How would you feel if....

You went on a 5 day guided elk hunt and the first two days were with a guide that had[/b]NEVER[b] set foot on any of the land you were hunting?



More information to share at a later date.,,,

Depends on how good the guide was. If he called in a big 7x7 that I killed, I'd feel pretty damn good.

If the guide knew elk hunting and was doing his job, it may not matter. If I got no shots at animals during the whole guided hunt, and for 40% of that hunt, I was guided by someone ignorant to some significant information, such as where the elk generally are found on the land and the best way to hunt them, I'd consider the possibility that I only owe 60% of the agreed-upon cost.

I’d feel like I hired someone who was unprepared and probably have some words with the guide/outfitter about the situation.

I have actually been "that guide" about 15 times in the last 40 years or so. In fact, the largest mule deer I ever set a client up for was in such an area and so were 4 of the 8 Desert Big Horn sheep I guided for. The largest elk I ever got for a client was in an area I had hunting before, but only for 3 days with the previous client. So having such a guide may or may not be an issue. It's about his skills and understanding of the game.

The reason to have a guide is not for him to take you to some specific animal (like a canned hunt) but to have a man who has a LOT of expertise in hunting the game you seek, in the type of country you are going to hunt in. I always preferred to hunt in areas I personally knew well, (for obvious reasons) but in some cases a man or woman wanted me to guide them and they got a tag in an area that I had not been into myself. In nearly every case was able to get my clients a shot at a good animal.

A rancher guiding you on his own ranch is an excellent way to get game or even a guide who has a place he goes every year, but with many people today, and with how game regulations are written to a large extent, with hunters putting in for several areas, you get to hunt in the area they draw for. A man who is an excellent hunter of the game you desire and KNOWS the animals habits and patters in general can and usually does a good job of getting you the shot.

So I doubt anyone could answer your question with any real certainty.

It's all about who is doing the guiding, and you can't know that until the hunt is in progress.

I’d prolly cry

I’d be thoroughly pissed. If I’m paying for a guided hunt, I expect that the guide know the land and have a plan on how to get me a shot at the animal we are pursuing. I know that that does not guarantee a shot, but I’m paying for a guide to improve the odds of a shot. Not knowing the property we are hunting is unacceptable.

It's like everything else, it just depends.

If the guide knows "elk" and the outfitter or private landowner gave him some instruction then I'd be fine with it.

I too, have been that guide and not by choice, but it was my job. Many years ago I was told I would be guiding out of the main camp , it was huge. It was one of only two areas of the troublesome I had never spent much time. The boss and his main camp guides had written in all the trails and honey holes on a 1/24,000 map which was a Godsend to me. I perused the maps most of the night. While my hunters(both men in their 70's) did not kill an elk, they both had shots 3 out of 5 days and had an enjoyable hunt! It was fun country to get to know, ( Parkview, Haystack mountain area)

Our guide on our float moose hunt in AK last year had never floated the river that we went down. BUT, he had a GPS with coordinates of past kills with the outfitter, along with other GPS coordinates of probable camping/hunting spots along the river, among other things.

So, I guess if a guide knows the animal and has been given some pertinent info. ahead of time, probably wouldn't bother me none that he hadn't set foot in the area before. It's not like a guy has to set foot in an area to quickly be able to figure out likely areas to look.

You mentioned on another thread that you paid$5k for this 5 day hunt. For that price you should have had great camp and food and a guide that could put you on animals. If you were not physically prepared to hunt in the manner prescribed for the area that is on you. Elk hunts start pre dawn and last until after dark for the average hunter. For a road hunt on private land $5k is not even an entry fee. A guided hunt should be the experience of a lifetime and an opportunity to gain insight on what it takes to accomplish the task. A good guide in a good area is worth the price of admission but the hunter must be up to the effort required. Sitting and hoping a decent bull shows up rarely works. $5k is not a lot of money for a guided hunt on private land, you should have shot a cow and learned from the experience. If your guide did not teach you to be a better hunter you got ripped off.


mike r

LVMiker

We would usually walk in the morning around daybreak for an hour or two at the most.

One morning, we walked from 6:30-7:30....then got back in the truck. I figured we were heading to a different area....nope right back to camp.

He and the other guide had to go work cattle.

Looking back, I now realize they knew there was no reason to hunt longer.....they knew the elk weren’t there.

I'd feel like I had not researched the outfit as well as I should have or spoken with a number of references, both successful and not.

You are exactly right! I should have done more.

How do you go about speaking to references that did not kill an elk? The references come from the outfitter and I assumed they would all be positive.

