do you really feel that the rifle combo your using for hunting elk is really about the best match you can get or afford, and have you ever been in a situation using your rifle where you knew you were at a disadvantage?
are you thinking thru your rifle choice?
have you ever jumped elk or deer and found the rifle you held was not as fast and easy to use as a shotgun for shooting flushing birds?
we always hear about and discuss long range accuracy, but having a fast handling rifle that you can snap shoot effectively, without thinking about it, some rifle that fits you so well you could have a reasonable chance at hitting game at almost an unconscious response level, and having the ability to put out a fast second shot can at times be useful.
back in the early 1970s, When I was first starting out all the magazines were filled with guys using bolt actions with 3x9x scopes who made 300-700 yard shots, and the 270 win, 7mm remington mag and 300 wby and 300 win,were constantly shown as the ideal elk calibers to use in those magazines.
but talking to guys out in the hunt area, I frequently saw and heard about guys with scopes that failed to hold zero, I constantly ran into guys that could not hit what they were shooting at, and I found that the properly cleaned and lightly lubed pump action WAS faster and easier to use,and lighter in weight than the bolt guns, some of my friends had, and those 760 30/06 rifles were less likely to have problems.
I was really lucky when I started hunting elk to have several very experienced mentors , and while being young and having read a ton of elk hunting articles I tended to think some of their advice was a bit behind the times, the longer I hunted the more I saw the wisdom of the choices they made, in both equipment and hunting methods.
now I got invited to go on my first out of state elk hunt when I was about 18, and that previous summer Id spent nearly every weekend at the range, most of my mentors had and used Remington 760 30/06 rifles with either peep sites or 4x scopes with receiver peep sites as a back-up and when I asked why I was told that the area we would be hunting in was rather steep rolling timber slopes, ranges would seldom exceed 200 yards and to buy and use peters 220 grain soft point ammo sighted in to hit 3" above the point of aim at 100 yards.
sighting in that way put the bullets dead on at 200 yards.
these rifles were fairly light weight, and rarely had any problem maintaining zero, and trust me rifles get dropped, guys slip and fall and scopes rarely held up in those days many fogged or broke, so use of peep receiver sites made sense.
every year I went with the group several members took elk, and that was off public hunting areas, I had looked into published statistics and most guys averaged about a 18%-25% success , most of our trips we were getting closer to a 45%-50% success ratio, and it eventually dawned on me why, we were hunting as a TEAM, and having rifles that were very dependable, that offered fast repeat fire capability and common ammo helped results, but the main thing was that as a group we planed both where and how we would hunt each drainage, each day, and we never made the mistake of just repeatedly hunting the same drainage day after day, each night we discussed what we had seen, and got out topo maps and moved to a new area if we were not seeing lots of fresh elk sign, and at least some elk.
we would get up pre-dawn, and drop two guy teams off about a 1/2-3/4 mile apart,so each two man team, would enter a drainage and push game around so each hunter effectively raised the odds the others might see game.
we rarely shot huge bulls but we did usually have many guys fill tags with legal elk.(remember this was all public hunting areas)
it was common to hear a couple very quick shots in rapid succession, and later in the day find out one of our group had an elk down.
I just knew that a WEATHERBY magnum would help increase, my chances of getting an elk,so I purchased a 340 weatherby after pouring over ballistic chart, info, and while its been an excellent and effective rifle,but its long, fairly heavy and slightly slower to use than the remington 760/7600 and its been decades since Ive shot an elk past 300 yards, and while it does seem to drop game faster those old 30/06 rifles killed game just as effectively, with a single well placed shot, and with less recoil, cost and with less concern about getting scratched or dropped.

I believe I do. As someone who just hunts high timber. I need a fast handling gun. In the past that was always a Winchester 94 in 30-30.

Now i've moved to the muzzleloader season. I looked and tried many muzzleloaders before picking what I have now. I wanted it light and fast handling. It also had to be weather proof and reliable.

i went with the new released CVA Mountain Rifle. I put a 1.5x5x32 scope on it, and pretty much leave it on 1.5x for quick acquisition. We'll see how she does this year in the timber for elk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ZDHYx484Q&feature=player_embedded

Good god...

Welcome to your nightmare....

I will agree, Good God!

I'm not a mind reader, so who are these posts aimed at, and why?

For what?

