Looking at swapping out my AR upper for something more accurate. It is an M-16 upper in the A2 configuration. Honestly, it’s not all that accurate and I’m entertaining the idea of just buying a whole new upper, in the same configuration. Windham? White Oak? Others? Seems I can get into one for roughly $500. Or I could try Compass Lake for twice that.

Just for target practice, groundhogs, occasional whitetail. I’d like to be able to get inch groups at 100 with a scope on top. Even less would be nice of course.

I put this out here not knowing what to expect for my dollar but knew the Illuminati on this forum have forgotten more than I know at this point.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Man, I've gotten lucky on some A2 uppers. All shooting very well. What brand is yours? The old Bushmasters, Colts, and Oly Arms have shot well.

For a newer upper, I'd look at the Windham Weaponry, if you can still buy one. Last I heard is they are shutting down. Of course WOA is going to shoot great too. Maybe Colt has the same configuration you are looking for?


Good luck with it.

I don't think that you'd be disappointed with a WOA upper.

Their barrels are very good & their handguardss are nicely finished & sturdy, but a little heavy.

Their actual upper receiver & BCG are plain jane, as are the ones from Compass Lake, but Compass Lake will build on your receiver if you so choose

Rock River gets a lot of kudos fwiw, no 1st hand exposure there, though.

MM

My preference order but... found Windham Weaponry and Rock River Arms to be boringly accurate, even my PSA does under 1" at 100 ...when I do my part.

if I had to blindly bet of the most accurate of those noted that I recall it would go to White oak or Compass Lake.

That said, with reloads, its rare that an upper won't shoot moa these days. Nephew reminded me one barrel he put on is like 3 moa last night. I asked where did he get it. No clue. I said oh one of those ebay barrels again... LOL. So far every bear creek supposed junk uppers, including the last 4 we paid 199 each for, have shot moa with the right ammo. They sent a bad 22 lr upper a year or so ago. I played with making it right for a week or so and gave up. They sent a brand new one thats been nice since... So I suspect their warranty is good too.

But if blindly wanted best accuracy and couldn't use our private smith, then I would call White Oak and tell em what I wanted and find out how much I had to pay for it. IE they may tell you, you don't need a full custom upper.

WOA has a decent selection of off the shelf uppers these days; enough to satisfy most average buyers.


MM

Could you just change out the barrel? Pretty easy to do.

For a nice quality, middle of the road upper I’d look at BCM. Large variety of different configurations available. Good accuracy and reputation.

I have a 16" stainless Ballistic Advantage I really like. If I build another AR15 I'm getting the 18" version of this one.

https://www.ballisticadvantage.com/...dlength-ar-15-barrel-premium-series.html

I've had good luck with BCM uppers and my WOA 3 gun barrel shoots well, so I think either of those are good choices. Kind of upper mid range as far as cost.

I have started assembling my own uppers. It's easy enough not to be intimidating. If you lived near me I'd recommend you buy a Ballistic Advantage Hanson in 1:8 twist or 1:7 if you like higher BC bullet choices. I'd help you swap your barrel yourself.

There's got to be an AR enthusiast close by that would help you, or a shop that would do it, and a full float hand guard cheaper than a whole new upper.

assembling since the 80s. Its so simple a monkey can do it. that said you have to have parts that fit correctly.

Want the best accuracy get a barrel done by a top shop and a matched bolt. most problems solved then.

off the shelf barrels will always be a bit iffy, but as I"ve mentioned dang near any barrel these days can shoot MOA

as noted lots of people assemble them these days.

OTOH if you want it drive out.. WOA

Save your money for scoping up, ammo, etc., try a BCA Complete Upper, you WON'T be disappointed. BearCreek's a wholesaler, half the uppers out there, are mfgd by BCA. I have 2 Complete Uppers, in calibers that were supposed to give AR guys fits, .22lr and 7.62x39, nothing but 100% function out of the box, with bulk/cheap ammo. I'm about to purchase a third Upper from them, I don't even shop anywhere else, accuracy is equal/better than most Complete Uppers in the price range you're looking.

