We've all seen the image of an old prospector wandering around with a burro carrying all his gear. They seem to be less common today even though burros might be a practical way to carry gear into a remote camp. Does anyone have experience with burros?

KC

We hashed them over a while back. Check out this old thread: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/donkey/Search/true/donkeys#Post2998990

Rock Chuck:

I read every post in that thread. It started out discussing burros/donkeys but quickly turned into a discussion about mules vs horses. I hope I get more info regarding burros/donkeys out of this thread.

Has anyone used a burro or donkey as a pack animal while hunting elk? Please relate your experiences.

KC

No experience with burros for elk hunting, but we used them for the week-long Boy Scout back country hikes for several weeks every summer for years. Once they knew who was boss, they were great.

Uncle Sam will sell you a few burros...cheap too!

Haven't used them for elk,but have pack several.I saw a darn nice string of them a few years back down in the Swampy pass area and they sure did the job.
Compare a horse and a mule and then the same amount of difference applies to comparing a burro to a mule. They are a darn site smarter and take considreable more time in training,but it can be done. They are also heartier and take less food and can subsist on rougher forage. Personally if I were looking in that direction,I would look at a 12 hd little mule instead.
Probably looking at a weight capacity of 125 lbs. more if they are bigger

I will ride a horse, pack a mule, sometimes ride a mule if its a good one. Having been raised where burros were abundant, I don't want to use them. I have used them to pack salt. We had Candellia wax vats and the Mexicans used them to pack the candellia weed and pack wax to our ranch where we would buy it from them.. They are stubborn and hard to work with albiet they are gentle by nature once broke. Also once broke they are pretty slow moving as a rule..They are also much harder to balance a load on and hard to keep the pack saddles on them and you need to have special pack saddles if your serious about them and the cost is prohibitive...

The summer I spent working with a sheep hearder we use 2 of them to pack out while going to and from different fields both had been used for at lest 15 years and knew the trails by heart,they loved the sheep and dogs and would go just plain raving mad when a yote would show up. The Forest Service in our area used them to pack in new seadlings.Have seen the Mex's pack'em down so heavy I never thought they would move, Like Ray said though if they take in their heads they don't like you , for get getting them to move

We got two very wild burros to practice roping about 16-17 years ago. About the wildest things you could imagine, within a couple years we sold one and kept the other "Burrito".

He was stunted, but must have came from a mammoth jack as he ended up being just shy of 14 hands. With some gentle hands he ended up being a big pet. He lead wonderfully, packed great, even rode fairly well. I used a brow band bridle with quick disconnects on the side for the bit. I'd put the bridle on and than insert the bit and clip in into place.

He was almost to friendly really when it came down to it. He'd follow you around wherever you went. Would have loved to have taken him out to the Mtn.s sometime.

Short on room at my folks' place and I got tired of hearing my step-dad bitch about him as the burro was always the one getting moved around in the barn and if he wasn't fed first he'd start to bray (spelling). Ended up giving him to an old girlfriend of mine who always wanted him. Still doing well and they ride him quite often.

Gray horse in the front is 16'2

I use pack burros here in Colorado. I started a blog and forum at www.originalatv.com. I'm just getting things started so there isn't much discussion yet. I'd be happy to answer any questions you guys may have. My burros packed out six elk this fall.

Saddlesore: I hunt up near Swampy Pass, that might have been me you saw!

Sent you a PM

Several years ago my son built about a mile of fence in a conservation area where no vehicles were allowed. Used a saddle horse and donkey with a sawbuck saddle and panniers to pack everything in and out. Donkey could carry three rolls of barbed wire, or three sacks of post mix. Wrapped the barbed wire in a towel, put one on each side and one on top. Same with the post mix. As I recall they also wrapped the t-posts in canvas.
After the first day, the donkey would follow the horse without a lead rope. One day the donkey fell down the side of a mountain, not too far and nobody got hurt. Waited for the wreck to stop and then carried everything back up to the trail and repacked it.
Just my two cents worth.

