Friends,

I was messing around in an AR shop yesterday and kinda went crazy. Yes, Milwaukie, Oregon has a dedicated AR shop and it's pretty amazing.

Anyway, I have my S&W M&P M-15TS with the H-1 Aimpoint for our bedroom gun. Loaded with 1-up and 29-down, that should be fantastic for things that go bump-bump-bump in the night.

But I got to thinking, while I was seeing boo-coo ARs in the gunshop, that the S&W is a super carbine ... 14�-inch barrel with a minimal pinned vortex hider. Perfect for criters in the house and such.

How about a RIFLE ... an AR with a slightly longer barrel, made of top-grade parts and intended ranges beyond those of the effectiveness of my S&W carbine w/Aimpoint???

Hmmmm.

So I kinda worked on a wish list, looking at parts and pieces and came up with the following rifle (which I will pick up in two hours). Please bear in mind I am greatly ignorant of AR nomenclature, so forgive any stupid names I might give stuff

Noveske Lower - Generation 2
Noveske NSR Rail
Black Hole Barrel w/ Polygonal Rifling, 3-groove, 18-inchs, 1-8" 5.56 chamber
Wilson Single Stage Trigger
BCM Gunfighter Charge Handle - Medium
Nickle Boron (NiB-X) Bolt Carrier Group
MagPul STR Buttstock

There was some more stuff and it is all of like quality ... NICE!!

Anyway, I had a blast finding cool and wonderful parts for my new AR-15 RIFLE.

I've got a few scopes left in my safe (that I haven't given to worthy kids) and either a Leupold 3.5-10X40 or a 4.5-14X40 would look good on my new rifle. Prolly with a LaRue LT-104 detatchable mount.

I DO BELIEVE this dawg will hunt.

God Bless,

Steve

My coyote calling rifle is similar in build, sporting a 20" bull barrel..... I have it Set it up with a 3.5-10x40 Leupold and have been very thrilled with it!

Steve,

You are getting crazy over this AR stuff!

I plan on getting my first in the next couple of weeks. My old buddies and I have a "Nanny Blast" every couple of years. 20 points for a head shot, 15 for neck and 10 for body. I plan on bringing a very accurate RRA to the hunt and doing some precision shooting. My plan is that if I see a herd of deer I might be able to get off a couple of accurate shots before they run off. I've won the compeition twice with my .264 but just looking for something a little different. Will probably order one in .223 though I am tempted by the 6.8.

Excellent. That is very good news, my friend.

I wanted to keep it kinda light, but still be a tad heavier than my carbine and with a few inches longer barrel. The rifle still won't be a heavyweight.

Just for [bleep] and giggles, I'm going to take a flier and try the Black Hole barrel with polygonal rifling. Locally, they have a fantastic reputation for being crazy accurate, a breeze to clean (no rifling edges at all) and FAST.

http://www.majorpandemic.com/2012/02/black-hole-weaponry-ltm-ar15-barrel.html


And if the Black Hole turns out to produce a turd (Steve made a little joke ), I'll throw a Krieger or some top-drawer barrel at it. No problem.

Whatever, it should be a blast

God Bless,

Steve

My friend,

Please don't tell anybody, but I've killed a few pickup loads of mule deer and not a few antelope with a .223. The 55-grain Hornady Spire Point simply kills them dead ... and quite often the bullets exit, for pity's sake.

The 5.56/.223 is a totally amazing cartridge. Incredibly accurate and it surely kills way out of it's league.

Please share your new rifle with us.

May God Bless You,

Steve

Steve
Keep us informed on the performance of the BHW barrel. I have a 16" on a Wilson upper that I have not shot yet but I hope to get it out in the next couple of days.

Oklahoma,

The shop is tiny, but it is dedicated to strictly ARs. The guys totally know what they are doing.

Curt, the owner, knowing I've popped off a about a million rounds in my long life, told me "Steve, given a good benchrest, a decent shooter and using benchrest techniques, you should easily get .50" to .70" five-shot groups out of BHW barrels. I love them and they NEVER come back to haunt me."

