Scenario: You're hunting Elk with the only rifle you own, an accurate 25-06 loaded with 115 Berger VLD started at 3135 fps. You have a very nice 6x6 Bull across the canyon at 400 yards, no detectable wind, and not enough daylight left to attempt to get closer. You taking the shot? Or letting him walk
This is your shot angle.. Post your thoughts, I'll post the decision that was made after a while.
EDIT:
Here is the full video. This is my youngest boy (18) on the gun. Featherweight6555 absolutely nailed it!
I'm gonna hold for bullet impact @ about 4:30 (oclcock ) right on that dark brown to light brown transition area. The if my aim is true I'm getting out my skinning knife. YMMV. Flame away.
I'm in the process of working up a load for my 25-06 with the 115vld.
What powder are you guys using ?
TIA
I've had good results with both Retumbo and IMR 8133. Sadly IMR 8133 is no longer available. I saw the 115 VLD average 3199 fps with good accuracy from IMR 8133.
1st i don`t hunt with a 25-06 and never will i have 257 Weatherby mag. rifl, my handloads and with a my bi-pod on my rifle prone or sitting 400 yards is a easy shot on a big animal with my rifle. i use 103 gr. Hammer bullets at 3680 FPS average . i am basically 500 FPS faster, but a 25-06 is still a fine cartridge for some hunters to use. Pete53
My friend in Rapid City, South Dakota hunts elk with his 25-06 loaded with 117 grain Nosler Partition bullets. He has never lost an animal yet but his shots are always less than 250 yards. Your scenario of 400 yards is an extremely long shot even for a skilled rifleman. I would pass up because of the distance.
My elk rifle is a Savage 99 in .308 and I've had very good luck with 180 grain Core-lokt ammo. Longest shot for me was about 225 yards.
About a foot below his chin would break the spine where it goes in between the shoulder blades. However, it's only a 115 gr bullet and canyons often have unfelt wind currents. A couple inches to either side would be a disaster.
Assuming I can get a good prone position, my shot placement would be right up that left front leg to about mid-body. Which very well might mean the front of the scapula is in the way. May or may not be an issue. He looks alert — ready to bolt…or is he going to calm down and go back to feeding in a moment or two…I’d hesitate a bit to see if he moves more favorably.
Then confirm wind one more time.
All hypothetical as I wouldn’t be elk hunting with Bergers as a first choice.
I would with a TTSX or Accubond but not with the Berger. I have seen first hand what they do when they hit bone and it is messy to say the least. That was on antelope. Elk are far tougher than antelope.
Assuming I can get a good prone position, my shot placement would be right up that left front leg to about mid-body. Which very well might mean the front of the scapula is in the way. May or may not be an issue. He looks alert — ready to bolt…or is he going to calm down and go back to feeding in a moment or two…I’d hesitate a bit to see if he moves more favorably.
Then confirm wind one more time.
All hypothetical as I wouldn’t be elk hunting with Bergers as a first choice.
Even if I were using my 338 Win. mag with suitable bullets I'm not so sure that's the shot I'd take. Assuming away any penetration issues, from the shot presentation in the picture it seems to me that point of impact would have the bullet traversing the "chest innards" farther back than I'd prefer. I'd like to land it a bit left, closer to where the dark collar meets the tan.
I would with a TTSX or Accubond but not with the Berger. I have seen first hand what they do when they hit bone and it is messy to say the least. That was on antelope. Elk are far tougher than antelope.
There's a lot of merit to this. I like the VLD, but not sure that a 115 gr Berger VLD is the right choice for bull elk quartering towards.. Might end up hitting the shoulder bone, and I'm not sure that the Berger is going to provide enough penetration... I would feel better about the Barnes TTSX in this situation.
OP edited with the video and a pic. There was never any doubt as to whether or not we take the shot, I've seen what those little Bergers do when they are placed in the chest cavity, and yes, they will break an elk shoulder.
OP edited with the video and a pic. There was never any doubt as to whether or not we take the shot, I've seen what those little Bergers do when they are placed in the chest cavity, and yes, they will break an elk shoulder.
I saw the dark collar twitch right at the 12 second mark. Where exactly did the bullet enter?