Like on a resume.....why would you give a reference that would be negative?

Just like on a resume, you don't stop with the references you're given, you find out who the person's supervisors were and talk to them.

If you ask an outfitter for references that didn't punch their tag and he won't give you any, that would be a red flag in my opinion.

Unless it's the kind of operation where everyone punches their tag. That would be a red flag too.

My opinion is that you could drop about any competent, experienced hunter that knows elk habits and tendencies into an unfamiliar area and in short order they would find them. So as others have stated, it really depends on the competency of the guide.

I would be pissed and I've had it happen to me. Don't worry, there will be a bunch of guys along to state that you are a lousy hunter, that you didn't do your homework in selecting a guide and you are a crybaby for actually expecting something for your $1000/day hunt!

When I first saw he paid 5k for a private ranch hunt with a guaranteed bull. I chuckled. Maybe 10 to 15 years ago possible. Thats about 40 to 50 per cent less than similar hunts. Big red flag. You could have salvaged the hunt with a nice cow and used your experience, printed out maps in preparation in case you saw elk and take notes where you saw them ( if you had an open mind) and come back and do DYI public land hunts in many western states. Not one word of the beautiful country you had the opportunity to experience.

For some reason people that hunt whitetail deer in the mid west east coast think they can just come out west and shoot an elk.

My cousin by marriage runs a business out of SE Idaho (Rexburg area) where you can go and pick a trophy bull out of his private herd down in the valley, and he will cart it up into the mountains onto some private forest land, where you can then "hunt" it. I can get anyone interested prices and other info.

I have a budget of 2 k. What can you set up for me? You did say a 100 per cent guarantee right?

To begin with.....:I am completely aware of my ignorance of elk hunting

As far the beautiful country, there was trash all over the areas we hunted, junk piles, and carcasses(domestic and wild) on every walk we took. Beer cans, glass, oil containers, gas containers, cigarette butts.

When I read 80-90% success, I ignorantly believed it. I wasn’t expecting a giant. I was hoping to at least see a bull.

If I had known more....I would have shot the cow but we were exactly half way through the hunt and I was being told the elk travel a lot and there was a chance at a bull.

I suppose the "guarantee" has to do with whether you can boil water without burning it. I honestly don't know what Jeff charges. I don't think 2 grand will get you very far. I believe he caters to rich guys from the coasts who want the man points and the mount to go with them. I've seen the herd. Good looking elk. The whole concept is so laughable to me on its face that I don't even know how to make jokes about it. But the business has been going for a while, and he was already very wealthy through real estate deals before he started it.

Holy Schit! Is that actually a thing?

Yes. I know, right?!

I have had both. One guy in the Selway-Bitteroot area was completely clueless on hunting elk up in the back country. He did not know the area at all and was always worried about getting lost. It was the early days of GPS and thankfully I had one on me. It helped us get back to camp every night. I complained to the outfitter and he switched us out with another guide. My previous guide was put on packing duty to get the meat down to the airstrip to fly it out. I was nice about it saying that the guide was a nice guy but I should not be the one "guiding" us. I was a fairly proficient elk hunter at the time. I ended up with a decent 5x5 with the second guide.

The next was on a ranch. While he was new to the area, he was great hunter and just fun to be around. I had several chances but was waiting for a mountable 6x6. I was clear about it from the beginning. I went home empty handed but had a great time, ate well, and loved every minute of it!

Maybe let him shoot a calf in the corral? and let him do all the work?

That might work, but my aunt would complain. The herd resides in some high-fenced river bottom land right behind her house. As in she can sit in her kitchen and watch them mill around less than 30 yards away.

If I hired a guide the main value would be for his knowledge of the area. I usually see elk here at first light, or there at last light. The elk tend to move from here to there, so we can set up along the travel route. This is a great bedding area in thick cover uphill from this feeding area, so we need to be here well before first/last light.

I’d want my money back.




P

I hunted first permit elk this year in Colorado, 2400 acre ranch in Hamilton, Colorado. Outfitter lived on the ranch, I've hunted this ranch before when his brother guided on it. I killed a 6x6 bull (my biggest) on the first evening. My buddy killed a big 5x5 the next morning, the other two guys from Minnesota killed a broken 5x5 and a cow for 100%. Food and cabin was good and the guides were the owners son and son-in-law, $3600, no need to spend $10K. There is some expectation that there are elk on the land that you are hunting and the guides know the property, that's what you are paying them for!