By the way, Curt will make a gun deal right, no matter what. If the BHW barrel is a turd, he will gladly trade me out of it ... full credit.

OK, I think I'll take him at his word.

When I got down there, the entire rifle was Noveske, except for the NiB-X bolt and the Gunslinger Charge Handle.

Actually, my new rifle is GORGEOUS

Here are some photos:



















[img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/dogzapper/ARSideView007.jpg[/img]


I'm drooling all over this almost-totally Noveske rifle of mine. The Wilson trigger is wonderful.

Anyway, I'm absolutely EXCITED.

God Bless,

Steve

That is a nice looking rifle! Looks like a Nanny Blast winner for sure!

That is an incredible set-up Steve....you done GOOD!!

Damn, I feel like I am a new bridegroom .... simply cannot keep my hands off this rifle.

Hey, LaRue has their OBR (which Curt had in stock!!), the Optimized Battle Rifle. And it is a really nice rifle, but not nearly what I'm stroking right now.


For an acronym-lover, maybe this is my Noveske SFR ... Serious F.....g Rifle. Yeah, I like that, my Noveske SFR.

Dang, I'm loving this rifle. I wonder if Karen would mind if I took it to bed with us tonight???

Blessings,

Steve

PS. These are the fanastic folks that helped me with my SFR: http://www.northwestfirearms.com/fi...count-shooters-supply-awesome-store.html

So did you get the BHW barrel or did he use a Noveske barrel?

Old friend of mine you have the fever

Black HOLE barrel, Wilson single-stage trigger, NiB-X bolt .... And the rest of the rifle is Noveske.

Black Hole is a local legend and I have seen them shoot beyond spooky-good. And if the BHW barrel craps out, Curt will trade me out of it at my cost.

Steve

Great looking setup, DZ. I have a Stag lower and a Timney trigger, that will eventually get mated to a Noveske 18" upper like yours. I'm thinking all-around hunting 5.56...

There's no rule that says a carbine-length AR can't also be a great scoped shooter. Here's one my newer toys, an R-15 carbine with a Leupy VX-3 3.5-10 X 50. Wouldn't shoot so great with the crappy trigger it came with, but it routinely shoots very tight groups since I dropped in Timney's AR trigger. It's now one of my favorite predator rifles.

Friend Tex,

The balance of my little S&W with the 14�-inch pencil barrel is superb for down-the-hall two-legged critter killing. I was a bit worried about the balance of this one ... adding 3�-inches and a considerably heavier barrel (the diameter at 18-inches is .740", so we're looking at about a four-contour tube).

Here are the precise stats: The rifle weighs exactly seven pounds, six ounces. The balance point is not at the front of the trigger guard, nor is it at the front of the magazine well ... it is right in the middle of the mag well. And by-damn, the balance feels PERFECT.

Add a Leupold 3.5-10X40, a LaRue LT-1-4 mount and a short-mag of twenty rounds ... We'll have a perfectly-balanced rifle that weighs slightly over eight and one-half pounds. The resultant rifle is heavy enough to be steady for long-range kills, yet light enough that I can hump a few miles with it.

Even better, I have not duplicated my hall sweeper; I have a dedicated short range carbine that handles like a whip AND this new Noveske-based rifle is an up-to-400-yards chopper.

All in all, this is not a bad combination of rifles.

God Bless,

Steve

Your rifle and mine sound a lot alike, although mine is a bit chubbier, but it balances well and I have shot a few coyotes out past 250 yards by merely placing my elbow on my knee... One running coyote that was hit so perfectly there had to have been another shooter, I was amazed. You will be pleased how that handles on the predator calling stands and over sand bags! To top it off, shes as sexy as can be!

In fact, I'd name her Tyra.... After Tyra Banks!

Steve, you had any luck with the Sierra 65 grain game king? That bullet over varget is simply amazingly accurate in my Colt 6720. I have 200 more being delivered this week, and want to shoot them at little 150-170 pound White tails in October. Thoughts??

