I've got a horseback hunt for Elk in Idaho in October '06. The outfitter suggested I bring my .44 mag if I wanted to. I'm not sure its neccesary, but I got to thinking about the best way to carry on horseback. Would it be a shoulder holster, cross draw, OWB strong side carry? According to the outfitter weather will be cool, but it could warm during the day to 60's.

Wondering what you need a sidearm for? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My question exactly. The outfitter commented that it might be neccesary for a wounded animal. I don't think I want to be that close to a wounded bear. I am taking my .300 WM, and that will suffice. I was just asking for discussion purposes. Thanks

What unit?Sidearm..Maybe for the nasty Wolves that are multiplying like rabbits and bravor than ever..

I like a shoulder/belt combo for my .454.Makes it more secure than one or the other if a guy falls off whatever he is riding.

Jayco

If my outfitter was telling me to bring a sidearm for wounded game,I'd be finding a different outfitter!

ONny if you want to carry around another 4 lbs on your hip. Also, you don't want anything over 4" barrel, to carry on a hip holster. Anything longer, and they interfere with the cantle on the saddle.

They just aren't required. As for finishing off an animal, it's a lot lighter tpo carry an extra round for your rifle rather than a whole handgun and ammo.
As for bear protection. You had better be a darn good pistolero to put your life on the line with one.

Didn't mention my type of sidearm. I have a S&W 629 4in 44 mag. I didn't take the suggestion as a negativity. In talking about setting up the hunt I mentioned I usually carried a sidearm when hunting here in the east. He was just giving me the ok if I wanted to.

I carry either a 6" bbl .41 mag in a belt holster or a 7.5" bbl .44 mag in a shoulder holster. A hand gun with a 6" bbl is about the upper limit of what you carry with comfort on your belt.

There have been times I needed them to finish off an animal and they are handy when you need them. One time I had to pack out a deer on my back. This was in mt. lion territory & I definitely had a hand gun with me. Mine was out of ammo so I borrowed one. It is kind of hard packing a deer, carrying a rifle & looking for cats. There might be a time when you are seperated from your rifle for what ever reason when a handgun might mean survival or a salvaged hunt. This may sound like extremes but thing have happened. People have become lost and and seperated from their rifles. With a handgun you have the means to fire the universal sign of distress; three rapid shots. What happens if you are 6 miles from camp and your rifle has been damaged in a fall? As you are on your way back the buck of a lifetime appears at rock throwing distance. This may seem a bit far fetched but things like this happen every hunting season and with what a non resident has to pay a good handgun can be cheap insurance.

You can even carry a downloaded round for your .300 if you don't want to use a "full house" round for a finisher. Use a different style bullet or mark the cartridge so it doesn't get confused.

The only reason you'll need to bring a handgun is to keep someone from taking your rifle.

Assuming the elk is down, but "head up" after the first shot, get a really good rest and bust it again in the upper neck with your rifle.

Everything you carry elk hunting costs you and every single thing that you carry better be worth it's weight. A handgun isn't.

Steve

I like to carry a grenade launcher...

Yeah, but then you just have to bring grenades to make sure no one takes your handgun! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

hmmm, grenade launcher....

I don't wear a handgun when hunting unless I am handgun hunting, but I do tend to drop my ruger markII in my daypack. tom

While lion hunting on mules, I have occasionally carried a 4-inch S&W Model 629 in a "pancake" type belt holster that I bought from a South African holster maker 8 or 9 years ago. The pancake design keeps it high on your body and minimizes interference with other things that you are doing. On cool days, my brush jacket covers it and keeps it from catching on tree limbs and shrubs. When guiding (without a rifle), I carry a Model 66 with a 4-inch barrel and have found it perfectly adequate for finishing off wounded animals. It's considerably lighter and handier than the 629. I either use CorBons in factory loads or handloads with a 180-grain jacketed bullet.

Over the years, I have had a few guests that were somewhat overwrought by the time that they got an animal down. It was just easier for me to walk up to a disabled animal and put it down with a shot in the neck (not to mention safer).

I carried a S&W 629 4'' Mountain Gun loaded with Cast Performance 275 Gr. WFNPB LBT style bullets in a cross draw hip holster on both my pack in elk hunts. We did not use an outfitter, but trucked our own horses and gear to CO ourselves. I didn't actually hunt with the revolver on, but wore it on the pack in, pack out, and anytime we went anywhere on horseback. When hunting on foot out of camp, I left it in camp and only carried my rifle because like everyone here has said, every ounce makes a difference when you're on foot at 10,000 feet.

There were several reasons I carried it:

1. Wrecks with horses, while rare, do happen and I'd rather shoot one than be dragged by one.

2. Horses sometimes decide to leave the country with your rifle in the scabbard and rifles sometimes break. We were 9 miles from the trail head and back up rifles. If something happened to my rifle, I could walk back to camp, get my pistol, and keep hunting versus a long ride back to the truck for another rifle.

3. I actually like handguns more than rifles even though most of my hunting is with rifles. I liked having it with me. I would have no qualms finishing my hunt with a handgun.

If your packing in with horses, take it if you want to. You can always leave it in camp when hunting on foot. It's cheap backup to have around and much lighter than a backup rifle. On the other hand, I wouldn't take a handgun if I were backpacking in.

I just dont get this finishing off wounded animals with a handgun??

I just walk up to the animal, put the muzzle of my rifle a half dozen inches from its head or upper neck and touch off.

I always have my 7 1/2" Ruger SBH in crossdraw when horseback hunting for much the same reasons jds gives. If I were to part company with my horse in an unexpected manner, my rifle would be in-scabbard and not in my hands. I'd rather face one of our 12' brownies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> with a handcannon than a stick.

I don't know about the finishing off of animals with handgun either. But there certainly is nothing wrong with toting a handgun on any wilderness hunt. I have had so many strange things happen in the backcountry that the idea is not at all lost on me. I think its decent insurance -though not a substitute for good backcountry sense. I won't go into it but I can tell you a book is coming one of these days with which I will share my wild experiences with all who care to read. I'm just shaking my head even thinking about them. For all of you lucky enough to never see/need any of the wisdom in being over armed, I hope your good fortune continues. As for me, I don't currently own a handgun, but I would NEVER fault anyone from deciding that it may be a good idea. And, if $$$ were without limit I'd own one right now and carry it at least when I'm in the backcountry. Theres everything from hungry kitty cats/bears/wolverines and the occaisional fugitive on the run all of whci I have had the dubious pleasure of meeting in the most remote places. That I'm still alive is a mercy.

Ah Hell, you'll be in Elmer Keith country, why not carry one and your's is most appropriate. Maruading bears, runaway broncs, finishing off a big bull, or just "look cool" in a picture, if your willing to pack it have fun!!! Jared

I've hunted Idaho's rough stuff for over 40 years. There's NO WAY that I'm packing an extra gun up and down these mountains. If my rifle can't handle it, it doesn't need doing.

