For many years I have pulled a 20 ft gooseneck stock trailer. Age and health have crept up on me and I have sold my gooseneck trailer, and bought a 6&1/2 ft slide in pop up camper for my Dodge Cummins 2500 short box., 3:55 rear end ,5 sp. Then I bought a 3 horse slant trailer, bumper pull. Hopefully this will enable me to stretch out my hunting career and other 5 years or so.

Here are the specs: camper weighs 1500 lbs. Horse trailer weighs 3500 lbs with a tongue weight of 350 lbs. These are empty figures. Full up loaded with two mules, gear, grain, hay water ,tack, it will come up to about 7500 lbs and 750 lbs tongue weight max.

My receiver hitch says 1000 lb tongue weight, 10,000 lb trailer weight if using a weight distribution hitch.

The company that I want to buy the weight distribution hitch from says to size it correctly I also need to add the cargo load inside the truck bed that would be behind the rear axle to get the total tongue weight for the hitch.This would be approximately 750 lbs if the camper is distributed evenly.

So adding the 750 from the trailer and 750 from the camper, I get a 1500, lb tongue weight which would then indicate that I have to go to a Class IV receiver, which gets up to 1500 lb tongue weight and a 15,000 trailer and I am only half that weight with my trailer fully loaded.

I can't figure out, other than the suspension on the truck's limitations why I need to figure the camper weight in on the weight distribution system. A Class IV hitch is going to bolt into the same holes so the total weight on the suspension is going to be the same.

With the weight of the truck included I am a little over the GVWR specs of the truck itself which I am not worried about since my stock trailer loaded was over that and the truck handled it well.

Thoughts? advise? Is it correct to figure in the camper load or am I OK with my present receiver hitch?





If Ido this,the

Springs behave well when at their normal flex range so adding a good deal of nominal weight may flex them to where they under perform. To fix that you can add a helper spring, or an Air suspension kit.

I put in a Air Suspension Kit to fix that with my truck in case I filled the back with firewood, and was pulling a heavy trailer.

I bought a new camper back last summer, my old camper weighed 5700lbs dry and my new one weighs 9000lbs dry. My truck is a F-250 2012 CC SB 4X4 diesel. I had to get a larger weight distribution hitch, I got the husky center line. My lighter camper loaded did not load the truck much but the new does. The RV Dealer set my hitch with the camper dry & empty which pulled great home. I loaded the camper and ended up around 10500 and with about 500lbs of gear in the bed it screwed up the hitch set up. I had to adjust the hitch for the camper loaded and the bed of the truck loaded to level the truck out and improve the ride while pulling. The hitch was under adjusted with the truck and camper loaded to the weight I would have pulling. I ended up around 18000lbs combined loaded for a trip.

I would set the hitch with the truck loaded like its going to be used. You may have to buy some air bags or helper springs for that slide in camper too.

"I can't figure out, other than the suspension on the truck's limitations why I need to figure the camper weight in on the weight distribution system."


The added weight in the bed means more weight to distribute (rear to front on the truck) to have the truck ride somewhat level and to accommodate the added stress on the bars.

If it was not a weight distributing hitch it wouldn't matter.

Here's guide that might explain it better ...

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Weight-Distributing-Hitches-Buying-Guide-/10000000177633611/g.html

The Axle has limitations, the springs as well - then you have the frame limiation that the hitch / tongue is on.

IIRC

Axle = tongue weight + camper and 50% of truck

Spring is easy provided you aren't exceeding axle weight - it is' saggin'....

This is not good thinking, intentionally rationalizing overloading beyond the manufacturer's maximum rating.

Upgrade whatever makes sense for the safety of your passengers and yourself.

Air bags will take a big load off the springs. My camper is only a 20' but when I put a heavy steel stock rack and 4 llamas in the bed of my Dodge 2500 long bed and hang the camper behind it, it sags. The air bags will raise the hitch almost 6" and the frame at the axle about 4".

