First off, I'm not a head hunter at all. For me, it's all about dinner. My brother however, is the opposite. He and his small group of like-minded hunting partners obsess over the horns and I kid him at times to show me his camouflaged tape measure.

So, apparently the 300-class (whatever that means) elk on his wall of dead is no longer good enough so he and a hunting partner are headed somewheres next year where a 330-class elk "is definitely a possibility".

Here's what I've not heard of before - apparently my brother and hunting buddy don't bring rifles or ammo to hunting camp. Instead, they'll be using a couple of the outfitters super-duper rifles that wear cans on the end and are mounted with scopes tailored to the cartridge - 300 PRC. I guess they show up a day early and spend it familiarizing with the rifles out to 500 yards. Then they head out to elk camp. The outfitter also provided them instructions on how to prepare at home using their own rifles.

Wow. That's a new one for me. I know of African hunts where rifles and ammo can be provided, but this is the first I've heard of in the States.

I don't know how common it is, but if they're in wide open country and they need to be able to make a 500 yard shot, it sounds like a good idea for the outfitter to provide rifles that he knows are up to it, and that he and the guides have the dope on.

An experienced LR shooter with his own dialed-in rifle can get a beginner set up and hitting at 500 pretty quickly.

Agreed. I'm thinking it's the outfitter's take on how they can best help their customers be successful.

How much does this cost? Frankly, I don't wanna know...

In my mind there’s a world of difference between being the hunter and being the shooter.




P

Never heard of this. 330 class bull or not, If I can’t use my own rifles, count me out. I always take two rifles on my elk hunts, and unless both of them become unusable, which would fall into the epic problems range, I’m running what I brung. Only exception would be a couple of my closest hunting buddies rifles that are on the same trip, and if I’ve shot them multiple times, then in a pinch-yes. Rental cars yes, rental golf clubs yes, rental rifle nope. Just my .02

Doc_Holidude

If you're being guided to an elk, what difference does it make whose rifle you shoot?

They are gonna pay to go elk sniping not elk hunting

To those who it wouldn’t matter for, that’s great. In my mind, the hunt actually starts with the preparation for the hunt, which includes time at the reloading bench. Since I started reloading in 1989, I have not harvested a single big game animal with factory loaded ammunition or with a rifle I didn’t own. If I changed that for a “higher class scoring trophy” I personally would feel a bit like I’m selling out. To me, it does make a difference. Again, to those that it doesn’t…rock on.

I borrow rifles on all my overseas hunts just to avoid the red tape with airlines and firearms control, but this is the first I have heard of a US outfitter tailoring hunts specifically around a given rifle.

Odd, but if it sells and is legal, rock on.

I friend of mine did the same type of hunt in New Mexico. But for Mule deer. The outfitter provided 338 lapuas for the two hunters due to the expected long range presentation. Glen for a trophy Mule deer at about 600 yards. The shot was accross a canyon and they could not get any closer. At the shot, the MD turned on the hill side. Glens trigger break was broadside, by the time of the impact the deer had turned, the bullet striking the the deers spine. The bullet chewed up about 20 inchs of the spine entered the back of its head and exited from the deers face. The trophy deer was mess. Similar type of hunt with supplied rifles.

338 lapua on Mulies. Wow.

That's outstanding. Do you think everyone should do it like you do, or enjoy the same aspects of the hunt that you do? Obviously not, so why answer a question that wasn't asked?

Oh, my apologies sir…I thought I saw a question somewhere in this topic about whether it mattered whose rifle got fired at trophy elk. It’s possible I mis-read what I read. With that being said, if I offended anyone by saying that it mattered to me that it does, or that in doing so, I “spoke out of turn” so to speak, then again all apologies. 😎 Happy hunting!

Doc_Holidude

A couple friends guide for a local outfitter/rancher with big elk and lots of open country. Every sport that brings their own rifle gets a little range time before the excursion. The guides bring out their rifles too.