Dick

I don't have experience but I'm wondering if a shoulder holster would chafe too much. My mind's eye sees arms holding reins steady for hours while the body bounces up & down.

I am not taking a stance on this one. I have done both, and will be the first one to admit that one probably doesn;t need a sidearm in 99.9% of the cases. A rifle is far more potent, and if you fall hard enough to break it, I'd pray I am alive myself and move on. Still, I took a sidearm with me on more than one occasion. Why? Perhaps for the same reason we own way more rifles than we can use, or want another one still. Because it makes you feel good on that particular day. Becasue you gave your rifle to your kid to fill his tag, and don't want to be just a tourist in the woods. Or, because you are packing out meat in three trips and toting a rifle is too much, but a pistol makes your night time trip feel better. So, if you feel like it, take it. It is clearly not necessary (would you have cancelled a hunt if you didn't own one? No...), but if you like the idea, why not?
-P

I prefer to carry a sidearm either crossdraw or in a shoulder holster. I'ld rather do the up close finish shot with a handgun than have bullet shrappnel flying around from a pass thru with a highpowered rifle round, finding a rock underneath. Also there's less chance of splitting a good set of horns with a handgun round than a rifle round.
Plus if its legal there in Idaho carrying a few shotcapsuls for the 44 will make for some good eating if you happen into a batch of blue grouse. While full house cast bullets do an admirable job on grouse, you'll get more meat if you don't dead center the head when using shot, than when your aim is off just a tad with the regular bullet.

When riding, and NOT carrying a rifle, I do pack a side arm, for all the reasons mentioned. Particularly about maybe having to put a mule down if it breaks a leg or something.
In CO. it is illegal for your guide to finish off your animal.

1st rule of hunting with horses or mules. When you get off, take your rifle out of the scabbard, unless you have another rider along to either hold your mount ot go catch it.

Equines have a nasty habit of wanting to lay down and roll when they get sweaty. When you get off, even to take a whiz, they thinks it's time to roll. Crack goes your stock.

can't say I ever have walked up to an animal and had to finish it off . I think that mt goat I shot was the first and only animal with 2 holes in it and that was to keep it from jumping off a 90 ft cliff. Patience is key wait for the right shot and you'll only have to make 1.

I've done a "Tony Soprano" for a friend,but I didn't feel a sidearm was needed over the rifled slug gun I was hunting with.

At our place in south Texas, we all carry pistols. For rattle worms in warm weather and wetbacks yearround. Of course here in Texas, all adults are required to own at least one "sixgun". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The wetbacks may or may not be a danger but none of us wants to find out. One of the guys leaned his shotgun against the front bumper and walked to the back to get his decoys. When he turned with the decoys, there were five wetbacks standing in the ditch closer to his shotgun than he was. He put his hand on the grip of his 357 and turned so they could see it. The "leader" (not carrying water) looked at the shotgun, Roy and his hand. Then they all faded into the mesquite. Could have been nothing, could have been bad. One result is that Roy put a sling on his shotgun and will not walk away from it again.

I'm in JDS44's camp.

Speaking of having a wreck, when I lived in Calif., I got to know, and hunted with a man who was a wrangler/cowboy/farrier/muleskinner, etc., up in California's high Sierra. (He'd also worked cattle ranches in northwestern Nevada, and southeast Oregon.) He always carried a Ruger Security Six, 4" barrel, in .357 Mag., in a shoulder holster.

He told me that several years before, he'd been wrangling a string of mules out of Red's Meadow Pack Station in the Sierra, when there was a very bad wreck caused by some hornets trailside. After he finally got the mules and his horse straightened out, one of the mules had shattered a leg.

He had, over a period time, stopped carrying his Ruger, leaving it in camp. He had to kill the mule with his pocketknife. He told me, "I don't ever want to have to kill a mule or horse again, with a pocket knife."

So, thereafter, he said he never again was on a horse without that Ruger .357.

You want to pack it on your side on horseback, in and out of camp? Do so. You don't want to pack it while hunting? Leave it in camp with the cook.

Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
(Where have we heard that before?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> )

JMHO. L.W.

Ranch13 _ "Plus if its legal there in Idaho carrying a few shotcapsuls for the 44 will make for some good eating if you happen into a batch of blue grouse. "
__________________________________________________

Yep, it's legal, according to Id. F&G regs. I've killed Blue Grouse both with a .38 Special and .22LR, in revolvers.

L.W.

Most cowmen I know when and if they do pack a hundgun on a horse they just keep it in their saddle bag.

Leanwolf I used to carry 22 pistol instead of 44's and the like, back before Game and Fish decided that even if the critter was down and probably wasn't getting up , if you put the finisher in with a 22 , you were taking a big game animal with an illegal cartridge.
22's are much more grouse friendly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I'm carrying a rilfe or shotgun I leave the revolver at home - don't need the extra weight. If I'm bow hunting, I carry my 357 mag in a pancake high ride holster for my bear tag.

NH Hunter.

I'm completely with Saddlesore on this one (both posts). Having a sidearm with you as you ride is one thing -- long story, but had a pair of horses take off with my rifle (and $1000+ camera <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) in Alaska many years ago. By myself trying to track down the pair with friggin' grizzly tracks everywhere and NO means of protection, not even a knife -- I finally caught them and all was ok, but it wasn't exactly fun.

Wearing a 4lb revolver on your hip when you have a far more effective rifle in your hand? SCREAMS greenhorn (not our buddy Greenhorn, btw <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). Toughest part about coming across a pistol toting deer/elk hunter in the woods is waiting to laugh when you're not yacking with him.

In all honesty, i did it once with dilusions of grandeur, on my first Idaho muley hunt (Hell's Canyon <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />). What a friggin' idiot. 3200' of STEEP chit to get up to the "hunting" area. Glad I can laugh at myself too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

I agree with NH Hunter.... I only pack when hunting with a bow. I have a .380 Auto....Small little Semi.

IMHO, if you are going to carry horseback, day in and day out, shoulder holster is the way to go. This does not necessarily apply to the desert SW.

I'm a "handgun guy." I shoot IPSC and IDPA whenever I can and generally have a handgun close by at all times. I carry one scouting, fishing and bird hunting. But when it comes to elk hunting, there is no way. Every ounce counts and you will curse every extra ounce.

Twer it me I'd be for carrying a latte machine or a pizza machine b4 I tried to be Cowboy Bob and carry a sidearm on a rifle hunt.

Bow hunt maybe but then again I personally believe 99% of people are better off with pepper spray for protection.

Also I would do some serious thoughts about big time checking this dude out. If I had an outiftter tell me to bring a sidearm I personally would go another direction.

I'd be for betting he has issues.