OK, Need advice on air bags/air suspension

When I bought my '08 Dodge, it already had Firestone Ride-Rite air bags installed. If you want to spend the money for on on-board compressor, you can adjust them from the drivers seat. It'll cost you more than the air bags. Mine don't have that as I don't need them often enough to justify the cost. There's an air valve on the side of the frame above each rear tire that's filled with an air hose.

The instructions say to keep at least 5lb in them at all times. They'll take up to 100lb of air which will hold more weight than your axle will (5000lb max). You still can't exceed the weight rating of the truck as the hubs, bearings, etc. can't take it. I find that about 60lb will give me all I need, even with a full load of hay. To fill them, load the truck 1st, then add air to bring them up to the correct ride height. The instructions show you how to measure them to get the right height. After doing it once or twice, it's easy to eyeball the bags to know how much air to add. It only takes a couple min to fill them but to do it at home you have to have some kind of compressor. Any shop compressor will fill them in seconds. A 12v inflator will do it but it'll be much slower. I tried doing mine once with one of those jump start units with a built in inflator. It took a very long time as they slow way down when you get much over 40 lb.
I also have a 120v tankless compressor that puts out up to 125lb. It works as fast as a tank type and I don't have to wait until the tank fills. I just switch it on and instantly have full pressure. It takes me longer to get out an extension cord than it does to fill the bags. It's very handy for small jobs like this. I got mine from my dad when he died but you can buy one for around $50.

Here's the website for the ones I have. You can go to the one that fits your truck and pull up the instructions to see what you're up against. RIDE-RITE

saddlesore take a look at a set of Timbrens.....very simple and will take care of any rear end sag and sway

as far as a weight distributing hitch , I dunno , I have pulled some beastly loads without one but I am not running in mountains

You also need to take into account front end gymnastics with a bumper pull. Maxing out a bumper load means the front end geometry can dirty your shorts quickly. It's exponential also. The further from resting geometry the quicker the steering goes ugly.

Those bigger hitches do a great job of making the load more linear from front to back. Helps eliminates the hinge factor associated with just bagging for weight. JMO

W

Ok,If I put a set of air bags on it that will level the load with the camper on the truck am I ok with the set up of the receiver hitch I have which is rated for 1000 TW and 10,000 tow weight using a weight distribution system or am I totally screwed with this trailer?

As for the truck itself,

Truck specs are :
Rear axle capacity, 6200 lb
Rear spring capacity 7500 lbs
maximum trailer weight is 10,300
GCWR is 16,000 with the 3:54 rear rend and 20,000 lb with the 4:10

The truck weighs 8800 lbs.1/2 that on the back axle is 4400,( which is very conservative as most of the weight in a pick up is forward) 1/2 the camper, is 750 lbs which makes the rear axle load 5150. If I add the loaded trailer tongue weight of 750 lb, I am at 5900. So I should be good with the axles leaving another 600 lbs for loading the camper and such.

Ditto the rear springs at 7500 capacity. So will I need the air bags even?

Am I figuring this right or ??

Air bags won't help all the rest of the over-stressed components, just the springs.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/236659-weighed-my-truck-today.html

If the truck weighs 7400 lbs unloaded ...

60% front / 40% rear = 2960 rear axle weight

Add the 1500 lb camper = 4460 lbs rear axle weight

+ 750 lb tongue load = 5210 lbs rear axle weight

+ 600 lbs gear = 5810 lbs rear axle weight

And ... I'm not suggesting that this is absolutely correct.

What's the maximum CGVWR? Truck, cargo and trailer.

FWIW, Dodge used to have a calculation sheet, based on the model truck, for determining the answers to the questions you're asking.

A google search might find it.

truck specs are as I showed above, taken right off the brochure when I bought the truck.

From that it shows that I am not over stressed in regards to springs and axles

The only thing I was questioning is the weight of the truck. 7400 lbs seems like a more realistic number.

The number you need is curb weight and not something else like GVW or GVWR.

Specs can be confusing. GVW can be the total weight of the truck, plus passengers, and a full tank of fuel. It can be a generic rating that isn't always vehicle specific when you include optional equipment like transmission choice.