I have a hankering for a new rifle, all my guns are 16 inch as well! I see they make an LTM with the 3 groove barrel.

Great looking rifle Steve. It looks all business. I really like the handguard. The 18"-20" rifles is where I find my fun. I bet you're really going to enjoy this one.

I like your choice on the optics too. Add a set of M1's to the scope and you'll be good to go.

Terry

I'll be waiting on a report on that barrel too. I have a Noveske 18" SPR, they kinda started the polygonal rifling in AR's and LaRue and now BHW use it too. Interesting, I know I like mine.

Did they mention what chamber it has in it? Noveske uses a chamber designed for 77gr SMK's or more specificly, Black Hills MK262 ammo.

I'm also curious on the new hand guard, this "system" is supposed to take over the picatinny attachment or at least "improve" it.

My Noveske SPR, lot of similarities...


You're hooked.

Mr. Dogzapper, I'm very interested in this question for you too. I have some of these loaded and intended for wolves in Idaho, but am considering also using it on deer in October out of my 16" M4 configuration.

As a follow up, I also loaded some 70gr Speer Semi-spitzers for the same purpose. They are both equally accurate. What do you think of these two choices for the 2 game animals I mentioned? Which would you (or any of you) choose? Thanks in advance.

68W

Hi, 68W,

As you know, I make absolutely no claims to being an AR expert.

Having said that, I've quite succesfully bonked mule deer and prairie goats with the .223. I used my Kimber M-84, quite possibly the most hand engraved and gold-inlayed rifle to leave Kimber of Oregon (serial number: "Steve's .223") to do so. After a lot of thought, I used the 55-grain Spire Point Hornady.

And, to be quite honest, I usually forgot I was shooting a .223 and simply held and shot at the critters like I was carrying my .280 Ackley. They all simply fell to the ground, most sincerely dead.

Just a personal thing, but I am not a Sierra fan on big game. The guys and gals at Sierra are wonderful and they make a fabulous target and varmint bullet, but I've had some problems with them on big game.

The Speer 70-grain would be excellent.

I'd also try the Winchester 64-grain Power Point ... Actually, today, this would be my absolutely first choice for deer and wolf choice in the .223/5.56. And my old standby, the Hornady 55-grain Spire Point, would be super, as well.

Good Luck; and please take a lot of photos of your kills, so you can share them with us.

God Bless,

Steve

Steve,

I have used the 60 grain Sierra flatbase on whitetails out of a short barreled youth rifle.

It usually exits on broadside lung shot deer and kills quickly. The wound channel looks like it came from 270 or something similar.

It has been pretty much the same as the 64 grain power point as far as I can tell.

Thank you for the courteous reply.On your recommendation then I will choose the 70gr Speers for my big game endeavors. Having a good deal of respect for your opinion I would like to follow your recommendation on the 64gr and experiment with more options but money is a concern and I have a good number of each of the aforementioned bullets loaded and ready. I did a quick google-fu action and saw that those Winchesters are factory loaded as well as available as a component. I don't have loading equipment of my own so hand-loading is an activity I do with a BIL very infrequently and usually under time constraints, so having the factory option is a good thing to tuck away in my head if/when I run out of these two "premium" loadings. I will zero in these Speers for the wolves and save the Sierras for coyotes and those two-legged predators. I still can't decide if I'm gonna hunt deer with the AR ("new school") or go with the '94 30-30 ("old school").

If I am blessed to have kills I will report. I expect the wolf to be a very challenging hunt. I am going to try and call them in...we'll see. I unfortunately cannot put as much time into hunting these past and coming years as I'd like to (medical students don't have time for much play) but any day hunting is a real boon for the mind and soul, success will just be bonus!

Thanks again Mr. Dogzapper,

68W

PS--I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this: I want to see that Kimber!

Fine rifle you bought there. Your S&W is going to feel lonely.

Steve, next I see a short barreled rifle (SBR) in your future.