Along time ago (1994) I had roughly the same shot on a 6x6 bull a little more quartering on slight angle downhill at 140 yds. I held for a spine shot that took out several vertebrate and dropped the bull on the spot. I was shooting a m70 300 win mag and 180 gr npt's. Congrats to your son but you shouldn't be teaching him stunt shooting, that's how I see that shot with a 25-06. You asked..mb
OP edited with the video and a pic. There was never any doubt as to whether or not we take the shot, I've seen what those little Bergers do when they are placed in the chest cavity, and yes, they will break an elk shoulder.
I saw the dark collar twitch right at the 12 second mark. Where exactly did the bullet enter?
Yep, right at the color change, halfway up the chest.
OP edited with the video and a pic. There was never any doubt as to whether or not we take the shot, I've seen what those little Bergers do when they are placed in the chest cavity, and yes, they will break an elk shoulder.
I saw the dark collar twitch right at the 12 second mark. Where exactly did the bullet enter?
Yep, right at the color change, halfway up the chest.
I figured that location would give a good track through the "chest innards" given the presentation angle.
Scenario: You're hunting Elk with the only rifle you own, an accurate 25-06 loaded with 115 Berger VLD started at 3135 fps. You have a very nice 6x6 Bull across the canyon at 400 yards, no detectable wind, and not enough daylight left to attempt to get closer. You taking the shot? Or letting him walk
This is your shot angle.. Post your thoughts, I'll post the decision that was made after a while.
EDIT:
Here is the full video. This is my youngest boy (18) on the gun. Featherweight6555 absolutely nailed it!
I would crush him where he stood, just like your son did with that combo. With a prone rest, that is a slam dunk shot. Zero issues. Most have never shot a VLD into a big game animal, likely many commenting on this thread I suspect....
Great job all around in that video. Super congrats....
Scenario: You're hunting Elk with the only rifle you own, an accurate 25-06 loaded with 115 Berger VLD started at 3135 fps. You have a very nice 6x6 Bull across the canyon at 400 yards, no detectable wind, and not enough daylight left to attempt to get closer. You taking the shot? Or letting him walk
This is your shot angle.. Post your thoughts, I'll post the decision that was made after a while.
EDIT:
Here is the full video. This is my youngest boy (18) on the gun. Featherweight6555 absolutely nailed it!
I would crush him where he stood, just like your son did with that combo. With a prone rest, that is a slam dunk shot. Zero issues. Most have never shot a VLD into a big game animal, likely many commenting on this thread I suspect....
Great job all around in that video. Super congrats....
i have used Berger VLD bullets on big game with my rifle cartridge a 257 Weatherby mag. is to fast for that brand bullet, > Nosler Partitions , Swift A-Frame and Hammer bullets have worked better for my rifle cartridge on big game . but congrats to the hunter !
I personally have had less than desirable results with bergers and elk shoulders but they sure work well for some people, yourself included so rock on.
Big congrats to your son. That is bigger than my biggest bull.
Hard to argue with results like that. What did the post-mortem show for damage?
Soup innards, likely shrapnel exits. Busted both shoulders or at least entry dependent on angle. Entire gut cavity filled up. No heartbeat 20 seconds after shot.
Scenario: You're hunting Elk with the only rifle you own, an accurate 25-06 loaded with 115 Berger VLD started at 3135 fps. You have a very nice 6x6 Bull across the canyon at 400 yards, no detectable wind, and not enough daylight left to attempt to get closer. You taking the shot? Or letting him walk
This is your shot angle.. Post your thoughts, I'll post the decision that was made after a while.
EDIT:
Here is the full video. This is my youngest boy (18) on the gun. Featherweight6555 absolutely nailed it!
I would let one rip. Thats a 25-06 doing what it was intended to do, and so is the well trained shooter, Very well done both of you!!
I was too a little hesitant on a 25-06 and elk. It is not the caliber I would choose for a full time wapiti whopper, but in open country, long range where one can be absolute on shot placement....zero flies on the 25-06 with bullets intended for big game.
Seen it done first hand by my wife with looked to be less light than the video. We shot 100 partitions killing elk with a single bullet but have moved up to the 110 accubond because of availability at the time.
