Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Sidearm for Elk Hunting

Macrabbit,
I suggest you learn how to read.
If Idaho uses the phrase, "Help someone else fill their tag", as meaning that I will shoot the animal for them, it is extremely ambiguous.
If I carry a daypack for my dad, help him glass, and he shoots an animal, I will have considered that I helped him kill an animal, shoot a deer, fill his tag, whatever.
Notice that neither Colorado nor Montana use that terminology.
CO: "Party Hunt (Kill someone else's game or let someone else kill your game) is illegal.
Montana: "...Using one's license to tag an animal killed by another person is illegal."
For me not knowing that Idaho will allow you to carry a rifle after your tag is filled was my ignorance of the differences between Idaho and the other states I normally hunt.
To tell me that I can do whatever I want in my own state, but if I help another fill his tag, that it is illegal and you will report me. Well that was a bit uncalled for, and I took personal offense.
Good hunting to all.
maestro

"Helping others to fill their tags" is, in hunting vernacular, shooting game for someone else. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that's what you said. I don't know where you live, but maybe party hunting is legal there. I've been told that some Canadian provinces allow it, for example.

If you didn't mean it that way then I apologize, but I suggest you don't phrase it that way in the future because most hunters will take it the way I did.

Dick

I agree. Which is why your use of the phrase, which many people understand to mean 'party-hunt', is also ambiguous, and you'll find yourself having to make clarifications. So I suggested that you come up with a less ambiguous phrase that will require no explanation.

Back during the presidential race, my cousin was marching the streets campaigning for Al Gore. He was chanting, "I love Gore! I love Gore". I caught up to him as he was turning the corner into a block where a dozen gang members had just been gunned down. The survivors were in rather an ugly mood. My cousin was grateful for my suggestion that he not go past them chanting, "I love gore! I love gore!". He might have been misunderstood. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm just trying to help.



Please leave me out of "To tell me that I can do whatever I want in my own state, but if I help another fill his tag, that it is illegal and you will report me. Well that was a bit uncalled for, and I took personal offense." That wasn't my post.

I help others fill their tags all the time too. Most of the time I don't draw a tag but I go along to help scout, spot, retrieve, clean, pack out, etc...

It's all in your meaning and if you haven't figured it out yet, assuming the meaning on the net is foolish.

You have no tone of voice, often typed words are only a bit of the persons thought train and you cannot see their face and interact with them.

Jeff

Im more relaxed this morning, just had my cage rattled a bit. In CA party hunting is not allowed. I understand where the miscommunication happened and still disagree as to the use of that "coined" phrase. It does not mean the same thing in all states and thus is not accepted in the same way. I have definitely learned something.
Again, good hunting to all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Not to the merits of the question, which have been pretty well covered on all sides, but I'll never forget how bizarre two hunters looked that I bumped into at about 9,000 feet in Idaho, way up the Fourth of July Creek drainage off the Salmon. We horse packed in and hunted up on foot from the tent. Hard hunting, even carrying a light pack and an 8 pound rifle. One noonday, as I was puffing up a trail, I ran into a couple of nimrods, both big guys well over six feet, probably a hundred pounds overweight between them, carrying huge rifles with big scopes and freaking bipods, daypacks I could have slept in, and the crowning touch....each of them was packing a Super Blackhawk in a tied down Buscadero Hollywood rig, like Matt Dillon. It was really tough to keep a straight face. They must have been in incredible shape to even move around with such a load, despite their couch potato appearance.

It's not so much about "a firearm for every occassion" as it is about having one always at hand (on the hip), or at the minimum a back up. I equate it to this: How many LEO's carry back ups? Quite a few. How many ever use them? Damn few use their primary arms, let alone their back ups. The chances of ever needing a backup are so small, but it doesn't (and shouldn't) stop people from carrying them.