Just my way of thinking

Mark D

Some of you seem to be missing some salient points that dutch made:

A) "I usually carr[y] a sidearm when hunting here in the east"
B) "In talking [to the outfitter] about setting up the hunt I mentioned I usually carried a sidearm ... He was just giving me the ok if I wanted to."

So don't accuse the outfitter of asking his client to bring a handgun.
So don't keep calling dutch, by association, a doofus - "Wearing a ... revolver on your hip when you have a ... rifle in your hand...SCREAMS greenhorn".


I'm thinking too many of these responses are from folks who don't do handgun hunting and so think carrying a major caliber sidearm odd. I myself am odd, but not because I like my pistols <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.
I shot my first blacktail with a .357 Blackhawk about 30 years ago and have killed a dozen or so head of big game [color:"red"](edited to add: with a handgun) [/color] since, including a 4-pt blacktail this past Fall with my 7-08 slung. My area presents many 250-300 yard shots, so a scoped rifle is the way to go, but in this case I saw the buck as I was walking to where I intended to sit to watch a hillside over 200 yards away - he was a target of (handgun) opportunity. Years ago I shot a hog at 300 yards with my .257 and then whipped around and nailed another, with my .44, as he ran by behind me. On another occasion, I was sitting against a tree, dually armed, and had a buck feed out of the trees and head towards me. As he got closer I wavered between choosing between rifle and revolver. The deer finally noticed me raising first one and then the other, swapped ends, and skedaddled. That decided me- I slammed the Bob to my shoulder and gave him a hot one raking through his chest. That experience, among others, has taught me that if I really want to do it with a handgun, I'd better leave the rifle at home. But I still carry both quite often, hoping for the greater challenge of shooting with the sidearm.

dutch686, if you want to carry one - dandy; and I won't call you a greenhorn because of it.
Someday I'll tell you about how comforting it was to be carrying a .45 the time I got lost, spent the night under an overhanging rock in the rain, and then wandered my way out the next day with a fogged rifle scope.

Now, can we get back to answering, "Would [the best way to carry] it be a shoulder holster, cross draw, OWB strong side carry?" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OK macwabbit-if the pistol is of shorter stature, in other words a 2-4" I would get a hold of El Paso Saddlery and have them make me a tortilla holster. That is what I had made for my 3" 44.

Now if the pistol is a 5" on up I would personally carry it in a shoulder holster.

Mark D

I would as soon carry a brick as a handgun elk hunting. And yes you would look like a greenhorn, but on the positive side you would provide someones elk camp with a humorous story.

Hey I'm not into hurking too much weight either but you all are making it sound like a handgun is a friggin anchor or something. Never would even give the weight a second thought for Elk or Deer. But then again, I'm always within 3-5 miles of base camp too with at least two people to help haul out the critter.

This is legal in Idaho, true. However, if you use the .22LR for a big game kill shot, you're illegal. If I'm hunting elk, though, I'm not about to throw lead at a grouse. A slingshot is a bit quieter and a WHOLE lot lighter to pack.

Dick

First of all thank all of you for your replies. Who knew a simple quesion would lead being callied a greenhorn. Guess what if that is what you western types want to call me go right ahead. This is my first and not last western hunt. Hopefully, after many years I will become supermen like all of you.

I am an east coast hunter, and carry a concealed pistol evey time I go out. There are lots of hunters, and most of them fine. I've met a few that made glad to have a pistol. I guess you guys out west don't have these problems. The arguments about weight make the most sense, and that is why I clearly stated that I didn't think it was neccesary to take a handgun. I'm not changing guides just because the guy told me I could bring it if I want to. What are you guys smoking??? Again I asked him about it because of the way I hunt in the east, and he said bring it if you want to. He was just trying to make a client comfortable. Please keep the disccusion going. I am learning from all the experience on the board.

The Greenhorn

When I asked what for you stated "good question thats what I asked him" Then you stated your guide said"it might be neccesary for wounded game" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Thats what he said. and your point is....? I don't think it will be worth taking for wounded game. I'm an out of shape computer geek so the weight is a big consideration. If there is a wounded animal I'll use the rifle. The real question for this discussion was if I were to carry a pistol on horseback what would the best way be. Just taking the opportunity to learn from others. Do what you will with the he said she said stuff.

(I'll grant that dutch686 allowed some of the digressions by dribbling out bits of info.)

Trust me it aint no different out here in the west in terms of the reasons you cited for carrying the sidearm. I have run into wayyyy scary toothless, criminal types out here with stories that would make your skin crawl. Almost been killed twice by criminals-old and young. Yeah-theres more wildlife out here than just the four legged type thats for certain. And personally I would rather deal with the bears or other predators anyday. Don't hesitate to carry your sidearm.

You asked for advise your get'in it.Many answered your ? on type of holster,I'm just saying I'd be leary of a guide telling me I need a side piece to finish off an animal.He should be telling you you don't need it but if you want you can bring it anyway and to practice with your rifle.I only reply on what you posted,Best of luck on your hunt

You're right. Sorry. Bad habit of not getting complete thoughts to the keyboard. Sorry for any confusion I caused.

Excellent, Mark.
(What's a tortilla holster? A border version of a pancake holster?)


LostHighway, you just as good as said that our sainted Elmer Keith looked like a greenhorn. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
He was fershur a goofy-looking bantam, what with the seegar and Elmer hat, but I'm guessing he'd take exception to being laughed at as a greenhorn.
NTM, my mommy always told me not to judge a book by its cover.

mac-yep you pretty got it.

Mark D

Macrabbit very good points made in that long speech.
Dutch don't worry about being called a greenhorn, pretty much takes one to notice one.
Rockchuck yes indeed a sling shot works, but when you're packing elk down the mtn and stop to rest abit, and the grouse are hanging around I'm reaching for the 44, or 45, or 41, or 357 or 22 or which ever other handgun I'm packing at the moment.
About half the comments I've seen here about why you shouldn't carry one sound a hell of alot like the same crap Chucky boy Shumer (D New York) always spouts off about why folks shouldn't be allowed to own a handgun.

You need a 22 for grouse if the season is open.

Other than that my handguns stay in camp or in the truck if I am on foot hunting in elk country.

[quote] Macrabbit very good points made in that long speech.
Dutch don't worry about being called a greenhorn, pretty much takes one to notice one.
Rockchuck yes indeed a sling shot works, but when you're packing elk down the mtn and stop to rest abit, and the grouse are hanging around I'm reaching for the 44, or 45, or 41, or 357 or 22 or which ever other handgun I'm packing at the moment.
About half the comments I've seen here about why you shouldn't carry one sound a hell of alot like the same crap Chucky boy Shumer (D New York) always spouts off about why folks shouldn't be allowed to own a handgun. [quote]

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> +10

I have to jump in on this. I carry a concealed Glock for the two legged creatures I might come accross when hunting. And I too have met a few creepy creatures out there.
On a lighter note, a female deer hunter I know here in California layed her rifle against a tree before answering the call of nature, when a four point buck caught her with her pants down. She dropped it with a lung shot with the four inch 357 she had holstered in those pants . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I say hunting is all for fun. If it makes you happy to have a handgun with you, by all means Do it. If the weight wears you out to the point you wish you hadn't brought it along, well you will know better next season!