I could be wrong but ...

The only way to really know what you have is to load it all up, run to the local feed store and scale it. It's worth spending the $5 scale fee to know exactly what you have.

RC. I have the weights from the paper work on the camper, truck and horse trailer and pretty much know the weights for he hay, water, grain, tack, and mules so I think I am within a 100-200 pounds or so.

I will take the rig down the road where there is a set of scales, but the only time it will be fully loaded is the day before I leave to go hunting. All other trips will b eway below the figures quoted.

Here's the online calculator for Dodge trucks.

http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/vehicle_to_weight.jsp

Hope this helps.

Unfortunately, that calculator does not show the old quad cab as it was discontinued. I have the original Dodge brochure for 1998. It shows 16,000 GCVWR for a 3:55 rear end , 4 wd and 20,000 for a 4:10 rear end. So the entire drive train would actually be rated for the greater as all they do is change out the differential gears, not axles, springs, drive shaft, clutch, etc. About all that happens is you need to pull in a lower gear on climbs. I also have an engine compression brake, so my braking power is adequate.

Relooking at that calculator, it does go down to 2002 and shows a maximum trailer tow weight of 14,700, I am way below that. Loaded,my trailer should be about 7500 lbs and probably more like 6500. Add a 1500 lb camper and I am still only at 9,000 lbs and my receiver hitch is Class IV, 10,000 lbs capacity when used with a weight distributing system

Pal said "This is not good thinking, intentionally rationalizing overloading beyond the manufacturer's maximum rating. Upgrade whatever makes sense for the safety of your passengers and yourself. "

So with the above information and the trucks rating, I am not intentionally rationalizing any over loading. I think I am good, but wanted other eyes on it to see if my figures are accurate.

I put Timbrens on my '11 F250 as it sagged with almost any load; both a 7K loaded bumper-pull horse trailer, or a steel 6-horse gooseneck at a weighed GCW of 23K.

The Timbrens helped, but under the gooseneck, they get completely compressed. I'mm probably going to put bags under this truck.



Vince- FWIW, I think you can put bags under your truck and just go anywhere with those weights.

One of the specific Dodge Truck Forums might be the best place to get good answers.

You have the drive train to pull that load and the braking to stop it.

Bags will level the load to manage stability and steering.

IMO.

Thanks, I'll probably end up putting a the weight distribution hitch on it along with inflatable bags that would give me some variation for different loads.

there could be different weight ratings for differing sets of Timbrens I suppose......my 97 Dodge 2500 sagged pretty good with a gooseneck full of cattle as it came stock......went with some Timbrens and it now runs nice and level and feels more stable ......this with loads on the gooseneck 12 to 16000 or so

also run a slide in sprayer on the back of that pickup in the summer months...1000 lbs or a little more for the sprayer and 300 gallons of water....pickup sets nice and level

I put the inflation valve stems just under my tailgate so I can pump them up without crawling under the truck. Mine only require 5lbs when I load up so I just left them there all the time.

If you go with airbags that will relieve the load/stress that's put on the weight distributing hitch ... provided the airbags hold air.

This goes back to your original question about figuring cargo load, tongue weight, and the requirement for a higher capacity weight distributing hitch.

Even if you're not towing airbags reduce body roll and level the load with a camper. I have no experience towing extremely heavy loads but airbags and WD hitch is the way I'd go.

My setup is an '08 Dodge 2500, quad cab, long bed, 6.7 diesel, 6-spd manual. I haven't weighed my stock rack but with 4 llamas, I estimate 15 to 1600lb. My camp trailer is a 70's 20' so it's heavy compared to newer ones although I haven't weighed it. The water tank is in the front so that adds to the tongue weight. I don't use an equalizer hitch.
Fully loaded, the bed sags maybe 6" at the hitch and the trailer will sway a little but not much. The stock rack is high so I get quite a bit of sway, especially when all the llamas are standing up and moving around. It's not as bad when several lie down as they usually do. Also, when hunting away from gas stations, I put a 15gal barrel of fuel in a front corner of the bed where I can siphon it into the tank. I inflate the airbags with about 60lb which brings up the rear to normal height. It eliminates most of the sway from both the stock rack and the trailer.

