thoughts on this as a SHTF rifle. just not a fan of AR style rifle.

It’ll go bang every time. I’ve a 580 series that will hold 2 MOA. You aren’t going to win any matches with one, but that’s not what you’re asking of it. You could do a lot worse.

There are tons of YouTube videos pro and con. Magazines are more expensive then AR or AK. Some say they aren’t reliable and often not accurate enough. Newer seems better in both regards.

I just picked up a new Ranch Rifle in .223 and it hasn’t bobbled anything yet. Four hundred plus and no issues. I would call it a 3 inch rifle at 100 yards with issue peep. Haven’t played around with a dot or scope yet just wanted to break it in. I’m happy with it.

Google will net you more reading and videos on this than you could possibly fathom. Like anything else, they have their ardent fans and haters.

I’ve used both the old pencil barrel and the new models extensively. They are a light and handy rifle, and I find them very ergonomic (assuming you grew up with a traditionally stocked rifle). I really *want* to like them, and I generally do.

Cons: You will pay nearly twice what you do for an AR, and you will end up with a rifle that is not as accurate, reliable, or durable as the average AR. Both of the ones I owned had to go back to Ruger for reliability issues, and I had to fix one myself. Parts are proprietary, and you must use the expensive Ruger factory mags for reliability. Stick with the 20 round Ruger mags, the factory 30’s are awkward and unreliable. They Chuck brass 40 feet, and aftermarket support is nearly nil.

Pros: They are super handy, *especially* with the factory 5 round flush mag. Basically a 6 shot 5.56 10/22. You can get a true folder, but they are expensive. Optics are pretty easy to mount (but not as easy as an AR, and they do well with a low powered scope in Ruger rings. They are also available in stainless, which is nice. A light is pretty easy to mount with a barrel clamp picatinny rail, and they are generally viewed as less ‘threatening’ than an AR. They are also available in some ban states.

I’ve had a ball shooting mine, but they have also caused me to want to pull my hair out chasing reliability and accuracy issues.

I like the Mini, too.

This one has had a lot of work, fortunately back before this kinda stuff got so expensive.

Accuracy Systems did a major upgrade on this one. I did the stock.

It has their three point bedding, trigger job, barrel, brake and gas block.

https://www.accuratemini14.com/

DF

The difference between a Mini 14 and the AR platform is you can invest a lot of money and time trying to turn the Mini into a 1 MOA rifle, where you can generally pick up a $800 - $1000 AR that is already a 1 MOA or better without any headaches.

Geeez I just looked the Ruger site. $1,300 to $1,400 for a Mini!!!! HFS For that kind of money you can have an AR shooter plus scope and ammo.

True.

AR is an accuracy bargain. Lot of performance for the buck.

But to those who really like the Mini platform, those rifles can become pretty interesting. It just takes money.

DF

You can always add wood to an AR - http://www.blackgunswood.com/

They are accurate enough, its the first shot that counts, they will run any ammo and they just work.
They were not made to be moa.
Accuracy systems can improve the trigger, and if you don't want brass ejected to the next zip code, they can help with that too.

Neither of mine ‘just worked’ without going back to Ruger. One would rip the rim off of the case and leave the empty in the chamber. The other would fail to eject and try to feed the empty case along with the next round.

Ruger claimed they replaced the bolt on the first one, and the ejector on the second one. They didn’t do a good job fitting the replacement ejector, so I broke down and ordered a part and fit it myself. In contrast, I’ve had zero functional issues across multiple AR’s.

I like the Mini a lot, but I don’t think I would buy a new one at todays prices.

They used to be "the poor man's AR15". Now, it's completely the other way around. The price is up there pretty high now. I bought my new one several years ago for like $750, and now they are around a thousand dollars. If I were to spend that much money on a Ruger rifle now, I think I'd get one of the brand new Ruger/Marlin 1894s in .357... I just saw two of them in a gun shop with a price tag of $999.99, and they were nice.

I honestly think that if it weren't for the more oppressive states where AR's are generally not available, Ruger would have stopped making the Mini14 years ago. I expect that they keep making it mostly because of these states, where they have a captive market, basically. I think this also helps explain the rather high pricing today.

For SHTF, you can (will) do a lot worse than AR. A sub $500.00 PSA will kick the snout of most mini 14 out there.

I have about 50 varmint rifles. I always grab one of my mini's first. They are just fun to shoot. I dont care about 1" groups, the coyotes and fox we hunt are usually running anyway. Group size doesnt matter then. I guess I dont know why everyone thinks that you have to have such small groups for a hunting rifle.

Have a 580 series mini 14, got a vortex strike eagle 1x8 on it and with 60 Hornady v- max it's a 1/2" or less gun at 100 yards off bags

https://www.ptr-us.com/product/ptr-63/

This might interest some folks.

My Mini's shot horrible with the skinny barrels and factory ammo. There was a big learning curve. My 3 Mini's have the factory heavier barrels (not the target barrels) or an ASI barrel on it. They also have had an ASI trigger job done on them. The best thing I did was get a Hornady case comparator and load my ammo for them. I wish I would of had the comparator with the original barrels. My bet is I would of been absolutely surprised at the headspace numbers. I use the comparator for all of my reloading.