My two cents are not worth throwing more wood on the fire but my impression and a loooong time in the Idaho woods when I see a guy packing a side arm out elk hunting is....'This is a bit much'. Even hunting dangerous game I wouldn't carry a pistol. Just get in the way all the time. If I can't get 'em with a rifle how am I going to do it with a pistol ???? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Mac
If I were hunting with a 7-08, I"d carry a pistol. too.










Just kidding.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dutch, forget about the flamers and carry it. Most of them have probably never been on an Elk hunt anyway. Ranch13 sure got it right.

OWB Jordan holster, strong side, butt to the rear. I think the Jordan is still made by Don Hume of Miami, OK. I also think they're pretty reasonably priced too. El Paso Saddlery makes some fine equipment-but for a fine price.

Good luck on your hunt.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Worse, I got the 7-08 as my big gun, 'cause I got spooked once, shooting a big muley with my Bob! (Only spooked, I found him piled up in the sage; but I wanted more punch)

I'd just wrap it up and carry in saddle bags then use what ever you normally use for hunting no need to buy extra holtser. I normally take a pistol when I'm riding the back country but keep it in saddle bags. Honestly I've never carried a pistol big game hunting in over 40 yrs now. Main reason where can you carry a pistol that it doesn't hit against the rifle or get in the way of a pack if you put your knife or ammo on a belt how much more can you carry. WE have regs covering taking of big game here in Co with a pistol so if carrying one to finish off an elk better make sure it's legal cal and ammo. I know some guys in our gun club that hunt big game with handguns but don't carry a rifle. Just my .02

The thing that strikes me as funny about this whole thing is how it is supposedly a bad idea for 2 reasons a) cause it makes you look like a greenhorn and b0 cause it weighs to much. All I say is A) it may make you look like a greenhorn, But howmany pink, purple,blue or lacy rifles are there on this board <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
and B) Most of the elk hunters I know who use horses to pack in cary way more crap than a handgun, If you were going ultralight thats one thing but if you have a rectangular bag and a wall tent how much difference is 3 lbs going to make?

Note I have "festively colored" mcswirleys and backpack into the salmon wilderness elk hunting so this is a bit tonge in cheek

Dutch, I've hunted Montana and Wyoming for years without horses. My method is to leave my .44 in camp or in the truck until I get an elk on the ground then I swap my rifle for my revolver and carry it while packing the meat out. Take your pistol and have fun on your hunt.

Sorry, didn't mean to piss so many folks off with the greenhorn comment.

Really doesn't have to indicate greenhorn, could indicate "too macho for good sense." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As stated, I did it once (when I fit BOTH the macho wannabe AND greenhorn categories). Do it and have fun. Who cares. If you do the hard core hunt, I'd still bet a LOT of money that only pride will have you packing it a second trip. If you go the cushy route <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, it might be fun <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

I don't want an extra 4 lbs in my pack. period. Let alone on my hip. But, that's just me...

Muley, aka the greenhorn that knows a greenhorn.

Dutch, the way I look at it, it wouldn't make one damned bit of difference to me if some western "old salt" thought of me as a "greenhorn." Who cares? Odds are, you'll never see him again, anyway. You're coming out to the Rocky Mountains to have fun and a great hunting experience.

You want to pack your handgun? Do so. As I said before, if you don't want to carry it while elk hunting, just leave it with the cook in the cook tent. You can always go back and get it if you want to carry while packing meat.

I NEVER go to elk/deer camp, whether on an outfitted hunt, or hunting with my own tent/camp equipment, that I don't have either my S&W 57 .41 Mag., or my Ruger B.H. .45 Colt.

But, as I'm carrying a .338 Mag., I do NOT carry that extra weight while hunting. When I kill an elk, then I pick up the handgun at camp, and leave the rifle. I favor a good shoulder holster for carry as it is more comfortable to me than a hip rig. Whatever is comfortable to you will work, but make sure it has a good retention strap in case your horse gets hinky.

As you said you were out of shape, I STRONGLY SUGGEST you immediately go on a decent weight loss program and do some fast walking, and excercises, especially the muscle stretching excercises.

You will have a much more enjoyable hunt, and perhaps more successful hunt, if you are in decent shape. The Rocky Mountains can be hard on a hunter, believe me!

IF you have a chance in your area, a couple of months before coming out West, go to a riding stable and rent a horse and ride as much as you can. If you do not know how to ride, hire a riding instructor to give you two or three lessons. It ain't all that hard... but you'll be glad you've taken some riding lessons when you get out here.

JMHO.

Good luck.

L.W.

I prefer the M-203 (an M-16 with the 40mm grenade launcher under the rifle tube).

This is my "Just In Case" weapon. I carry it slung in addition to my elk rifle.

My main elk rifle is usually a 50 BMG loaded with a 750 grain Partition at 3000 FPS from a 30" barrel.

A guy has gotta be careful out there. . . . . . . . . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BMT

Maybe I'm the only that's ever had a wreck or blow-up with a bunch of horses, but that's why I would not carry a pistol in a saddle bag. It apparently works for some, but if you're going to carry a pistol, it seems to me the big reason is to have it with you regardless of what some 4 legged hay burner wants to do.(Waiting for a flame for that choice of language,)

Pistols have there place whether on horses or what-ever.Mine never goes with me when I have my rifle but they do have there place.


The Greenhorn..

Jayco <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have some of the biggest wreaks with horses but luckly they normally happen in the roping pen. I've carried a pistol for awhile then had a shoulder holster build and seems like I just cann't find a comfortable place to carry one when I'm in the mtns. If I was to riding a young horse in the mtns I wouldn't take a pistol along never know what going to happen with them or an older horse that hasn't been to the mtn too much.
Guy can dream up all kind of situation to fit any conditions. I live pretty close to 8000' don't get much riding time in winter they get put on the hot walker but about this time of year I'll be riding one just about everyday keeping legged up.

If you are going to take anything, take a super-lightweight .22 RF to pop snowshoe hares and spruce grouse.

Dutch, take a look at Logcutter's picture. That is Idaho! And THAT is the easy part! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

That's why I suggested you start getting in decent physical condition.

FWIW.

L.W.

When I was young I always carried a handgun in addition to my rifle when hunting. I tried to justify it like many here have, but really I did it because I liked carrying the handgun in the woods for a few days of the year. I gave up carrying them when I got tired of the weight and extra hassel. Also, the farther I had to walk, the less likely I was to carry it. I never needed a handgun in all those years. I carried a handgun as a primary arm many times in the woods when I was doing research in the boonies. But that's different. Bottom line, IMO, is, carry one if you want to. No need to justify it. You may get to use it. You probably won't need it. Try different holster styles. The more expensive ones really are better.