Here's a good question ...

Is there any downsides to airbags and a WD hitch?

I haven't found any yet.

I haven't read of any and that is the way I am going to go.Probably wait until spring though.
I plan to put the equalizer on first, load the camper ,check it, hook up the trailer check it and then load the trailer. Then decide on what air bags I want. I will probably buy the equalizer hitch with the anti sway in it.

Right now I am busy trying to make trip up in the NW part of Colorado to buy a mule. Weather is not cooperating.

Thanks guys. All the info is greatly appreciated.


Vince

Onboard compressor with the switches in the cab.

Have you looked at the Timbrens with a heavy load?

My understanding is that they are designed for year/make/model, but not a heavy vs light load in that category.

Mine level out the load and I suppose they are expected to compress the way they do. They are just bump stops +P.

No. I would just run the lines to the back of the truck. This isn't something I would use every day. Actually very infrequently. I only need them during hunting season and maybe a few summer trips.

I looked at the Timbrens, but 90% of the time, my truck will be empty, or just pulling the horse trailer with a mule or two in it. So I don't want that harder ride all the time.. They are about 1/2 the price of inflatable air bags.

Both Tembrens and air bags have their advantages. Tembrens never have to be adjusted. Put them on and forget them. Airbags need to be inflated to match the load but that's what they do - match the load. You can drop them to 5 lb for light loads or run them clear up to 100lb for hauling your wife's pet elephant.

ironbender.......no I guess I have not looked at the Timbrens when loaded up , but there must be travel left as the loaded truck does not ride rough , considering the stuff I haul


The timbren co. will tell you the truck should not ride rougher unloaded .....there should be a couple of inches clearance before an unloaded truck engages the timbrens

I think they're about like overload springs and a light load or hitting a big pothole can cause some rougher running , but I'll live with that for the simplicity and ruggedness they offer

That's the advantage Timbrens are supposed to have - they on't ater the empty ride. The exception is frost heaves on our highways!

I've been told that one needs to keep 10# or more in the bags when empty as they are subject to cold cracking if too low.

The directions on my air bags says to keep them at a min of 10lb but doesn't say why. 10 lb will keep the rear bumper raised maybe 1".

There ya go! Gotta love a little rake!

You'll see improved mileage too, cause you'll always be going downhill.

Its science.

After seeing that they have about 2 " of clearance before engaging, now after studying them, I think I will put the Tembrens on.

Then I won't have to fuss around with airing the bags up, letting it out, etc.

I have Timbrens on my '11 250, and am thinking about bags. FWIW

I didn't need to hear that.

Do you have the 5000 or 6000 lb Timbrens on your truck?

They are FR250SDF. Didn't know they had weight ratings - there's no info on that on the box. It's what six states sold.

http://www.etrailer.com/susp-2011_F...y.htm?style=&furl=-c1-4WD-pm-Timbren

Don't get me wrong, they do help. I'm not certain they are doing what I think they should be doing, in regard to steering control and handling, when they are fully compressed.

That's why I'm thinking about adding bags.

On the left of that web page, you will see 5000,6000,8000 and 12000. To the right of the picture, it shows 6000.

Vince, I put some aftermarket overload springs on my old dodge. Had some unbelievable loads on it.

http://www.maxloader.us/

Already have overloads on it, factory installed. This is a HD 2500

The question is, how much capacity do you need? Obviously you won't put 8000k on a 3/4 ton truck so are the 1800 lb'ers enough? Do they give any info on how to figure what you need? The air bags will go up to 5000k. The most I've had on mine so far is 60lb of air and that easily handled a ton of hay which is a little over the load rating. 100 lb is the max.

That was the first page that came up when I Googled my model #.

I can't find that exact model.
..............................................