After a couple shots on the 500yd gong, most of the sports end up trying the guides' guns. Most of the elk are then shot with the guides' guns.

So, I would say that the practice is becoming more common, as guides realize it is easier to get a sport on a solid rest farther out, than it is to get the sports close enough to flock shoot the herd.

No apologies necessary, it's an open forum. I don't think you mis-read the question, I think you just wanted to insert your opinion. Like so many threads on here where a guy asks a simple question and 90% of the replies have nothing to do with his question. Especially when the reply has to do with the righteousness of "how I do it."

I'm with Doc, I use my rifles on all my hunts including Africa, personal choice. A couple of years ago I was looking for a New Mexico rifle hunt and a co-worker recommended his archery outfitter. The outfitter didn't have any rifle openings but asked me if I wanted to go on a muzzleloader hunt for elk. Them he asked if I had a muzzleloader that could shoot 500 yards and I said "no", my TC Omega is good for about 150 yards. He said I could use his special long range muzzleloader. It was a nice offer but I passed.

A muzzleloader at 500? I'd have passed too.

A buddy of mine has a custom muzzleloader and he's done the work to make it possible. It ain't your Granddaddy's Hawken. He posts here so maybe he'll chime in.


Okie John

I hunted with an outfitter in the US who offered to let me use one of his guide's rifles that had been set up like this. I tried it and couldn't get a hit at 300 with it using the exact dope he had given me. Then I grabbed my own rifle and rang steel far enough to prove that I didn't need to borrow one.

If their rifle had worked for me, I might have used it.


Okie John

Smokepole,

I appreciate your words. I think we all insert opinions, before, during, and after any answers to the original poster’s questions…

A muzzleloader at 500? I’d have passed too. 🙂

Doc_Holidude

Several firearm and optics manufacturers offer a "guide" discount. If nothing else, this is a good way for an outfitter and/or the guides to add some value back to the manufacturer. At least some of the guided guests are going to buy a setup like their guides (or possibly from their guide after season) after shooting a rifle with all the kinks worked out. There's plenty of places in the US that it's just plain hard to find a spot to shoot your own rifle past 100-200yds without driving 1/2 a day or more to do it. That being the case, how many are going to do that often enough to get and remain proficient? Throw in the current component shortage and the number of folks shrinks again.

A day spent shooting prior to the hunt probably also helps some folks scratch that trigger-finger itch prior to getting excited and shooting an animal that ultimately doesn't measure up to the billing and winds up in a whizzing contest with the guide/outfitter over some inches on a tape measure. I'm sure it helps to build some camaraderie and trust with the guide/hunters before the hunt starts as well. There's a awful lot that can get sorted out on the equipment and guided hunter's abilities aspect before the target critter is in the scope with a day of shooting before the hunt begins. Things like, "Yes, I'm in good enough shape to hunt elk at altitude." And you find out that the hunter is in great shape to walk, but, has had their neck fused and can't shoot a rifle prone, whoops, that never came up. And, and, and, and, etc, etc, etc.........

Personally, I'm more of a mind similar to Doc Hollidude in that I'd rather use my own equipment that I'm familiar with and have verified multiple times over. That said, I have multiple places to shoot out to 600yds under 1hr drive and I can shoot to almost a mile with a ~90min drive. I suspect there's more guided guests who embrace the idea vs. those who refuse.

I'm shooting my own gun. I'm the weak link not my equipment.

Could stay home and the guide will shoot the Elk for you. My hunt my rifle and my money my way.

There is a place close to here where all equipment, a suppressed 300, is provided and a 3 day elk hunt is 12,500 $. with a possibility of a 330 bull . You get delivered to a hot dog shack looking blind well before light wait til daylight and shoot, all with ev powered utv,. Quiet and unobtrusive keeps the elk on the edge of the hay fields all season. Its a guided shoot more than a hunt though.....

Agree 100%. All my elk, antelope and deer have been shot with my rifles and ammo that I loaded. That’s a part of the hunt for me. Others may do as they please.
I would not be interested in going on a state side hunt where the outfitter provided the gun and ammo and it was a long range sniper shot.

