Which bullet performs better on Elk? I tried a box of each and both shoot pretty good groups out of my rifle but I have never seen an elk shot with either. I'm shooting a 300 rum. Any imput?

I can't speak for the VLD, but I shoot the 200AB out of my 300RUM.

I have taken moose, elk and Mtn. Goat with excellent results.

I have a pard who shoots the 180AB out of his 300RUM and has taken a boat load with that combo.

Tony

9 bulls with a 200 grain Accubond in a .300 RUM. All the bulls were very dead, yardages from 42 to 564 yards. Never used a VLD. Don't need to. mtmuley

What he said......

My 300RUM shoots the 200AB sub 1.5" at 300 yards. MV is north of 3150.

Tony

You have to shoot a 210 Berger to get a better BC than a 200 gr Accubond. The Accubond is a harder bullet that will generally provide more penetration but is still soft enough in the front to deform at lower velocities (ie longer ranges). My guess is that you would have to get out to at least 700 to 800 yards to see any better performance with the Berger and it might be farther than that.

I have shot both and quit using the Berger because of performance issues that others told me about. The AB's are proven performers I will stay with them. (I use them in one rifle, everything else is the PT)

200-gn Accubond and you are set for virtually any angle, near to far.

The same can't be said for the VLD.

Considering the excellent BC and accuracy of the 200-NAB, it seems like a pretty simple choice- to me anyway.

Accubonds it is then thanks guys

Ask jeffy how many Elk he's shot with the VLD.. Or any other critter...

The Bergers, but I use the target version, not the hunting version, act just like a standard cup and core bullet to me. If you'd trust a cup and core I would have no issue with the Berger.

OTOH the accubond is not nearly enough of a step forward IMHO, if you want to be able to do it all then of course the answer is not accubond, but Barnes.

Good luck with your accubombs.

+1 on JeffDoh's experience with Bergers. Heck, ask him his experience with accubombs on elk. The numbers are staggering...:)

But but they are a cup and core bullet

..........Which bullet performs better on elk, all depends on what you wish for the bullet to do internally. The animal`s vitals are located in the center, which is what needs to be disrupted.

I`ve used 180 gr and 200 gr 30 cal Accubonds in the past on three elk with no real issues. Even though I always got my elk, I`ve had to track two of them after the shot even with well placed pass throughs for about 200-300 yards. Vs the VLDs, Accubonds will have the better penetration. I also wanted to reduce my tracking time as much as possible on hogs. The VLDs didn`t disappoint on the hogs.

After 30 or so one shot hog kills back at that time using the 168 VLDs, with most of them either DRT and a few collapsing within a few yards, I thought I`d try for the first time a 190 gr hunting VLD on my Nov `09 elk hunt using my 300 WSM carbine.

From 328 yards the 190 VLD penetrated the thick right shoulder bone. The bull dropped two to four yards from impact. There was massive and very wide internal damage with a few bullet fragments found just below the hide on the opposite side. Obviously, no tracking was needed.

Although very explosive after the initial penetration of two to maybe three inches and realizing that the VLDs are limited in penetration, I did a workup view of an elk looking down from the top and discovered that shooting angles of up to 30-35 degrees (quartering to or away), can still massively disrupt the vitals with well placed shots. Angled shots of too extreme are not reco`d using the VLDs. In that regard, the VLDs do have their limitations.

Berger recos that for the hunting VLD to do its job, even through thick bone, a minimum impact speed of 1800 fps up to an absolute max of 3000 fps is needed. Those impact #s will fall well within most if not all average downrange impact speeds for elk hunting.

So it all depends on what your preference is as to the internal effect you wish for the bullet to have. True! So far I only have killed one elk with a VLD. But after that pretty much DRT experience, of which I`ve never seen before on any of my previous elk kills, my new preference on elk now happens to be total vitals disruption, along with if possible the least amount of tracking as well.

Other members here such as John Burns, have successfully killed far more elk than me using the VLDs.