Scenario: You're hunting Elk with the only rifle you own, an accurate 25-06 loaded with 115 Berger VLD started at 3135 fps. You have a very nice 6x6 Bull across the canyon at 400 yards, no detectable wind, and not enough daylight left to attempt to get closer. You taking the shot? Or letting him walk
This is your shot angle.. Post your thoughts,
I'm letting him walk. Even if it works, as it apparently did, there are way too many things that can go wrong leading to crippling and losing an animal with the specific conditions you list. Kid seemingly did everything right but he still only had a 50/50 chance of good results. I'll offer my heartfelt congratulations but at the same time, I would not have pulled the trigger .. MY ethics.
Scenario: You're hunting Elk with the only rifle you own, an accurate 25-06 loaded with 115 Berger VLD started at 3135 fps. You have a very nice 6x6 Bull across the canyon at 400 yards, no detectable wind, and not enough daylight left to attempt to get closer. You taking the shot? Or letting him walk
This is your shot angle.. Post your thoughts,
I'm letting him walk. Even if it works, as it apparently did, there are way too many things that can go wrong leading to crippling and losing an animal with the specific conditions you list. Kid seemingly did everything right but he still only had a 50/50 chance of good results. I'll offer my heartfelt congratulations but at the same time, I would not have pulled the trigger .. MY ethics.
Tom
50/50 chance of good results you say? Interesting.
Great video! Great bull !! Congrats to the young man on a really good shot at 400 yds. Everyone has their opinion on whether to shoot or not. The results speak. Thanks for sharing!
i rewatched the video the young man made an excellent shot , i am sure he knew his rifle well. i see no reason not to take the shot this young man did very well and we should all congrats him . so here is another congrats ! nice shot i would have shot too. Pete53
400 is a poke on shooting sticks, especially if you've been hiking and have any kind of heavy breathing. If the scope on said rifle was at least 14 power or so it would make things easier. I'd like to say I'd shoot him in the chest. Part of me would want to shoot behind the shoulder and grab a lung and some liver. That 115 vld is a nasty bullet. Killed alot of stuff with it. But if you smack that shoulder bone or scapula, things could get hairy. Chest is definitely the shot there, he slipped it over the shoulder and terminated the respiratory system of that bull. He took out the central nervous system and blood supply to the heart and lungs with that one. I'd say the shot made was about as perfect as it could be. Dam good shot.
400 is a poke on shooting sticks, especially if you've been hiking and have any kind of heavy breathing. If the scope on said rifle was at least 14 power or so it would make things easier. I'd like to say I'd shoot him in the chest. Part of me would want to shoot behind the shoulder and grab a lung and some liver. That 115 vld is a nasty bullet. Killed alot of stuff with it. But if you smack that shoulder bone or scapula, things could get hairy. Chest is definitely the shot there, he slipped it over the shoulder and terminated the respiratory system of that bull. He took out the central nervous system and blood supply to the heart and lungs with that one. I'd say the shot made was about as perfect as it could be. Dam good shot.
I've helped find deer shot behind the shoulder even though the animal was quartering on. It's not a shot for me.
After the hit that elk moved pretty well for having his central nervous system taken out.
400 is a poke on shooting sticks, especially if you've been hiking and have any kind of heavy breathing. If the scope on said rifle was at least 14 power or so it would make things easier. I'd like to say I'd shoot him in the chest. Part of me would want to shoot behind the shoulder and grab a lung and some liver. That 115 vld is a nasty bullet. Killed alot of stuff with it. But if you smack that shoulder bone or scapula, things could get hairy. Chest is definitely the shot there, he slipped it over the shoulder and terminated the respiratory system of that bull. He took out the central nervous system and blood supply to the heart and lungs with that one. I'd say the shot made was about as perfect as it could be. Dam good shot.
I've helped find deer shot behind the shoulder even though the animal was quartering on. It's not a shot for me.
After the hit that elk moved pretty well for having his central nervous system taken out.
If you can shoot an animal behind the shoulder and pop lungs, why would you try anything else? Those lungs will bleed more than any other organ except the heart which is a 1/10 of the size. A quarter to on an elk is a totally different animal than a deer. Body mass and bones are way more dense.
With the quartering presentation shown I don't care for the tracking job such a behind the shoulder shot will likely entail. I would want to make the shot the shooter actually made, and if I didn't think I could I'd have to pass.
With the quartering presentation shown I don't care for the tracking job such a behind the shoulder shot will likely entail. I would want to make the shot the shooter actually made, and if I didn't think I could I'd have to pass.