Looked some more and found this info:

Model: FR250SDF
Warranty: 5 Years Limited/250k Miles
GTW: 8600
Drill: No
http://www.thehitchstore.com/rear-timbren-suspension-system-p-2512.html

I also emailed Timbren to verify the weight capacity.

Another thought - your truck may be more stiffly sprung than mine. It's suspension is more like a sedan than a truck.

Bottom line?
Timbrens may do exactly what you want/need.

Air bags WILL do what you want/need.

saddlesore.....maybe you could call up Timbren Co. and tell them exactly what you need before buying anything.......I called them prior to the install on my Dodge and found them to be pretty helpful folks

for whatever reason , my 97 didn't have any overloads at from the factory , you probably wouldn't need one of the heavier weight ratings

my son in law also put Timbrens on his 07 Dodge to keep the ride level with his heavy fifth wheel, that after he seen the way they worked out on my truck . He's real happy with the way they have worked for him .

My truck is pretty stiffly sprung. Specs say the springs are 7500 lb capacity.
If I put the bumper pull horse trailer on empty, the overloads come in contact.TW for trailer is suppose to be 350 lbs empty.

1/2 the camper weight (750) lbs will be on the back axle and fully loaded trailer will have 750 lb tongue weight, 40% of 8800 lb truck wil be 3520 lbs.
Total will be 5020 lbs on rear.

Good idea to all Timbrens. I'll do that this AM

I called Timbrens( Canada) and spoke to the tech guy. He claims if I put a set of Timbrens on( DR3500B) that I won't need a weight distribution system. It will keep the back from sagging.
Any experience here from guys that have put them on?
$295.I can get the ligther ones for $199. The thing is, I don't want to spend $550 on a weight distribution system ( Reese hitch) and the $295 or $195 on the Timbrens or air bags if one will do the trick.

I think I am on the brink of information over load.

Wishful thinking, here. Most of the camper weight will be on the rear axle.

I agree. Half of the camper is behind the rear axle. An overshot camper will shift the COG forward but there's still a lot behind the axle.

Even if I rate the entire 1500 lb camper on the rear axle, I am still only loading it 5700 lbs on 7500 springs and axels.

Both the camper owners manual and the trucks specs show the CG of the camper about a foot and a half in front of the axles.

Weight distribution hitches are a great piece of equipment. Getting rid of most of the ball/coupler up and down movement makes the truck and trailer ride much nicer.
Almost went with the timbrens, but am going to get air bags due to the ability to adjust for different load conditions.
Good luck

Just trying to get educated here, I know a lot about mules, more than a little about elk hunting and guns, but darn little about loading a truck and bumper pull trailer with camper in the truck.
Years and years ago I had a 70 Dodge 3/4 ton with an 8 ft slide in cab over camper and I pulled little two horse Stidham trailer.

Then I switched to a20 ft gooseneck stock trailer which is completely different in the loading and pulling aspect

I don't know about bags (although all I have heard is good) but I do know about WD hitches. I would get the Equalizer brand. They are durable, simple, easy to hookup, include sway control, and you don't have to disconnect anything when you back up. I wouldn't mess with anything else, and I would hate to have to disconnect a sway bar before backing up. They are a bit more than the competition, but IMO it is totally worth it.

A WD hitch can transfer load to the front axle and the trailer axel, reducing bumper sag. This may reduce the need for bags. They are adjustable, and will make your bumper pull experience very enjoyable. Spend a bit of time messing with the setup to get it right and you will be a happy camper.

I got a reply from Timbren. Mine are rated at 6000 lbs.

Thinking more about it, I have to have the WD hitch to get my receiver hitch in the proper rating.It is 500TW/5000lbs with no WD system and 1000 lb TW/10,000 lb tow weight with one.

I might have to upgrade my receiver to the next level, but hope not.
My thinking on that is the receiver is rated for the tow weight and the tongue weight of the trailer itself. When choosing a WD system, you have to add the weight in the back of the truck aft of the axle. My tow weight should be about 7500 lbs max., and the tongue weight from that would be 750 if loaded right, but the TW for the WD system would be figured at 1500 since I have to add 1/2 the camper.