I have been involved with the using the 180 Nosler PT since the early 60's and with my limited experience (over 100 head of big game) I find the PT to be the perfect hunting bullet for me. I do use the AB in one rifle that doesn't like the PT.My .02

Dammit! My elk could be dying milliseconds faster just by dumping Accubonds for Bergers. mtmuley

Well, Jeff, except my assumption here is that he wants a high-BC bullet, hence the VLD's. Could be wrong there. The TSX isn't that, not hardly.

Also the .30 caliber 200-gn Accubond is a long (high-SD) bullet. I've not used this version, but I have used the very similar 8mm 200-grainer, which doesn't have nearly the SD of the .30 cal version. Penetration on elk was outstanding. Unless Noz did something really wonky with the .30 cal version it should penetrate even better.

I'll stick to my opinion and damn the torpedoes <grin>. This particular Accubond gives you a bullet that will work at about any angle (unlike the VLD) and still has a great BC (.588) for long range work.

It's perfect <g>.

You have experienced problems with the VLDs when shooting angles?

Jeff, I have agree'd with your post's 90% of the time unless the topic is AR-15 trigger's, on this one you missed the boat.

Seemed like a direct hit to me

Please....do share your vast experiences killing elk and the results from such.

Please do share your VLD ones as well. You do know all about shooting elk at angles with the VLD, right? I mean, you have done it and will share with the group. Or... are you talking out your azz as per usual?

Wanker <grin>.

Killed a couple with the 8mm 200-grainer. Have shot a $hitload of the .30-cal 200-grainers. Very accurate bullet, very consistant, high BC that matches up to the software so it appears to be a "real" BC number... he says they both shoot about equally well in his rifle so no accuracy advantage to the VLD.

Can't see giving up reasonable shot angles for no good reason so this one appears to be a no-brainer to this lug nut at least.

IMHO. YMMV. Etc.

wyonelk, you are becoming unpleasant so this'll be my last post to you for a while.

Reports on the VLD's terminal ballistics are remarkably consistant and I believe those reporting them. If a guy wants what they do- go for it. In this case my opinion is that he'd be better off with the NAB since it has the high BC and all that. He can regard or disregard my opinion as he sees fit. And you can bite me.

But this is what you posted





The question remains how do you know this, from experience or is it your opinion from what you have read from others?

Jeff, I dont give a [bleep] about reports. Tell me your experiences on shooting VLD bullets into elk. Have none? Why the fugg are you commenting on this thread?

I dont give a [bleep] about caliber. I dont give a [bleep] about weight. I want to know your personal experience with shooting VLD's into elk. At least tell me some experience standing next to a guy who has shot a VLD into an elk. Waiting....

I can chat about Grand Slams, Partitions, Ballistic Tips, X, XLC, TSX, Berger VLD, those not to be mentioned Remington bullets and a few others. All from sending said bullets into elk.

I have watched Accubombs and others on a few occasions while standing right next to the guy pulling the trigger. Lets discuss experiences Jeff. Not reports but actual experiences.

I have been involved with the using the 180 Nosler PT since the early 60's and with my limited experience (over 100 head of big game) I find the PT to be the perfect hunting bullet for me. I do use the AB in one rifle that doesn't like the PT.My .02

These are real numbers? There are quite a large number of elk in this sample

interesting on the NP, but I"ve been told its not nearly as stout as the 200 NP in 30 cal either.

I quit using the 180 out of a 300 mag used on Nilgai(similar size, maybe even tougher than elk though) since it would not reliably give about more than 16 inches or so penetration if you hit major bone structure.

Went to Barnes. Never looked back.

Where'd jeffy go?

wyoelk, Why are you so sure the 200 grain Accubond in a .300 RUM doesn't work very well? mtmuley

I've never sucked cock before but have no problem saying its not for me.

I will also say that the 2 elk I have seen killed with VLDs (30 cals/don't remember weight) were depressing. They were shoulder hits which I don't recommend on elk with anything but a premium bullet and a lot of speed. Both shoulders stopped the bullets and the bulls needed another round. The second rounds were behind the shoulder, where they belonged, but still made a mess.

Personally I say go Accubond and put it behind the shoulder.

Could be wrong on the VLDs; and sucking cock could also be exhilirating.

