Anybody have thoughts on 2011 or younger diesel trucks? I've got a 1997 Dodge Cummins that I love. However, it's not very comfortable on long trips with the wife and dog. Considering buying a good used model. I'll certainly keep my Dodge.

I like the new diesels made by GMC/Chevy, Ford, and Dodge. What I'm looking for is experience and advice regarding performance and maintenance comparisons.

Thanks.

Dibs if you sell your 97

I drove one of the newer Chevy's and found them to be far more comfortable than my 2007 Cummins.

if hutsonora backs out, i'll take it

I have a 2011 Dodge 2500 Cummins. It's still a solid front axle, so it doesn't exactly ride like a Cadillac, but the fit and finish seem superior to older Dodges, and we find it pretty comfortable for travel especially with a trailer on the back or with the tires aired down to the "light" setting. I haven't ridden in one to compare, but I would think that an IFS Chevy is going to give you a bit more in the comfort factor department when it comes to ride.

Performance has been all I was looking for, however I'm not pulling max loads -- a 30 foot TT weighing probably 7,500 all up. Mine is not the HO version and seems like plenty. The new auto transmission is pretty smooth. Six speeds is good. The engine brake rocks coming down the hill with a trailer on the back.

It had one issue at first. They had to come up with some new programming for higher altitude use and until they did that under warranty, the mileage simply sucked and the check engine light kept coming on. It's two years old and has just over 30,000 miles and the gas mileage has crept up to just about respectable for an emissions impaired new truck. I get 11 to 12 towing through the mountains, 15 around town, and upwards of 18 empty from Denver to Grand Junction. That is measured. The computer reads anywhere from .5 mpg low to 1.5 mpg high of actual, generally high.

Maintenance has been minimal. Just following the schedule and there isn't a whole lot to it at this point. Fuel filters every 15K are an easy fifteen minute job. Oil changes as indicated by the computer were pretty frequent at first (2,500 to 3,000 miles), but have stretched out now to where I didn't wait for it to come on for the last one.

Haven't had a Chevy or Ford diesel to compare to, but so far so good with this Dodge. Like that there is no urea to deal with.

Does the new Cummins require DEF yet? I've heard it's coming. DEF is nothing but 2/3 water and 1/3 urea fertilizer but they sure don't price it that way.

2013 Dodges require DEF. 2010-2012 don't.

I own a 2003 Duramax that I am very happy with. If I were to buy a diesel now, I'd look for a pre-DEF without question. You may be able to find the last of a new 2012 Dodge still, if you're lucky.

In the used market, my knowledge is limited, but if it were me I would stay away from Ford 6.0 engines, even though my understanding is they can be "bulletproofed" with some aftermarket work.

2006 and earlier Duramax's don't require Urea and perform well and ride well. They sell for a premium if low mileage. A 2006 Dodge isn't too shabby either. A low mileage one will sell for nearly what it cost new.

I'd actually prefer the urea motor over the pre-DEF ones. The ones without DEF have to have their tuning screwed with so much to make the emissions regulations that they get poor fuel economy as a result. The DEF motors do better because they can adjust the tuning for better economy and still meet emissions standards. DEF is pretty cheap if you buy it at the right places.

This.

I've got a bone-stock '11 Crew, short-bx, 4x4, F-250 6.7L, 3:31. I don't really drive it around town so couldn't say what that mileage is. I recently pulled a 24' flatbed 1200mi. 600Mi empty, 600 W/a Honda Accord aboard. I ran ~80MPH the whole trip and averaged 11MPG.

Interstate system here is 75MPH so most run ~80ish.

@ ~73-75MPH with my ~3K# boat in tow I get 11-12MPG.

@ ~80MPH with just the truck I get 15-16MPG.

@ ~70MPH with just the truck I get 17-19 depending on the wind.

