Seeing all of the posts about AR platform pistols and pandemic builds convinced me that I needed an AR15 pistol. Not being as technically savvy as most of you, I decided to start with an entire gun rather than going the pieces-parts route. I settled on a Springfield Armory Saint Victor (“Saint Victor?”) pistol in 300 AAC Blackout. I ordered it online (none in stock) and got it from Sportsman’s Warehouse a week later. I topped it with a Sig Romeo5 1X 2MOA RDS that I had on the shelf. MontanaMarine asked for a review, so here is my pandemic write-up.
The gun’s purpose is for dinking around in the woods on foot and on a UTV. I picked the Blackout because it meets the requirements for hunting all big game in Wyoming except grizzlies, while the .223 does not. I do not intend to hunt with it, but I may be carrying it for general purposes during open seasons or for varmints.
The gun itself is a cool little package with a 9 inch barrel. I had not comprehended from all of the code-speak in the ads that the brace on this gun is not collapsible. (There now is one with a collapsible brace on Springfield’s website.) Oh well, not really a big deal given the overall compactness of the gun. The gun, with the optic, a bungee single point sling, and an empty 30 round Pmag, weighs 6 pounds, 9.3 ounces on my postal scale. That is slightly heavier than my .308 700 Ti, but it is more compact. D&H sells a 10 round magazine, and I intend to try some of those to reduce the bulk.
After multiple range trips to get things squared away, here are my experiences, not in chronological order.
Doing my civic duty by social distancing a couple of days ago:
Velocity and Functioning
I’ll start with the data so you can drop off when you get bored.
I have chronograph results for a number of factory cartridges if anyone is interested. (Obtaining ammo is another story.) All results were obtained using a Labradar chronograph at 6000 feet, low humidity.
Remington UMC green box 120 grain OTFB (advertised at 2115 fps)
Average 1932, high 1960, low 1905, ES 54, SD 25.4 (5 shots)
Aguila 150 grain FMJ (advertised at 1900 fps)
Average 1773, high 1807, low 1752, ES 55, SD 17.4 (5 shots)
Does not lock bolt back after last shot.
stelTH (not a typo) 220 grain subsonic by Ammo Inc. (?) (advertised at 1016 fps)-Not suppressed.
Average 967, high 984, low 940, ES 43, SD 15.9 (7 shots)
Does not lock bolt back after last shot.
Barnes VOR-TX 110 grain TAC-TX FB (advertised at 2350 fps) (Lucky to find those on the shelf. My son, unbenknownst to me, surprised me by searching every shop in town and found them.)
Average 2209, high 2230, low 2195, ES 35, SD 12.9 (5 shots)
This round is hot. It has a bit of a crack to it when it goes off. Consistent ejection, but ejector marks on brass. The primers look OK. See photo.
Handloads
Handloads were a different issue. I used Nosler 125 grain ballistic tips using NMScout308’s formulas from this thread (W296, 2.060 OAL), that mirrors Nosler’s online information, except that I used CCI 400 primers and Starline new brass. I got multiple malfunctions at 16, 16.5 and 17.0 grains of W296 that got progressively worse as I stepped up. Although ejection consistently was good, it started with some short strokes (empty chamber) and ended up with short strokes every shot. I also had a couple where the round was half-way out of the magazine and the bolt hit it. Velocities were in the same general range as NMScout308’s. I was concerned that I was overloaded, so I stopped without shooting the 17.5 grain loads. I went back home and lowered the charge to 15.5, and retested, and it still short-stroked and then did not lock back the bolt after the last round.
I did realize afterwards, though, that when I once looked at the 300BLK Pmag magazine with rounds in it, some of the handloaded rounds were pushed forward in the magazine. Almost all of the factory rounds tested take up most of the space in the magazine box (the Barnes leaving very little extra room), while the Noslers were loaded to 2.060” and had a huge gap between the front of the cartridge and the front magazine wall.. I have concluded, and will retest, that the rounds need to be loaded to a much longer length. I also concluded that I was not driving them too hard, nor is there a gas issue.
Accuracy
Today, my goal was to chrono and zero the gun for the newly acquired Barnes Vor-TX ammo. The chrono group at 50 yards are my first shots with the ammo that were taken before I zeroed it. I don’t shoot for groups when running the chrono.
There was some wind, so I moved to a 100 yard range that is protected by side berms. It took 3 sets of two shots to get the Barnes rounds where I wanted them.
I don’t shoot as well as many of you. Oh well. Keeping things in perspective, here is what the combination of chrono and sight-in rounds look like on the USPSA target that I had behind those targets.
I then decided to run the other factory rounds and 2 leftover 15.5 grain Nosler handloads through the gun at 100 yards, using the Barnes zero. The 150 grain Aguilas were consistent with the Barnes vertically about ¾ inch apart but 5 inches low. The bolt locked back after the last shot, which could have been luck or the gun loosening up. The 220 stelTH were consistent with the Barnes vertically about an inch and a half apart but about 12-1/2 inches low. The bolt did not lock back. The Remingtons and Noslers went right and strung out vertically. That’s on me. I then threw a Barnes round on that target, which was 2 inches high of the bullsye, and another in the A zone (extreme upper left corner) of the head of a USPSA target.
(Not shown: stelTH in D zone of USPSA target and Barnes head shot)
You folks would probably do better, so don’t hold that against the gun.