None the less, they are a real handy rifle for those of you who prefer not to keep or use an AR. In many States the people have no choice since AR's are forbidden or are completely "dumbed down" to fit the politics of the left.

kwg

This is my 181 Mini that has been completely disassembled then polished, fitted and accurized in my shop. Went from a 6" old charter boat gun to a .3" group shooter. Has a recoil pad for longer LOP, a trigger job, glass bedded, Wichita scope base, polished rod and parts, fitted gas piston, cut barrel, lathe recrown, front sight removal, 8" barrel shroud. Stock was refinished after 20+ years on a fishing boat. Pretty much builds lke my social 14 that I built.
So far a couple of coyotes and a 300# wild hog. It is a fun gun, and I have a few mags.

it would be a fun gun for $300, but like the other man said, buy a cheap PSA and your already a light year ahead. The only reason to buy a mini is that you just like the looks and they are the red rider bb gun of your heart. Worst one I had which was a SS version, would not hit a 55 gallon drum at 150 yards or so with XM193 off a rest. Finally none of the ones I had were unreliable, at least they went bang all the time, I guess Ruger has improved them.

Beautiful guns, but there's a reason the A-team never hit anyone.

Touchè!


Nicely done….. that made me laugh.


I like the point-a-bilty and handling of the Mini but the horrific accuracy sent all mine down the road. I preferred the ergonomics over an AR, especially for a hunting and truck gun, but that dang lack of accuracy was a game changer. I keep hoping Ruger figures it out. Yes, I’m aware of Accuracy Systems but it shouldn’t require that.

They are effing POS.

i've been reading and watching videos saying the 580 series solved a lot of the accuracy issues.

What about Ruger’s Mini Target Rifle?

They’re supposed to be pretty accurate. I’ve never handled one.

DF

HaHa- nobody ever hit their target with pray
and spray except John Wayne and Lucas McCain

I bet

I have a Mini14 target model I bought 10-15 years ago. I took it to the range shortly after buying it, and it was like shooting a shotgun. I put it in the back of the gun vault and it sat till last fall. I was going to put it up for sale. While looking it over I found a loose scope ring. Thought I might as well go shoot it before selling it. I have a 10 shot target at 50 yards that a nickle covers every round. All thoughts of selling it have gone away. All I can say is sometimes you will find one that shoots.

Oh yeah

A lot, maybe most of the criticism on accuracy is based on early specimens. Mine is a few years old, and while it won’t win any matches, it’ll do 2moa or so with ammo it likes, especially if you discount the first round flyers. Other than a couple failures while testing different size gas ports, mine has never, repeat never failed to function. It will hit what needs hitting. I spent $100 on a trigger job and got a decent 4-pound pull.

I find it odd that AKs get so much love despite their notorious poor accuracy, while Rugers are damned for the same level of precision or even better. My previous AR, a Springfield Saint, was no more accurate than my Mini, and far less reliable. I watch a lot of gun tests, in particular mrgunsngear and Honest Outlaw, and based on those I think the accuracy of ARs is often overrated. Yeah, they can be very accurate, but run of the mill carbines seem to be, like current Mini 14s, usually “service grade”.

This video features, among other stuff, a session with Saint Clint, who says the Minis are fine, as long as you use Ruger mags and not cheap knockoffs. I read that elsewhere and OEM mags is all I own.




Current street price seems to be just over a grand, and you can buy or build a pretty good AR for that much, no doubt. OTOH, the Mini has pretty conventional ergos, especially with 5-shot mags, is IME extremely reliable, and if left in the corner or behind the seat of your truck for months without cleaning or other maintenance, it’ll probably go bang on demand.

Good post. In a different thread, there was a guy bragging about how good his mini 14 shoots. Something to the effect that it will outshoot any/most AR15's. Wondering how much money he has in that one?

Maybe a little harsh, but not far from the truth.

Amazing.

I've owned a bunch of Minis (and M1A's which are cousins). That design of action-to-stock lockup generally "needs" bedding if you want to get down to around, say 1.5 MOA. The stock to action fit is just pretty loose and can move around in a bunch of different directions. Also, Mini's are often overgassed but that can be fixed by replacing the generously sized factory gas port.

I like the design and I also like how they look with wood stocks.

Agree that bedding helps. Accuracy Systems three point bedding seems to be a very good approach.

Someone mentioned “over gassed”. If designers are going for function as the number one feature, you want a robust gas effect. The AK-47 isn’t known for match accuracy but they go bang every time.

Accuracy Systems has a gas block that can be tuned. Mine doesn’t have it, but I can see how tuning the gas for least disruption and vibration, dropping cases where you want them is desirable.

But as mentioned several times, an AR out of the box is going to out shoot a Mini out of the box.

I have both, still like the ergonomics of the Mini.

DF

I've had a 14 and a 30 but switched to Ar platforms.Both the Rugers were average shooters but adding the adjustable gas block sure helped---that is a must add feature if you're keeping a Mini

I bought the port kit from AS. It definitely helped tame the ejection, and the accuracy a bit. I’ll probably get the adjustable one when the smoke clears a bit from all the other stuff I really needed of late. I have some notions I’d like to explore, and for the price, that’s a more convenient way to go over more port swapping.

I’d like to try bedding as well, but shipping is such a PITA and risky, so I’ll probably look into a DIY approach. Still, the current level of performance is completely satisfactory for that rifle’s purpose. I see lots of AR carbine shooters on the 50-yard range nearby, and they’re not doing any better than I am, often worse.

Doesn't a 1" rifle give you a better chance of putting the bullet where you are aiming than a 4" rifle does?

Maybe missing is part of the sport?

I’ve bedded a bunch of rifles, lots of bolt guns, even a Win. M-100, never tried a Mini.