Carry what you wish. I carry a first aid kit too, its extra weight. May never use it. I carry several items that mount up weight for "just in case." But I can't seem to help myself with this kind of preparedness. Everybody has their "thing." Some carry a 9lb rifle and big caliber. Many laugh at that. That's ok too. We can pick the fly s**t out of the pepper on most everything we do. What's important is to be comfortable, have fun, and figure it out as you go. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />PS: Mallice clip holster to (Kifaru) pack waistbelt handles extra weight like its not there.

Now, I am a pretty new hunter, and I know I carry a few extra things on me. LIke Roost, I carry a first aid kit. I also carry some lightweight survival items, and a couple extra knives.

I also always carry a sidearm.

Why?

Well, first, I always carry a sidearm when I am going to the grocery store. Just part of habit for me now.

Second reason? Two words. Chai Vang.

All those hunters, and they only had one firearm with them, and most of them were left defenseless and were killed at very close range.

Sure, a .357 S/A revolver aint the best pick for a SD pistol, but it sure as hell beats throwing rocks. This way I know I always have atleast some means to defend myself.

Just my perspective.

Now, I am a pretty new hunter, and I know I carry a few extra things on me. LIke Roost, I carry a first aid kit. I also carry some lightweight survival items, and a couple extra knives.

I also always carry a sidearm.

Why?

Well, first, I always carry a sidearm when I am going to the grocery store. Just part of habit for me now.

Second reason? Two words. Chai Vang.

All those hunters, and they only had one firearm with them, and most of them were left defenseless and were killed at very close range.

Sure, a .357 S/A revolver aint the best pick for a SD pistol, but it sure as hell beats throwing rocks. This way I know I always have atleast some means to defend myself.

Just my perspective.

I agree with the post above.
I carry one everywhere now, so it's really not that much different for me to carry hunting.
I probably will never need it, but if I do, chances are I will have never needed anything as much.
Also, I almost always carry a full size 1911 CCW, which is, imo, a decent woods gun. Far from ideal, but better than nothing.

I'm a little late to this one, but personally find it hilarious that some would want to label someone a "greenhorn" for carrying a sidearm. If that's what makes you feel superior, well then, have at it. I for one know more than a few experienced western hunters and outdoorsman who hike some very rugged country who never leave camp without a sidearm. Some don't, some do. Personally there are more good arguments for, than against.

I carry as much for the 2 legged animals as I do the 4 legged ones, and subscribe to the "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" theory. We're talking a few pounds here. When the day comes that a few pounds will keep me from climbing my mountains and canyons, I probably shouldn't be out there anyway.

You never know who or what will be wandering into your camp or hunting area. Chances are great that just when you need it most, that rifle will be on a bunk, in the gun rack, or leaning against a tree well out of reach. A handgun is never out of reach if worn.

A sure sign of a uhm, ahem, "greenhorn" is someone that would let the opinion of a bunch of guys who's main reason for not carrying one is the fear that it would make them "look like a greenhorn" influence what he feels comfortable going into the outdoors with. If you want to carry it, and 3 or 4 pounds on your hip doesn't scare you, carry it. I've carried too many 72 lb rucksacks along with a rifle and sidearm to let a few ounces worry me.

That looks like the northern part of Idaho. This is what the southern part looks like.

Dick

That there's might purty. The only thing it lacks is a 4" S&W 629!

There was one there. Last fall we were deer hunting on the ridge to the right, behind the foreground tree. Some guy in the bottom started practicing with a handgun of some kind. Over 30 min, he must have shot 50 rounds or more. It pretty well cleared the area. All we saw after that was tracks heading over the ridge.

Dick

When I was a greenhorn elk hunter, back in 1982, I carried a S&W .357 Mag in a strong-side holster. My then new Ruger 7mm Mag banged against it constantly, acquiring more than one �character mark� in the process. In addition to being a general nuisance, I didn�t care for the extra weight and decided if a finishing round was necessary the rifle would work just fine. The .357 never went hunting again and was eventually sold.

The next handgun to accompany me was a Browning Buckmark. Carried it once and got a grouse, but after that it stayed in the truck. Again, too much nuisance factor.

These days I have a Ruger .44 Mag Super Redhawk with a 2x Leupold scope. The holster is a �Banditos� from Pistol Packaging Inc. (www.pistolpackaging.com ) The Banditos holster allows the Ruger to ride under my left arm and the weight pretty much disappears. I still don�t carry it when I have a rifle, though.

Here in Colorado we don�t have big bears to contend with, and no moose where I hunt. Blacks, mountain lions and two-legged varmints are the big dangers. In 24 years of elk hunting, I have yet to see a black bear or lion and the only two-legged varmint, who had me in his rifle scope for a seemingly interminable amount of time, was out of pistol range. My wife was on the jury pool (not selected, though) for a murder trial involving a pack of two-legged varmints that turned on one of their own. Seems they were making their �living� robbing camps. There have been other situations in Colorado with two-legged varmints that involved camps and resulted in innocent victims getting shot or killed.

There are lots of good reasons for carrying both a handgun and a rifle, depending on individual circumstances. In my case, the handguns tend to get worn around camp if at all, and the .45ACP is the one most likely to be on my hip. The two-legged varmints are my biggest concern.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dutch, If you haven't done so already, read up on the firearms laws for Idaho.

While pretty free, carrying concealed handgun( if you should go to town etc) requires a CCW.Carrying while hunting doesn't.IF you stow the revolver while out hunting or in town, the risk of it going missing goes up..

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=ID

You also will need to deal with TSA for transporting the revolver and ammo in your luggage( lockable box with proper declaration) and FWIW, ALOT of personal items disappear when in custody of the airlines.

Horseback, I'd carry in a simple-secure belt holster for crossdraw rather than strongside.

Tho for myself, a sidearm while elk hunting is not something I'd burden myself with, ( I'm a walk-in still-hunter rather than a pack-in -by horse hunter) take it along if you wish and don't worry about what anyone else thinks..:).

A small caliber rimfire .22 revolver that could be used for small game or birds for the pot would be more practical out here..:)
Hope you have a memorable hunt.You'll enjoy the country and elk hunting is some of the best there is..jim

Very true...but in Idaho don't use it for a kill shot to the head. Rimfires are illegal and a kill shot is still considered hunting.

Dick

I have never heard so much whining about carrying a gun from what are supposed to be gun friendly people.

Carry a handgun if you want or don't it is up to you. I have been carrying a sidearm for over 20 years while hunting and never felt the burden of it. And, I carry it in a western holster strong side from Kirkpatricks. Sometimes I carry a 4" S&W 44 in an El Paso Threepersons. I experimented with a 6" Colt Anaconda in an El Paso 1942 rig and an additional side arm on my hip while snow shoeing with a 40 pound back just to see if the additional weight would be a problem. It never was and that holster was very comfortable to me.