Hi Steve I have had good luck with the 62 TSX but wanted to try the Sierra this year. Good luck with your rifle!

Dang, I haven't even shot the Noveske (if I may call it that) yet and I truly love the rifle. The Smith TS is fantastic in it's handiness, but the Noveske is a heavier rifle and more appropriate for killing at a distance.

And I love the tight fit of the Noveske. Everything is simply perfect about it. Even the battle sights (are they really worth an extra $225???) are totally cool and come up to the eye fantastically. Wait 'til the LaRue LT-104 scope mount comes and I can mount a Leupold 3.5-10X40 .... this puppy is gonna be perfect.

68W, the 70 Speer will work wonderfully for you. I truly wish I had some 64-grain Power Points hanging around; if I did, I'd surely send you a couple hundred for testing on deer and wolves.

Blessings,

Steve

"Even the battle sights (are they really worth an extra $225???) are totally cool and come up to the eye fantastically. Wait 'til the LaRue LT-104 scope mount comes and I can mount a Leupold 3.5-10X40 .... this puppy is gonna be perfect."

No, they're not but I seem to put them on every rifle I own. They are same plane apeture, which I prefer, they stay solidly in place and are one of the lowest folded sights out there but still, I gasp every time I plunk down the money for open sights...

Oh well, AR's is expensive.

And aren't they just absolutely GORGEOUS???

Like you, a cool AR simply would not be right without those beautiful sights gracing the receiver and picatinny rib. They are perfect.

The more I stroke that NSR Noveske rail, the more I'm starting to believe that is another "must have" too. The new Noveske rail just feels sooooo right, so light and so very perfect. Dang, I am so happy with this entire rifle.











Blessings to you, my friend,

Steve

I could not get the 64 grain power points to shoot that well over TAC or Varget. I have about 500 of them left...

Steve:

I had no idea that Noveske was in Grants Pass. It's great to be able to support a local company.

Logger

Very nice rifle!

I went as cheap as I possibly could and bought a CMMG Bargain Bin 16" flattop a year or two back, 623.00 shipped to my FFL. I didn't expect accuracy better than 2" but with 52gr Blitzkings it was easy to shoot .75"-1" five shot groups.

I have an Aero Precision matched upper and lower sitting in the safe to build a rifle more in line with your Noveske. The CMMG will get a flip up rear sight, and the 3x9 will be replaced with 1x4 or dot type sight and it will be used for what it was originally designed.

Anyhow, I read a lot of positive reviews on the 64gr Powerpoint so I bought a 100 with a bulk bullet order and I had terrible luck with the AR and my Stevens. I was not pleased because I wanted to hunt with the last year.

My daughter used the Stevens and a 69gr MK to take a doe at 50 yards or so, the bullet worked great.

The 69's shoot great in both rifles with 9T barrels.

Thank you for the reassurance. Its nice to have confidence when going into such a hunt for such a prized animal as the wolf. That is also a very kind gesture on the power points and I don't doubt that you mean it too. Take care and get that new AR out to the range!

I still want to see the ultra-custom Kimber you referred to!

68W

Logger,

I'm really, really a newby at this AR stuff, but apparently Noveske is exceedingly well thought of by the AR community.

Is Noveske the best AR? Heck, I don't know, but it is right up there. And in looking at several Noveske rifles and carbines, I'm pretty darned impressed by the quality.

I've also talked to several folks from the Grants Pass area and they all are incredibly impressed with John Noveske and the entire crew at their factory. They have one goal, to make the finest AR rife possible.

Like you, the fact that Noveske is made by Oregon folks makes things even better.

Anyway, Noveske is absolutely good enough for this kid.

Blessings,

Steve

I bought that same Rem. R-15 you have 2 years ago. Mine has a Leupold 3X9 on it & shoots 1/2" 5-shot MOA groups @ 100yds.
It's my Favorite coyote rifle here in North Texas.

BTW, either y'all got a hell of a lotta rain around San Antonio, or that's an old jpeg. We are dryer than a witch's tit here in northern TX...

dogzapper -

That rifle is VERY nice!