DF

I like them for what they are. My old one is a stainless 188 series pencil barrel Ranch Rifle which was our ranch truck rifle. Cracked a couple of windshields with it shooting coyotes and hogs.

With that rifle I've shot several 1 inch 3 shot groups at a hundred but only did that with first round shots over several days. Trying to shoot groups other than first rounders would go 3-4 inches.

About six years ago when our northern Nevada Walmarts still sold guns I found a 583 series on closeout using Brickseek. One of the stores had two in stock @ $399 and my intention was to buy both.

Got to the store and was talking to the guy who was in line in front of me and he had the same idea. This was the year they were closing out Weatherby Vangards @ $249 for synthetic stocks and $299 for wood. Bought a bunch of those too.

The guy in front of me was a gentlemanly sort and didn't hog both guns so I bought the last one. When we got it out of the box to log the serial number I noticed the stock was cracked at the wrist. I was going to pass but the manager offered a 10% discount so I bought it for $359. Ruger customer service being as good as they've always been to me sent a new stock.

It's just sat in the safe unfired but I need to send it to AS for a trigger job, bedding and a adjustable gas block. Might even put on a mini strut. It should still be way less $$ than a new one.

Yeah.

DF

A lot of people gripe about it being "overgassed" and flinging their precious empty cases 20 yards away. I personally don't care where my empties go, as long as they're not hitting me. I say let them suckers fly. I don't find the .223 cartridge to be a terribly economical cartridge to reload anyway.

The challenge with the Mini is getting a better fit without affecting the ease of takedown. AS drills holes in the stock and if I understand it correctly, fits pins to the action that mate with metal sockets in those holes. A roll of Gorilla tape might work just as well, if not as elegantly; just strap that sucker in!

Been looking a bit at piston ARs, mostly the Adams Arms P2, or rather the upper since I now have a lower. They run cleaner and cooler than the DI ones, except for your hand holding onto the forend which can get pretty smoked up. Better than the face I guess.

I doubt Gorilla tape will anchor the action in the stock as rigidly as those three screws. AS will epoxy threaded inserts in the stock to receive Allen head machine screws.

I took the factory stock, cut the top quarter off on a table saw, glued a piece of wood, sculpted the now higher comb for better cheek weld. I then painted the stock with crinkle rattle can black paint.

It’s held up pretty well.

DF

Hell yes it does!!!



I've never seen a mini shoot that well. Post them up, if you have them.

Probably not many quarter MOA mini’s. Mine as posted is approx a half MOA gun. And that’s after a bunch of expensive Accuracy Systems work.

Quarter MOA is not easy to achieve, even with a well tuned bolt gun.

I’ve posted that an AR out of the box will most likely out shoot a Mini out of the box. Their Target Mini with some load development can be pretty interesting.

But if you’re comparing tuned up Mini with tuned up AR, AR likely to win again.

DF

Unfortunately the target model was .223 only. Not an issue for some, but I’d rather be able to run 5.56 in a mini. There is also a big difference between putting up a single fluke 1/2” 3-shot group and being able to repeatedly shoot repeated 5-shot groups of a specific size.

Bought this one from a Texas State Trooper going to Louisiana to work Katrina. I've got $500 in it, plus mags I've bought for it. Shoots minute of bad guy, eats anything I put through it, and goes bang every single time. I've been meaning to send it to AS to have them work their magic on it, but just haven't gotten around to it yet. Other stuff keeps getting prioritized ahead of it. Great ally gun for family, friend or drop over the fence to a neighbor to help them keep their place safe.

AR every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Accuracy, price, CHEAP priced mags of top quality and accessories beyond your imagination. Mini 14? Still a dog turd by.any stretch of the imagination. You asked..mb

Mini 14 is the biggest POS Ruger ever made. Most AR15's will shoot circles around a mini.

That was a joke, of sorts. Mine is fine as it is for its purpose. The adjustable gas block may or may not tighten groups up, but groups aren’t the goal.

I’m wondering if shutting the gas off completely will affect POI, maybe make every shot a first-round flyer? For certain, no having to chase brass would be a bonus.

I understand that in the UK you can have a Mini but it can't shoot semi auto. They plug up the gas bushing and now it's a bolt action with a straight pull bolt. This supposedly makes for an accurate Mini. I never could get better than 1 1/2" inches with a skinny barrel Mini and that was with a lot of load development.

Getting the right load helps a Mini shoot less than 2" especially in the new barrels. (580 series with the .625 barrels) I think the key is getting the case sized right and a faster burning powder. RL10 or AA2015. I have tried heavier bullets than the 55 grain but I can't seem to find the right one. I've also had good groups with IMR 3031, H335 and AA2230. I've had no luck with any powder slower than AA2460. Winchester 748. Forget about it. IMR 4895 No way.

The advantage of the faster burning powder is the cases don't fly so far. The fix for that is a new gas bushing or an adjustable gas block if you want to spend the money. It seems if you have a well broken in Mini that misfeeds or rips the heads off of cases it's because the bolt is moving too fast and the magazine can't get a new cartridge up fast enough to catch the bolt going forward.

Slow down the bolt speed
resize your cartridge case to fill the chamber
find the right powder and the right load
trigger job.

You can bed around the action in a wood stock in a traditional manner or in the case of the plastic stocks we use a small piece of old credit card to hold the actions a bit tighter in the stock.