The reasons I prefer to carry have been mentioned in this forum several times; walking out with game when a "Rifle" would be too cumbersome, 2 legged and 4 legged critters, etc. A fellow I had hunted with was killed by a grizzly a few years ago while gutting an elk. His rifle was not in reach when attacked and maybe a pistol wouldn't have helped, but it is nice to have the option. I have an uncle who was stalked by a mtn lion, I have tracked a mtn lion that was following another hunter, and I have had the 2 legged drunk kind come into camp at night boasting about shooting the previous occupants (us) if we gave them any trouble. So I don't go into the field without a sidearm. It is on my person instead of leaning against a tree. And, yes, I have used mine to finish off animals. Much less messy.

Dutch686,
Are you the only hunter? If you fill your tag, I believe you cant be walking around with your rifle. And you definitely dont want to be out there empty handed. I persoanlly dont like to carry my sidearm while Im hunting, but once my tag is filled, I help the others fill theirs. Definitely take it, and use it if you want. But make the decision once you get there.

___________________________________________________

In Idaho, a non-resident with the proper non-resident hunting license, may carry a rifle even if he's filled his n.r. elk/deer tag. The hunting license is for whatever tags the n.r. bought, PLUS he can shoot certain varmits, etc., such as coyotes, etc., after filling his tag(s).

So, yes, Dutch can still carry his rifle around even after he has killed that "big six." All he needs for that is to have that n.r. hunting license. (Just don't shoot any big game animals for which you do not have tags!)

L.W.

Thanks for that very important clarification.
(Id still take the darn sidearm.) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Folks, thank you for all of the responses. I have learned a lot, and I think we have all had some fun. I'm taking my 44,and I'll just make my decision when I get there.

2 points:
In Idaho, a centerfire handgun is a legal weapon for all big game. If it's illegal to carry a rifle, then it's also illegal to carry a pistol.

Also, in Idaho PARTY HUNTING IS ILLEGAL. You can do what you want in your own state, but if I see you helping someone else fill a tag here, I won't hesitate to turn you in.

Dick

I wanted to thank everyone for their comments..good or bad. I've learned a lot, and have had a good time reading all of the posts. I think I will take the 44 mag, and decide what to do with it when I get there. I'm the only hunter in my party. I'm comfortable that the outfitter is familiar with all of the pertinent game laws so no need to get big and bad about turning me in.

dutch;

Good luck, and good hunting.

Dick,
Hold your horses for a minute.
I will always help others fill their tag if I have finished my hunt. That does not mean I will shoot an animal for them. That means I will accompany them, help carry their daypack, help glass for them, and help carry out their animal.
And while Im doing that, Id prefer to carry a sidearm and not a rifle.
Ive never hunted in Idaho, but I dont believe helping a fellow hunter in that way is illegal.

maestro, I suggest that you dream up a new phrase for assisting a friend in his hunt.
I believe that "help others fill their tag" is commonly understood to mean "party-hunting".

Where's the problem with the wording? I understood exactly what he meant. I don't think it's legal ANYWHERE (or ethical) to fill someone elses tag, so that was obviously not what he meant.

I doubt it is illegal anywhere to assist in glassing, packing, scouting, etc. If that were the case, guiding would be illegal, no?

Where's the problem with the wording? I understood exactly what he meant. I don't think it's legal ANYWHERE (or ethical) to fill someone elses tag, so that was obviously not what he meant.

Rock Chuck and I both understood it the way I said, so there is a group of two, so far.

Wisconsin, for one, does allow party hunting for deer.

Idaho's regs phrase it this way-
"It is Unlawful
� To party hunt, or help fill another hunter�s tag. "

And just because it is illegal, or unethical to you, does not mean that other folks don't do it, and people say a lot of odd things on these anonymous boards.

Then why stop at just two when three or four offer even more options? Maybe I should carry a .22 for the grouse, a shotgun for smarter birds, a .44 Mag Revolver for defensive work and the rifle for the main business?

No. Call it �whining� if you want. When I�m carrying concealed I don�t pack a rifle and generally don�t have one in the vehicle, either - no real need and the rifles stay locked up in the safe. When I�m packing a rifle I choose not to carry a handgun as again I�ve decided there is no real need in my case, although I often have one in the vehicle..

I�m not finding fault with those that decide otherwise, just stating my experience.

Macrabbit,
I suggest you learn how to read.
If Idaho uses the phrase, "Help someone else fill their tag", as meaning that I will shoot the animal for them, it is extremely ambiguous.
If I carry a daypack for my dad, help him glass, and he shoots an animal, I will have considered that I helped him kill an animal, shoot a deer, fill his tag, whatever.
Notice that neither Colorado nor Montana use that terminology.
CO: "Party Hunt (Kill someone else's game or let someone else kill your game) is illegal.
Montana: "...Using one's license to tag an animal killed by another person is illegal."
For me not knowing that Idaho will allow you to carry a rifle after your tag is filled was my ignorance of the differences between Idaho and the other states I normally hunt.
To tell me that I can do whatever I want in my own state, but if I help another fill his tag, that it is illegal and you will report me. Well that was a bit uncalled for, and I took personal offense.
Good hunting to all.
maestro

"Helping others to fill their tags" is, in hunting vernacular, shooting game for someone else. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that's what you said. I don't know where you live, but maybe party hunting is legal there. I've been told that some Canadian provinces allow it, for example.

If you didn't mean it that way then I apologize, but I suggest you don't phrase it that way in the future because most hunters will take it the way I did.

Dick

I agree. Which is why your use of the phrase, which many people understand to mean 'party-hunt', is also ambiguous, and you'll find yourself having to make clarifications. So I suggested that you come up with a less ambiguous phrase that will require no explanation.

Back during the presidential race, my cousin was marching the streets campaigning for Al Gore. He was chanting, "I love Gore! I love Gore". I caught up to him as he was turning the corner into a block where a dozen gang members had just been gunned down. The survivors were in rather an ugly mood. My cousin was grateful for my suggestion that he not go past them chanting, "I love gore! I love gore!". He might have been misunderstood. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm just trying to help.



Please leave me out of "To tell me that I can do whatever I want in my own state, but if I help another fill his tag, that it is illegal and you will report me. Well that was a bit uncalled for, and I took personal offense." That wasn't my post.

I help others fill their tags all the time too. Most of the time I don't draw a tag but I go along to help scout, spot, retrieve, clean, pack out, etc...

It's all in your meaning and if you haven't figured it out yet, assuming the meaning on the net is foolish.

You have no tone of voice, often typed words are only a bit of the persons thought train and you cannot see their face and interact with them.