I'll track em. Don't matter to me. It's called hunting, not getting. Ethics are a good quality to have. Terrible losing an animal because you made a poor decision. However, you have a rifle that is plenty capable of a 400 yard shot. Get the opportunity, which in this case is a good one, take it.
That shot presentation and rifle/load combination wouldn't give me an instant of hesitation, and I've never shot a Berger of any sort at anything more than paper or steel. In fact, given the stationary critter, low-to-no wind, and great rest, there aren't many bottle-neck cases from the 223 on up that I WOULND'T use to make that shot.
Congratulations to the shooter and his "guide". I hope your taxidermist doesn't get after you for all those sand-burs. (grin)
I watched the video again, looks like there's an exit wound just behind the off-side rib-cage.
Anybody that shoots a critter BEHIND the shoulder on a quartering to angle needs a lesson in anatomy and shot placement.
I've been over it many times with my nephews. Don't think about where on the surface you want to hit the animal. Think about what you want the projectile to go through and let that determine the desired point of impact.
Anybody that shoots a critter BEHIND the shoulder on a quartering to angle needs a lesson in anatomy and shot placement.
That animal is barely quartered. Bullet would exit last rib. Dead elk. Also that 25-06 running 3150 is would eat that elk up. I'd tuck it directly behind the crease and let that berger imulsify that elk. Or on a quarter to, that shoulder bone below the scapula is forward of the actual shoulder. Heck, just drill him right behind the point of the shoulder if you don't wanna chest him.
Anybody that shoots a critter BEHIND the shoulder on a quartering to angle needs a lesson in anatomy and shot placement.
I've been over it many times with my nephews. Don't think about where on the surface you want to hit the animal. Think about what you want the projectile to go through and let that determine the desired point of impact.
If the elk in the video would have been shot BEHIND the shoulder we all would be having a different conversation, regardless of what caliber and bullet was used. As it were, the boy hit where he was supposed to.
If the elk in the video would have been shot BEHIND the shoulder we all would be having a different conversation, regardless of what caliber and bullet was used. As it were, the boy hit where he was supposed to.
Yep, behind the shoulder on that shot = maybe 1 lung, maybe liver, lots of guts. The only saving grace to shooting that critter at that angle behind the shoulder is that it might take him off his feet or hump him up enough to get a 2nd shot in him.
I would just like to add to the conversation that the cow calling you did seemed most effective, I wouldn’t have figured at 400 yards it would have such a dramatic response.
Can you share what call you used.
Congratulations!
As a side note one day I had off years ago I spent a lot of time studying the Sierra reloading book. I was staying with a friend in Merril Oregon and he had the book….it’s ginormous. That day I concluded the 25/06 was perhaps the best ballistic performer in that book ( non belted magnums).
I had a model 70 Ranger in 25/06 that my friend shot so well he had to buy it from me. Never replaced it, I still have the dies I think.
I would just like to add to the conversation that the cow calling you did seemed most effective, I wouldn’t have figured at 400 yards it would have such a dramatic response.
Can you share what call you used.
Congratulations!
As a side note one day I had off years ago I spent a lot of time studying the Sierra reloading book. I was staying with a friend in Merril Oregon and he had the book….it’s ginormous. That day I concluded the 25/06 was perhaps the best ballistic performer in that book ( non belted magnums).
I had a model 70 Ranger in 25/06 that my friend shot so well he had to buy it from me. Never replaced it, I still have the dies I think.
That call was a Steve Chapell Trophy Wife. I agree that the 25-06 is tough to beat from a performance vs. recoil standpoint, hits hard on the muzzle end, but not much on the butt end!
I’m probably picky when it comes to elk and bullets. I wouldn’t use that bullet. Good ballistic co-efficient but I wouldn’t trust it on other than a shot through the ribs/lungs. At that range and that angle, I’d likely try to get closer and try to get a broad side shot. But I’d not be hunting elk with that combination at any rate - I’m probably picky.
Scenario: You're hunting Elk with the only rifle you own, an accurate 25-06 loaded with 115 Berger VLD started at 3135 fps. You have a very nice 6x6 Bull across the canyon at 400 yards, no detectable wind, and not enough daylight left to attempt to get closer. You taking the shot? Or letting him walk
This is your shot angle.. Post your thoughts, I'll post the decision that was made after a while.