That's the key to a more accurate Mini 14 but they will never be a prairie dog shooter. The skinny barrels require a "strut" if none of the above work.

kwg

I see by several of the comments many people are still years behind when it comes to the mini-14...

Unlike a cheap ass AK or a decent AR, Minis don't have chrome lined barrel, chambers or even gas systems. The gas system is, contrary to popular belief, based on the M1 Carbine, not the M-14. The heavy slide banging against the gas block all but guarantees less than stellar accuracy.
They are always overgassed and beat the [bleep] out of brass, the worst part being the rim lifts.

I think of them as a powerful 10/22 - useful at about the same ranges, but with more power.

By all means show us some updated results. I'd pick one up again if they were still light, handy, affordable and now accurate. I have to say the first mini-14 I had had the wooden op rod cover but it shot well enough with the peep sight, that a couple of my friends wound up buying one. Then the Ranch Rifle came out and we just had to have them with scopes on them and found out how unaccurate they were.

Best one I had would put 4 in 1.5" which would've been great but the first shot was always 3-4" away from the rest.
AR's are half the price, almost half the weight, twice as accurate and more reliable.

Well, weight depends on the AR. but the other points do have some merit.

DF

Don't mess with it. Those have some serious demand. The front sight in the middle of the barrel stops some of the harmonic vibration and they typically give better accuracy than a standard skinny barrel Mini.

kwg

kwg, it has shot well since I got it. I have not messed with it. It is minute of bad guy at 100. That's all I need it to do. It does not jam. It does not Short Stroke. Feed it quality 55 grain ammo and it just runs. And you are right. It is not the skinny barrel. Nowadays, its role is more of an ally gun. Something to hand family or friends, or I can hand it over the fence to a neighbor who needs to protect their Homestead, too. For $500 and some mags (all Ruger factory), I figure I'm good. It is mechanically and cosmetically pristine. I also have an Inland 1944 M1 carbine that suits a similar role. Even in the hands of a small female or a 15-16 year-old youngster, they and these rifles are quite capable.

for the price I'd still stick with an AR. but I do have a Mini -14 bought in 1982.

Mine is SS, and the barrel hammer-forged, so chrome isn’t missed. A gas port kit from AS is $35, buffers $15. They also have a stronger guide spring for $18; might get one of those, but the buffers work well.

That TFB video shows Lawyer James engaging targets out to IIRC, 400 yards with his, which isn’t modified AFIK. The vintage of the Minis definitely matters, and it’s not just about the barrel weight. They spent a lot of time and effort improving them. I wouldn’t bother with an older one myself as there’s just too much to deal with. I spent $150 on mine, trigger job, buffers, and gas port kit. It’s accurate enough for hunting, and social work, and totally reliable. I took it down for cleaning once, but there wasn’t enough there to bother. I put a drop or so of oil here and there once in awhile, but the manual warns against overdoing it because it holds dirt. I think it would run just fine totally dry.

The OP asked about it as a SHTF piece. I think it’s about perfect, although I’m also thinking my Bear Creek .22 mag fills the bill too, and the ammo is much lighter, so a feller could carry a bunch.

Going to have to check out James' video.

I have been shooting a 188 series Ranch Rifle for over 20 years now. It has had a trigger job and a few other things done to it. It's a solid 2 inch at 100 yards rifle. Most of the time I shoot milsurp M193 in it, but it handles my handloaded 64 grain Winchester soft points well. Like virtually all Mini 14s, it is totally reliable, no matter what some folks think.
I was given an elderly, and broken AimPoint 5000. The factory did a complete refurbishing job on it, and it's like new now. The sight and the rifle are much the same age and go well together.

Great report pappy
I would skip the stronger spring. It just bangs the gas block that much harder. If you have slowed up the speed of the op-rod with smaller gas bushings, you don't need the stiffer spring. The next thing I would buy for my Mini is a scout mount rail from Ultimax. Some of the guys who own Mini's on Perfect Union have bought the scout mount rails and put a red dot on them. Save the money on the spring and get the scout mount.

kwg

The most loved/hated carbine ever.

All this talk of the mini 14 is good I suppose, but what about the mini 30, now let’s talk mini’s

Mini 14 discussions are always interesting.

MIni 30's. Get a second firing pin with a bit more protrusion, skip the extra power hammer spring and stop wasting your money on Wolf ammo.

kwg

Okay, about that SHTF ammo weight, just for grins. Kitchen scale, so ounces and grams.

50 round box Fiocchi .223 1#5.8oz Single round 12grams

50 round box .22 Mag Fiocchi 40gr 9.1oz Single round 4grams

50 round box .22 Mag Hornady 30gr 8.1oz Single round 4grams (obviously the scale ain't all that accurate at that weight)

A single round of CCI Mini Mag weighs 3grams for comparison, again subject to the crappy kitchen scale accuracy.

Previously I weighed a box of 5.7 and IIRC it weighed just over 12oz

My notion of SHTF would be being mobile, maybe limited to what I could carry, and not looking for trouble, but rather avoiding it and trying to make meat along the way. .22 mag is much more effective than .22LR, weighs less than half of what .223 weighs, and the ammunition is much more resistant to weather and handling than LR as well. In addition, we now have some pretty good .22 mag pistols, so one ammo type can work for both. If we eliminate the heavy plastic boxes the rimfire round comes in, 3x the ammo can be carried if .22 mag is chosen over .223 for the same weight penalty.

Just something to mull over. If the doody hits the fan, I’ll stay put if at all possible, being old and creaky, and thus have all kinds of stuff available.