I know the original question was posted regarding elk hunting, but I also do a lot of predator hunting with .22 centerfire and rimfire rifles. I especially like a large caliber sidearm for back up during these times for dealing with anything larger than a coyote that needs dealing with. Open range bulls, humans, or to have something in case of the possiblility a lion or bear nails me while calling and I get knocked away from my rifle or can't bring it to bear.

Plenty of good reasons to have one. Only one reason to not have one, and that is weight savings. Again, 3 or 4 pounds doesn't worry me.



And I can't imagine anyone would fault you for that. What gets people "up in arms" so to speak are those that want to use the fact that someone chooses to carry a sidearm or not as some bar or measurement of that persons outdoor experience and worthiness, and that's just friggn silly.

And lastly, does anyone other than a "greenhorn" acutally use the term "greenhorn"? That's just not a phrase I've heard in my hunting circles (Ha! Mebbe we're all greenhorns!). "Flatlander" seemed to be a fairly common term, but "greenhorn"? Oustide of this board, I haven't heard that term since "Grizzly Adams" went off the air back in the 70's. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

A simple misunderstanding of semantics - perhaps instead of launching into someone on what one assumes they mean, a question to clear up the misunderstandng might be preferable - "Did you really mean to say that you....?"

DaveR �

My post was, as you realize, rather facetious. Over the years I�ve considered the chances of me personally running into a bear or lion. I�ve been living in Colorado since 1980 and have yet to see a bear at any time, let a lone while hunting. The only lion I�ve seen was crossing the road a mile from my house and 5 hours away from where I generally hunt. Go figure!

Also, I generally am in the company of a hunting buddy who also has a rifle. If I�m going to pack an extra 3-4 pounds, its going to be more water!

Yes sir, I realized that, hope you didn't take my response the wrong way.

I also realize the chances are small of ever needing it, but when it comes to self defense, I don't play the odds and err on the side of caution. I guess I've just been pushed to my physical limits so many damn times in the Army that carrying a sidearm anywhere, up or down any moutain or canyon no matter how rugged, does not feel like a big imposition to me. That day may yet come, but to date it hasn't. If that day does come, I imagine at the minimum a Smith "air lite" something in 357 or better is in my future. I just can't imagine being out in the outdoors and not carrying.

DaveR �

First, THANK YOU for your service. My brothers and I all served and I�m now the proud father of a daughter who is serving as a Russian linguist in the Air Force. Looks like she might get transferred to Elmendorf in Alaska before the year is out, might have to go up there and go hunting and fish� er, visiting.

No, I don�t think I took your post the wrong way. You were merely stating your reasons FOR carrying. Sounds like we both agree it�s a personal decision and to heck with what others think. Over the last couple decades handgun carry has been rare in the hunting camps I�ve been part of, but not unheard of, and I never gave it a second thought either way. And like you, I can�t remember ever hearing the term �greenhorn� in hunting camp but �flatlander� has been common.

Like you, I like to have a firearm handy when outdoors. Or at least when outdoors in the mountains. Over the years � and when not hunting with a rifle I hand - I�ve used everything from a Browning .22 pistol to a Ruger .357 Magnum revolver to a Kimber .45ACP to Browning B92 carbine in .44 Magnum. Never needed whatever I was carrying and pray I never do � but I�ll keep something handy just in case.

With one exception I've never seen much of a need for a sidearm when carrying my rifle in the woods. That one exception is a .22 revolver or pistol for shooting grouse.

Since I already carry too much stuff in my daypack for those "just in case" occasions, I simply don't need the added weight of a .44 Mag. But grouse are tasty critters and therefore I feel that the opportunity to get one is worth packing a .22.

Coyote Hunter

If you want to carry a specific firearm for each individual animal you may encounter in the field go for it. I will support your right to do such. However, I think you missed the point of what I was saying. The whining comment was for those who make fun of someone for wanting to carry a sidearm, if you are one of those then it was meant for you. If you choose not to carry one for your own reasons that is fine also.