That's [bleep] funny. Should be someones sig line

Damn, the wife is wondering why I'm laughin

Dog Hunter

Now that was too funny :-)

16" on an animal of that size is pretty good penetration. I have shot two elk with the TSX both under 300 yards. Great penetration but on the second one I failed to break the off side shoulder at 300 yards. Shooting STW, 160@3200, elk wandered about on the hill for a couple of min stopped then I shot her again. I feel that with the PT she would have been DRT.

You just never really know. Every animal reacts differently...

There's simply no downside to the 200-NAB.

Never seen that combo in action. So...... I will keep my mouth shut about said combo. Or would you prefer me to mouth off about something I have read somewhere?

Now that bullet ahead of 72 grains of 4350 has helped me stay fat through more than one winter. Elk dont like it.

Never sucked cock either but I have shot through both shoulders of a bull with a little 7mm 140 VLD. I will give you that was an odd thing.

How many Elk have you shot with the 200 cal AB to form your opinion?

Any idea what the impact velocity was?

I've just seen just one elk killed with 180 gr, acubonds.
200 yds quartering toward us, hit square in the shoulder and down she came!
Using a .30-06,I was pretty impressed to say the least!
We found the bullet just under the hide on the oppisite shoulder nicely mushroomed weighed 158 gr.

16 inches from a shot at around 125 yards, doesn't make me feel all warm inside. Assuming one wanted to take a long raking shot...

The Barnes OTOH are really hard to retain in an animal. Yep each one is different, but I had a track record of the 180 NP not doing as well as I'd like. Dead animals, but some even smaller animals retained the bullets..

As to DRT, if I need DRT, I'll make the correct shot placement for that, which is only a CNS hit. Beyond that I really don't care if they run a bit at all. Not a big deal to me. Of course I come from an archery background and a bit of an MZ so you just don't typically get DRT and it never really hurt me...
Though I often read about those edge of the ledge shots on sheep, goats and even elk.... thats where you'd direct the shot correctly, rather than gamble that the bullet willl make up the difference.

But if ya want more DRT then a more frangible bullet generally offers that.

My god I was drunk last night. I need to stop cracking beers before noon.

I should say that I wasn't present when these elk were killed, I just helped with the pack out. I think they were both also shot at fairly close range from fairly fast rounds (300 Win Mag IIRC), which was not what the VLD was apparently desinged for. I wonder if at long range (and much slower velocity) if the VLDs will hold together better and act like some here say they do?

I will stick to my original (and now sober) opinion that VLDs are not for me and the shorter ranges I normally hunt at, even though my experience with them is all 2nd hand.

I think it's more fun when you post drunk and agree with your logic!

Now I need to get drunk...

At close range and if you don't mind tracking it dosen't matter much. The accubond is a little more versatile as it will penetrate deeper.

At longer range out past 500 or 600 yards the VLD hands down. At longer rang you will have plenty of time to make a good shoulder shot. The VLD's shine because they reduce the amount of tarcking one needs to do and have an outstanding BC. At longer ranges this is a big help when sometimes it can be difficult to discern if you even hit the animal. Any one who has shot game at long range will also tell you that if you are by yourself and make a long kill it can sometimes be difficult to pinpoint the exact location that the animal was standing when it was hit. If you don't have to find a blood trail and can see the animal drop it makes life so much easier.

I dont have any experience with accubonds, but they should work just as well as any other premium bullet made for deep penetration.

Just for conversational purposes, I'd contest that the VLD is even the hands-down obvious choice at 500-600 yards IN THIS CASE. While it may be true the VLD's BC normally trounces an Accubond, it isn't the case here. The Accubond is .588 and the 210-gn VLD is .616... and it weighs 10 grains more, so at least on the face of it there will be about 50 fps difference at max pressures (though let me say, I've not run VLD's and perhaps they have a short bearing surface or something and run fast for the pressure)... so ANYWAY, I can put up one of my charts that pisses people off so much <grin> showing that the Accubond is right there with the VLD in every way out at longer ranges, or you can take my word for it. But it is. CERTAINLY out to the 500-600 yards you mention.

The OP didn't specify but I have to think he's not a super-long-range guy, or he'd have posted this on the LR hunting forum.

