The Texas Multigun Championship's dates for 2013 have been announced.

4/19-21/2012 Vietnam theme this year.

Larue dropped out as a sponsor but Surefire stepped in, so it outta be a good time.

What happened to LaRue?? He's usually a very generous sponsor..

I've heard several rumors, but who knows. All the rumors involved drama, so I quit caring.

Drama and La Rue. who'da thunk it. grins.

I wish I had time to try to play that game a bit again. But not on a competitive level, just a keep sharp level. Always thought it was some good for keeping lubed up in case you ever did have to defend yourself.

I'm gearing up for some local 3-gun matches. Just got Sevigny sights on my M&PL, gotta get a funnel and mag pads for it. I bought a pawnshop 1100 cheap, gotta get the barrel cut to 22in and choked, then mod the action and install sights. I need a better scope for my AR (Burris XTR 1-4X)

When it got to the rifle, we alawys ran ours with irons. Not as fast of course but not too bad and good fun.

I think the larger matches have an irons only class. I'm with you on 3-gun as training, combine that with F-class and you've covered most of the bases.

I'd love to be competitive... but 3 gun, IDPA more so than IPSC, and F class would/can teach a lot and keep one tuned.

Thats about the only negative of living rural, often matches are a long drive for us. The offshoot is I have 600 yards plus in my backyard to play with....

I'm a reluctant 3-gunner. I don't care for the format very much between the shotgun and things like leaving a pistol in a bucket as part of the course of fire. I do like the mix of short and long carbine shooting. Will be shooting the pro-am this weekend at Rockcastle.

Hope to do some real rifle shooting the following weekend with my 338 LM out to 2,400y.

The rifle shots at our local matches are about 20% 10 yardish, 10% 300-500 yards and 70% around 80 yards. A pretty good mix to keep you sharp.

I don't want to start a fight, but I am old school and in my opinion...from what I have seen of '3-gun' matches on TV,,,,that game is for people who don't know how to shoot.
I would like to see those guys shoot a 3 gun match with the following: rack grade 1911 in 45 hardball....an off the shelf M1 Garand 30-06 M118 (173gr ball)...and a new in the box Rem 870 12 gauge shooting high brass rounds.
Then I could tell if they knew how to shoot a real firearm.

We use to do just that, field serviceable weapons and equipment, a test of your ability to think as well as shoot. Alas, the evolution of the competition mind set dictated what we have now. Bristling with multi-color mags, shotgun tubes that hold a half box of shells (weenie loads), and every gimmick available hung on a carbine that would probably go inop if you fell on it(or gash you from all the sharp edges). aahh well, I realize that scoring caused some modifications to be necessary, we tried our best for over 20 years.

And I'd like to see you take their gear and make the shots they do. It's easy to say "it's all gear", "it's an arms race" or whatever. Bring your "high brass" loads to a match and ask the top shooters to shoot against you. Or ask to shoot their gear, I'm sure they'd let ya.

I agree. The top-tier guys are running sweet triggers (mostly AR Golds now) and low-mass carriers/buffers. That just shortens recoil impulse and the parts can easily be swapped back for mil spec stuff.

The handguns are definetely massaged, but no one is running IPSC race guns for three gun.

Shotguns would mostly do quite well on a dove shoot.

ok, here we go,,, I have shot for many years at Camp Perry, the first 5 years I shot the NRA Bullseye and was able to get some 'Leg' points...so, that is 50 and 25 yards one hand, 1911 hardball (230gr) factory (issued) ammo. Then the following 15 years I shot NRA High-Power Service Rifle (M14),,,got some 'Leg' points there also... I will shoot against the little boys in their 3-gun game at 10 yards, with hand loads that recoil like a 22LR. I have shot NRA Action Pistol & IPSC, years ago. But it was a game for kids, not real shooting. Speed was more important than accurate shots. Let me see the 3-gun guys on the 50 yard line at Perry with Colt series 70. Or maybe on the 1000 yard line with a M1A and 175gr Federal Gold. I agree with Mr. SOFMatchstaff...the game started with real shooters, now it is a joke...in my opinion.

Slow misses with antiques are why they have separate classes.

My friend,who is helping me get started in 3-gun, loads 115gr 9mm @1150 for everything he does, 3-gun, IDPA etc. His AR DOES recoil like a 10-22 but it does it with PMC factory ammo or 77gr SMK's a 2800fps, he ain't talkin about how it does it. Those pepper poppers won't go down if you tap them. He also was a top-ten finisher at the last Bianchi Cup. I'd say he's a "real" shooter.

I won't argue. I've tried too hard to change the minds before of crusty old guys who've been everywhere and done everything back when it was harder to do.

If 3 gun / IPSC / whatever is so easy then come do it and show the world just how awesome you are. Or just run your mouth about the good old days.

What horse crap. I hear this all the time from old shooters, soldiers, and cops. They all have one thing in common- when/if they come to a match they get their butts handed to them.

3-Gun is the most useful shooting sport for military and law enforcement. While they both offer good specialized practice- NRA Service Rifle and NRA Bullseye has about as much to do with how we utilize, move and fight with guns as golf. I will state this right now- if you do not shoot IPSC or 3-Gun you have zero concept of what good shooting really is and what is possible with a pistol and carbine.