Thanks, my friend.

It was as nice as I knew how to buy. And I might have made a mistake or three. Maybe I'll change things downline, like the barrel or something. For now, however, it will truly suffice.

I truly LOVE it in every way.

Blessings,

Steve

Steve
When are we going to get a range report on the BHW??

Soon, my friend, soon.

We've had to clean up our home and do all kinds of crazy stuff the last couple of weeks. A friend of my wife's, a liberal Obama-lover, was coming for a visit to our home. The "lady" was the maid-of-honor at our wedding, over 48 years ago ... she and Karen are going to their 50th High School Reunion.

Also, a fellow 24HCF member has offered to send me a LaRue LT-104 mount to try and probably buy. When I have it, I can mount a 4.5-14 Leupold on that cool rifle and test it correctly.

Anyway, as soon as I can.

Interestingly, I'm hearing more and more good about the Black Hole Barrels and the AR folks & manufacturers who use them.

My totally objective shooting should sort out fact from fiction.

Blessings,

Steve

What are you planning to send down the tube?

Dave,

I have more than a few rounds of Winchester Supreme ammo with 55-grain Ballistic Silvertips. The lot I have is superbly accurate in every .223 I've ever shot and I suspect it will be pretty decent in the 5.56 chamber.

I loaded a few mags with the ammo and it clears, so it will probably function fine.

Anyway that's my plan.

I'll probably throw a few boxes of assorted Black Hills and Hornady ammo in the truck, too.

Anyway, my project is kinda hanging-fire until:

a) our "guest" leaves
b) the best of all possible scope mounts arrives
c) I get stuff cleaned up at our church (I have a LOT of ministries)
d) I get my energy up and actually make the long trip to the range and spend the time.

Be assured, I WILL post just as soon as I get some data.

Blessings,

Steve

Friends,

The wonderful LaRue mount came and I must say that I am very impressed. The construction is bulletproof, it's really light and it fits like no product I've ever seen.

Here are some photos:




















The Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14X40 fits perfectly and the eye relief simply could not be better.

Interestingly, I bore-sighted the rig and it is absolutely spot-on. I would not be surprised if it was very close to zeroed at 100 yards.

I love the rifle and hope you do, too.

Blessings,

Steve

I learned something.

In looking at my photos, the LaRue mount was mounted a couple of notches too far back and, as a result, the scope was not well supported by the rings.

Soooo, a little Torx Wrench work and this is way better:











Amazingly, after having mounted literally hundreds and hundreds of scopes, it was the photos that showed me my error. Of course, I'm relatively unfamiliar with the AR format, but I'm learning fast.

Blessings,

Steve

I was going to ask if the mount could go farther forward.It looks much better now.The only reason I noticed it is because my scope sits all the way forward in my temporary rings.I'm lusting for one of thoes mounts myself.

Now you're cooking!

That scope and mount combo look great. That is a sleek looking rig that just looks like it will be a killer! Be sure to let us know how she shoots.

Steve,

Great looking rig. I just picked up a Stiller lower yesterday, figuring I had better get an AR while I still can. Planning on a VLTOR upper, but after that, still putting it together in my head.

Kinda trying to build a 'tweener. Accurate enough for distant coyotes, but portable enough for cleaning house. #1 priority for me is rock solid reliability, after that, precision followed by handiness.

Thinking about a medium weight 16" barrel. I want a free floating forend, but not rifle length. Does anyone make a medium length free float forend with some picatinny, but not completely covered in it?

Probably just going to run an A2 buttstock.

Going to run a low powered variable, in the 1-4 range. I see lots of mounts and was wondering why I couldn't just run rings directly on the upper. What am I missing there?

Also thinking I'm going to go with a Geissle trigger.

Your thoughts?

John

Very nice rifle. I like the fore end....I think there are quite a few AR's coming out with something similar due to weight reduction and just smoother, user friendly style.

Like the Larue mounts also.