Beautiful bull, and perfect shot placement. Hooray for the young man behind the trigger. Someone has been training him right.
I love the quick cow call and perfect timing of the shot as the bull hesitated. That IS the way HUNTING is done.
Back in the day, when I and my rifle were properly tuned, yes I would have taken the shot, and picked the same point of impact.
25-06? Back in the early '80s a friend of mine and his two brothers hunted elk on a large cattle ranch owned by their Dad and Uncle. They also had two buddies who hunted with them every year on their private elk paradise.
All five of the guys carried a 24 inch Ruger tang safety in 25-06. They used the Nosler solid base 120 gr over H4831........Until Barnes invented the X bullet. Then they all switched to the X.
The boys all limited out every year. I never heard about a lost bull. Had it happened, I would have heard.
I was so impressed with the performance of their guns, I purchased a Ruger in 25-06 just like theirs. It shot just as well, also. But, I still owned my "meat in the pot" 30-06. I never blooded the 25 except on ground squirrels and muskrats at extended range.
I’d take the shot with my 25-06 & TTSX bullets. I think you have options on the bull. Neck, behind the shoulder & shot taken. Any modern bullet in the vitals or CNS or arteries will get a freezer full of elk burgers. Much nicer not to have a tracking job and practice at even longer ranges helps with those shots.
Congratulations to your son nice shooting by the young man. In my opinion if you have a strapping young lad like that get him a nice 300 Weatherby with 180 TTSX bullets as a dedicated elk gun and that shot is routine with no questions about angles needed. Save the 25-06 for deer hunting pigs, sheep & other less than 600 lb animals.
Hay ! 2five 7 what a great picture of that small valley looks like a super spot to kill elk ! thanks for posting this last picture. good luck , stay safe ,Pete53
shot placement ? we all take the best shot available at that moment its not a paper target on a target frame and your not on a bench either . i think the youngman did just fine at least he had a bi-pod on his rifle , knew how to shoot and knew the distance to make the great one shot ! good job and congrats again ! Pete53
Would I take the shot, no. (and 25-06 has zero to do with it)
Interesting response ratio here, not surprising, but interesting. Confirms all those echoing shot volleys I hear off in the distance.
My personal observations are that 90+% of hunters would be incapable of making that shot. My personal observations are that way over 90% of hunters will take that shot anyway.
Big congrats to both of you. Beautiful Bull elk. Perfect shot placement. What an awesome experience to have with your son. Memories of a lifetime for the both of you.
Dad, another congrats for you too. Its obvious that your boy has had lots of trigger time and was comfortable making a 400yd shot with his rig. From watching the video it appears that he has been well coached and your instructions were spot on. Great job. I'm sure if there was any question about the rifle/scope combo, the bullet used, his capability or the distance, You would not have instructed him to take the shot.
Would I take the shot, no. (and 25-06 has zero to do with it)
Interesting response ratio here, not surprising, but interesting. Confirms all those echoing shot volleys I hear off in the distance.
My personal observations are that 90+% of hunters would be incapable of making that shot. My personal observations are that way over 90% of hunters will take that shot anyway.
Do you hunt Michigan, Minnesota, Maine?
Around here, if you can not make the shot presented here, 9 years out of ten your freezer will stay empty. Mule deer or elk.
But we never had the advantage of etched reticles or adjustable turrets. We (universally) set the scope dead on at 300 and held nine inches high at 400. And you better be able to estimate range. There were no lasers either.
Just spitballing here but that was a very nice piece of rifle work. The hit is pretty obvious in the video right at the lower edge of the neck cape left side. If in fact that was 400 yards with a 115 gr Berger I seriously doubt that you busted up any big shoulder bone of course you never know until that nice bull is unzipped. My educated guess the bullet probably hit big bone then deflected left, took out the heart then tumbled its way aft through the organs. You had enough velocity. Had it been just lungs that animal could have, would have, traveled some distance anyway much further. Pure lung shots usually show frothy blood, lots of it out of the mouth and nose. I’ve taken two big cows with my 257 AI that were lung only broadsides and both took off and started to climb. But if the heart is hit they soon lose consciousness and hit the ground. One of my lung shot cows still had its eyes closed when I got to it like ten minutes later. I’d be surprised if there is a real exit wound maybe stuck in the far side hide but I’d bet he is a bloody mess inside.I always shoot 120 Interlocks in my 257AI but honestly I never deliberately went after Elk with a quarter bore no matter how fast.