I suppose when I use the 30-30 and more recently the 45-70 Guide Gun,I may have been at a disadvantage range wise but certainly not caliber size.Move up to the 5-600 yard shooters and the rifle is at a disadvantage, because I won't take those shots in the country I hunt.

So I guess the answer is no.

Jayco

Please clarify. If you are going to be condescending you should explain yourself.

340Mag is going back in experiences and asking if we have ever felt under gunned or scoped in our years of hunting with different calibers we have used over the years for Elk....

I never have gone Elk hunting with a caliber not capable of putting them down but I have limited my range using calibers like the 30-30/32 Special/35 Remington/.300 Savage/30-40 Krag and 45-70.

Jayco

I went to a 338 magnum for a couple of seasons, then a 300 Win mag and then back to my 30-06. The first two were factory rifles and the 30-06 is a custom rifle built for me and yes it handles just fine and I don't have to eject the round in the chamber to get it back in the magazine when I get in the truck (1903 Springfield). I did not find the bigger cartridges killed any better, barrels were too long for easy getting in and out of trucks and recoil with the 338 was not comfortable in some field positions. I am testing my new Niche rifle this year, a semi custon 35 Whelen on a mauser action. It's niche is timber.

I couldn't get through two sentences.

I suppose I have hunted with less than the perfect rifle. At times it has been due to economics, and at other times I intentionally limited myself for the challenge. Have I ever lost an opportunity due to the hardware? I doubt it.

Suggestion: Try some punctuation and capitalization next time...it makes it SO much easier for the rest of us!

The opp asked us to think back on our history of Elk hunting to see if any of us ever thought we felt under gunned at anytime in our past hunting Elk....

Pretty simple regardless of grammar sensitive folks.Not aimed at anyone in particular.Those so hot on condemning someones grammar would have been shot to death on the Lewis Clarke invasion of Indian territory.

Jayco

Here, let me clarify for Tanner:

BSA

That was a valid question if you think back......How many years have you been Elk hunting carrying a weapon?Did you ever feel under gunned from the beginning, whenever that was?

340mag contributes alot on this forum through experiences he has been through and his friends that go way back, if you read his post.

Those that knock this thread evidently can't go way back to the beginning of there Elk hunting experiences or don't have any at all or they would understand the post.

Jayco

I never felt under-gunned until I lost a couple of elk that I hit right where I was aiming. After that, I paid a lot more attention to bullet construction--and still do. I would go back (and have done so) to the cartridge that I used on the two elk that I lost, but would definitely not use the same bullets or bullets of similar construction.

There are many times I chose a rifle that put me at a disadvantage compared to others I could have chosen. Dad gave me a Browning B92 in .44 Mag back in the mid-1980�s and I hunted elk and deer with it one day each year for many years. Passed up on a huge bull one year that was standing facing at 100 yards. Let it walk for a lot of reasons but doubting the .44 Mag at that range wasn�t one of them. Since then I�ve hunted with a .30-30, .375 Winchester and 257 Roberts � none of which provide the same capability as my 7mm RM, other .30 caliber rifles or my .338WM. Took a 6x6 bull with my .45-70 at 213 yards and would have gone to 300 but it doesn�t provide the same capability either.

Am I thinking through my rifle choice? Absolutely. This year I might take the .30-30 or .375 Winchester again � they are light , handy and fun to carry and if doing so costs me an animal, oh, well. It isn�t about the killing for me, it�s about the experience.

Ok...I get that. I also get that as we get older (ok...old) we tend to get less tolerant of people. We get impatient because we have dealt with a certain level of people for a long time and can get tired of their rhetoric.

That is the negative side of a nice guy like Tanner being on this board. He starts to replicate what he sees and thinks its appropriate.

An old guy does it...that's cantankerous but comes with a lifetime of dealing with people. A teenager does it, that is arrogant and he has learned it from people who may have an excuse for the way they are. He is just doing it because the "old guys" are.

My experiences pretty much mirror Coyote Hunter's Some rifles like the 44 mag, 45-70 or Muzzle Loader I accept thier limitations.Undergunned? NO. I have kille elk with them all.

Very well said!

Jayco

Or it could be that dumbazzes like Jailbird could drive Mother Teresa to child abuse and Mr. Rogers to cuss.

In the least..