Hmm my 882 Marlin ss bolt gun in 22 mag is a good shooter with Hornady 30 gr Vax load at $20 / box. Normal 40 gr fmj or jhp not near as good. 35 to 40 cents a round about the same as 55fmj 223. The mags for the 882 were hard to find and cost 3 to 4 times as much as a 30 rd ar mag. That's infrastructure that doesn't exist for my 22 mag or mini 14's but you can go damn near anywhere and buy ammo , magazines, and all the parts A to Z for an AR. The commonality of AR's availibility is overwhelming compared to anything else with only the common 10/22 comparable. I had 2 different mini's, ar for the win.
Mb

In your doomsday scenario, if you need more gun than a .22 you can always shoot the guy with a bigger gun and take his ammo. That's how you rock after armageddon.

speaking of firing pins, do the mini's have a reputation for breaking them?? Then ruger will not send you one, and you have to send the gun in to them? I am not speaking from experience on this subject, but what a crucial part to have break when you needed it most.

Not that I’m aware of. I’ve dry-fired mine a lot. AS sells them, OEM and “improved”. Haven’t checked Ruger, Brownells, Midway, etc. AS also has complete bolts and some other parts. No idea if fitting is required.

I had forgotten that, but AS will help. They’re a good bunch to work with. Sending a “worked over” Ruger back for repair, not a good idea. They’ll do their best to make it “factory” and at your expense. No thanks.

DF

Bob, how long since you bought .223? I haven’t seen any $.40 in a long while. Just checked ammoseek and there’s a lot for $.44-$.45, shipping extra, and cheap crap I wouldn’t expect to get good accuracy from. No sense picking an AR for its accuracy and ending up with it shooting like a Mini because of cheap ammo.😛 I sure wish I could go back and scarf up some of that Fiocchi I used to buy loaded with VMaxes for $20 for 50. Still have some 40gr. The last I bought was just over $30, with free shipping. Pretty good stuff. Costs more now, but still a good deal.

You’re right about AR stuff being all over, and cheap. How long that will last under SHTF is anyone’s guess.

I’m not saying Minis are better than ARs; that’s just silly, but a good one is a good capable rifle, and they have some advantages, flush-fit mags is one, for me anyway. Low to no maintenance is a pretty big one.

Fun stuff, this. Lets hope it stays that way……

Parts for old ones are either limited availability or unavailable from Ruger according to their website.

My SS Ranch came with a rail that screws to the receiver flats. I’ve run red dots, prisms, and scopes on that. Might someday replace it with one that clamps to the dovetails. Now it’s wearing a SWFA 1-4.

One other thing I did was to drill out the swivel bases to accept regular QDs. That gas block is harder than woodpecker lips.

M-Lok is a huge plus on ARs. I already have three small ones on my BC upper, a swivel stud, and ones for a Streamlight and tiny CT green laser.

can get a new AR for 500 bucks...thats enough reason not to buy a mini. Granted if the tool fixes the problem thats all that matters.

Check out the rail on the AS worked over Mini I posted earlier. Works well.

DF

rost, I've got plenty of ARs. One mini. Don't need a $500 AR.

I have one Mini, the one shown, more AR’s.

DF

wonder which would last longer under heavy use of $500 AR or mini??

AR.

IMO

DF

And are we comparing a $500 retail AR to a retail Mini, or a "deal" $500 AR to a Mini? Retail-to-retail I'd def say the AR.

AR is a military grade rifle designed for full auto.

Mini not military grade, a sporting grade semi auto that can be made to go full auto.

DF

I can understand getting a Mini 14 for a project gun to see if you can make it shoot well and be reliable.

If you are looking for something dependable when SHTF then the AR is light years ahead and a much smarter choice.

Bedding a wood stock Mini is similar to M1As and the wood is going to move. Hardly something one wants to deal with when the chips are all out on the table.

Add in the open top of the Mini allowing dirt, ice, and debris into the action.

I would take a $500 AR over any Mini 14 for serious things.

Guys are grasping at straws to defend their poor mini's. I'd take one of these way before a schidt show shooting mini14:

The Mini 30's were breaking firing pins, especially after the owners installed a stronger hammer spring. It appears that the firing pins on the Mini 14's that shoot commercial or military ammo were breaking far fewer times than the Mini 30's. I am not aware of any Mini 14 broken firing pins. Not that it couldn't happen.

It seems after some guys did the research on the Mini 30 firing pins, they could not set off some brands of Russian and Chinese 7.62x39 ammo. Or they could only set off the ammo after hitting it a second time. Some of that ammo has the primers set deeper than American commercial ammo. There was a company that was selling heavier hammer springs and people were buying them so they could use the cheap Russian and Chinese ammo. This resulted in lot's of broken firing pins specifically on the Mini 30's.

YES, you do have to send in the whole gun if you want Ruger to replace it. Keep in mind, that Ruger would also replace the hammer spring, putting a factory spring back on the trigger group. Those guys who were doing the research at Perfect Union started getting a second firing pin just in case the first one broke. Ruger charged a premium for that service. For years there was only one company making firing pins and they were junk. (Glendarms) There is now a company that will sell you a firing pin (a good one) and the guys at Perfect Union added a bit more protrusion to the pin to hit those hard to reach because they were set deep primers. Keep in mind the primers are Berdan primers and are made for AK47's and SKS's to set off. Not Mini 30's.