Mark

Gonehuntin. This outfit I saw was from Texas I believe. About 6 big Mammoth stock donkeys. All new pack saddels and tack

Before I got my llamas, I looked all over so. Idaho for a couple good donkeys. All I found were minis about the size of my lab. I finally gave up and tried out goats and the llamas.

Rock Chuck,
I have a friend who specializes in the use of goats as pack animals; pretty much an expert. However, Colorado and most of the western states are about to ban the use of goats in areas where there are bighorns and mtn goats. The 2013 Colorado Big Horn hunting brochure (page 3) sited an extensive study that showed a serious problem with the transmission of disease to wild sheep and goats. Right now it is �recommended� that folks leave pack goats at home but I have it on good authority it will soon be enforced.

My animals were rescued �wild� burros. Most, if not all, folks who use formally wild burros will testify they are much preferred over none-wild donkeys. Natural selection has given them more stamina; made them less prone to disease and (my favorite) they have a little more �git-up-and-go�. They are hard workers and will pack gear for miles!

Here are a couple of videos from this fall and one dandy bull a friend of mine took.

https://vimeo.com/78501235
https://vimeo.com/77910252

For anyone in Colorado, I will be at International Sportsman's Expo in Denver Jan 16-19, booth 3042. Stop by and say hello and we can talk about asses!

Eric

Where do you get those "once wild"burros?

Could you transport burros in a truck bed w/rack similar to llamas?

I'd want a stock trailer myself.

My burros were captured by the BLM in AZ, near the Grand Canyon. Then they were transported to Canon City, CO to the Wild Horse Inmate Program (WHIP) https://www.coloradoci.com/serviceproviders/whip/

I use quotes around "wild" because by definition they aren't really wild, they are feral. In the 1800's when roads were built to the mines the burros weren't needed as much so they were set loose to fend for themselves. Donkeys are very prolific and they flourished in the deserts of the SW. The BLM rounds up around 2,000 animals every spring and offers them for adoption at various locations. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/whbprogram.html

brymoore: I've never seen anyone do it. Personally, I'd prefer transporting any animal in a trailer. There are many reasons: trailers have places to store tack and feed, they offer a safe place to secure the animals if I need to leave the trailer in an emergency, they keep the animals out of the weather, etc. Used trailers can be bought pretty cheaply via Craigslist.

Easily. The llamas might ride slightly easier because they usually lie down and aren't so top heavy but the donkeys would be no problem.
I took the lift-up tailgate off my stock rack and built a loading ramp that folds down. It ends about a foot off the ground with re-bar legs under it so it doesn't have to be so long. They'll just step right up on it.
I put 4 large llamas in an 8' bed. They aren't tied as they like to work out their own travel arrangements. I've never hauled donkeys so I don't know how that would work.

There's a guy in Boise who drives around with two mules in the bed of his truck. I thought I might be able to do something similar with a donkey. I can buy a trailer but hate to have something sit around more than I use it.

GoneHuntn,

Great looking animals! You've got me thinking....

A couple idiot questions for you.

Are pack burros shod?

Do burros do OK in the mountains solo? Or do they prefer company?

No need to shoe burros, their feet are built for rocky country.

They generally work better in pairs. If you adopt a donkey most places will encourage you to adopt two. They are social animals and do much better as a bonded pair. I have taken them solo and there are no issues. However, once I get back home and they see each other they have a noisy reunion. Donkeys form bonds. That comes in handy in camp because if you have one you have them both. Plus, a donkey won't head for the trail-head if it gets loose like a horse. A lot of the time I lead one and the other follows without being tethered. They also bond with the handler so most times they follow me without a lead rope.

Wouldn't mind having two of those

If you want some entertainment, put a hormonal jack with a jenny in heat. Don't get between them.

I want me some donkey! Looking at the links you provided above. Unbelievable that they deliver for free within 150 miles of Canon City!

A couple more idiot questions:

Do burros and horses pasture ok together?

How long do burros live (useful packing life)?