If you went to a 5 Star restaurant that had great reviews and you got a lousy meal with bad service, what would you do?

https://youtu.be/i41rzu_ptVA

How did your contract read regarding "I'd want my money back"?

Nothing in the contract.....here is a text exchange and I now know I should have asked for more details of a discount and had it in the contract....

Why does your Montana hunting guide have a New Mexico phone number?
It seems pretty obvious you got suckered.

The hunt was in New Mexico

Whoops. Sorry, I thought you had said it was in MT.
Still seems like you got taken advantage of.

I certainly don’t expect skilled folks to work for peanuts; I don’t myself. Seems like $5,000 is rock bottom for a guided outfitter hunt these days. Considering some of the experiences I hear about, I would not book a guide unless I personally knew a few folks that had used them in recent seasons. Life is a crap shoot like buying used cars.

After looking at your outfitter's site, I would say that the expectations that were set, 80-90% success on 5x5 or better bulls, were very high and probably not realistic unless there was something about the land that would draw and keep the animals there. I wouldn't have shot either of the cow elk that you saw, as I'm more interested in the antlers than the meat, plus shooting the cow would take them off the hook for their feeble attempt to put you onto one of those 5x5 bulls that 80 to 90% of their hunters tagged.

Me too. Well, not 15 times, more like four or five times. When that happened I would show up a couple days early and do a walk-about and/or drive-about with the outfitter, or the rancher, or another guide who was familiar with the area. The first year I set foot on a ranch in New Mexico I went three for three in 5 days for ARCHERY clients--all spot and stalk. Needless to say, there's always some luck involved........

Good grief..........

Do they remove the required ear tag before you shoot it? The hole in the ear should be a giveaway.

Dunno if someone mighta already said it.
Maybe ask on here about good ones people have been with....

Just saying.....

Giveaway for what? YOU PICK OUT THE BULL IN THE HERD IN A HIGH FENCE AREA FIRST.

It sounds like an honest operation (in Idaho, not New Mexico).....just cheesy as hell. No need to "hide" the ear tag or even the hole in the ear, as the client knows it is not a wild bull, because he picked it out of a corral earlier.
The tags I have seen are nothing more than livestock ear tags, which have a pin hole punched through the ear. You'd generally not notice it unless you parted the hair actually looking for it.

I worked on a high fence elk ranch in central Idaho for a season. It was fun, but the clients were pathetic. There was zero difference between killing those elk and killing a black angus out in the timber. It was their money though, so I had no issues with it. I actually enjoyed working there.

I’d feel like I better walk my ass off on day three to locate some elk, and hope the guy that’s following me around can carry a heavy pack.

May as well buy a few cryo packs of beef and a set of antlers off of eBay at that point. IMHO.

But then you didn't take your 338-378 out and knock an elk down with it.

This is what I did. My normal guide had to leave mid hunt (wife having their first child). Outfitter gave me a beginner guide, not much experience in either elk hunting or the area. After one day, I had a conversation with the outfitter (it wasn't my first hunt with his outfit). Had a great guide for the rest of the trip.

I'd hate to hire a guide. I sure don't mind guiding my buddies to good blacktails but no way could I hire a guy to take me to game. It would just seem weird to me.

Think of the poor guide.

This would be my first reaction, but like was mentioned, if the guide could get me a shot, then that would change my mind. I would want someone familiar with the area at the very least. I generally don't use a guide and scout the area on my own, but the question was in regard to a guided hunt. .

If it was on a property that actually had elk on it, and the guide knew how to hunt elk it wouldn’t be a problem. They aren’t hard to kill for those who understand them.

Some friends of mine and me paid for a drop camp in the Flattops Wilderness in Colorado. I noticed on the way to camp we were passing up allot of fresh elk sign. The camp was high enough the elk had already started down and if we would have been hunting on our own we'd have taken that elk sign into consideration and camped where we could have hunted that area. As is was we had a camping trip in an awful camp, tent was rotted and had a hole in the roof big enough to throw a cot through. The outfitter left as soon as we paid him, in advance. My point is that if you hire someone you give up quite a bit of control over the hunt. I'd rather be on my own.

There are good and bad outfitters.
Demand references and call them all.

I wouldn’t care if a guide took me to an area he or she had never hunted but they better damn sure show me why we are there. Can’t forget that most guides love to get a nice bull too & share those photos of success. Have faith until other factors come into play. If you’re on the move, in search of viable country, that’s a good thing. I’ve killed several bulls in areas that others weren’t killing or seeing anything (Bitterroots). To me, it’s all about knowing the animal and observing the tiny, tiny details.

My .02