My late Brother was a guide many years and had an orthopedic surgeon take a cow with a 270. While field dressing the doctor was according to my Brother a PITA getting in the way and poking around everywhere inside but the 270 bullet went through the shoulder bone plate leaving a clean hole. My Brother thought that was weird but the doctor said the cow’s bones were soft and weak probably due to diet. Never heard that before
Congratulations hope the back straps are clean Rick
Just spitballing here but that was a very nice piece of rifle work. The hit is pretty obvious in the video right at the lower edge of the neck cape left side. If in fact that was 400 yards with a 115 gr Berger I seriously doubt that you busted up any big shoulder bone of course you never know until that nice bull is unzipped. My educated guess the bullet probably hit big bone then deflected left, took out the heart then tumbled its way aft through the organs. You had enough velocity. Had it been just lungs that animal could have, would have, traveled some distance anyway much further. Pure lung shots usually show frothy blood, lots of it out of the mouth and nose. I’ve taken two big cows with my 257 AI that were lung only broadsides and both took off and started to climb. But if the heart is hit they soon lose consciousness and hit the ground. One of my lung shot cows still had its eyes closed when I got to it like ten minutes later. I’d be surprised if there is a real exit wound maybe stuck in the far side hide but I’d bet he is a bloody mess inside.I always shoot 120 Interlocks in my 257AI but honestly I never deliberately went after Elk with a quarter bore no matter how fast.
My late Brother was a guide many years and had an orthopedic surgeon take a cow with a 270. While field dressing the doctor was according to my Brother a PITA getting in the way and poking around everywhere inside but the 270 bullet went through the shoulder bone plate leaving a clean hole. My Brother thought that was weird but the doctor said the cow’s bones were soft and weak probably due to diet. Never heard that before
Congratulations hope the back straps are clean Rick
I also hunt with four different orthopedic surgeons, one veterinarian, and one radiologist (“Tell em I just fix radios…). They ALL do that very same thing when dressing out critters with me.
Scenario: You're hunting Elk with the only rifle you own, an accurate 25-06 loaded with 115 Berger VLD started at 3135 fps. You have a very nice 6x6 Bull across the canyon at 400 yards, no detectable wind, and not enough daylight left to attempt to get closer. You taking the shot? Or letting him walk
This is your shot angle.. Post your thoughts,
I'm letting him walk. Even if it works, as it apparently did, there are way too many things that can go wrong leading to crippling and losing an animal with the specific conditions you list. Kid seemingly did everything right but he still only had a 50/50 chance of good results. I'll offer my heartfelt congratulations but at the same time, I would not have pulled the trigger .. MY ethics.
Tom
Hell I would have probably sent a text to my buddies say get the pack boards and head this way before I touched the trigger.
I wait. Too much to go wrong. Yeah a person may make the shot. If you make it you say I told you so. If you don't, you feel like a dirt bag. Probably don't sleep a whole lot that night or the next. There's always tomorrow.
iat 400 yards with a good 25 caliber rifle ,laying down with a bi-pod lots of summer practice , with a good scope i will make that shot all day long out of my single shot rifle as did that young man had done. and again congrats on a nice bull. Pete53
Glad it worked out, but my answer would be no. No to the 25-06 on elk. No to a Berger on elk. No to that combo at 400 yards and at that angle. Too many better choices. But glad it worked and didn't end up with a wounded and lost bull.
Glad it worked out, but my answer would be no. No to the 25-06 on elk. No to a Berger on elk. No to that combo at 400 yards and at that angle. Too many better choices. But glad it worked and didn't end up with a wounded and lost bull.
Glad it worked out, but my answer would be no. No to the 25-06 on elk. No to a Berger on elk. No to that combo at 400 yards and at that angle. Too many better choices. But glad it worked and didn't end up with a wounded and lost bull.