At any rate, ballistically the two bullets are nearly identical, and the Accubond is generally a fast killer. The stuff I've killed with them or seen killed was fairly dramatic, and the wounds are pretty damn brutal. The Accubond will shed fragments and it really does make for a pretty lethal bullet.

For a PURE long range setup perhaps the VLD makes the most sense; I don't know, I've never used them. I seriously doubt that's what the OP is talking about here. For a rifle set up for 6 yards to 600 yards, the 200-gn Accubond makes ALL kinds of sense, if the choice is just the VLD vs. the NAB.

My 300WM is running those NAB's exclusively. I can tell you, they are a very accurate, consistant bullet. Give me a few seconds and I will pelt any vitals-sized target you got out to 600+ yards. Great bullet.

Jeff_O,
Your arguments are compelling and make good sense, but I was refering to ranges BEYOND 500 or 600 yards. At ranges below these the difference is negligable with a slight advantage to the accubond due to it's superior penetration. As stated above I have never used accubonds so I don't know what their performance is like on game, but you and others have all reported very good results.

Now, if one wanted the ability to shoot beond 600 yards with consistent performance I would still have to say that the hands down choice would be the Berger VLD. At longer ranges the increase in BC starts to make an ever increasing difference not only in trajectory, but more importantly (because range is usually known so trajectory can be compensted for)in retained velocity. Also Accubonds may be very accurate, especially if sorted for consitency by the loader, but given the same practices for each bullet, I would say that the VLD on average is most likely more accurate, if only slightly so which would make an ever increasing difference as ranges lengthen.

I can not back up that claim of accuracy because as I have stated, I have never used accubonds.

I've shot 3 elk with accubonds. One at 503 yards THS with a 200g NAB from a 300 RUM. Bullet went nearly all the way through length wise and was recovered weighing 130 grains with about a .6" diameter just under the skin in front of the shoulder. It smashed the femur just below the hip ball on the way in and drove through the paunch, liver and one lung. I lost a bit of one hind quarter but it worked.

The other 2 elk were both taken with 180's from my 30-06. One at 375 yards and one at about 50 yards.

The 180's work but I'm starting to lean towards the 200 and might work up a load for them in the 30-06 with RL17. I really like the 200g AB. It's accurate, flat shooting, opens wide and still drives pretty deep.

I'm setting up my new 300 wsm for 200g AB's and 208g Amaxes. Hope to be able to report on the Amax on game this fall.

Bb

I agree with all of that. Well said.

Sorry wyoelk, just looked to me like you figured the 200 grainer in a RUM wasn't up to snuff. No need to comment on anything read, I know a thing or two about killin stuff with Accubonds. So, I'll say there is no downside to a 200 grain Accubond in a .300 RUM. mtmuley

I much prefer the terminal performance of the VLD bullet. I my experience it kills better, both close and far.

That being said anyone who has a hard time killing an elk with either bullet might look more to his shooting than the bullet.

Thank you. That was my point. You KNOW about Accubombs. I dont see you on here mouthing off about how VLD's suck. You have experience.

Jeff has killed one or two elk and feels to be an expert on a bullet he has never sent into an elk.

I have seen the accubond fail to impress me on two occasions. I have put VLDs into more elk than Jeff has killed in one year alone. Lets get real and talk about actual experience, not reading bullshit somewhere.

Come on Jeff.... tell us about the elk you have put a VLD into. Chirps? You state the accubond is better, tell us why based on your real world observations.

With the AB, you give up nothing and it opens up the shot angles some. Why not do that?

In a more open area (like, say, Wyoming) I might give a VLD a run. Setting a bomb off in an elk's chest, isn't a bad thing.

You know this to be a fact, HOW?

What exactly, John?

I'm working on relaxing on my first day off in awhile, and the last for another long while.....give me an hour or three. Crown and Ice. (sorry Ingwe)

These arguements usually get nowhere. John Burns loves the VLD, claims it kills faster. That's a pretty broad statement. (guess someone needs to get a stopwatch out) I've hammered a lot of critters with the Accubond. I know it kills well. It is all in what you are comfortable with. I KNOW 200 grain Accubonds will smash through an elk end to end when fired in my rifle. I like that. I'm sure VLD's do what all you guys say. It is interesting the energy the VLD guys expend trying to convince non-believers though. mtmuley

Some bullets, the reports are all over the map. Sierras come to mind. Core-lokt.