Jeff

Im more relaxed this morning, just had my cage rattled a bit. In CA party hunting is not allowed. I understand where the miscommunication happened and still disagree as to the use of that "coined" phrase. It does not mean the same thing in all states and thus is not accepted in the same way. I have definitely learned something.
Again, good hunting to all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Not to the merits of the question, which have been pretty well covered on all sides, but I'll never forget how bizarre two hunters looked that I bumped into at about 9,000 feet in Idaho, way up the Fourth of July Creek drainage off the Salmon. We horse packed in and hunted up on foot from the tent. Hard hunting, even carrying a light pack and an 8 pound rifle. One noonday, as I was puffing up a trail, I ran into a couple of nimrods, both big guys well over six feet, probably a hundred pounds overweight between them, carrying huge rifles with big scopes and freaking bipods, daypacks I could have slept in, and the crowning touch....each of them was packing a Super Blackhawk in a tied down Buscadero Hollywood rig, like Matt Dillon. It was really tough to keep a straight face. They must have been in incredible shape to even move around with such a load, despite their couch potato appearance.

It's not so much about "a firearm for every occassion" as it is about having one always at hand (on the hip), or at the minimum a back up. I equate it to this: How many LEO's carry back ups? Quite a few. How many ever use them? Damn few use their primary arms, let alone their back ups. The chances of ever needing a backup are so small, but it doesn't (and shouldn't) stop people from carrying them.

I know the original question was posted regarding elk hunting, but I also do a lot of predator hunting with .22 centerfire and rimfire rifles. I especially like a large caliber sidearm for back up during these times for dealing with anything larger than a coyote that needs dealing with. Open range bulls, humans, or to have something in case of the possiblility a lion or bear nails me while calling and I get knocked away from my rifle or can't bring it to bear.

Plenty of good reasons to have one. Only one reason to not have one, and that is weight savings. Again, 3 or 4 pounds doesn't worry me.



And I can't imagine anyone would fault you for that. What gets people "up in arms" so to speak are those that want to use the fact that someone chooses to carry a sidearm or not as some bar or measurement of that persons outdoor experience and worthiness, and that's just friggn silly.

And lastly, does anyone other than a "greenhorn" acutally use the term "greenhorn"? That's just not a phrase I've heard in my hunting circles (Ha! Mebbe we're all greenhorns!). "Flatlander" seemed to be a fairly common term, but "greenhorn"? Oustide of this board, I haven't heard that term since "Grizzly Adams" went off the air back in the 70's. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

A simple misunderstanding of semantics - perhaps instead of launching into someone on what one assumes they mean, a question to clear up the misunderstandng might be preferable - "Did you really mean to say that you....?"

DaveR �

My post was, as you realize, rather facetious. Over the years I�ve considered the chances of me personally running into a bear or lion. I�ve been living in Colorado since 1980 and have yet to see a bear at any time, let a lone while hunting. The only lion I�ve seen was crossing the road a mile from my house and 5 hours away from where I generally hunt. Go figure!

Also, I generally am in the company of a hunting buddy who also has a rifle. If I�m going to pack an extra 3-4 pounds, its going to be more water!

Yes sir, I realized that, hope you didn't take my response the wrong way.

I also realize the chances are small of ever needing it, but when it comes to self defense, I don't play the odds and err on the side of caution. I guess I've just been pushed to my physical limits so many damn times in the Army that carrying a sidearm anywhere, up or down any moutain or canyon no matter how rugged, does not feel like a big imposition to me. That day may yet come, but to date it hasn't. If that day does come, I imagine at the minimum a Smith "air lite" something in 357 or better is in my future. I just can't imagine being out in the outdoors and not carrying.

DaveR �

First, THANK YOU for your service. My brothers and I all served and I�m now the proud father of a daughter who is serving as a Russian linguist in the Air Force. Looks like she might get transferred to Elmendorf in Alaska before the year is out, might have to go up there and go hunting and fish� er, visiting.

No, I don�t think I took your post the wrong way. You were merely stating your reasons FOR carrying. Sounds like we both agree it�s a personal decision and to heck with what others think. Over the last couple decades handgun carry has been rare in the hunting camps I�ve been part of, but not unheard of, and I never gave it a second thought either way. And like you, I can�t remember ever hearing the term �greenhorn� in hunting camp but �flatlander� has been common.

Like you, I like to have a firearm handy when outdoors. Or at least when outdoors in the mountains. Over the years � and when not hunting with a rifle I hand - I�ve used everything from a Browning .22 pistol to a Ruger .357 Magnum revolver to a Kimber .45ACP to Browning B92 carbine in .44 Magnum. Never needed whatever I was carrying and pray I never do � but I�ll keep something handy just in case.

With one exception I've never seen much of a need for a sidearm when carrying my rifle in the woods. That one exception is a .22 revolver or pistol for shooting grouse.

Since I already carry too much stuff in my daypack for those "just in case" occasions, I simply don't need the added weight of a .44 Mag. But grouse are tasty critters and therefore I feel that the opportunity to get one is worth packing a .22.

Coyote Hunter

If you want to carry a specific firearm for each individual animal you may encounter in the field go for it. I will support your right to do such. However, I think you missed the point of what I was saying. The whining comment was for those who make fun of someone for wanting to carry a sidearm, if you are one of those then it was meant for you. If you choose not to carry one for your own reasons that is fine also.

When you are carrying several different guns for different purposes with your 60 Ib pack and can't hunt because you are too encumbered than I would say "Leave some of those guns at home". Should it not bother you then carry all you like for it doesn't bother me in the least.

Another note. Idaho must really believe the 2nd Amendment only applies to hunting since a person must have a license to hunt in order to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

Not true at all. We need a license to hunt. We can target shoot without one. We can pack while bowhunting without one (but the license is needed to hunt with the bow so that's a moot issue), we can carry concealed without a permit unless inside a vehicle or inside a city limits. You don't need a license to pack while backpacking but if it's during a hunting season, you might have a tough time proving you aren't hunting.

Idaho is really pretty liberal in exercising 2d Amend rights.

Dick

Thanks Rock Chuck for clearing that up. I have visited a friend there before and was informed I had to have a license if I wanted to have a gun in the field and I am sure I read it somewhere, where I can't say anymore. In MT we only need a license to hunt the game animals and so can hunt rabbits, gopher, coyote, etc. all year long without a license. (I don't know what the lic. requirements are for those in ID.) We can carry a gun in all those occasions. I have asked our Fish & Game here about it and was told, in so many words, it was ok during hunting season if you don't have a tag. Remember the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to hunting. Besides whether we believe it or not we still are innocent until proven guilty.

Pretty much the way we do it. Leave the revolver in camp and swap it out when going back for the meat. I carry my old Ruger Security six. I have been known to carry a wrist rocket for grouse and bunnies. If folks want to carry the extra weight, who really cares, hell, they're the ones that have to pack it.