Donkeys do fine with horses. Matter of fact, there are lots of donkeys all over the world that serve as �guard donkeys� and are pastured with horses and other livestock. Donkeys have a strong sense of self-preservation. Pastured with other livestock, they will pursue, attack and sometimes kill predators that could harm sheep, cattle or horses. When I am on the trail I tell folks with dogs who do not have them on a leash to watch out. If a dog gets too frisky a donkey will turn and teach them a painful lesson.

Donkeys can live to between 40 and 60 years of age. Just like humans, how much work they can do as they age has a lot to do with how healthy they are. I know guys in their 70�s who still sling a pack and chase elk in the high country of Colorado. Donkeys are no different. So, I guess there is really no definitive answer. However, donkeys and mules have been known to perform longer in life than horses. I have friends who have donkeys in their late 30�s who still work them. Of course, they don�t load them as heavily as they did when they were in their prime.

People who are not all familiar with horse, usually don't fair well with mules, and donkey/burros are even further up the line. It takes a special person to train, use, and care for them.

Folks who say "Oh, I want donkey or burro", because others have such good luck for them are usually in for a rude awakening. They are amazed at how much time you have to spend with them to get them to bond. Think of a dog, not a horse. A person needs to study up on them and become knowledgeable of the nuances mentally and physically before just jumping right into them. An example is they are so thrifty with their food, you just can't turn them out on grass,24/7 if you want a working animal. They will get too fat and at times founder. These ones you see out as guard animals are usually turned out and that is their only job. Very seldom do you see the same ones in harness or working.

As with any thing, it is good to have an experienced mentor.

I have been messing around with mules for about 45 years and they still teach me something frequently.

Horses are at give away prices; why screw with burros? unreal

Horses ,Mules or Jack Asses Saddlesore has good advice. Find a good mentor that has good stock you are comfortable around. People I know have adopted the wild horses and used the horse whisper stuff, if I'm nice to them they will be nice to me, and ended up with spoiled and dangerous animals. You need to know how to work with them. Each one has its own personality.
Just like women, nuthin better than a good one, nuthin worse that a bad one.

Spot on! I couldn't have said it any better! As with any animal you need to train the human first, which is generally more difficult than training the animal. I've trained horses, hunting dogs and now donkeys. They all learn differently and have different motivations. It has been said you tell a horse what to do and ask a donkey. If you start out with that mindset it makes it easier to understand donkeys.

To get my burros ready for hunting (or "battle ready" as my Army buddy puts it), I spent at least 3 hours a week working with them over a four month period. I went on hikes almost every weekend last summer. I tried to expose them to everything imaginable, from shooting guns to unrolling a stove pipe from a Kifaru stove under their feet. They've had a few months off while I repack the bearings in the trailer and fix the brakes but I'll start working with them again real soon.

Think about all the negative words in the English language that have to do with donkeys. My guess is they were probably dirived from some poor, inexperienced horse wrangler trying to work with an ass.

Is there anyone on the forum who will be attending the BHA Rondy in March here in Denver? I will be presenting a session on burro packing. Also, Guy Eastman mentioned a conversation he and I had about using burros in the latest addition of EHJ under his "Scoping It Out" section. (Thanks Guy!) Watch for more from EHJ in the future on using burros for elk hunting.

http://www.backcountryhunters.org/index.php/rendezvous

GoneHuntn:

Where do you stable your burros?

KC

Howdy KC! We still need to have that cup of coffee!

I keep them at a friend's place near Elbert. However, I'm working on moving to the boonies soon so they'll be at my place.

Are you coming out to the BHA Rondy in Denver next month? BHA members are good, like-minded folks.

Eric:

I had to look that up on Wikipedia. BHA = Backcountry Hunters & Anglers, right? First I've heard of them. Found their web site. Still reading. $130 for tickets to their Rendezvous. Stopped reading.

Couldn't go anyway because I'll be attending the 24HC rendezvous in Arizona on that weekend.

Yep. We do need to get together for that cup of coffee.