But not the VLD's. It's unanimous, and from many credible sources, how they work. And for some uses I could see them being the BOMB!

But at least to my way of thought, for a general purpose elk rifle, a bullet that penetrates 2-3" then blows up isn't what *I* want.

With flight ballistics a wash between the two I'll take the Accubond's terminal ballistics over what everyone reports about the VLD. I've killed two elk and two deer with AB's and seen another couple elk. They work. And a .30-cal 200 grainer is a lot of bullet.

Glad to hear it's worked for you, mtmuley! I've used the .30/180 and the 8mm/200 on game, so I've got the .30/200 pretty well surrounded <grin> but haven't killed with it yet.

All that said I'm not "badmouthing" the VLD (as wyoelk put it) in any way here. Dunno why some guys get to acting like you kicked their dog or something.

Well I do have a stopwatch. We record 30 frames per second on the video cameras and it really is simple, No contest, VLD wins.

Does it really matter to the individual hunter? Maybe not.

Does it matter when you are showing to footage to a nationwide audience?

Yea I think so.

I do stand by my earlier statement that any elk hunter who has a problem bagging an elk with either bullet and under any conditions would be better off looking to his shooting before blaming the bullet.

Question for some on here.....

Does everybody have to put their hand on the hot stove to figure out it is hot, or did you have to touch the hot stove before you could tell your kids it was hot.

Some of you guys need to get a [bleep] live.....

..............You bring up some good points. However the reason it seems that sometimes us VLD guys expend more energy in trying to convince those non-believers, is because most of the non believers who post on these types of VLD threads, have NEVER used the VLDs themselves on elk sized game, or on other game,,,,AND won`t.

All of my dead hogs + one bull elk, were each killed with one shot from a VLD, many through thick bone including the one elk, and all of which needed no tracking.

Yep! That hunting VLD bullet is for sure, nothing more than a damn paper punchin bullet!

Guess I must be putting my Accubonds in the right spot. I'm not having to do the "tracking" being talked about. Like I said, it's comfort. As far as a nationwide audience, it's easy to show how a bullet works when the kill is instant. Not showing the bad hits is probably easy too. My 190 VLD load will group under 1/2 inch. So will my Accubond load. I just can't seem to chamber a VLD for elk hunting. I actually was going to use them on antelope last year, and took a couple shots at extended range, but I was using a computer generated drop chart, but not made using actual in the field info. After a couple misses, I decided shooting at live critters with obviously flawed info wasn't a good idea. Maybe this year. mtmuley

.........Put any good quality bullet in the right spot, the animal is going down. The question is how far the run will be after the impact. Given the same shot placement on the same game with the same bullet of the same weight, same caliber, same impact velocity, the reaction can go from one way in dropping the animal right there or in the other direction where the game might scamper 50-100-150 yards or whatever.

Vs conventional bullets, the VLDs explode the vitals. When the vitals are massively and widely disrupted, the animals will go down faster a greater percentage of the time reducing the running distances after impact. Does that mean that ALL VLD kills will immediately drop the game as in a DRT 100% of the time? No it does not. What it does do, is simply play for the higher percentage for more rapid kills.

And if any other bullet besides a VLD were to have a nationwide audience, they too can also have good hits and the bad hits. So if a hunting show were edited to reflect only the well placed hits and not the poorly placed hits on game, then is that the fault of the VLD or any other bullet which happens not to have been well placed? I don`t think so.

If you`re having trouble for some reason chambering the 190 VLD for hunting, then try the 210. At 300 RUM velocities, it won`t make that much difference assuming you can use to 210.

I only have one Berger kill under my belt(More to come this year), so my experience on VLD's is limited.

It sure left a nice exit hole though.

My experience is that the Berger VLD does indeed kill quicker than any other bullet I've ever seen used on big game. This isn't based on time, but how far animals have traveled after being hit.