Conclusion
Aside from my freak out over the handloaded Nosler rounds, which I will fix in relatively short order, I am satisfied with the gun. It is not my Ti, but it's a small gun with a consumer grade RDS. When I luck into a day with very little wind, I will try it at 200. The ballistics on the Barnes round at 2200 fps should do anything I would need the gun to do, and the Aguilas were surprisingly good. I have a bunch of Hornady 150 grain Interlocks gathering dust on the shelf that may get a tryout.
I hope I have not bored you. Take care.
The gun’s purpose is for dinking around in the woods on foot and on a UTV. I picked the Blackout because it meets the requirements for hunting all big game in Wyoming except grizzlies, while the .223 does not. I do not intend to hunt with it, but I may be carrying it for general purposes during open seasons or for varmints.
The gun itself is a cool little package with a 9 inch barrel. I had not comprehended from all of the code-speak in the ads that the brace on this gun is not collapsible. (There now is one with a collapsible brace on Springfield’s website.) Oh well, not really a big deal given the overall compactness of the gun. The gun, with the optic, a bungee single point sling, and an empty 30 round Pmag, weighs 6 pounds, 9.3 ounces on my postal scale. That is slightly heavier than my .308 700 Ti, but it is more compact. D&H sells a 10 round magazine, and I intend to try some of those to reduce the bulk.
After multiple range trips to get things squared away, here are my experiences, not in chronological order.
Doing my civic duty by social distancing a couple of days ago:
Velocity and Functioning
I’ll start with the data so you can drop off when you get bored.
I have chronograph results for a number of factory cartridges if anyone is interested. (Obtaining ammo is another story.) All results were obtained using a Labradar chronograph at 6000 feet, low humidity.
Remington UMC green box 120 grain OTFB (advertised at 2115 fps)
Average 1932, high 1960, low 1905, ES 54, SD 25.4 (5 shots)
Aguila 150 grain FMJ (advertised at 1900 fps)
Average 1773, high 1807, low 1752, ES 55, SD 17.4 (5 shots)
Does not lock bolt back after last shot.
stelTH (not a typo) 220 grain subsonic by Ammo Inc. (?) (advertised at 1016 fps)-Not suppressed.
Average 967, high 984, low 940, ES 43, SD 15.9 (7 shots)
Does not lock bolt back after last shot.
Barnes VOR-TX 110 grain TAC-TX FB (advertised at 2350 fps) (Lucky to find those on the shelf. My son, unbenknownst to me, surprised me by searching every shop in town and found them.)
Average 2209, high 2230, low 2195, ES 35, SD 12.9 (5 shots)
This round is hot. It has a bit of a crack to it when it goes off. Consistent ejection, but ejector marks on brass. The primers look OK. See photo.
Handloads
Handloads were a different issue. I used Nosler 125 grain ballistic tips using NMScout308’s formulas from this thread (W296, 2.060 OAL), that mirrors Nosler’s online information, except that I used CCI 400 primers and Starline new brass. I got multiple malfunctions at 16, 16.5 and 17.0 grains of W296 that got progressively worse as I stepped up. Although ejection consistently was good, it started with some short strokes (empty chamber) and ended up with short strokes every shot. I also had a couple where the round was half-way out of the magazine and the bolt hit it. Velocities were in the same general range as NMScout308’s. I was concerned that I was overloaded, so I stopped without shooting the 17.5 grain loads. I went back home and lowered the charge to 15.5, and retested, and it still short-stroked and then did not lock back the bolt after the last round.
I did realize afterwards, though, that when I once looked at the 300BLK Pmag magazine with rounds in it, some of the handloaded rounds were pushed forward in the magazine. Almost all of the factory rounds tested take up most of the space in the magazine box (the Barnes leaving very little extra room), while the Noslers were loaded to 2.060” and had a huge gap between the front of the cartridge and the front magazine wall.. I have concluded, and will retest, that the rounds need to be loaded to a much longer length. I also concluded that I was not driving them too hard, nor is there a gas issue.
Accuracy
Today, my goal was to chrono and zero the gun for the newly acquired Barnes Vor-TX ammo. The chrono group at 50 yards are my first shots with the ammo that were taken before I zeroed it. I don’t shoot for groups when running the chrono.
There was some wind, so I moved to a 100 yard range that is protected by side berms. It took 3 sets of two shots to get the Barnes rounds where I wanted them.
I don’t shoot as well as many of you. Oh well. Keeping things in perspective, here is what the combination of chrono and sight-in rounds look like on the USPSA target that I had behind those targets.
I then decided to run the other factory rounds and 2 leftover 15.5 grain Nosler handloads through the gun at 100 yards, using the Barnes zero. The 150 grain Aguilas were consistent with the Barnes vertically about ¾ inch apart but 5 inches low. The bolt locked back after the last shot, which could have been luck or the gun loosening up. The 220 stelTH were consistent with the Barnes vertically about an inch and a half apart but about 12-1/2 inches low. The bolt did not lock back. The Remingtons and Noslers went right and strung out vertically. That’s on me. I then threw a Barnes round on that target, which was 2 inches high of the bullsye, and another in the A zone (extreme upper left corner) of the head of a USPSA target.
(Not shown: stelTH in D zone of USPSA target and Barnes head shot)
You folks would probably do better, so don’t hold that against the gun.
Conclusion
Aside from my freak out over the handloaded Nosler rounds, which I will fix in relatively short order, I am satisfied with the gun. It is not my Ti, but it's a small gun with a consumer grade RDS. When I luck into a day with very little wind, I will try it at 200. The ballistics on the Barnes round at 2200 fps should do anything I would need the gun to do, and the Aguilas were surprisingly good. I have a bunch of Hornady 150 grain Interlocks gathering dust on the shelf that may get a tryout.
I hope I have not bored you. Take care.