Friend John,

I'm really brand-new at this AR thing, but it sounds to me like you are going to have an excellent rifle. There's a world of fantastic advice on this forum, so I'm trying to keep quiet and keeping my ears open .... and I'm learning so, so much every day.

I took my Noveske out for her first little range session yesterday. I only had a very short time because I had lots of church duties. Below is the first "for record" group through my new Noveske with the Black Hole barrel. This group is undoubtedly an anomaly, but still ..........

God Bless You,

Steve

XXXX

Photo of target removed. I got a phone call from an old reader who doesn't believe that such accuracy is possible with an AR. So, down comes the target.

It was GOOD.

ST

Steve, you should have left it up! I posted my sub MOA 3 shot group from a cheap Colt 6720 wearing a Kahles 3.5x10x50 shooting 65 grain Game Kings. If you shot the group then leave it up! When I mentioned that I shot the group with the original Colt trigger, someone who has not posted groups from his new rifle and shall remain nameless pondered how much better I could have done with a fancy trigger, such is the nature of the interweb!

That 4.5 x 14 is beginning to get me jealous. I looking at John Burns rifle in Leupold rings mounted so far forward that it just had to be easy to pick up a view and pull the trigger. I was kind of getting bored but now am getting really interested again, maybe pick up another rifle, and put a new scope on it. I do love deer hunting with them now, lightweight, low recoil, not too loud compared to a short 308.

You are basically describing what is known in some parts of the military as the "Recce" M4. It's what was wanted until the Army got involved 10 years ago.

This is what became of that-



18in Douglas Stainless Match Barrel, rifle length free float forend, two stage match trigger, and a 2.5-8x36mm Leupold scope. Some use the NF 2.5-10x scope as well. The SPR/MK12 MOD 0 and MOD 1 are probably the killingest small arms in the military's inventory for the last decade. Using MK262 ammo (77gr SMK) they are unstoppable at 400 yards, usable to 600, and can be pushed out past 800 when necessary.

I had a bunch of time on those guns and thought them the pinnacle of the M16 family of weapons until I got behind the 16in Recce.



There is no "standard" for the Recce's. That was my first and the one I used the most usually with the same 2.5-8x scope or a 1-4x. The 16in hits the same targets with the same holds as the longer SPR yet is easier in buildings. One day I put a 13in handguard on a 14.5in M4 and it wasn't long before I mounted a scope and started shooting. Now my preference is a 14.5 inch with 12-14 inch forend, Geissele SSA-E, low powered variable 1-6x or 1-8x optic, and collapsable stock. Preferably with a suppressor..... grin


This is the SOPMOD Block II M4-



It has my Eotech and a borrowed magnifier on it. It is completely capable out to 600M on 12in plates with a different optic.



These days for duty, competition and personal use I prefer a 14.5in gun with a rifle length free float tube on it. The 14.5's with match ammo will hit the 600 yard targets with basically the same hold offs as the 18 and 16in guns, but are much easier to use in cramped spaces. The only reason I would go with a 16 in now is if someone didn't want to weld a muzzle device on a 14.5in.


Hondo,

One thing I absolutely must have, and you'll notice one all three of the rifles above is a rifle length forend. Not sure why you would want one shorter? I like them to come all the way up to the brake/flash hider with just enough room to clear a suppressor. That does a couple of things- mainly it lets you grip out further on the handguard to "drive" the gun with more control, it gives you room for an optic, BUIS, flashlight, and laser, and it ensures that when shooting on/around barricades and different rests that it is the forend touching and not the barrel.

Speaking of groups.... These are the only two groups I shot the other day to rezero with a new lot of ammo at 100m. The Green 16in from above was used.

1st group, 3 rounds-





and zeroed with the 2nd group, 5 rounds-




Of course to really snap the doubters I could mention that I was banging headshots at 400 meters and that the rifle hasn't seen a patch or been cleaned in over 3k rounds.........