KC

I'll be at the CO Springs Boat & Outdoor Show, Feb 21-23. Booth 507. Stop by and say hello.

http://rjpromotions.com/event/colorado-springs-boat-outdoor-show/

That's the same weekend as the BHA rendezvous and the Arizona get together.

KC

Edit: My mistake. The BHA rendezvous is in March.

My buddy runs the BLM horse and donkey program in Florence at the Arizona State Prison. They board both donkeys and horses for BLM under a contract basis. They also break and tame the horses and donkeys if needed.

He told me that he has one inmate that works with the donkeys and can make a pet out of one in 2 weeks. Says they will follow you anywhere and can be handled easily. They are not pack broke generally. They are only $75 a piece so for that price you could buy a bunch, string them out and then use them for bait along the way! I am sorely tempted to get one just to use as a pack animal when I am afoot. Donkeys really excel when you are going at person walking speed rather than thoroughbred speed.

I think it would be a pretty cheap experiment if you could find a halfway gentle one.

This is the only photo I took while there last time. If you look off to the right you can see the donkeys.

They're cheap so get 2. Seriously. Many animals, burros included, are herd animals and do much better with company. The exception is if you want it for guarding sheep or goats. A single will bond with the sheep while 2 will bond with each other.

+1 on the bait idea! Win-win, except for the burro ...

Check out Army Field Manual FM 3-05.211 (FM 31-27) Special Forces Use of Pack Animals. It is available on line.

If you want bait take a llama or a goat. Burros do not see themselves as prey and will face danger head-on rather than run from it like a horse. I have a friend who calls the donkey that he keeps with his cattle "coyote killer", and for good reason.

Watch for the June issue of Eastman's Hunting Journal (Elk edition), I'll have an article about using burros.

GoneHuntn-

How old is too old to try training donkies? My sister has 4 that do nothing but eat grass. I'm not down there super often, but I wonder if with some work I could make them somewhat usefull.

I think you would be wasting your time if you can only do it a few times. The first basic rule is you have to get them to trust you. That isn't going to happen if the visits are infrequent. Then you have the problem of finding the right size pack outfits. Unless they are huge burros, standard stuff won't fit them. Then once you get the trust and proper fitting tack, then you start to train. I wouldn't want to attempt it with older animals.
Combining someone that knows nothing about packing with animals that also know nothing is a receipt for disaster.

Donkeys are smart critters and they learn very quickly. It takes time to get them to trust you and for you to get to know the animals. Being familiar with horses is a good start, but if you are not there are plenty of books that will help. Do a little searching on Amazon. My guess is you'd get more training than the donkeys. There's no donkey whispering secret, it just takes time and patience. The more time you spend the better hunting partner you'll have. If you only have limited time to spend you'll only get limited results.

As far as equipment goes, CO Saddlery makes donkey sized rigs as does SoMoMule. Craigslist is also a good place to look. You can get horse/mule sized stuff pretty cheap and have someone who works with leather take it in for you and still come out cheaper in most cases. The most important part is a proper fitting sawbuck. Improper fit can bruise the animal.

Thanks for the info, both of you. Since I don't live with them I'll just leave them be. It'd be a good job for my nephew, but I doubt I could keep him focused on it for more than 15mins!

They need to be subjected to lead poisoning BEFORE they become bait!


There is a book where a trapper discussed his exploits in the Kaibab. He captured a bunch of wild burros from Western AZ and then strung them out with packs. He made a large march through the area and killed a burro about every 2 miles. He set a bunch of traps in a circle around the carcasses with drags. Once he ran out of bait-burros, he turned around and went back to start collecting his bounty. I forget just how many coyotes he caught but it was like 70 coyotes and 6 lions! Now that's bait'n...

Don't know how it is these days, but the last time I was down on the Rio Grande at the Black Gap WMA (just below Big Bend NP) you couldn't sleep at night for the feral burros braying! I would have gladly shot every damned one of them.