So it sounds like so far less than a handful have even heard about this kind of guided hunt offering. That's what I was wondering...

Having dependable accurate rifles available for clients is a value added service. Many less experienced hunters who aren’t avid shooters & reloaders committed to making their rifles dead nuts would benefit.

I’ve killed a few elk missed by the outfitted hunters hunting the fields below steep public land - not sure how many of them would have been helped by ready to go guide rifles.

The new wave of “curated” experiences that are growing more popular just seem to cross most activities now. I’m sure the old Elmer Fudd is coming out in me but we seem a less capable more decadent society not willing to make the effort even to enjoy ourselves.

DIY elk hunting has so many challenges to be successful & even more once you have succeeded i think of it as a tremendous character builder that affirms you can overcome significant obstacles. Most guided hunting has plenty of challenge including setting up an accurate rifle but it’s not my money so if people want a “super rifle” it’s certainly better than wounding & losing elk.

Travel with firearms has become such a pain in the butt, it's become common for us to provide, rifles shotguns for our hunters, and it has not changed their success rate on birds and big game.
The few that bring their own guns are usually flying private planes. Rio7

Rio I’m surprised- I would have expected the big game success to improve with solid accuracy & the shotgun success to decline with unfamiliar fit of gun to hunter.

mant times these hunts are just out a truck on a old dirt 2 track road to a rancher alfalfa field at 1st light ,guide says there they are whole herd of elk ,don`t slam the door shoot right off the hood of the truck. about 250 yards out there . then its nice shot sure was a fun hunt ! believe me i have watch this happen plenty from up high when i was waiting for the elk herd to come up to me that i climbed up too on Federal land. its a real chit show when this happens . i have seen it in Wyoming and Montana happen for elk ,deer and antelope many times with guides for easy money from non-residents.

I grew up and live in some great elk country with elk in my pasture almost every night. I'm not a guide but my sons and I have taken quite few elk over the years and have taken a few folks on hunts that either I knew or had met through mutual friends or through my bird dog hunting. Like I said I'm not a guide but the of the few that I have taken at least 50% of them showed up either under gunned, over gunned for their capability, not sighted it, or didn't know how to handle their own gun. Even had a "experienced" guy miss terribly twice at 75 yds with a rest, come to find out he was shooting 7mmMag cartridges out of his 300Mag....he says an honest mistake of "just grabbed the wrong boxes of ammo as they all look the same" excuse. Then after he went out and "checked out" his rifle he missed again at another 75 yd shot.

So I can see why some guides may want to furnish the equipment. Unless its a real good friend I don't take anyone elk hunting anymore, in fact I wont even tell them a good place to go except down the highway.

BTW, I don't let anyone shoot elk in my pasture, not even me or my sons. Had some bad experiences there also.
Here's a pic of my pasture.

specneeds, We spend a lot of time on the range with Rifles and Shotguns, getting our hunters Safe and comfortable with their guns. some times we have to go thru a few shot guns to find a gun that works for a bird hunter, we only use O/U, no pumps or semi auto's. Rio7

IMO it sounds like an outfitter who just got tired of clients brining "ol trusty" 270's with Loopys on em and whiffing on elk they worked to put them on or shooting them in the guts or ass and tracking them for days and dealing with "it was dead on 4 years ago when I checked it!"

The crew at Gunwerks was popping antelope at 700 yds+ with a muzzleloader.

Rio you are doing a fine job then on the range. But now that you mention it I’ve shot a Citori for a long time that I’ve meant to have the stock fitted think it’s about 1/4-1/2” too long. Some days I shoot like it is poorly fit & some days you’d think I can really shoot so a close fit on a nice O/U is probably fine.

Rifles with good scopes properly sighted in should be good to 300 yards - is that a client limitation or do you evaluate range performance & make the call?