Fuel, oil, air, and oil filters is all I've done so far. I bought it new <100mi on it and I'm creeping up on 28K now. It's comfortable to drive and ride in, nice and quiet going down the road. DEF has been a non-issue for me despite living in ND. I keep a 2.5Gal jug @ home and make sure I'm full before any long trips and let the dealer top it off any time I get the oil changed. I was really hoping the mileage would be 2-3MPG better than it is, but 20MPG @ 80MPH isn't 3/4 pickup territory I guess. If I had any real issue it's that the fuel tank is only 26Gal due to the DEF eating up 5gal of capacity.

Thanks, guys. Not too worried about the ride, mainly the comfort of the cab. Sorry, I should have said that up front. My '97 rides very hard, though better than my '92, so that won't make any real difference to us.

I have ridden in a new Dodge and GMC/Chevy. Really liked the seats and cab of the GMC and Chevy. They seemed to ride smoother than the Dodge, but not by much.

Horse, isn't the DEF stored in a separate tank?

You are off by 5 yrs.

DPF was added in 2007.5 (LMM).
DEF (urea) was added in 2011 (LML).

That makes little sense.

Its the DPF that kills fuel economy, not DEF.

A diesel can have a DPF and no DEF but not the other way around.

I hope Chevy relocated their DEF tank. Last year we looked at a 3/4 ton 4 door long bed. They had the tank hanging 4" below the frame right behind the right front tire. There's no way it could survive even limited off road driving. A service man just happened to be standing there & he said they were staying busy installing aftermarket shields to protect them.

You either need your eyes checked or a new tape measure. The DEF tank is essentially flush with the frame.

99% of the population wouldn't take their CC long bed truck the places I take mine during deer and elk season. Its funny how the DEF tank has survived just fine.

The one we looked at was a '12. They were getting all kinds of complaints so they probably raised it for '13.

No, it's not. The DPF adds some restriction, but it's not the primary cause of poor fuel mileage in the non-DEF trucks.

DEF is used to lower the amount of Nitrogen Oxides in the exhaust. Whether or not to use DEF is up to the manufacturer, but they all still all have to meet the same standards for NOX emissions. If they choose to use DEF like Ford and Chevy in 2012 then they can tune the engine for better fuel economy and still have it meet emissions regulations. Dodge in 2012 chose to not use DEF and they were able to meet emissions without it. However, that comes at a cost which is that they had to tune the injection sequence timing in a way that wasn't optimum for fuel economy but which gave them the reduced NOX emissions that the EPA required. Going to DEF in 2013 allowed them to better optimize the programming. In other words, you can get by without the DEF but you have to burn more fuel to make the engine meet the emissions standards. If the manufacturers were free of the EPA then they wouldn't use either diesel particle filters or diesel exhaust fluid and they could give us motors that got great fuel mileage. However, that's not reality and to get a non-DEF motor to meet emissions you have to feed it more fuel than a DEF motor, thus the worse fuel mileage out of the non-DEF motor.

DPF reduces fuel mileage by 4-5 mpg. The DPF uses fuel every 350-400 miles to clean out the filter resulting in high EGTs.

Trucks with DEF have a high rate to reoccurring issues. It is a flawed system. Adding a 9th injector did little to help the emission issues.

If you want to talk about tuning, school us on EFIlive :-)

Just stay with an 07 or earlier diesel. The emissions crap make owning a diesel not worth it IMO. The mileage sucks and you pay more for fuel. Its a joke.

I would look for an 03 or early 04 Dodge with a manual transmission. The cummins engines in those years had one less injection event and came from the factory with no catalytic converter or emissions junk

Yes, but, that tank is right up against the fuel tank and there is really no more room under there for more capacity. Fuel and DEF are both accessible through the fuel fill door. Big green cap for diesel, little blue cap for DEF.

FWIW, the long-box F250/350 has a 37.5 Gal fuel tank, that would be much better, especially if a guy is towing anything heavy, fast, or both.