I would be one said monkeys...this holidays I decided to turn my box of spare parts into an upper. Got a White Oak barrel with headspaced bolt.


Prior to this I've been shooting the White Oak Precision offerings. But I'd say this White Oak Armament Wilson barrel shoots pretty good too.


I'm thinking of replacing the 4x scope with more magnification to see how it can really group.

Oh, my...........that some interesting, all encompassing information.

LOL

MM

I’m gonna dump my knights, LMt’s, BCM, geissele and centurion uppers for BCA..

They just as guuud.

I got 2 PSA chrome lined uppers left.. the 18” is pretty much a burn down rifle at this point. Nephews fed it a steady diet of rusky steel case during the trump years.

The others still ticking

I don't see anyone saying bcA is as good as the best. But moA satisfies most peoples needs. I certainly would not try to win Perry with a BCA. that said we have a fair amount of bca uppers so far and know of appx 10 others. not a one, other than the 22lr upper they replaced for me no issue, have had problems or shoot worse than 1.5 moa. all of ours shoot MOA or just a bit better but we reload so there is that part.

That was the first positive comment I’ve read about Bear Creek. I asked about them last year and got some interesting replies from folks.

Just use irons.

Shot in the rain with my Noveske, using irons.


Unless I'm mistaken, the OP wants to keep his A2 in the same "configuration". Yet a lot of you guys suggesting something totally different. Who here has experience with Windham barrels or uppers? You don't hear a lot about these guys anymore. Plus they are shutting down. Then we go to his next choices. I believe he gave those choices because they offer the same configuration he's interested in. The OP may have to clarify.

Mostly because they are cheap. And folks claimed they hired illegals... well they were vetted by a company and that ended up not being correct for some...

Anyway AR parts aren't hard to make. They shouldn't be expensive.

Yes all parts can matter but for the most part most all of the parts are fine these days unless you intend to go into extended battle with them.

for accuracy of course concentricity is important. Beyond that a bolt headspaced to a correctly chambered extension and barrel is where the accuracy is. most of the gun writers these days will tell you even cheap stuff like shaw barrels that used to be junk on bolt guns etc... are now almost all MOA capable.

if I were after something specific and demanded under moa a few things come into play. at what distance. With what bullet. are you reloading. Once you have that answered you can get further. IE moA isn't going to be done by ball ammo. Even reloaded for the most part. If I was after top notch I would call some folks that build them. Speak to them a bit about desires. This will lead you to what twist. What setup. how good of a barrel. When we shot competition our goal with the A2 iron sight uppers was testing ammo with a scope on the A2 that would give 10 shot groups at 300 yards of 1.5 inches hopefully less. 600 yards was 5 shot consistent groups of 2 to 3 inches and preferable better if possibly. That took just a bit more than a cheap barrel could give.

bca and spa are all about the same. I dont know any of the others but years ago model 1 sales used to be about the same. The barrels almost all shot moa give or take. Years ago they were not as reliable.

Bolt, and barrel as a pair are almost always the most important parts to accuracy. in the AR..

I've been buying a decent bit of BCA uppers. I mean none that I"ve shot yet have had any issue. They shoot pigs. deer. stay in the vehicles just in case. No failures. Granted I've not run thousands of rounds as fast as I can though them but I trust them in any encounter of 2 or 4 legged kind. How do they shoot at 500? no clue. They do zero and shoot fine for 100, generally around MOA give or take. 200 seems to be the same. Generally 200 yards 5 shot groups will come in around 2-3 inches with a simple 3x dot optics that we have on all of our rifles. I think its 3x. Its not much. again not with ball ammo.

What you need is very likely somewhere between bottom line bca/psa type stuff and Wilson/La Rue type stuff. If considering wilson/la Rue etc... I'd urge you to call White Oak and have a talk. I've never been steered wrong by them. And it could be a simple as a Wilson barrel from them and screw the nut onto a flat top upper with a float tube. Nothing fancy

irons will NEVER tell you what the best your gun can do will be. NEVER. But they can be close. so many less variables when shooting or testing with optics. We shot irons for a long time. We NEVER went to a match with a new gun and load unless it had been scope tested.