That said, AccuBonds tend to knock the snot out of them as well, and definitely penetrate much deeper.

Stoney nice buck...Alberta?

Hey John, when does the new Barnes LR bullet testing start?

I bet a VLD would've put my little bull down faster. He ran 75 yards or so. Note the exit wound location; I nuked one lung pretty good but just caught the back of the other one...

I've no doubt a VLD will kill quicker than many other bullets of similar weight and caliber when broadsides are the case. Hit an elk in the ham on a line to the vitals, though, and I'll bet on some of those other bullets.

When those "other bullets" tend to drop elk straight down on a broadside, they get my vote to go in the chamber. What happens when things go right isn't what I worry about.

............Look at Jeff O`s above elk pic. You can easily hit an elk quartering to or quartering away at about 30-35 degrees or so and hit any elk`s vitals with a VLD.

Rear ham shots? Not for the VLDs.

VLDs don`t need a perfect broadside or perpendicular shot in order to be extremely effective. The VLD`s explosive fragments penetrate another 15" to 18" or so after their initial 2" or 3" of penetration.

On the other hand, the cow elk I killed that year might've been an interesting test for a VLD. She was steeply uphill from me and the bullet hit the "elbow"- which is a very solid mass of bone- before entering the chest. There was even some air time between elbow and re-entering the elk' chest.

The Accubond did great, smashing through the elbow then going kind of diagonally through the chest to the hide at the base of the neck on the other side.

Bigsqueeze or John Burns or JB- any gut feeling what a VLD would have likely done in this case?

How about the 250gr AB out of a 338RUM or the 338Edge?

.575BC and a higher SD than the 200gr 30caliber AB.

It works well on 'roos........have never tried it on elk though

What I get outta these discussions are two things:

Both bullets kill elk;and

Elk are not hard to kill if you hit them right

Me,I'll just continue to use Partitions and Bitterroots.Both maybe old school but I have done little chasing myself over the years using these.

And as already noted, the lack of chasing probably has much less to do with your bullet choice than "other factors."

smokepole is that what Blair meant with the little smirky-face?

I thought he didn't like my old bullets...LOL!

squeeze, I'm not having trouble actually chambering a VLD, just can't seem to risk using one on a bull. Like I said, I bet the VLD is great, but the "faster kill" doesn't concern me as I have seen elk go dead plenty fast with the Accubond. Lots of em. The extra couple seconds ain't gonna matter. The OP would do well with either it seems. mtmuley

I have no idea what he meant, I don't know what those little guys mean, except this one:

That's prety much where I come form on the issue as well. While the VLDs may KILL an elk quicker with a broadside hit, I just dont trust them to penetrate on bad angles, especially the lighter, faster variety. Will VLDs drop elk significantly faster than other bullets? You tell me:

7mm Rem Mag, 160g Grand Slam, 6x5 bull elk, straight down (2000)
7mm Rem Mag, 160g Grand Slam, 5x5 bull elk, straight down (2002)
7mm Rem Mag, 160g Grand Slam, cow elk, 40 yards (2002)
.45-70, 350g North Fork, 6x6 elk, straight down (2003)
.300 Win Mag, 180g North Fork, cow elk, 25 yards (2006)
.30-06, 165g North Fork, cow elk, straight down, back up and straight down again on 2nd shot (2007)
.30-06, 165g North Fork, cow elk, straight down, back up and straight down again on 2nd shot (also 2007)
.30-06, 150g AccuBond, cow elk, straight down (2010)

I've spent the last three years trying to help my son-in-law get his first elk. He did so last year, 2010, a cow at 363 yards with a .300WM and a 180g Winchester Power-Point. It was on the ground before he recovered from the recoil.

My opinion, and as I've said before, the only way a VLD could have dropped them significantly faster is if they started to drop before the shot...

After using most every bullet out there in different calibers and the one non premium I used the most was the Sierra and a killer it was when everything was just right..

If you hunt Elk long enough,you will find out, you don't always get the perfect shot and that's when you separate the men from the boys in the bullet world...

