and front to back weight distribution of a big diesel pickup are not optimal for off road use. I general you are looking at a ton more weight and more weight on the front axles with a 3/4 ton diesel compared to a half ton gasser. Most people that "meat up" and put bigger tires on their diesel rigs and air down do okay off road.

I've had no problem with my Cummins offroad , but I will say; ON the road in slick icy conditions it is one of the best vehicles I've ever been in.

I think the extra weight over the front axle keeps it tracking straight and true......

yeah i think the extra weight of the diesel engine along with the heavier suspension front and rear helps a lot. my boss has an f-250 7.3L and he put 235/85's on it just so it would hook up better on slick roads, he gets around most of the winter in 2wd where i in my 1/2 ton have to drive around in 4wd.

I'm still of the "kid" mentality about liking wider tires because they look cool, but everything I read tells me the narrower ones (like the 235s you mentioned) are better in ice and in snow. In sand, though, wider is better.

and mud as well.

Your friends are spot on. When I got my 2500 ram cummins in 06, I proceded to get myself stuck 3 times within a month of getting it in the snow (got it during thanksgiving) I'd never gotten my toyota truck stuck in the 12 previous years. Part of it was the crappy factory tires, but the other part is that massive heavy engine in the front.

Diesel trucks are great for pulling heavy loads on the road. They are a poor choice for an offroad vehicle.

If I was building an offroader, I'd stick with a 1/2 ton truck. Plenty of people have pimped out and lifted diesel trucks to look like offroaders, but I've yet to see a serious offroad truck that is a diesel.

All the above is why I keep my 97 7.3 Ford with 300 thousand on it. It just keeps working

I also run the 235/85 tires on mine.....IME wide-ish tires suck on snow and ice

Strick, not so for mud!!! Now back in the days of the model T and model A Fords, they used narrow tires because 95% of the roads back then were not paved, some rock yes. Many turned real soupy once the rainy season hit.

Those narrow tires would go right on through the mud without hanging up and that is another reason why they had running boards back in those days.


They also did not need a ton of horsepower to propell them through the thick stuff, there was little resistance to those narrow tires.

Dirtmover, I have a friend who has a 1999 model F-350 Ford truck with a new clip on the front 2005 and his engine, a 7.3 diesel has over 385,000 miles on it and still going strong. He gets 21mpg empty on the highway driving 70mph. Pulling he got 16.5 and that was 12,000-lbs of trailer, horses and tack. He had a 100hp-chip installed at 250,000 and said it worked great!~ He is on his 3rd Ford tranny though, not to bad considering the miles and what he pulls every weekend and hauls trailers for his business.

Rule on tire width and traction:

MUD- wider tires are better. You want to "float" over the mud. Large lugs that clear well, need wheel speed to spin the tire and clean out lugs to get a freah bite into the mud to "paddle" you along. You don't want to "dig down" into the mud.

Snow- narrow is better. You want the tire to "cut" through the snow to get down to where there is something to get traction on- dirt-rocks- etc. You want to dig down through the snow.

Diesels can make just as good off road vehicle as a gas. Yes, the extra weight is something to contend with, but off roading comes down to some pretty basic things. Tires- a big part of it and ground clearance. For more advanced off roading you can get into disconnect sway bars, lockers, and such. However, for the typical hunters off road situation a lot of it is going to come down to the rubber.

I have seen several Dodge Cummins set up pretty nice for off road.

Hemi

Edit to add: A good set of tire chains goes a long way in either mud or snow!

What's a good mud, snow, ice, and rain tire that is E-rated and gets 50k miles w/o alot of noise?

Partagas, just my two cents. I've got an '07 2500 5.9 Cummins Quad Cab 4x4 and a '95 2500 5.4L(360ci?) Ram. Both have the same tires and I will take my '95 off-road over my '07 every time. I love both trucks but the Cummins definitely doesn't like being finessed when you need to go eeeaaaasssyyy. Never had an engine growl at me when I push on the brakes until I drove my first Cummins . Cummins engines don't like to be reigned in IMO. That's why I love it too.

I think your friends are probably right, although I wouldn't go so far as to say they suck off-road. Side by side I'll take the gas engine for off-road and when I need to pull my house off it's foundation I'll use the Cummins.

Scott

This has been an informative post. I just called my dealer and made sure they used the proper filters when servicing my truck. Good to know. Thanks guys.

3/4 ton trucks are not for off roading!

I've had mine on the beach and made it work, but it is a white-knuckle ride. The load range E tires are just too stiff on soft ground. It's like a locomotive off the track! They really need to be lower pressure in the sand.