If I had to drive a pickup as a daily driver and had a lot of in-town driving mixed in I don't believe I'd own any of the newer diesels. Start short-tripping them and/or not getting them up to proper operating temps and I think a guy starts to experience a myriad of nagging issues that stem from the choked down exhaust systems but blossom all over within the engine. When it's below freezing here letting the truck idle won't even move the temp gauge, gotta be driving it to bring it up to temp. With the truck outside overnight @ say 10F ambient, it takes 15-20 min of driving to bring the engine and trans up to normal operating temp. Park into a stiff wind @ that temp and idle and you can watch your engine temp gauge fall like a rock.

I really do like my pickup, but, the shortest run I make with mine regularly is to shoot skeet and that's ~15mi one way, more than enough time to get things up to temp, even enough to run through a DPF regen cycle. Other than that my trips are 50mi+ one way.

Maybe I'll stick with my '97 for hauling that 5th wheel and check into upgrading the cab.

DON'T BUY A DIESEL TRUCK FROM 08-10 FROM ANY OF THE MAKES, AND DON'T BUY A DODGE UNLESS ITS A 2013 THAT HAS THE SCR SYSTEM AKA DEF.

simply put thats as simply as I can state it. SCR/DEF system has meant the auto makers can greatly dial back the EGR and regeneration events. both ford and chevy have gained back all the fuel mileage they lost with the chocked 08-10 models. my 2011 ford gets some of the best fuel mileage of any diesel I have owned including mechanical injected cummins especially when you factor the weight of the truck. The 2011 fords have proven to be very problem free from my readings and based on my experience.

dodge didn't switch to DEF because they were too cheap to update to it until recently and as a result their trucks are about 20% less fuel mileage than a comparable ford or chevy. that is a huge number to pay extra in fuel. this didn't used to be the case before 08 dodges normally got as good or better fuel mileage than the other 2 makes.

If it were me I'd be getting an LLY or LBZ Duramax, '04.5-'07.5. Ride smoother and tow way better than your '97, no comparison.

Back in December of 2005 I bought a 2006 Cheverolet silverado 2500 HD with the Duramax LBZ with the Allison transmission. I bought the truck to tow campers and farm tractors. All I can say is that truck is a beast and will tow like a locomotive. It appears that I bought a diesel truck at the right time. No particle filter and no def fluid to fool with. My best fuel mileage was 22.8 mpg on flat land. Do your research, ford and dodge claim that they have more power and torque, but it counts where the rubber meets the road. The gm drivetrain puts the torque to use and in most cases will out perform the others. Also I must say that my Chevy 2500 HD has a smooth ride.

Oh yea I must mention that my truck only has 51,678 miles on it so its going to last me a while. No new trucks with DEF for me.

LLY and LBZ are new terms to me.

How do you rate the cab features in those year Chevys/GMCs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duramax_V8_engine

The GM Duramax LBZ (engine code D) with the Allison 1000 transmission is the best of breed. That would be 2006 and early-2007 model years.

Earlier models sometimes have injector problems.

A buddy of mine just bought a new 2012, the one before the recent DEQ stuff. He loves it.

Do the research and enjoy.

Thanks, guys. I figured this would be a good place to start the research with input from those with experience.

Since my Dodge has always been so good to me, I haven't looked around at the alternatives in many years.

If you happen to be in an area with limited diesel emissions testing and can tolerate a little bit louder exhaust there is absolutly nothing wrong with the newer dodges as long as you stay 2010 and back. I drive a 2008 with all emissions junk "missing" and quite a few other mods, and while I still don't get quite the mileage of the older 5.9 cummins I manage 25-27 hwy hand calculated and 20-23 in town. Rides great and has no problems but if there was to be a problem Id feel a lot more confident under the hood of a cummins than the newer ps or dmax, not saying their not great trucks because ones just as good as the other these days but the simplicity of the cummins is still pretty close to what it has always been.

Justin.