I'll re-evaluate my choice of hand guard lengths. Up to this point, it was purely aesthetics. Thanks for the info. Can't bring myself to go with a 14" barrel, and won't be running a suppressor, so will probably stick with a 16" or 18" barrel.

Thanks for the intel.

John

I'll probably pizz off my ex-reader, but I will show one group ... the worst one.

I only had a very limited amount of time yesterday, so I took a single box of Winchester Supreme (black box) 55-grain ammo.

It took me five to get on target @100-yards (I'm getting old, feeble and addled), so I had 15 rounds left.

The first five-shot group was the best and it was fabulous. The second five-shot group was one-tenth of an inch larger, but still incredible.

This is my third group, which is the worst of the three. Given that, you can only imagine how good the first 5-shot group was. (Hint: half of this one)

I do believe that the Noveske with the Black Hole is going to be a shooter.







Not bad for an old fart.

God Bless,

Steve

Friend Hondo,

I'm loving my little "house cleaner" ... A S&W M&P AR-15 TS with it's cute little 14�-nch barrel and pinned vortex flash-hider. It is a wicked little [bleep], with it's Aimpoint H-1 and superb BUIS.

Blessings,

Steve

AR's don't shoot..... they are for spray and pray....... grin

I called Curt today and ordered a SFR!


ddj

My 18" Noveske SPR 3.5-10 Leupold

My 17" Krieger RECCE 3.5-10 Leupold (currently with an M1 elevation dial)

My 16" Noveske RECCE (1.5-5 Leupold which now belongs to a friend of mine)

Now I'm trying the longer hand guard thing and I like it but no critter pics yet... 2.5-8 Leupold 16" Colt pencil barrel

I prefer 16" barrells, especially for "spraying and praying"

Steve,

Who provides Black Hole with their barrel blanks? Looks like all parties concerned know what they are doing...

John

Friend John,

I have no idea who supplies BHW's barrel blanks.

Black Hole Weaponry is seemingly a local legend. The rifling is unusual; a three-grove polygonal ... no lands and grooves, just hills and valleys And you cannot believe how a patch whips through.

In theory, it kinda makes sense that the polygonal rifling would clean up like a darn and it should foul less ... or am I missing something???

http://blackholeweaponry.com/

As I stated, I've only fired three five-shot groups for record and all three were pretty remarkable; especially the first group which was basically one-hole with five lobes on it (a little under .300"!!!!!!!)

I just heard about Black Hole from our local tiny AR-15 shop and they love them. The price is VERY RIGHT and they SHOOT.

After firing just three groups, I can say that I am a bit impressed, as well. Of course, only time and sany, many groups will prove the barrel to me, but for now, I can say that after writing over one-hundred feature articles testing rifles, I've NEVER had one shoot it's first three consecutive groups so tight ... never.

God Bless,

Steve

What's he building for you, my friend?

By the way, Curt is probably 55 or so, kinda portly and totally knows his stuff. Two guys who work there are about the same age; they are calm, been there and done that. All, if you could meet them, would totally impress you ... not much talk, just fact.

When they build a rifle out of best parts, they take their time and build it as if it were there own. They LOVE this stuff and that is absolutely why they do it.

When Curt asked and I told him about how my Noveske/Black Hole was shooting, he wasn't surprised. I suspect had he been at the rifle range and seen me shoot three consecutive five-shot groups with an aggregate (average group size) of .38", it would have blown his socks off.

Curt and his friends are the real deal. Tiny, tiny shop and fantastic, caring AR-15 men.

PLEASE let us know the exact prescription he's building for you.

God Bless,

Steve

I drove by that shop the other day but didn't have time to stop in. Have to do that next weekend for sure; sounds like a neat place.

Yep, tiny doesn't even describe it Beside a "We buy GOLD and Platinum" joint and an RV Repair shop.

My little jewelry store started just like that. My shop was so small that I had to go outside to change my mind

My friend, you will enjoy youe visit. Be sure to take your Visa and/or your checkbook.