Roger that. I hate driving my F-250 diesel on the beach.

If Dodge had the allison transmission they would have the market cornered.
FWIW I just sold my 01 dodge/cummins and bought a 06 duramax. The Allison is superb and the Duramax is powerful, but doesnt have the low end torque of the Cummins.

Bulletbutt, i have had good luck with Goodyear silent armour.. I have them on a 04 ford 250.. There real good in snow and mud..

I just bought a used Ford F350 Crew Cab with all 6 new Goodyear Silent Armour tires. First look at those tires and I went oh no they are gonna be loud on the highway. Boy was I wrong. They are incredible tires! Great grip off road and as quiet as any truck tire I have ever owned.

I've had two sets on my 04 Dmax. It's a good tire. Good handling, quiet on the highway, good plonking through the sage, and good in Utah winter snow and packed roads. Only gripe is they didn't last very long. First set was gone in 28K miles. Second set was the newer Pro series, they were replaced at about 32K miles. So I don't buy them anymore.

I guess you guys are aware that Dodge has had a six speed auto available with the Cummins since 2007.5. People that have them like them, claim they prefer them to an Allison. I believe Ford's new transmission is a six speed as well.

Not downing the Allison, just informing. Altogether I would think the GM diesel pickups would be the best of the tree if you do much offroading, 1000 pounds lighter, IFS, and less low end torque to get you in trouble.

They all have problems. The Cummins is hamstrung by the poorly designed "truck" built around it. The Dodge's firewall wraps around the Cummins, and comes too close to the #5 & 6 cylinders, restricting airflow around the back of the engine, causing theses 2 cylinders to overheat, leading to piston galling. Most of the Cummins in the late model Dodges melt one or both of these pistons when they fail.
Fords 6.0 Navistar VT365 engines suffered from being rushed into the market before they were ready. The fuel systems were especially inadequate, and the turbos are too complicated for their own good. The engines are also prone to overheating, and if you do overheat one, you're stuck buying new factory heads if you warp your originals, which you will. These are expensive engines to fix.
Duramax suffers from a lot of the same problems as the 6.0L Ford. Most of the dead ones We see die because of abuse, they are a powerful engine, and many people can't seem to keep from beating the snot out of them. This is another terribly expensive engine to fix, and once again, the heads aren't generally reusable.

I sell diesel engines, and diesel engine parts, 60 hours a week. Every friggin' week. My customers are some of the most noted diesel shops in the nation. My conclusion after 20 years of this crap? Give me a late '90s Ford chassis, with a mechanical 5.9 Cummins, and a manual transmission. I'd take a 7.3 if necessary, but the 5.9 is cheaper to maintain. And I detest electronic injectors!

Wow! I didn't realize the Cummins was air cooled. All this time I thought that finned thing in the front that you put antifreeze & water into was for cooling.

Too many million mile Cummins powered Dodges on the road to lend much credence to your theory. Sorry, I can't see the logic behind your reasoning there. Diesel engines will usually melt pistons due to failed injectors. In line six cylinder engines, when overheated due to a cooling system failure, will normally sustain the most damage to the rearmost cylinders NOT due to airflow issues, but due to the fact that they are furtherest away from the waterpump, and when coolant is already superheated making it's way through the water jackets in the block, it doesn't do a whole lot of good by the time it arrives at #5 & #6 cylinders.

This is true of long in-line engines, gas or diesel.

Me too......I also thought these things were liquid cooled.

I've seen melted diesel pistons and it didn't happen from lack of air circulation.

Something I will share with those who really don't seem to know as far as what tire is good for what particular purposes. Now there are about 80 different brands of pickup truck tires out there for Off Roading, snow, mud, rock etc. If you read the information the tire people put out about their tires, they are ALL GREAT!!!

However, that is a crock of BS simply put understand! Now go to the Mastercraft web sight and you will see the various ratings of all the tires on the market. They will be classified as 1-2-3-4-5 stars as to what they were graded on etc. Some of those so called Mud Tires (large clets) are a real JOKE!!! They won't do much at all in the snow etc. and so on.

Brilliant dissertation Maestro! Bravo!!! I see by the quality of your post that you are obviously a high-end engineer or College Professor. Who am I to argue with a man of your obvious expertise? Your use of technical jargon like "furtherest" indicates a level of expertise that humbles me. It's so simple... You have it totally wrong.

Really? Prove it.

You sell 'em, I've been fixing 'em for more than 30 years........

Never did major in the English language, and your attack on my choice of words does nothing to explain why I'm wrong & you're right. Back it up with some facts, or tell me why I'm wrong.


I'm waiting.........