When you are carrying several different guns for different purposes with your 60 Ib pack and can't hunt because you are too encumbered than I would say "Leave some of those guns at home". Should it not bother you then carry all you like for it doesn't bother me in the least.

Another note. Idaho must really believe the 2nd Amendment only applies to hunting since a person must have a license to hunt in order to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

Not true at all. We need a license to hunt. We can target shoot without one. We can pack while bowhunting without one (but the license is needed to hunt with the bow so that's a moot issue), we can carry concealed without a permit unless inside a vehicle or inside a city limits. You don't need a license to pack while backpacking but if it's during a hunting season, you might have a tough time proving you aren't hunting.

Idaho is really pretty liberal in exercising 2d Amend rights.

Dick

Thanks Rock Chuck for clearing that up. I have visited a friend there before and was informed I had to have a license if I wanted to have a gun in the field and I am sure I read it somewhere, where I can't say anymore. In MT we only need a license to hunt the game animals and so can hunt rabbits, gopher, coyote, etc. all year long without a license. (I don't know what the lic. requirements are for those in ID.) We can carry a gun in all those occasions. I have asked our Fish & Game here about it and was told, in so many words, it was ok during hunting season if you don't have a tag. Remember the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to hunting. Besides whether we believe it or not we still are innocent until proven guilty.

Pretty much the way we do it. Leave the revolver in camp and swap it out when going back for the meat. I carry my old Ruger Security six. I have been known to carry a wrist rocket for grouse and bunnies. If folks want to carry the extra weight, who really cares, hell, they're the ones that have to pack it.

Personal choice..Your not an idiot if you choose to carry one and your not an idiot if you choose not too.What's the big deal?I hunt the way I do and you hunt the way you do and I or you are not going to change anyone's mind....Ya can't shove your way down anyones throat...

I know alot of people who do pack both and alot that don't and personally,I don't give a poop what someone else does.There both right!!!!!!

Jayco

One Shot, One Kill

But if you need two shots. You already have a .300 Win Mag. When doing horseback hunts, I always carry a pistol in a shoulder holster, mostly since the rifle is in the scabbard, and if I fall or or thrown, I still have a gun. I haven't been thrown yet, but have come across fresh griz sign and griz kills that have scared the crap out of me and my horse. It made me feel a little better carrying a pistol just in case a SNAFU happened.

I carried a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 colt cross draw on my fannypack belt. I never needed it but I had an uneasy feeling when I walked up on a spine and ribcage from a deer all by itself on a ridge. It was fresh and there were no other signs of the rest of the carcass. There were some wide tracks around it but couldn't make out any details as to what made them. The trip to Colorado was an excuse to buy a new gun, and it was reassuring to have, going up the mountain in the dark. I was also carrying a 30-06 slung over my shoulder. I feel that my response time would be a lot quicker with the pistol than the revolver in case I ever needed it. I weigh 300 lbs but had no problems toting the weight.

I laugh at anyone that can't see the merit in carrying an extra survival tool when out in the wilderness. Sure, you hopefully will never need it. I didnt for the first 16 years of my life. Call it a run of bad luck from then on though. I have had 4 instances since the age of 16 and change that I was lucky to get out of alive. So, it could be said that since I am alive-I in fact didnt need it. But thats just not true. I came within such a slight margin of not needing it that I figure I'm pushing my luck to expect to not one day need it-then not have it. I have never carried a sidearm and I'm forty seven now. But I'm going to this year as I can see the reality that should you ever need it and not have it, the circumstance may result in your injury at least, and death at worse. I plan on picking up a 44 pretty soon and will carry it when I go horse packing into the wilderness this season. I can't believe weight would be an issue. Your dang flashlight weighs as much and is less important. But I say do whatever floats your boat. Either way, its your life and nobody should be chastised whatever they decide. But just because you havent needed it yet, doesnt mean you won't someday. I found that out the hard way.