I totally agree with Coyote Hunter..A bullet that will work in all circumstances is a small price to pay on an expensive endeavor anyway.I have never used the VLD and see no reason to even try them when Noslers will do everything I want out of a bullet,every time,so far.

Jayco

.............My gut feeling is that a VLD would have done just fine.

My last elk was impacted on the right side shoulder. The 30 cal 190 VLD from my 300 WSM carbine @ 328 yards, penetrated not only the thickest part of the bone, but there were quite a number of bullet fragments found just below the hide on the opposite side, guessing a full 20" to 22" of total penetration from side to side.

When discussing shooting angled concerns on elk for example, and when one has a good 30-35 degrees going either way, meaning either quartering to or quartering away, that`s a good 60 to 70 degrees of total lee-way to play with, which the VLD is very capable of penetrating to elk vitals given those angles.

Even before I started using the VLDs, my shooting angles on all my previous elk kills (9), were always within those angled ranges. But regardless of bullet, I have never killed any game at extreme angles when quartering away and won`t.

Part of stalking, is also trying to achieve good angled positioning for the shot. In that regard, perhaps the VLDs are a little more challenging, which is certainly OK by me.

..................I do have something a little similiar. See below.

Don`t plan on using VLDs for elk all the time.

Had Jack O'Conner/Elmer Kieth and Jack Atcheson only had the berger VLD at hand,we would be a changed population of Elk Hunters and thoughts.Nerxt thing you know,every Elk Guide in the USA is going to require Bergers to hunt.....Easier on the guides and horses when it is a bang/flop and your dead on the spot....

Yeah right

How many years have some of you guys been hunting?

Jayco

..........Been hunting awhile; nearly 50 years.

Speaking of which. Someone posted on here (don`t remember whom), that there is one or possibly two elk outfitters, who in fact reco only using the VLDs to their clients on elk hunts.

Maybe the person who posted that info can let us know who the outfitter or outfitters are? Maybe a good idea to quiz them and find out why? Thinking outside the traditional box, isn`t always a bad thing.

I like you and Burns...Atleast we can talk without throwing names at each other...My take and yours differ but who really cares?I ain't changing and i bet you fellers ain't either.

Never understood why any experienced hunter would try and change anothers opinion on what works....

To each his own....

Jayco

No Bob, I was in total agreement with you, mate.

I just liked the fact that you lobbed Bitteroots into this thread! I reckon they would have to be one of the greatest bullets of all time.

And with regard to slotting an elk, I think I would use a 210 Scirocco out of my 338RUM......it goes 3230fps with RL-22 and it has a BC of .507. It clobbered three Oryx in a row, including one at 640 yards........and I'd say a Oryx is as tough as an elk, just not as big in the body.

Blair, I suspected that and was only joking...

A pal called from Amarillo,TX last night to ask me what I thought about Swift Scirrocco's for African plains game, and wants to talk about it today sometime......I really don't know as my use of them for animals is limited.....and I've not been to Africa......

Got any thoughts on them? I suspect he is talking 30 cal in a 300 WSM or 30/06.

Anyone else have any thoughts/ experience with the SS II's?

This could be a new thread, I'm interested in hearing about experience with the 6.5 mm. 130 grainers.

Published BC of .571.

��and won�t�? That�s what I used to say as well, until I took an angling away shot on a muley buck that turned and stepped forward just as the trigger broke. An easy angling shot suddenly became a near-90-degree shot with a hit to the right ham.



Full agreement there regarding the stalking and I�ve let lots of animals walk when I couldn�t get the shot I wanted. (As well as quite a few where I had the shot and just decided not to ruin a perfectly good hunt with a lot of hard work, but they don�t count for anything in this context.)

�Work hard for the best and plan for the worst� has saved my butt more than a few times. Failing to do so has caused me a lot of unnecessary grief. I much prefer the former.

"turned and stepped forward just as the trigger broke"

Doggone things move don't they? A moving target will mess up the best planned shot...

I'll second those Bitterroot Bullets and still have some left in a 200 grn for the ole .300 Win mag, I wish they were .338 caliber but so much is life.

Tonk: I had a good number of 200 and 225 338 BBC's but sold them when I stopped shooting 338

But I got plenty of 375's