[quote=USMCSS. I drive a 2008 with all emissions junk "missing" and quite a few other mods....... I manage 25-27 hwy hand calculated and 20-23 in town. [/quote]

Bullsh*t

My old Cummins never got that kind of fuel mileage. I see 15-18 around town. 8-12 pulling the heavy fifth wheel.

Once again, I know the majors all have the power I need. Really looking for advice regarding the cab creature comforts. The wife and I have lots of cruising planned and need something that is quiet and very comfortable on the highway. A 10 minute test drive cannot provide that information.

Thanks.

Do some research Ackman. I've done mine and I've done a lot more driving. Jump in a 6.7 with the deletes and do your own calculations. These trucks do amazing things when their not choking from emissions, hell bring your happy ass down here from utah and I'd be glad to hand you the keys.

08 ram 2500 2wd 6.7 cummins + ALL DELETES + smarty on sw7 + 5 INCH STRAIGHT PIPE= 25-27 hwy and a lot of pissed off powerstroke and duramax owners, which I assume is the catagory Ackman falls into.

Spoken like a true Cummins owner....

Last thing my happy ass would be doing is go 2,000 miles to friggin No. Carolina and drive your truck a tankful of fuel. See I also know a bunch of guys with Dodges. Some with 5.9's, some have 6.7's - my neighbor has 5 of them. Some guys with 6.7's get terrible mileage and don't like having less power, wish they'd kept the 5.9's. Guys with deletes and tune - smarty's too - don't get anywhere near 25-27 on the highway. That's bs. In their dreams maybe. I know guys who work on diesels all day long. Say you have a smarty (BFD) and 5" and get that kind of mileage - they'll laugh and roll their eyes, say "yeah right." Being pissed isn't a factor. Mine is a Dmax and I wouldn't trade it for any dodge. It's about bullsh*t.

Haha. Go [bleep] yourself... Packman and while your at it maybe you should try driving on something other than utah hills all the time and do a real calculation. Its a proven fact, and I'm sure if your neighbor had 5 cummins (bullshit) than he would tell you the same thing. Sounds to me like a typical Dmax owner (see above post.), pissed off about their broken tie rods and blown head gaskets, but hey were all cozy in our car like interior. Get a life dipshit, I came on here to make an obseration and make my opinion but your hillbilly ass decided you know everything about every diesel ever made and apparently know every diesel driver and mechanic too. Call me a lier on a public forum, ive got news for you, my life doesnt consist of getting on a forum and making up some b.s about my magic cummins. If it wasnt fact i wouldnt say it. i made an observation and anyone could agree or disagree but calling me a lier was just uncalled for.Keep your piece of mexican [bleep] chevy and call me or one of your buddies (who hate cummins so bad they happen to own 5 of them) when your bowtie is smoking blue.

1) Aww.......

2) Maybe you should try driving some mountains. Or across western Utah which is flat. Or Nevada which is flat. Maybe you should learn how to do math. Or stop deluding yourself.

3) You think smarty and a 5"pipe is some kina hot-sh*t? It's proven fact the smarty isn't hot-sh*t. And proven fact you won't get anywhere near what you're saying. Every diesel owner would love that but it ain't gonna happen. Neighbor has 8 trucks......5 Dodge, 3 Ford.

4) "Pissed off?" Dumbazz ought not be ass-uming. The "typical" Dmax owner never does to theirs what I've done to mine. And you think Dodge/Cummins don't have suspension problems? Or blow headgaskets or crack pistons? Or have at least as many problems as other trucks? Wake up.

5) I know what these things will do and won't do. Most people who've been around diesels for at least awhile know. There's no secret about this. Your magic Dodge......bullsh*t. Someone in north carolina calling anyone hillbilly is funny.

6) You used the word liar, I didn't. You can't even spell it. I called bullsh*t on your bullsh*t. Don't like that, too bad.

7) Mexican Chevy? Yeah right. Ignorant fool. Wait by the phone and hold your breath.