I'm sure it's possible to break a Mini 14 firing pin but I haven't heard of that happening. It was the Mini 30's that were breaking and as far as I know, it was because they were trying to set off the Russian and Chinese ammo and many were adding the stronger hammer spring.

kwg

My guess is the reason the MIni's are so expensive is because of the States that do not allow AR's to be sold. I understand there are waiting lists in some of those States for Mini's. Supply and demand at work.

Maybe the Supreme Court will fix some of that in the near future.

kwg

Yeah, that AR pistol grip stock makes’em more dangerous.

Mini looks more like a regular rifle, less menacing.

DF

One advantage to a wood stocked mini, is less jail time if you ever have to shoot someone.

I can be a bit stubborn. I used to be a huge Ruger fan and have never been a bandwagon type. I have had 3 Minis. None of them shot worth a piss. Finally said screw it and hopped on the AR bandwagon. There's an AR bandwagon for a reason.

Found a factory plastic stock for a mini 14 for $25.00, now I know why they sold it, wasent going to do the accuracy job on it as I did the wood stock

Yeah, looks less lethal to a jury, more like a typical hunting rifle, not a military, people killing rifle.

Crazy world.

DF

I have one just to have one, never had to have one due to their accuracy but I ran across one from 1979 that looked brand new for 450 just a few years ago. Too good a deal to pass up.

Apparently there is some statistics regarding this.

It is a crazy world

Agree. Why it took so long for Ruger to dump that skinny barrel and tighten up the chambers tolerances 40 years ago we will never know. Ruger had the market for years because the AR's were sometimes 3 times as high as a Mini 14. They could of had the .223 crowd eating out of their hands for years but once word got out that the Mini's had accuracy issues, folks gave up on them. When the prices of AR's started coming down the Mini's were for the most part, kicked down the road. Now it's the banned States that is holding up the prices. Hopefully, that can't last forever and prices will moderate at some point.

kwg

I’ll leave it here.

I'll leave you with this:

$1,300 for >2 MOA

OR

$600 for <1 MOA

The decision is yours...

Whatever

Nice presentation. Thanks for sharing.

He made some good points.

DF

I am not in the hate the mini 14 camp, but I sure would not pay more than $600 for one. Its a good truck gun, not worth putting an optic on, in a state that hates ar's I am sure I would feel different. I have to question the merit of the looks of the gun in a jury trial, and if that is all the mini has to hang its hat on, then let's see some proof of that comment. In a self defense shooting, if you were within your rights, in a state that allowed ar's, I would need to see proof to accept that one. OTOH, these days with crooked DA's and prejudiced juries, it probably wont matter what you use.

Unfortunately, perception often becomes reality.

I’d rather be in court with a Mini vs. an AR as evidence.

Woke lawyers would have a circus with that terrible killer gun, the AR. Juries generally aren’t that smart. Experts say, think like you’re talking to a bunch of cab drivers.

Always something to think about, especially considering where you live.

DF

There is nothing wrong with this rifle for home defense or even hunting. There is no doubt it is reliable. But, if going to court is a worry, how would this rifle compare to an AR or AK in the court room. It looks traditional. Kinda. Maybe with the wood stock.

The bottom line is, I really don't think the lawyers care. After brainwashing the jury, it won't make any difference. The SKS, AK, AR or Mini 14 will all be grouped into the same camp and it will be up to you to suffer the consequences should the jury go with whatever the prosecutor says.

Buy the rifle you want and be done with it. Unfortunately, the Mini's have exploded in price. None of us can fix that as long as folks are voting left of center and law schools are cranking out underemployed attorneys who owe thousands in school loans.

kwg

Thats a shame. But I believe any good trial will toss that BS aside with a good attorney. Just like reloads or HP vs FMJ and so on.

I hear your thinking. I just sure hope the USA isn't at that point. It wouldn't fly in AK that way I dont think. But it sure could in areas of TX I guess.

Depends on the venue.

I’d think you’d be OK in Alaska

Look at DJT in DC, NYC and Atlanta courts. Pretty woke, all. And they’re not the only leftest venues out there.

A “jury of one’s peers” is a myth in those areas.

DF

I think they are a great truck gun, got mine from a guy I worked with in the 80’s, has been in a lot of my trucks over the years, been in my feed truck for 14 years, kills as good now as way back, always been scoped, I will say at 300 yards running coyote or hogs, it’s not as good as my AR’s but I love the way it feels and fits, at 150 yards it a killer.

Yeah, Angus, the way it handles, feels and fits can be a big deal vs the AR.

DF

I always had a soft spot for the Mini-14. Turns out they aren't as reliable or accurate as an AR and are significantly more expensive. ARs are also more easily to outfit with white lights and optics. Replacement parts are easier to find and cheaper for the AR. This is a no-brainer.

A good shoot is a good shoot, and the reference is likely to the James Reeves article, is not an apples to apples comparison.

The best thing about a mini-14 was that they were light and handy. Hanging a heavy barrel on it along with spending more on the gun than what you paid for it, just so it will shoot smaller groups is not a good move.

isn't that exactly what AR 15 fan boys do? Hanging all sorts of stuff on their rifles? Not even to make it shoot better, just to make it more tacti-kool?

Well I have spent money on barrels but only light weight tubes for me. Save a couple of Noveske lightweight barrels, they weigh way more than any pencil barrel but they shoot.