I shot the M-16 A2 configuration back in the day. I still like the looks, balance, etc. That’s all there is to my wanting to keep this rifle in that configuration. Just a cool reminder of what I shot back then.

It doesn't hurt that White Oak has some of the best actual service rifle shooters in the nation attached to it. Like National Champion shooters. Not just players...

They know the rifle platform very well.

Godogs57, I'm probably reading your OP wrong, but you want the same configuration as your A2, correct??? As far as the upper is concerned? I'll try not to badmouth BCA, as I have no experience with them. Rost has had some good luck with them, while a lot of others say they are garbage. Maybe they got burned a few times, I don't know. I know they are cheap, but if they work well, why not?? I'm still not exactly clear on what you are wanting though. Also, how much is the upper from Windham? I saw one the other day for $650.00, but it was for the whole dang rifle:


That one is an A2 A3, with removable carry handle. Is that what you are looking at? Rost hits on some good points about being able to use a scope, and with this one, you can do that easily, yet still maintain the look of the A2.

My experience with Windham and their barrels is very good. I have 3 of their 20" Varmint exterminator barrels, and they are tack drivers. They come with a matched bolt, so that is good. Also, good news that Windham is not shutting down, as we thought. They emailed me 2 days ago, saying they were not shutting down, but are under new management now.

Consider Rock River Arms (RRA).

Pick a cartridge and barrel length. If you want accuracy, here's their LAR-15m national match A4 upper in 223 Rem (1-8" twist). Has a free float tube. (Detachable carry handle /sight available as option, or they have an A2 national match configuration)

A4 NM upper
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=254

A2 NM upper
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=156

Their "standard" A4 flat top receiver upper has a 1-9" chrome moly hBAR 20" barrel, but no free float tube. Supposed to give 1 moa accuracy without float tube. Carry handle/sight is extra. You can install their free float tube with upgraded fore arm for ~$140 down the road if desired.
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=154

This 18" barrel

https://www.ballisticadvantage.com/...-length-ar-15-barrel-premium-series.html

I'd just go to PSA and get a nice midlength free floated upper with the barrel length of your liking. It will do all you need it to do.

I think you've been dipping into the kool aid.

Any AR maker worth their salt would run away from bca stuff due to poorly made and even worse QC because they would be ruining their reputation they've built by using [bleep] parts.

I"m still waiting to see all these [bleep] parts, non working, (yeah the first 22lr didn't but they sent another asap thats never missed a beat) and inaccurate stuff... at the moment we buy 2-3 uppers a year from them on average for us. And I test another 2 or so a year for others. While I wouldn't likely want to shoot long range competition with them as there I demand a lot of accuracy, why spend more when you dont' have to and most folks desires and abilities do well enough with BCA

I’ve got a BCA upper I bought 5 years ago this month from them. I put it on the first lower I ever built which was a PSA lower. I’ve never had an issue with it. I’m not going to say it will shoot MOA either though. I bought this rifle mainly to plink with and that’s what I do with it. I have a load using Win 748 and 55gr Hornady FMJ’s that will hold 1.5 MOA no problem.

Now my son bought a 7.62x39 pistol upper from PSA, that after the first few shots the screws holding the handguard on fell off. He called BCA they told him it was a known issue and sent him some up graded screws they said they use on their larger stuff. He put them in and not another issue and that was almost 4 years ago. Neither he or I have bought another BCA item, but I am not going to some fun of anyone that does either.

Enough already, ya'll convinced me; I'm gonna sell my KAC's & all my custom builds with top shelf barrels & replace them all with BCA's.
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But not in your lifetime or mine.............but I'm really glad all ya'll are happy with your BCA.

And no, not half the uppers sold are made by BCA, as no reputable company would ruin their name by doing that.