Personal choice..Your not an idiot if you choose to carry one and your not an idiot if you choose not too.What's the big deal?I hunt the way I do and you hunt the way you do and I or you are not going to change anyone's mind....Ya can't shove your way down anyones throat...

I know alot of people who do pack both and alot that don't and personally,I don't give a poop what someone else does.There both right!!!!!!

Jayco

One Shot, One Kill

But if you need two shots. You already have a .300 Win Mag. When doing horseback hunts, I always carry a pistol in a shoulder holster, mostly since the rifle is in the scabbard, and if I fall or or thrown, I still have a gun. I haven't been thrown yet, but have come across fresh griz sign and griz kills that have scared the crap out of me and my horse. It made me feel a little better carrying a pistol just in case a SNAFU happened.

I carried a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 colt cross draw on my fannypack belt. I never needed it but I had an uneasy feeling when I walked up on a spine and ribcage from a deer all by itself on a ridge. It was fresh and there were no other signs of the rest of the carcass. There were some wide tracks around it but couldn't make out any details as to what made them. The trip to Colorado was an excuse to buy a new gun, and it was reassuring to have, going up the mountain in the dark. I was also carrying a 30-06 slung over my shoulder. I feel that my response time would be a lot quicker with the pistol than the revolver in case I ever needed it. I weigh 300 lbs but had no problems toting the weight.

I laugh at anyone that can't see the merit in carrying an extra survival tool when out in the wilderness. Sure, you hopefully will never need it. I didnt for the first 16 years of my life. Call it a run of bad luck from then on though. I have had 4 instances since the age of 16 and change that I was lucky to get out of alive. So, it could be said that since I am alive-I in fact didnt need it. But thats just not true. I came within such a slight margin of not needing it that I figure I'm pushing my luck to expect to not one day need it-then not have it. I have never carried a sidearm and I'm forty seven now. But I'm going to this year as I can see the reality that should you ever need it and not have it, the circumstance may result in your injury at least, and death at worse. I plan on picking up a 44 pretty soon and will carry it when I go horse packing into the wilderness this season. I can't believe weight would be an issue. Your dang flashlight weighs as much and is less important. But I say do whatever floats your boat. Either way, its your life and nobody should be chastised whatever they decide. But just because you havent needed it yet, doesnt mean you won't someday. I found that out the hard way.

MOWZER - "...I found that out the hard way."
___________________________________________________

How about a story or two, Mowzer. True incidents are always interesting to those of us who bust the boonies.

Thanks. L.W.

Given my habit of traversing steep and high terrain. Weight is an issue. If I took a handgun and it's attending ammo, then I would leave the rifle at home. Mostly, though I favor rifles. I never even bring a sling along when hunting, so the speed of going into action only hinges on disengaging a safety. I missed a couple of opportunities due to over the shoulder carries as a kid (1960's), and swore it would never happen again. 1Minute

BTDT.
Ya gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to should'em. (that rhymes) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I would guess that this 44-Mag at "26.5" ounces is going to make or break your Elk Hunt...I doubt it and if it did,You don't belong in the hills...26.5 ounces.Granted there not all that light...But some are lighter than others..All in choices and I don't knock those that pack as I do both myself sometimes.


Jayco

1Minute,
First thing a hunter needs to understand that the PROPERLY selected and adjusted rifle sling is FIRST for better stability for the shot in the field and NOT primarily a 'carry strap'....

Especially when the hunter is in good game country during prime time and at any moment he may have a shot opportunity presented...
Show me a big game hunter who can bring up his rifle from the ready and hit, and I will better his accuracy without compromising speed using a proper shooting sling..jim

Jim: A fellow Oregonian! We're in great country. I would agree that a sling is a good tool for shooting some arms in some conditions. If I was doing the military thing, biathalons, or small bore 3-position competition, I would probably get all trussed up too. I do most of my hunting in open space or big canyon country now days. That being the case I have not taken an offhand shot in about 20 years. Spot and stalk only. If they are up and running, they are perfectly safe. In some instances, I've had the rifle sitting there bedded with the animal in the scope for 2 or 3 hours waiting for it to stand up. I sat with the wife 4 years ago from 11:00 AM until 4:30 PM waiting for a bull to get out of bed. Again I don't use the sling, but I've assembled some rock solid rests on the edges of rims or in some snow banks over the years. As a kid, I was back in the eastern forests where a quick response was paramount. I had lapsed into some shoulder sling carries that cost me. I stopped that practice, and it's just carried over into old age. I would suppose the second reason I seldom sling up is that I'm always out with an external pack frame on my back (rope, lunch, water, spotting scope, and tripod). I'm too lazy to go 3 or 4 miles back to camp, and I get the first load of meat in straight off. Any sling rigging that puts a rifle over my shoulder or back is going to generate wear and tear on the rifle or my spotting scope. I don't want it over my chest either as that's where the binoculars ride. If I could do the TV thing with a guide that packed all that stuff, then I'd probably stroll along with a sling and cup of coffee. Thirdly, but not often, I've done a little long-tom shooting for elk and pronghorn. My rifles are well tuned for working from rests, but I insist on wooden stocks, and sadly, they are not rigid enough to take the additional torques, tugs, and twists that are induced by tightly bracing up in a sling without altering point of impact. Also, when I do get braced up in a sling with my finer rifles and scopes, I just can't get my heartbeat out of the picture. It probably doesn't help that the adrenalin tends to kick in. With practice, I am told, one can eventually work between heart beats, but I'm not that much of a die-hard. With the rifle bedded on the backpack, log, or rock, heartbeat is not an issue. Over the years, I can't say I've seen many bench resters trussed up in sling either.

I believe the original question in this post had to do with elk hunting. Had the author indicated his true reason for packing extra iron, we might have all saved a bit of time. Take care, and remember that application time is nearing. Good luck in the draws. 1Minute

It was clear but there have been a lot of tangents to this thread.

Well there are a lot of opinions out there on a forum this big. Some are even worth reading. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

After having a friend almost eaten by a mountain lion during archery season and a couple close calls myself. I have started carrying a handgun while hunting, granted it's only a 41mag ti revolver but it's light, and makes me feel better knowing I have it.
Though I have noticed that when I'm hunting the really rough country it seems to stay at home/the truck with all my other extra gear.

If I had something lighter than my .454,I would carry it all the time with or without rifles.When I sell my Yamaha YZ-250 Dirt Bike,I am going to get that light weight 44-Mag from Smith and Wesson.To many odd things happening with animals and humans anymore and with the Goverment shipping "More" problem Grizzlies to my back yard,can't be to carefull let alone the pet eating Wolves!!!!
Sorry!!!

Jayco

I would think a 41 mag would be about perfect if the giant Alaskan bears were'nt a consideration and then still a good choice if a guy shoots it well and will carry it.

Taurus makes a light 44 mag that is quite a bit less expensive than the Smith FWIW.