But to the point, I add a good light, good stocks, hand guards, optics, BUIS’s and now I’ve jumped into night vision so an IR illuminator and a thermal scanner…

Yeah forget what I said. 😎

I think hanging too much stuff on a rifle tends to spoil the balance and handiness. A light, optic, and a sling are about all I want. Even then, a big/heavy optic can muck it up. It’s amazing how good a bare iron sighted rifle handles. I agree that this is where the mini excels.

Legally that is correct.

Perception in some venues may be as important, or maybe even more important, than the fine points of law.

Depends on who and where, seems to me.

DF

I put a Tuner/Comp on mine that I can adjust. Went from 6-8" @100 yards to 1-1/2" .

I have a newer, wooden stock, 584 Series Mini14, bought new from Bud's when the "Great Reset" started in March 2020. I have and have had a ton more AR's over the years. I like my AR's, I LOVE my Mini! I should've bought a Mini 30-40yrs ago, but it wouldn't have the accuracy this new model has anyway. I ONLY shoot factory, bulk 55gr fmj brass thru all my rifles, with my Redfield 3x9x40 on it, at the bench, 1.25"-1.75" groups, ALL DAY LONG, at the 100yd marker. Most 3-5 groups go 1.5". BUY ONE, you won't regret it!

still $900 plus tax for a rifle with proprietary magazines, questionable accuracy, and most have no rails to put a light on, or $900 for a rifle with better accuracy, a rail to put a light on, generic magazines, and unlimited parts availability. OTOH if you love the mini, (I have had 3 of them), then go for it! I have had one rust a op rod to the gas port, so if your looking for something to be ready, then get a rifle that has been in use since vietnam, and most of the bugs have been worked out. The mini's scratch a particular itch, but they are in no way equal to a good ar regards durability, accuracy, reliability or they would have been universally adopted.

Your points about mags, parts, etc are spot on, but I’m not so sure about ARs being more ready to go, given their preference for being “wet”. I think my Mini, a SS Ranch, will run dead dry. I follow the factory recommendation of only oiling it lightly, and the piston system keeps the action clean (and cool). Since I have a lower now from another project I’m looking into another upper, but it’ll probably be a piston one, the Adams Arms P2, which has a some really good reviews from trusted YouTubers. Others, not so much.

No rule against having both!

6 pages and this thread is still going. I have both AR's and Mini's. I have a couple of Mini's with the .625 barrels. They are great rifles if you like the Garand action. I have a synthetic stock rifle and a laminated stock rifle. I like them both. I got them both a decent prices so I could afford to stick some money into them to make them better.

If a traditional style rifle is what you want or if your State mandates no AR's, the Mini is still a viable alternative. I'm sure they are not for everyone. I do like mine and my son wants them when I am done with them. That tells me they have a purpose and will be around for the future.

This one has an ASI .625 barrel on it and I put it in a laminated stock. The stock is a bit heavy but the rifle shoots well and has been reliable. The stock is cut down by 3/4 of an inch which makes it a bit more compact. It's not an MOA rifle but it's under 3" at 100 with the iron sights. It's a Mini 14 (.223) version of my 30 carbine.

I wish someone would make a side sling for the front gas block like the old Ruger GB models used to have. It would make the rifle that much easier to carry around while out on the 4 wheeler.

kwg

Swing that picatinny you aren’t using 90 degrees CWW and hang a sling swivel on it.

I thought about it but I cant help but think using the sling as a steady rest would put a ton of pressure on to the barrel.

kwg

Mini-14’s will not run dry for very long.

It would put some pressure on it, but no more than the side sling on the gas block that the older Mini GB’s had, and no more than a standard AR sling on the front sight base.

Personally, I just am not an AR guy. I do have one, a Colt EPR, and also spent my fair share of time behind a M-16, but I just have never warmed up to the platform.

My Mini-14 on the other hand feels much better to me, despite the mediocre accuracy. I am actually thinking about getting a M1A just because I like the way they feel better than an AR-10. My Mini-14 is scoped with a Leupold 4x because I didn’t buy it for long range precision.

The non-standard magazines and possible accuracy issues are the only ‘bad’ thing about them IMO, as I have no desire for pic rails with accessories on them anyhow.

not cheaper but interesting Fightlite Ares SCR

The Adams Arms P2 (Upper is $499.99 right now on sale) and the Brownells BR-180 V2 are also good options for someone that like the piston concept. Neither of those suffers from issues like carrier-tilt, and the BR-180 can be put on a suitable lower that allows for a folding stock.

With M193 ball ammo, and a few simple mods, the 580 Series Mini-14 is a fine <3MOA/200 yard field carbine, and will tear [bleep] up.






GR

Depending on when and where you can take
wt deer with it and the old Winchester black
box supreme with the deer head on the side of
the box.

Have to say many of the bad experiences stated here have never been my experience. I have owned probably a dozen Minis of various calibers and series over the years and have always found them to be reliable and accurate enough for practical field use. I enjoy plinking with them as well. I would not feel under gunned if a Mini was all I had

If your AR 15 does not look like this, it will not function and you might as well throw it in the river, for all the good it'll do you.



Mini-14s don't need all that stuff.

L.W.

What if Ruger had designed the mini to use AR mags and had paid more attention to fine points like accuracy. Ya think that could have been done without cost going thru the roof?

DF

I put a flashlight rail on my tactical model, underneath the forearm. Drilled a couple of holes is all.

If minute of coffee can lid accuracy is all you need, there's no reason not to spend much more for a Mini 14 and its magazines.

Nah, ya need more rails, more attached stuff to be tacticool.

But that’s a start.