MM

I've replaced barrels by Ballistic Advantage one Hanson and one Classic and both shoot very well.
Why not try a new barrel or barrel & bolt?
Buying a cheap upper isn't anything but a crap shoot.

so who makes an accurate 18 inch pencil profile barrel? I am thinking of unscrewing a noveske 18 inch ss barrel and putting on a more accurate nitrided barrel.

Compass Lake Eng is no longer taking orders for uppers. I talked to Theresa on Monday to see if my order placed the first of December would be honored. She said since I stipulated a Bartlein barrel they could not honor my order since Bartlein will no longer warranty their barrels CLE no longer uses them. I changed my order to a Kreiger barrel and Theresa expects to ship the upper by the end of January. But they are not taking new orders. I was told there is a notice on Facebook to this effect. Too bad these were great people to work with and they provided a outstanding product.

While not a pencil barrel, I have been quite pleased with my Criterion CORE 18” barrel with rifle gas. It’s chrome lined and has a different tapered profile than most coming down to a .625 gas block. It shoots very smooth and is plenty accurate for my uses.

Well schidt, now I know I should have told my girlfriend to buy a BCA!!!!!! They just seem like the new BCM. Maybe even better?

Never too late...............go for it.

She love you long time.

LOL

MM

I’ve had it in the cart a few times at porters.. they haven’t been in stock in ages.

Would you say it feel similar in hand to say a 16” government profile barrel?? I like how 18” barrels with 14-15” handguards feel. Bipod in front of support hand doesn’t protrude muzzle device. With a 13” I’m smashing my bipod, or my bipods out in front of MD.

Any 10 shot groups with it? I got a pile of 10shot or 1.5moa chrome lined spouts. And a good few SS ones that do better

I don’t have any slim profile 18” barrels on hand to compare.. but an 18” rifle length barrel is usually a good handling/smooth shooting setup.

Build out would be BCM upper
Urx4 14.5” hand guard
Microbest chrome BCG
BCM gas block. Random gas tube

Optics is probably the hardest puzzle piece. Thinking ta110 acog with piggyback rmr. Maybe a 1.7badger comm, rzr hd 1-6.. offset rmr.

I actually have a 16” govt profile barrel and both with the same 15” MI rails. They do feel comparable.

I set the 18” gun up with a fixed 10x super chicken.

It shot okay with 77 grain SMK’s

Then I put a 1-4 Trijicon Accupower on it and shot it at 200 yards.

Then decided it was gonna be my night hunting gun. Put a Wraith mini 4K on it along with a battery pack and IR illuminator.

Been waiting on deer season to close and finding the time to go.

I’m probably gonna order another one and replace the govt profile 16” and use the 1-4 Trijicon for a day gun.

I did shoot this group at 100 but I believe I shot one round to the left, adjusted the scope too far and shot 2 more to the right, adjusted again and shot the remaining 6 or 7 rounds.

Oh, I bet...

I buy builder sets, uppers and lowers plus barrels and matching bolts for AR-15s and for the Armalite AR-10s, I do buy bolt and barrels but I do set up for the heaspace and throats myself. I do not buy 308 ARs made by anyone, do not lke the DPMS design or the bunch of half adz parts makers that go with them.

John Holliger built all my comp ARs back in the day before he even started WOP. I can’t say enough good things about his products. They took me from beginner to high master with me doing my part along the way.

BCA puts out some good stuff and good for your general use. With CNC machining these days, they are all close in overall quality.

If you have a good serviceable rifle, just rebarrel it and rock on. Many can do that for you and for not a lot of money.

Well, damnit, I was just at the range and a guy was shooting 2 different BCA uppers. Both chambered for 243 winchester. Both having issues. They were actually pretty accurate though. 5 shots into around 1 moa. But they both had extraction issues. Brass sticking in the chambers. He said he built them for yote hunting, but he's pretty pizzed at them because they are not reliable. Well, he was breaking in his new Bergara 243 bolt action, because he says he's giving up on the damn AR for a yote rifle. Can't really blame him. YMMV, I guess.

C'mon, Man say it ain't so...................I heard they were just as good as. And were cheap. too.

LOL

MM