👆
+ 10 true it all worked out perfectly but a less than perfect placement might have been a real rodeo. Your son might be a crack shot but in my book lady luck was holding his hand..mb
25-06 on a 400 yd shot at an elk? I'm a subsistance hunter, the elk would be food in my freezer. If all I had was a 25-06 I'd use in with confidence ut not at a elk at 400yds. I don't need something to brag about, what I need is food in the freezer! matter of fact I wouldn't even take that 400yd shot with my 30-06, still need food in the freezer. I believe shooting beyoind the MPBR, max oiunt blank range, of the cartridge your using is irresponsible as hell! I have taken only one shot at big game in my life much oer 250 yds, it was 330yds on the range finder and just to say I did it! Pretty sorry reason for taking the shot.
25-06 on a 400 yd shot at an elk? I'm a subsistance hunter, the elk would be food in my freezer. If all I had was a 25-06 I'd use in with confidence ut not at a elk at 400yds. I don't need something to brag about, what I need is food in the freezer! matter of fact I wouldn't even take that 400yd shot with my 30-06, still need food in the freezer. I believe shooting beyoind the MPBR, max oiunt blank range, of the cartridge your using is irresponsible as hell! I have taken only one shot at big game in my life much oer 250 yds, it was 330yds on the range finder and just to say I did it! Pretty sorry reason for taking the shot.
Wow.
If poking a bull elk in the right spot @400yds stymies a hunter he should follow the example of the young man in this thread.
Put a bit of time into learning how to shoot.
It's not rocket science and 400yd shots on bulls are some thing every good elk hunter should be able to pull off as a given. eVERY sINGLE tIME.
Let me repeat. If you can't, on demand, deliver a bullet to elk vitals @400yds (Every Single Time) you need to get your lazy azz to the range and up you shooting skill level before you enter the elk woods with a tag.
To be fair using the term MPBR is a dead give away of a lack of shooting knowledge and skill.
25-06 on a 400 yd shot at an elk? I'm a subsistance hunter, the elk would be food in my freezer. If all I had was a 25-06 I'd use in with confidence ut not at a elk at 400yds. I don't need something to brag about, what I need is food in the freezer! matter of fact I wouldn't even take that 400yd shot with my 30-06, still need food in the freezer. I believe shooting beyoind the MPBR, max oiunt blank range, of the cartridge your using is irresponsible as hell! I have taken only one shot at big game in my life much oer 250 yds, it was 330yds on the range finder and just to say I did it! Pretty sorry reason for taking the shot.
Glad it worked out, but my answer would be no. No to the 25-06 on elk. No to a Berger on elk. No to that combo at 400 yards and at that angle. Too many better choices. But glad it worked and didn't end up with a wounded and lost bull.
How many bulls have you killed, or guided other people to? I'm not the most experienced elk hunter/guide in the world, but I'm somewhere around 90-100 bulls after this season. What I'm saying is, I've seen bulls shot at with every cartridge you can think of, and come to the conclusion that the person pulling the trigger is 10x more important than the cartridge or bullet.
25-06 on a 400 yd shot at an elk? I'm a subsistance hunter, the elk would be food in my freezer. If all I had was a 25-06 I'd use in with confidence ut not at a elk at 400yds. I don't need something to brag about, what I need is food in the freezer! matter of fact I wouldn't even take that 400yd shot with my 30-06, still need food in the freezer. I believe shooting beyoind the MPBR, max oiunt blank range, of the cartridge your using is irresponsible as hell! I have taken only one shot at big game in my life much oer 250 yds, it was 330yds on the range finder and just to say I did it! Pretty sorry reason for taking the shot.
Wow.
If poking a bull elk in the right spot @400yds stymies a hunter he should follow the example of the young man in this thread.
Put a bit of time into learning how to shoot.
It's not rocket science and 400yd shots on bulls are some thing every good elk hunter should be able to pull off as a given. eVERY sINGLE tIME.
Let me repeat. If you can't, on demand, deliver a bullet to elk vitals @400yds (Every Single Time) you need to get your lazy azz to the range and up you shooting skill level before you enter the elk woods with a tag.
To be fair using the term MPBR is a dead give away of a lack of shooting knowledge and skill.
Be Better, the elk deserve hunter who can shoot.
Fully agree. All 3 of my kids have now killed a bull at 400 or beyond, all with a single shot, all in their teenage years. If they can do it, anyone should be able to.