From my reading of different individuals' posts on another site, this practice is becoming more prevalent. Too expensive for my meager financial rations, but many seem to be able to afford it.....And after further thought it certainly takes the hassle some have for flying around the country with their arsenal. More than one hunter we catered to years ago had problems with the airlines, and one knucklehead forgot his rifle altogether!

specneeds, Most of our big game animals are taken within 250 yrds, the biggest problem we have with rifles is EGO, we will offer a .243, .270, 300 win mag, we have found, the bigger the chamber the more problems we have, most think they can shoot the heaver recoil rifles, so we have to talk them into taking a step down when we see they need to, something they can handle.

Shotguns, need to fit the shooter, we only use O/U they are safer, than pump or semi-auto, in the field, we can see a brake open action is open, and unloaded at a glance, not so with the other actions. we have a large selection of shotguns. keep in mind we are hunting Quail, and shooting Dove, not big heavy birds. Rio7

If you go to a dance with a girl, what difference does it make whomyou dance with

This is very true, as I've set up rifles for friends, with etched reticle scopes. Getting hits out to 500 yards, on 6" diameter rocks, was simple and quick.



But, when the wind starts blowing................suddenly, the rocks are pretty safe. On big game, there is no way they should take that shot. Unless they hunt elk where the wind doesn't blow (insert sarcasm icon here).

Andy3

I once had a hunter show up on a sheep hunt with a model 99 in 300 savage, His favorite rifle!. After my initial shock and making sure his rifle was sighted in at 100 yards we left my base camp for the spike and this hunter showed me he trained for the hunt and knew how to shoot. We got close and he killed his Dall with his lever gun. That was a hunt I won't soon forget!
This long range BS is nothing more than feeding the " hunters " ego. That outfitter should loose his license over un-ethical behavior towards the game animal.
What those long range clowns do shows they have no regard for the animal and it disgusts me.
Find the animal make a stalk and take the animal cleanly.......That's hunting.
Littlejohn

So, dating a girl and shooting a rifle are the same then.

If you have to shoot game at 500 yards you need to take a class “Hunt 101”.

You sir are no rifle looney.

So, how many of these guys have had a really good bull at 200 yds but had to spend an hour sneaking back to 500 so they'd be able to brag?

Every time this subject comes up the self appointed arbiters of all hunting ethics show up and tell us how we should be doing it... but what it really tells us is that they aren't capable of being prepared for a long shot if it becomes necessary .

Hitting a pie plate sized target at 500 yards is not something most hunters I know can do, especially in field conditions. I can't remember, EVER, seeing someone at a rifle shooting range, shooting a hunting rifle in any position other than sitting at the bench. An option that does not exist in the wild. And most rifle ranges don't go beyond 100 yards which is even more reason to question a hunter's ability. The factory drop numbers on the ammo boxes are a great place to start your hold, but hardly close to reality. Laughable if that's your solution to long range shooting on a game animal. While I understand their premise, it would be a deal breaker for me.

I know several elk guides who bring their rifles to the obligatory range time, the night before the hunt begins. The way the story goes, the client's new mountain rifle is off, can't hit the 4x8 sheet of plywood the 200 yard target is on. The guide says, you want to try my ____? They dial it and then start moving them onto the 400 yard gong.

I know one 7 mag that has killed hundreds of elk, in different clients hands.

I don't think the gun is offered as an option in the hunt, but I guess it works better for everyone?

Huh, never heard of it before but the more I think about it, if I were a guide I think it would be a great idea.

Guess I don't see the problem? What's the difference between that and shooting deer off a food plot from an elevated clubhouse?

That's why people spend money, often big money, on a hunt - to increase, if not guarantee, their chances for a shot at a nice animal.

If you want a hardy hunt, and likely see less game, then do yourself a DIY.

For me, I've spent my life doing it the hard way, might be nice to take one the easy way.

It would be nice to have a rifle waiting for me when I travel to hunt. Pain to fly with one.

When people come hunt with me they most often use one of my rifles, backpacks, and gear. Just dig through the pile and take what you need

I don't think that kind of guided hunt is very common.