Such an angry little man, I've driven those mountains, I've hiked them and I chose not to live anywhere around there because of all of the [bleep]*ing idiots like you around there. I don't think a smarty and a 5 inch are hot [bleep] but I can assure an 11.21 second quarter in a "piece of [bleep] cummins" is "hot [bleep]" and mine does it quite regularly after pulling a friends 12 second mexican max to and from the track because he can't keep it running. Go to the dealership and look at american parts content on the window sticker...40% american, that's right and I'm the ignorant one? Where do you think the rest is made? Oh yea Mexico and China. Sorry to hurt your feelings but your pretty much driving and advertisment for egg roles and tacos.

* ill give it to ya, at least you got one thing right. I misspelled a word. Oops your argument was so valid that was all you had to give your 7 paragraphs some substance.

Just face it I win you lose, I'm driving american, and your driving fried kitty. Good day to you sir... and as alway GFY

You went from saying one truck is as good as the other these days, to bashing what Ackman has cause he called you out. Nice. mtmuley

haha. I know, I've been off work for too long. Just fueling the fire. As long as I keep talking sh*t Ackman will keep responding giving me lots of entertainment. Gotta pass the time somehow. Hey ackman need a tow yet?

Good one. Go back and read your own crap. An angry little man calling someone else the angry one.....a f*ckin' idiot like you calling anyone a f*ckin' idiot? Hurt my feelings? You're delusional. Your 27mpg cummins is total bullsh*t. So you want to play the I'm faster'n you game? Fine. How about 10.90's in an everyday driver/hunting truck "mexican max" BTW - check where Ford and Dodge stuff is made. And yours is gonna fall apart around the engine. And who's responding to who? Dumbazz.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but didn't USMCSS say his vehicle is a 2-wheel drive? Here in the West, that's not a truck. It's a car with a bed. mtmuley

Ackman.... once again why do you sound so anal retentive?

Hey mtmuley does the back of you throat hurt? I highly encourage you to look up the definition of "truck"

Ackman.... the truck isn't yours and you are retarded.
(Typical dmax owner talking [bleep] about something that isn't theirs)

Really guys, there's no need in throwing your laptops about a little trash talking.

USMCSS.....you poor pathetic sh*t. Yes it's very much mine. And I know guys with street driven Dmax's that are a bunch faster.

My lifted 3500 duramax running 42 inch bloggers runs through the traps at 10.4 and 125 mph (while towing a 19,000 lb gooseneck). The crazy thing is I get 34 MPG while drag racing and an astonishing 47 MPG on the open road!

TFF.

What really helps power is a big chrome exhaust tip. See a truck with one of them, you know it's got some beans. Stacks even more so.....huge power, fast, and great mileage.

Nice TC1.... Ackman, I'm really starting to like you. Can we do this every day? I'd love to meet some of your friends who are on the list of top 50 fastest duramax's with you. what do ya say buddy? Can you post a video for us? I'd be glad to send you one of mine.

Oh yeah, well my daddy can beat up your daddy. Who gives a [bleep] how fast your truck runs in a 1/4? Use your truck like a truck, not a drag car.

Use it for both. I've got a dedicated drag car as well but sometimes its fun to unhook the trailer and run the truck. And the whole argument about trucks are trucks and not for drag racing is pretty obsolete these days with the number of high performance diesel trucks on the road and at the track. Diesel are very much drag cars, work trucks and family vehicles.

You don't have to like me. I'm not your buddy.

Depends on what you want to do with it. Diesel trucks can make lots of power and be a lot of fun to drive, and still be used like a truck. The dragstrip for me is just a way to find out what it's actually got.