The times I"ve hunted elk, I could go from wrong to right rifle for the instance a number of times in a day....

So you pick and compromise.

Thats about the bottom line for me. Caliber choice has a lot to do with do I want to accept passing a shot due to angle, distance etc...

And if the gun is too slow to get into action, then at least for me, the game is moving too fast anyway, last thing I"ll do is take an instant shot. Probably why I still have not tagged an elk too. Too many things to verify for me personally before I pull a trigger.

For me, if all I have is a rock and a tag in my pocket when I get into elk, I'm going to figger out how to kill one with what I've got.

And your the one that replied to me that you don't know chit about Elk hunting?

Stick to rocks and then and only then,you will be a rock star!

Jayco

Until I sprout horns from my head, I will always try to learn more about hunting those critters.

If I road hunted in tennis shoes like you, I wouldn't have to worry about it, I guess.

So, are you able to even carry a gun anymore with all the time you've been spending in jail?

It's just crazy that guys that have hunted and killed a bunch of elk still sweat stuff like this. But, I understand that the season is damn close and we're all getting anxious

I'll make a little wager..If I can't bench press your weight atleast 15 times,I will kiss your azz publicly.Take me up on it......

This talk is crazy but you brought it on and I am tired of your pokes and jabs.

For the good of the forum....Knock it off and be a man!

Jayco

Saved for posterity

I smell a push up contest.

Jailbird doesn't do push-ups, he does Earth push downs.

For the record....

I reached out to great wapoozy in a pm to keep the trash talk off the forum and I quote.



And the reply was like a man............



What can I say..I tried to keep the form/topics free of this chit but a man can only take so many bashings without some kind of reply.

Jayco

What was your address again? Home, not the county lock-up.

I'm not going to say it publicly but if you pm me when you will be in Grangeville Idaho,I will be here regardless of hunting season and such.

Why in the hell don't you pm me this chit if your serious and keep it off the forum....I would gladly go to jail for you!

Jayco

i'll third the 'good god'

selecting gear is ALL about balancing the compromises. optics, rifles and cartridge selection are all compromises, or we'd all have .338 Ultras that weighed six pounds and kicked like a .22 LR. same with scopes, we'd have 30X scopes with a mile of FOV and six inches of eye relief.

and old guys are not immune to ignorance.

Is that the trailer park where he's been chicken hawking?

After this post..I am done with this..Either you or loco will grow some balls and do the right thing and be a man or shut up....

I will not take posting like this from you or loco....



Bring it like a man...Either of you...You are a disgrace to this great forum.........

Jayco

Better hope he doesn't weigh 400lbs.

That's the kind of bet that gets made in the county rec-yard, only there losses (and probably wins too) involve showers.

Can you keep that homo ass rider chit in jail?

I feel I got the rifle end of things pretty figured out and it isn't very hard. I could use many different combos and not be handicapped.
Given this I try to invest most of my time in learning to think like an elk and sending rounds down range with the clubs I got.

Can you be a man and back up your mouth?

Whomever questions my address,please pm Big Redhead and ask him as he and his lovely family and friends came to my house and I showed them where to hunt Elk and they all were a joy......I brought them firewood and told them where the Elk were..I couldn't hunt that year so I wanted to share my area with someone who never has shot an elk.....Luck was not on there side but they saw elk.

Loco and Wapoozy are both cowards behind the keyboard macho men.

Jayco

In all seriousness, I think there are times when guys have perfectly adequate equipment, but their skills haven't been honed enough. I've been guilty of spending too much time worrying about silly stuff when I could be out shooting my rifles and getting in top shape for the season, and that's been something I really tried to focus on this year.

If I can feel like my hunting rig is an extension of my body, then I'm all good to go.

Where are you, you little piece of.I can be a prick also but I will never be called a "Boy [bleep]"..Seems this chit gets by on this forum for some reason beyond my comprehension.

So if you can do it,so can I or anyone else.

PM Big Redhead then come visit you coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jayco

Tanner

Your a nice guy but don't get a big head..Elk hunting experience comes from hunting Elk year after year.You can't get it off the net however bright you are.

I have 6 kids from 44 to 23 and sometimes they also think they know it all until I bring up past hunting experiences with them.I taught them all along with my dad, how to shoot and how to hunt when my dad was an outfitter,so to speak.

They listened young and new it all in there teen aged years.That's life...