I have it on good authority that they are pretty good eating, better than standard horse for sure

Mudhen: In the late 1800's and early 1900's after roads were built to the mines in Colorado, the donkeys were cut loose to fend for themselves. They made such a raucous noise around towns like Fairplay and Leadville that people started to complain. They started calling them "Rocky Mountain Canaries". I still hear people refer to them that way from time to time.

Dennisinaz: Donkeys were the first equines to be domesticated about 8000 years ago. At first they were raised as food. Some countries around the world still eat them but it is their milk that is used the most. I've never had it but I've heard it's better than cow's milk. I had a nursing jenny but she kicked at me when I tried to milk her!

This is a ring tone on my phone. I get some funny looks when it goes off in public!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvi4XHA78vU

I've though about getting a wild pig ring tone...and having someone call me when I'm in a buffet type restaurant.

I worked at the Nevada Test Site many years .That is about 60 miles north of Las Vegas. We frequented Pahrump a lot during weekends, which isn't far away. There are a lot of feral burros in that area that old miners turned lose years ago and they thrived. They liked to layout on the warm pavement when it started to turn cool at night in the fall. They sure mess up a vehicle when you come over a rise and hit one laying on the road.

When I decided I wanted burros for hauling my elk I talked to a couple of guys who had about 80 years of experience between them working with these animals and during our conversations they hit every point in this article.

http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-news/donkey-research.aspx

If I had a place at the house, I would get a couple. As it is, I have a place at my dad's but it is 6 miles across town in a direction I rarely go. I am just afraid that I won't be able to spend enough time with them to get them to warm up to me!

I made a lot of horse jerky over the years. One of the scout camps used to feed burro as there main course in the big BBQ night. I don't think they advertised it to the boys.

What's a good age for gelding either a donkey or a mule? I've read conflicting opinions.

Best if you get them as weanlings and train them from day one assuming you have a lot of time. Or find one 15-18 years old that has been there, done that with everything and has been treated good( hard to find good ones like that)

One thing about them, they don't forget bad treatment and you will pay hell getting them over it IF you ever can.

In all the years I have messed with mules. I have never bought a mature one I have been 100% happy with.This one I got two months ago though seems to be working out a little bit better than most.

With mules and I suppose it is the same with donkeys, you figure out what you can put up with and what you can't, rather than trying to find the perfect one, which is never going to happen.

I was talking about the idea age for castrating them. I've read everything from 2 months to 2 years. I know with some animals, llamas for example, if you do it too young, the urinary system doesn't develop right and can lead to problems later.
With meat animals they do it right after birth but those don't survive long enough to have problems.

You cut them as soon as the testicles drop. I just buried a 30 year old mule last year. Castrated when he was less than 6 months old. Nothing is gained by letting them get horsey and having to put up with that.

My limited experience with jacks tells me that I really don't want to mess with one unless I get into breeding them. Those dang jacks can get wild.

My jack (Muzzy) is 8 months old. I plan to have him castrated soon while it's still cool and before the flies. Once he's healed I will wean him.

The session at the BHA Rondy went well. I had a nice group of folks.

Here's the video I started the session with:

https://vimeo.com/89071888

Here's a great burro related elk hunting article.

Enjoy:

http://www.originalatv.com/blog/close-enough-to-perfect-a-guest-post-by-paul-vertrees/

Gents,

Check out issue 143 of Eastman's Hunting Journal (Elk addition). I wrote a short sidebar about why burros are a wise choice as pack animals. My friend John Harrison also wrote a great article about his hunt last year and how we teamed up in the back-country. The on-line version came out this week and hard copies should be on shelves within a week or so.

Years ago, 3 of us bought a Burro and the packing equipment. He would carry 100 pounds or so and we used him on many wilderness hunts (John Day, Wenaha, Olive Lake etc...). In camp, he was kinda like a big dog. I've got a pix of him, head stuck in our tent, looking over my shoulder during a poker game. He WAS a bit contrary though, and nervous as heck while in the deep woods (I think that's why he stayed around camp so well).

We packed him until he turned 25 and then sold him. Never could teach him not to try to jump a creek and you didn't really lead him --- you walked ahead and he'd follow. You had to be careful though, as he'd often sense that he was about to be eaten by some imaginary threat and bolt down the trail ---- you'd best not be in his way.