Anyone with a 10.9 second daily dmax is a friend of mine and I've got a lot of respect for them, that's a fast fu*king truck. And one that breaks down every other day, if companies like rbp, ats, banks and industrial injection can't build a reliable daily driven 10 second truck when they dedicate their lives and unlimited budgets to improving our sport and breaking records than you surely can't do it, and if by some crazy chance you do happen to have one in the 10s, then there is no way in hell it is as reliable as you initially stated YOUR duramax is. So which is it? Do you run 10s or is it the most reliable truck on the road? Just curious" Buddy"

It's a hobby like anything else, I get that. There's 2 reasons I don't own a diesel truck:
1-Don't tow anything that requires it
2-It would quickly become a toy...the last thing I need is something else to sink money into.

If you've got a diesel that you actually bought to do some work and decided to toy with it too great....if you bought a diesel as a toy to take to the strip...well that's retarded (in my opinion anyway)

Haha. I can somewhat agree. I myself pull HEAVY so I need the oilburner, but there are quite a few guys around here making dirt for a paycheck who's only goal in life is to talk sh*t and roll smoke on ricers and pedestrians at stoplights, those guys are retarded. If you are performance shop who's goal is to make diesels fast by all means buy one for that purpose but if you need to haul a lawnmower and a bass boat stick with the gasburner. If you've gotta have one to pull and are fine with flipping the bill when something breaks, why not do a little playing with it and make it run, and improve the economy while your at it

It's like this....nobody runs these things at full power all the time. The big tunes aren't much good for daily driving, street tires won't even begin to hold the power. The dd tune would be somewhere in the high 11's. Most of that power isn't used often either. This thing is driven just like any other truck, no burnouts from every stop. Highway speed takes only about 65-70hp. I didn't build the engine, someone else did. There's no reason a built engine can't be reliable. I know of a couple real nasty Dmax farm trucks with lots of power if they want to use it. This engine has 20K miles so far. No it doesn't break down every other day.

Mine tows occasionally but I didn't get it for that. A gas engine loses power at altitude. Going up a mountain grade my gas trucks would be screaming their guts out just to maintain 65. Diesel torque doesn't even feel the grades or altitude, you can accelerate from 65 to over 100 very quickly. Yes it's a toy and making power isn't cheap. But I don't have a boat or a Corvette.

Does my throat hurt? Yeah from laughing at the crap USMCSS is spewing. I could give a $hit less if your 2 wheeler is a drag truck. 1/4 mile isn't the measure of a rig where I live. Carry on with the chest puffing. mtmuley

Haha. Nice to see your in a good mood mtmuley. Once again look up the definition of a truck. Noone gives a sh*t what a "truck "is where your from. A 2wd is just as much a truck as a 4wd, how many long haul rigs do you see with a front diff? Are they not trucks where you live? Argument invalid. I've got 2wd and I've got a 4wd and the 4wd hasn't been driven in over a month now. Talk all the sh*t you want, if I wanted a 4wd to tow a trailer up the blacktop road I would have gotten one. Like it makes your rig better because you have an extra shifter and front diff. I thank you for allowing me to carry on with the chest puffing. I will return the favor and allow you to carry on with the nob gobbling.

You make me laugh. Your truck and my truck are worlds apart. Geographics I guess. You're truck is fast, mine goes up $hitty Montana mountain roads in the winter. The only thing I pull is 2-wheel drives out of bad spots. Not sure why you insist on the comments you use though. My throat doesn't hurt, and I'm not a nob gobbler. Again. Carry on. mtmuley

That's real true about 4wd. In snow country it's real often you'd be in trouble without 4wd. Sometimes you won't even get down the street, and times you wouldn't get home. And sure's h#ll can't get up the driveway. Hardly any 2wd trucks around here.

Here we've got just as many 2wd as 4. Most of the 4wds you see are the idiots going out and sinking their brand new trucks in mud and screwing up the road. Theres a few that actually need them and use them, but most never see 4x4 engaged. We get snow 2 or 3 days a year if were lucky and not enough to stop a 2wd with decent tires on it. Ive got 4x4 out behind the house but about the only action it sees is sucking down gas and for some reason it makes my phone ring with text messages that say "come pull me out man".