Glad it worked out, but my answer would be no. No to the 25-06 on elk. No to a Berger on elk. No to that combo at 400 yards and at that angle. Too many better choices. But glad it worked and didn't end up with a wounded and lost bull.
How many bulls have you killed, or guided other people to? I'm not the most experienced elk hunter/guide in the world, but I'm somewhere around 90-100 bulls after this season. What I'm saying is, I've seen bulls shot at with every cartridge you can think of, and come to the conclusion that the person pulling the trigger is 10x more important than the cartridge or bullet.
What's funny is you post a scenario and question what people would do. When they answer you argue against them. What was the point of asking?
Glad it worked out, but my answer would be no. No to the 25-06 on elk. No to a Berger on elk. No to that combo at 400 yards and at that angle. Too many better choices. But glad it worked and didn't end up with a wounded and lost bull.
How many bulls have you killed, or guided other people to? I'm not the most experienced elk hunter/guide in the world, but I'm somewhere around 90-100 bulls after this season. What I'm saying is, I've seen bulls shot at with every cartridge you can think of, and come to the conclusion that the person pulling the trigger is 10x more important than the cartridge or bullet.
What's funny is you post a scenario and question what people would do. When they answer you argue against them. What was the point of asking?
He started a discussion. During the discussion he asked about how much experience you have on the subject of the discussion. Seems normal.
That said I got a kick out of both your screen names and the subject of the OP.
Glad it worked out, but my answer would be no. No to the 25-06 on elk. No to a Berger on elk. No to that combo at 400 yards and at that angle. Too many better choices. But glad it worked and didn't end up with a wounded and lost bull.
How many bulls have you killed, or guided other people to? I'm not the most experienced elk hunter/guide in the world, but I'm somewhere around 90-100 bulls after this season. What I'm saying is, I've seen bulls shot at with every cartridge you can think of, and come to the conclusion that the person pulling the trigger is 10x more important than the cartridge or bullet.
What's funny is you post a scenario and question what people would do. When they answer you argue against them. What was the point of asking?
No arguing, just curious as to WHY you answered the way you did? I'm always curious to see if its from practical experience, or otherwise.
Hunted deer before elk and based on different bullet construction, weight, shot angles, penetration, retained weight, etc I went away from softer, lighter jacketed bullets to tougher bonded ones.
For example I took a blacktail buck that was quartering away with a 130 BT. Left a huge hole in the side without much penetration, and lots of fragments. Had a similar shot a few years later on another blacktail using an Accubond, multiple broken ribs, tore up lung, big chunk of its heart gone, broken off shoulder, and exited.
Took elk with Accubonds for quite a while and while the bullets performed well, I wanted more penetration than I was getting from a 270. Broadside, easy. Quartering I wanted more. Went to 7 mags with 160 ABs, no issues.
Have stepped back to a 280AI mainly for elk with 145 LRXs, and use LRXs almost exclusively, with the exception of 150 TTSXs from a 308. Most deer haven't taken more than a few steps, if any, and though I've taken only a couple elk with them so far, I've had perfect results.
While I haven't been around 100 elk taken, not even close, I've taken enough deer and elk to prefer tougher and heavier (than 115 - 130) bullets.
Hunted deer before elk and based on different bullet construction, weight, shot angles, penetration, retained weight, etc I went away from softer, lighter jacketed bullets to tougher bonded ones.
For example I took a blacktail buck that was quartering away with a 130 BT. Left a huge hole in the side without much penetration, and lots of fragments. Had a similar shot a few years later on another blacktail using an Accubond, multiple broken ribs, tore up lung, big chunk of its heart gone, broken off shoulder, and exited.
Took elk with Accubonds for quite a while and while the bullets performed well, I wanted more penetration than I was getting from a 270. Broadside, easy. Quartering I wanted more. Went to 7 mags with 160 ABs, no issues.
Have stepped back to a 280AI mainly for elk with 145 LRXs, and use LRXs almost exclusively, with the exception of 150 TTSXs from a 308. Most deer haven't taken more than a few steps, if any, and though I've taken only a couple elk with them so far, I've had perfect results.
While I haven't been around 100 elk taken, not even close, I've taken enough deer and elk to prefer tougher and heavier (than 115 - 130) bullets.
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![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/C9IXs9Yh.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/GnGWwys.jpeg)