DF

I have OFTEN seen people cry "oh, why didn't they design the Mini-14 to take AR magazines???"

There's a reason you people aren't gun designers.

Well, it might have made dollars and sense.

DF

The skinny barrel and the generous chamber was a couple of mistakes Ruger made with the Mini. I had a 181 series (1977) that was a 6" gun at 100 yards. They had the market in the late 70's and blew it. It's a much improved rifle from what it was in the late 70's but the damage has been done.

Accuracy Systems of Colorado has made a pile of money making the Mini what it should of been from the start. I had ASI install new barrels on 3 Minis. I bought them cheap enough that I could afford to have them do the work. It's hard to justify the costs now considering that an AR is 1/2 the price of a Mini before sending it off to ASI.

The States that have banned the AR's are keeping the Mini alive along with over seas sales. There is Competition from FightLite that might eat into Ruger's Mini 14 sales.
https://fightlite.com/rifles/scr


kwg

One target from a Mini, the other from an AR with Eotech. Ball ammunition at 100 yards. Leaning

Don’t forget that when the Mini was designed, civilian ARs were far from common; no $10 pmags.

Yeah and they were following the M-14 general design.

DF

Yes. That has been ignored through this whole thread.

Buddy of mine bought his Colt SP1 carbine new for under $300 in the early 70’s.

Another buddy bought his M-16 for $295.

Surplus 20 round USGI mags were $4-6 each in the mid 80’s.

The last new factory Colt’s I bought were a 6920 for $750 out the door and $850 for a 6720.

My first mini-14 was bought in 1985 for $350 used and 20 round factory mags were $25 a pop.

I loved the mini-14 and have had a half dozen or so but the better gun won me over.

Nobody’s ignoring anything.

except I'm taking it you've never shot a modern 580 or newer series mini have you... like I said an earlier post some people are 20 plus years behind

Why would I?

But yes, I’ve shot a new one just a couple years ago. Did not impress me.

Some people think their experience is the only experience.

I laid out facts and my experience has been more than most. Some people have a soft spot for the mini-14 and I won’t tell anyone not to buy one.

But my experience is all that matters to me. I won’t be swayed by anyone else’s opinion.

I have owned 3 Minis. Two old style and one new style. They were stone cold reliable, but not accurate at all. The only way I favor them over AR platforms is that they are not nearly as tall/high as an AR.

$500-$699 yes, but after that they aren’t worth it.

Geez, I just looked at their MSRP wow. The 300 BO and the Mini 30 soundly be kinda cool. But if I’m going to spend that much money on a 7.62 I would get a PTR 32 that takes AK mags and eats steel.

We can agree on that, for certain. Long as mine continues to perform well, it’s got a home here. Now that the killin’ is almost over, I want to air it out a bit on steel at 200-300 yards. Don’t think I ever shot it at over 100. 2MOA will kill any plate they have at the range right up the road if I point it right.

Not everyone has a good experience with Mini's, I agree. I blame it on Ruger. Skinny barrels and loose tolerances have made the Mini reliable. The expensive factory magazines and magazines from other companies that were just plain junk have taken their toll on the Mini's reputation. I am forced to agree with those folks who will not own one because of the reported issues with the Mini. Here again, I blame Ruger. I do know that USA sales are probably just a small portion of their Mini sales. Countries around the world arm their police and military with Mini's. My suspicion is the USA market is too small to get all burned up about.

The bottom line is it's all about making money and selling to 3rd world countries seems to be their bread and butter. Not the domestic market.

kwg

Not a Mini or an AR, but a 300 BO Ranch Rifle with a can. It's quiet and pretty accurate. Can shoot it subsonic with heavies or fast with the 110 gr. TAC TX.

Of course, gotta adjust POI. I've yet to check out Hammer bullets for this round. They're gonna have something interesting, I'd think.

I'm not too crazy about the plastic OEM mag, prefer metal AR Mags.

DF

Amen brother, after 3 of them, I felt I had given them more than a fair shake. If you love the mini for its specific features, fine and more power too you. OTOH, no one can deny that they will never ever be in the same class as a $1000 AR15 for more specific "objective' reasons than I care to list.

I have wanted a stainless mini since I was a kid watching the A-team.

But haven't scratched that itch yet, they never hit anybody.

Well, it is fictional TV after all.

kwg

I got a friend who claimed he had a Mini chambered in 222. I’d never heard of it.

Was tongue in cheek.

They did chamber the 222, some foreign countries don’t allow military chamberings.

I believe France, specifically.
At least for the .222 REM Mini-14.

If memory serves there was one in the classifieds here in the last couple years

I was thinking France but wasn’t sure, I saw one once at the Wanenmacher gun show in Tulsa years ago.

Yes. I believe it was France. I’ve only ever seen two them.

Yes, I gathered that. I guess I was stating the obvious. Maybe they didn't want to hit anybody ?? It's not that the gun was flawed, they were crappy shots maybe ?

kwg

It's my understanding that in France you can't have a rifle that shoots the same round as their military and that is why they have the .222.

kwg

My only experinece with the Mini is my only ever Mini, 584 Series. Thing shoots lights out at 100-200yds, and that's all I ever expect from ANY of my rifles, so for me it is an equal to all my AR's, bolt guns, levers, etc...Cons are weight, expensive/rarity of Factory mags. Mine wears a Leupy 3x10x40 VariX3, couldn't be happier with it.

I have one of those as well. I want all of my bases covered.

kwg

Had one in 222, sold it for 3x what I paid