If you can find a low mileage 2007 LBZ Dmax I'd get it. They did not have the DPF but they did have a cat and the EGR. I had one and loved it wish I still had it. I currently have a 2012 F-250 with the 6.7 which so far I like it a lot.

The Dodge around that year range are good. I have some friends that have them and they like them. They are die hard cummings guys but they claim their mileage is on par with the PowerStroke and the Dmax. Mileage number range from 9-14 loaded and 15-19-21 unloaded depending on the right foot factor.Ofcourse these are stock trucks.

The maintenance cost vary from truck to truck. Example the PowerStroke holds more oil than the Dmax and has 2 fuel filters. Overall theres not much difference between the Dmax I had and the new Ford. The DEF is an added cost but I new what I was buying.

[quote=FAIR_CHASE] Adding a 9th injector did little to help the emission issues.

Where is this 9th injector at? I read a lot of information about the DPF before I bought my 2012 F250 and never seen it it any of the Tech briefs regarding DPF's.

The fuel mpg loss comes from the extra fuel injected into the engine during the regen mode and the EGR is open more during this to help raise EGT's buy raising the intake air temp. This what I have read several times. Ford's tech information reads the same. Maybe the 2012's are different from the older DPF trucks? I hope I haven't been reading inncorrect information.

9th in ejector in in the DPF. Instead of flooding the engine with raw diesel on the exhaust stroke to get it to the DPF it is just directly injected there. This prevents excess wear and tear when the raw diesel washed the oil film off the cylinder walls, and is an all around more efficient way to have a regen. At least that's the story I have been told.

The Powerstroke, DMax, Cummings does not have a injector in the DPF. If you find and look at factory diagrams they do not show it at all. The lines that you see going to the filter are pressure sensors before and after. Aslo there are temperature sensors to read temps at the filter and after. Some diesel vehicles use differentail pressure, or mileage, or gallons of fuel burned.The Ford,GM, Ram use pressure difference. From what I've read they have been doing since 07.5 (GM)and 08 on Ford on Ram.

I just found some info about the extra injector. The 2011 GM LML and newer is the only one that is using the extra injector to inject fuel into the exhaust. The 6.7 Powerstroke and the 6.7 Cummings this is why the newer PowerStroke and Cummings get better fuel economy than the older DPF trucks.

You mean this is why they get poorer mileage than non-DPF trucks. All other things equal, a DPF truck will not get as good of mileage as a non DPF truck, 9th injector or not. When talking about the 9th injector above, I was referring to LML's. I don't know how the other brands do it. If they still flood the cylinder on the exhaust stroke, that is rumored to contribute to excess fuel consumption, oil dilution, and premature wear as compared to a 9th injector system.

The newer DPF with DEF get better mileage than the older DPF truck with out DEF. Ofcousre the older non DPF trucks get better mileage than the DPF& DEF trucks for sure. I had a 07 LBZ that got very good mileage. One of my camping buddies had a 09 F-250 6.4 that got very poor mileage but Ford updated the program and mileage did improve some. I bought a 2012 F-250 Sept. 2012 and after he rode with me a few times and saw what the mileage was he traded trucks a few months later. Granted the computer mileage if off from hand calculated by 1.0 mpg high from what I have seen so far. My friend tells me his new truck gets around 3-4 mpg better than his old truck. Which most of the time mine gets 14-16 mpg rural driving and 17-19 highway running 70-72 mph.

I don't know if Ford or Ram'S method is better but the changes from their older design far as mileage goes seems better than what they had before. This is my first Powerstroke so only time will tell if I buy another down the road. However I still wish a lot of days I still had my old LBZ back. From what I have read and talking with other owners this DPF and DEF stuff has hurt all diesels no matter what brand. I currently have around 19k miles on mine so it's just breaking in good.

I was trying to offend in anyway just wanting to exchange some info.