He did his job (mostly) and wasn't a lot of trouble. He was NO Mule or Horse, though.

Hello Gents,

I haven't posted in a while. I had a meatless archery season and so did my son on his rifle elk hunt. But, we had fun and I made a few videos.

Check them out here: http://www.originalatv.com/blog/video-blog/

I was comparing your portable hot fence to what I use for my llamas. I have a similar setup but with llamas, I MUST use 3 tapes. Since their fleece insulates them from electricity, I need enough wires so they can't get their heads through without hitting their ears or nose. I've watched them lay down and belly crawl under a 2' high wire so I need one about 15" off the ground. That stops them dead. I put the top one 3.5 to 4' high and one half way between them.

Once a burro touches an electric fence he will NEVER do it again. I put the fence up in the pasture and let them experience it there before I head into the back country. I run the fence charger but I really don't have to. It's more to keep the critters out than the donkeys in.

Eric
What is the size of your burros, I like their color very much
My Granddad always drove mules and would have nothing to do with horses. He sure did cover a lot of country with those matched pair of Jennies and his buggy. Thanks for bring back memories.
Cheers NC

My donks are considered standard size (36"-48") They are 44 and 43 inches at the shoulder. I have another burro that is larger. Muzzy turned 1 year old on Sep 1st and he's already 51" at the shoulder. I'm hoping he keeps growing and is large enough to ride. Either way, he will be a great elk hauler. Their dark markings are less common. They have a recessive gene so they lack the normal buff white color around the eyes, nose and belly. There is a name for it but I can't recall it. They also have stripes on their legs.

Good animals can make a life-long impression on folks. I'm building some memories with my boys. We take lots if treks during the summer and one of my burros pulls a cart. My 7 year old loves to go for drives so I take him every chance I get. I'm sure he'll remember it the rest of his life.

This is one of our treks from this summer: http://www.originalatv.com/blog/picketwire-canyondinosaur-track-site/

Hi SS. I too spent a lot of time at NTS. Did you ever go to one of the Burro BBQs in Beatty? Back in the day they were a great party before the bikers and hippies ruined it and they ended. Did you ever go to one of the turkey shoots in Cactus Springs when they used live turkeys? There's a different kind of party when a bar hosts a shooting match! Now back to the original thread.

mike r

Mike. Didn't spend much time in Beatty. some in Pahrump

Is anyone going to the Western Hunting & Conservation Expo in Salt Lake?

If so, stop by my booth (1427) and say hello. I'll have info on using burros as pack animals and places to adopt them. Plus, I always have time to swap elk hunting stories!

Just saw that this thread was resurrected and wanted to comment on this.
I had a mule that we put in a pasture with an electric wire around the top. He hadn't been around them before. He reached out with his nose and touched it and did a backflip (saw it with my own eyes). Every time he came into the corral next to the back yard fence he would walk over and get about 12" away from the wire and sniff at it. If it was on he would back up quickly and kick up his heels.

One day it wasn't on. He walked up and sniffed it and decided it was safe. He grabbed the wire with his teeth and pulled down about 100' of fence. We had to leave it on full time after that

Too bad that expo is during our campout in Tonto Basin...

Yep, same thing her. Mine won't pull the fence down, but sure know if it is on or not. If there is a short and it is arcing, the mules can hear that for quite some distance and get very nervous.

I've often wondered how a horse or mule can determine that a fence is on. One theory I read is that the electric field produces ozone which is in sort of a cloud around the wire. They can smell it. I don't know if that's correct but it sounds plausible.

He acted like he could smell it but maybe he heard some buzzing in any event- he got even with it! The day I took him from there in my stock trailer with 5' high sides, I walked him in and threw his lead rope over the side. I climbed out and went towards the house. I felt something and looked back to see him walking right beside me! Jumped out of the trailer without even clipping the sides. After that I had to load him, turn him around and cross-tie to keep him in!