Don't get your hooks into any method until you have been there done that regardless who tells you on the net.

Good luck to you,young man..Keep an open mind and see things for yourself.

Jayco

What do you mean, a big head? I stated that I've been guilty of not practicing enough and worrying about things other than doing so. I'd say that's quite the opposite of big headed.

Each time I hunt with someone new I try to keep my mouth closed and ears open, and it's served me so far. I don't hunt elk on the internet...

Nearly two years prior to my first elk hunt in 2001, I ordered a Remington Custom KS/SS Mountain Rifle in .300 RUM. This choice was made after prior careful consideration of my existing rifles versus a new rifle was heavily influenced by the wow-factor following the release of the .300 RUM chambering in 1999. I topped her off with Dave Gentry rings/bases and a Leupold Vari-XIII 2.5x-8x. All in all, this rifle choice was a theoretical, leap-of-faith combination of capability, affordability and portability.

During break-in and initial use, the muzzle blast (due to the chambering and muzzle brake) took some getting used to. This was offset by the fact that she printed tiny, cold/clean bore or warm (3-shot groups) with no shift in point of impact.

Proper mounting/positioning of the scope and frequent practice helped make target acquisition nearly automatic, as did remembering to keep the scope on 4-power most of the time, 2.5 in heavy cover or on final approach to downed game, and on 8 only prior to making shots that needed it and also allowed for adequate preparation time to turn the dial.

With her 26� barrel and added muzzle brake, this rifle easily became my longest rifle and thus the most �clumsy� in heavy cover. Two things cured me of that bias:

First, I realized that the �clumsy� RUM was a half-inch shorter than my trusty wingshooting 12 ga. Remington 870 with her 26� barrel, which I�d never complain about in heavy cover. At a well-balanced 8 pounds scoped and slung, the weight of the RUM was not an issue either.

Secondly, I forced myself to use the RUM for all of my rifle hunts prior to my elk hunt. We didn�t get drawn in 2000, so until November 2001, it was what I carried here. In addition to range time, this practical field/hunting use made it feel as natural as my trusty older .308, 7mm-08, .270, etc.

A year and a half on the calendar may not seem like a lot of hunting to some, but here in Hawaii, we�re blessed with ample game, generous bag limits and various rifle hunting seasons on public land throughout the course of the year, in addition to even more liberal hunting on private land (daily, year-around). In other words, my RUM got more than ample hunting use, equal to many seasons for some of my friends living in the CONUS.

Admittedly, she was a bit cumbersome for swim-in hunts or climbing cliffs after goats. One of my Model Sevens (7mm-08 or .308) would have been better for that!

With lessons from real-world use, I made some upgrades over the years to make the rifle even more ideal:

(1) To help with longer shots and private range practice to 650 yards, I upgraded the scope to a Leupold VX3 3.5x-10x with custom reticle - 300 yard zero, with dots out to 600 and the reticle post as a final mark.

(2) To make the stainless steel even more resilient and to smooth the internals, I had Robar NP3 the whole thing.

She�s gone on 6 public land elk hunts, harvesting 4 elk - feeding at 150 yards, bedded at 400, running at 80 and standing at 661. I guess I�ve been fortunate with her from concept, purchase, break-in, and so-on, all the way to the present.

I just wanna know when Colorado began allowing scopes during muzzleloader season?........

Meanwhile back at the ranch, I can't figure out whose mad at who in this thread.......how the heck can a guy take sides?........

Tanner:
M700 with a short LOP classic style stock with or without a cheekpeice and 22 inch bbl, with a reasonable variable set at lowest power in low mounts. A little judicious polishing of the action/bolt, "tune" the safety, and a "flat knob" safety lever from the M700 "carbine" years--generally around 6 3/4 lbs all up.

I've been jump shooting elk in the spruce/fir blowdown for 40+ years--I've killed more elk at 40yds than I've killed at 400 yds........


Casey

They don't. My vision has become so poor the DOW gave me a licence to use a scope in ML season. They have a form that your eye doctor fills out. I'm real picky about taking humane shots, and I didn't feel I could do it with fuzzy iron sights anymore. I've used iron sights all my life, and it's like losing an old friend to not use them now, but you have to do what you have to do. I'm not giving up hunting. If they had said no. I would have just used the scoped ML in rifle season.