I went to what is the equivalent of the world championships in 3-Gun last weekend to hang out with some friends as I did not sign up for it. Turns out they could fit me in. No problem. Seeing as how I didn't bring anything to shoot a match with I used my duty weapons. A Glock 19 for the pistol using M882 ball ammo, a real issued M4 (14.5 inch barrel with an EOtech) for the rifle using a mixture of MK262 77gr Match, greentip and 60gr VMAX, and a borrowed broken FN shotgun. Out of 250 competitors I placed in the top ten on every single rifle and pistol stage with guns straight out of the armory. Had the shotgun not completely broken on the second to last stage I would have finished in the top ten overall. As it was, borrowing three different shotguns to finish the match, a compact pistol, and an M4 I still finished in the top 15%. Not nearly what I do with my "match" guns but......


Anyone that doesn't shoot 3-Gun that thinks they can outshoot and outrun a gun, any gun, in practical shooting over a top level guy needs to pull their nose away from the blow....

Formidilosus, I'm not sure I get the point of your post. Is it;
a) You're a good shooter to be able to go in cold and place well?
b) The level of competition in 3-Gun is not high and everyone has a chance even if you haven't trained and prepared?
c) Soldiers and Cops are not well trained because they don't do well with 3-Gun which is a good indicator of their job proficiency?

...or is it some combination of the three or some other? Sorry, I'm not the sharpest at understanding these things some times.

A and C for sure. If you think it is B, you are an ignoramous, and have never shot on the same range with world class shooters who frequent the major three gun matches. I have, I KNOW what it is like to be humbled, you should give it a whirl, it'll do you some good.

It's not what I think...it's what he's sayin'. I don't know if it's a,b or c...hence my question. I might not know if it's b, but I'm still probably an ignoramus.

I'm saying that anyone who states that IPSC/3-Gun competitors use gamer guns and that's why they shoot that fast/accurate is smoking crack. I'm also saying that the golf range rifle people need to realize that NRA Highpower is not the measure of practical shooting skill for military, police or civilians. Just like ultra marathoners are not the measure of fitness. Being able to shoot slung up might be important, just like being able to run long might be important. But we live in a 0-400 meter world where being able to lift heavy things, sprint across the street, crush someone's throat and shoot and manipulate our guns extremely fast and accurately is the measure of skill.





As for the level of shooting skill in the military and police world, as much as it pains me to say.... across the board it is atrocious. Take the average Infantryman, SEAL, Ranger, etc. and put him in a 5k race and they will at least make a solid showing if not do very well. Take that same person and put him in a 3-Gun or IPSC match and it's embarrassing. Then they generally start smack talking the "gamers" about how they couldn't do it for "real". Ironically no one ever talks about how the runners couldn't run for "real"..... Fortunately after 11 years of constant war that is starting to change with the Army, Air Force, and Marines all having their own action shooting teams and a lot more individual SOF members starting to compete. At one time the collective shooting knowledge was held within the military and hopefully it will be so again.

That's so good it needs repeating. However I must say that those Camp Perry position shooters can be taught to turn your 400m world into an 800m nightmare with a few weeks of stalking and fieldcraft though. Don't forget that.

I've shot against Robbie Johnson (former AMU 3 gun shooter) and would venture to say that he would probably do pretty respectably in whatever shooting competition he cared to enter. Plus as a combat experienced Ranger he's pretty handy on a 2 way range also.

I heard Johnson left the Army and is working for Remington now.

Indeed. He served in 3/75 sniper section prior to the AMU, where he also won the International Sniper Competition twice. Then he shot Limited Division (iron sights only) in 3-gun for a while.





TAK,

I agree on the position shooting and the skills there. Just addressing the "real shooters" comment....

Johnson did leave the Army and is working for Remington.

I shot against him at the 08 Ft Benning sniper match. His partner St John was a service pistol shooter (IIRC) and Johnson wasn't to far behind him in skill. St John was a another Ranger Batt sniper.
They were a good team.

We shoot some 3 gun matches at local clubs. One club has a mock house setup that we run through and up on the hill we extend the ranges out to around 200 yards. I love shooting 3 gun.

I've never shot 3-gun but have recently had some interest in giving it a whirl. From what I've heard, it's shooting at various unknown distances, with all three platforms, add a little stress of competition, and that seems to add up to good practice if not just plain fun. It seems to me that if you just run whatever kit you have without setting them up to "game" the competition.

Any advice for a guy interested in dipping his toe into the 3-gun world?

Thanks,
Mark

Westy, this should get you started. Go down to the Multi-gun subforum:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

Sorry Gang,
I'm back, and had a chance to read the thread a bit. Contrary to some of the views expressed here, I try to find value in each of the shooting "games" from a skills development perspective. Highpower has taught me the basics of building good solid field positions (with or without slings). From offhand I've learned good trigger control when a solid position is not possible. And wind and condition reading is a given across the course. Value for the warrior in the current theaters? Not my battle. It's just a game for me. I can tell you that the Corps reevaluated their qual course a while back and moved from KD to a more combat style course to meet the needs of the theater at the time.

I had a chance to watch some Robby Johnson video. Some here; http://kellynealsblog.wordpress.com/tag/robbie-johnson/
Looks like something I'd like to give a whirl. Just from the little I've seen on video and in watching a little of matches, I see the premium in mounting and fast acquisition and execution. I could love that.

Robby Johnson seems to excel in anything shooting (he's won the President's 100 tab, as well as a few 1000yd interservice matches while slung up in a jacket), and distinguished himself in combat. Carl Bernosky who won his what 10th NRA Highpower Championship is also a high level Bianchi Cup competitor.

Ain't it great that it's not either or?