Blessings,

Steve

Steve my friend,

I called Curt and told him I was looking for a Pre Election AR that I could use for hunting situations. I think his recommendation was almost exactly your gun. I did mention Cerakoting some of the pieces in Patriot Brown. He is emailing the exact specs. I'll let you know when he emails me.

Thanks,

ddj

COOL,

He offered Cerecoating on mine, as well, but I was so anxious to get it that I said "No, but thanks."

So, I have no idea how long it takes, nor what the charges are.

To say I am happy with my rifle would be a gross understatement. It is superb.

I cannot wait to hear what Curt e-mails. You are going to LOVE it, my friend.

Steve

I emailed Andy Baker from Black Hole and was here is is his response:

"Everything that we do is in house. We get the steel in 12 foot lengths and cut it to order. Then we drill, ream, and rifle each piece of raw stock. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Thanks."

Seems like it's working for them. I think I'm going to give them a try for my AR. I wonder if they'll do standard barrels in addition to AR barrels...

John

I'd guess YES.

The polygonal rifling fascinates me. And, from my extensive trial of a whole three five-shot groups they apparently are super accurate.

By the way, the barrelmaker's art starts with perfectly deep-hole drilling and then gun-boring the bore. I did an article on barrels several years ago and interviewed literally every GREAT barrelmaker. The great ones did their own deep-hole drilling and gun-boring.

Black Hole Weaponry has a fabulous reputation here in the Portland area.

I gave them a try, as per Curt's (local AR shop) suggestion and I'm delighted.

Please keep us up to speed on everything you find out.

God Bless,

Steve


Below is a photo Noveske sent me today:




I about pissed my pants with laughter.

That kid's way smarter than most voters...

I'm with you on the polygonal. I sure don't see any disadvantage to it. I need to have a polygonal guilt edged PPC chambered up and see how it would do in comparison to conventional rifling...

John

Friend John,

I can see why the polygonal would clean up like a whiz, too. And the three-groove makes sense; lotsa sense.

I was shooting Winchester Supreme (Black Box) 55-grain Ballistic Silvertips. After the twenty rounds, I ran a wet patch through my barrel and got a little black. And, in having driven a few million patches in my very long life, the barrel felt incredibly smoooooth ... actually smoother than I've ever felt.

I do believe that we are onto something, my friend.

Steve

I have emailed him as well, I am looking for a lighter barrel but want to talk to him.

Curt is a good guy. Talk to him.

Curt seems to be First Class. I can see why he and Steve get along well.


ddj

Here are the build details for Special order SFR AR:

Noveske Gen 2 lower
Wilson single stage trigger
Noveske NSR rail
Ni Bix bolt
BCM charge handle
Rainier Arms brake
Magpul STR stock black
H buffer
Magpul + grip black
Upper, lower and rail coat in Patriot Brown

Thanks for the help Steve!


ddj

Curt also suggested I go with the Black Hole 18" barrel.


ddj

ddj,

That is precisely the rifle I had him build for me, except for the Patriot Brown sections. Dang, that will be a spectacular rifle, my friend.

Yours, with the brown, will be way classier than mine.

And I'll bet it will be an unbelievable SHOOTER!!!!!

Steve

Curt must know what works!

ddj

My simple Daniel Defense M4V7 5.56 with a Burris 2-7X FF-II and Geiselle SSA trigger is a <1" rifle.

I have the same upper with a pencil barrel and and LMT lower

jimmyp, EDM, Have yall shot any 64 gr pp or 62gr tsx out of those Daniels? Thx

Sadly no, the DD upper has a T1, my noveske and colt have scopes, still accurate
Loads with the TSX are easy

Not yet. Been shooing the 75 gr Hornady's. Karnis just sent me a load of bullets to try that include the 64 gr PP. Maybe this weekend.

Outstanding!

RDW. What bullet load was that?

fats, the WW 64 grain powerpoint is harder for me to get to shoot than the 65 grain sierra game king, the TSX is pretty easy load to mag length over TAC or Varget. I am leaning to more case filling powders these days like Varget, but TAC makes a nice load with new cases and good neck tension.