I should have remembered that--I knew a gent some years back who went through the same process to use a scope.


Casey

I'm glad they have the option. I really like the ML season.

He's just pissed that you actually hunt instead of sitting around the campfire in your tennis shoes, swilling PBR, and telling the same old lies.

Jayco, I have a serious question. If you live in a trailer, do you stay in someone's house when you go "camping"?

Curiosity strikes,. What is the cartridge and what were the bullets?

Watch it, you're going to stroke out, old man..

It's a sickness.
My first rifle was a 7600 Gamemaster 30-06 with a 4x Bushnell,packed that rifle 10 seasons,killed lots of game. My Uncle Bill packed a .338 win mag,watched him drop a bull accross a canyon with it.... the sickness began.

BBJ

I try to match my rifle to the area I'm hunting.
My all purpose rifle is a nice little 338-06 with a 3X9 compact Leupold. For hunting the sage flats or evening setting up over a long meadow I bring out a 338 WM wearing a 3.5X10 Leupold. Heavy timber or hard snow falling I go to my Stainless 45-70 Guide gun with a red dot sight
All three are in camp every year.

I like to hunt elk with a singleshot Sharps or Ballard loaded with blackpowder, paper patched bullet and sighted with a vernier tang sight.

While a lot of folks would not consider that an optimal rig, I like it, and I haven't missed an opportunity that a .338 Lapua SuperDuper Mag or the like would have made possible. Don't see the need for that sort of stuff myself.

On day 7 of a cascade elk hunt after hunting on foot all day everyday after each mornings 2 mile uphill hike in the dark to get into active elk areas. Packing a 9 lb plus ruger 300win mag. I jumped a big bull at under 50yds had time to get the crosshairs on its shoulder and tell my trigger finger to do its deed. Miss. On the long stalk I had that rifle in my right hand, when the oportunity came. My hand was dead from packing that 9 lb plus boat anchor. I still use a 300 win mag in the cascades, but it is a 20" barreled vangard in a carbilite stock at about 7 lb. Better balance, fits better in the hand and still kills elk from every angle. Sometimes gaining that 1/4 second is very important

While hunting the open sage juniper in eastern oregon, I'm packing a 7mm rem mag with a 26" barrel 4.5-14x44 scope in a 8 lb plus package. It rides on a nice sling on my shoulder until i see elk. No real need to be fast most days on the high desert. It is a more surgical type weapon. See elk, get in range, set up, kill elk.

Cartridge/calibers are like golf clubs. Eash has its specific application. There are locales where a 45-70 with 405 grains slugs is perfect, and spots where a 30-378 can really reach out and touch someone.

If I have one of my rifles the elk is disadvantaged period... I guess that's what I love about archery, it's more even.

Kent

I give more thought to and about my old freezer, in the end it has everything that I have for a year.

For the original question.

No

Yes

Go 30-06 and you'll be OK regardless of game and country.

Nicely played.

Jayco must be doing another stint in the pokey. Either that or he stroked out somewhere.

As JSSP so clearly stated, YES/NO.

I have found that my 8 lb 300 win mag, is the perfect short/long range elk rifle. It kills elk just as good a 17 yards as it does at 428 yards. No need to change a thing.

So, what bullets were those?

Edited for clarity.

Just dodging fires here..Hows your luck going?

Can either of you pull a 72# bow back?



Jayco

Another picture from your local paper, jailbird?

How was the food in county lock up this time?

I have been on succesful elk hunting trips that took less time than what it takes to read the first post...

But your a stud......

Please don't forget there are some new members here that ask questions because.......They don't know....

You have to remember those days,right?

Jayco

You bet I'm rethinking. My current rifle disappoints me. It is accurate enough to 225-250 yards. It requires a slightly reduced load to achieve that level of accuracy, with near-max loads the groups open up so it's got 150 yard accuracy.

In fact, I have this year's elk season off work, but I'm not planning to buy a tag, instead, I think I'm going backpacking and fishing.

I've been through 10, maybe 12 elk-caliber rifles since I had one that was suitably accurate for general use. The cost and time and general frustration that goes along with that has really pushed me towards giving up elk hunting. I may give it one more try for next year ... and I may not.

Tom

nt

162-grain and 175-grain Hornady Interlock Spire Points in a 7mm Rem Mag.