Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Springfield Armory Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout

Seeing all of the posts about AR platform pistols and pandemic builds convinced me that I needed an AR15 pistol. Not being as technically savvy as most of you, I decided to start with an entire gun rather than going the pieces-parts route. I settled on a Springfield Armory Saint Victor (“Saint Victor?”) pistol in 300 AAC Blackout. I ordered it online (none in stock) and got it from Sportsman’s Warehouse a week later. I topped it with a Sig Romeo5 1X 2MOA RDS that I had on the shelf. MontanaMarine asked for a review, so here is my pandemic write-up.

The gun’s purpose is for dinking around in the woods on foot and on a UTV. I picked the Blackout because it meets the requirements for hunting all big game in Wyoming except grizzlies, while the .223 does not. I do not intend to hunt with it, but I may be carrying it for general purposes during open seasons or for varmints.

The gun itself is a cool little package with a 9 inch barrel. I had not comprehended from all of the code-speak in the ads that the brace on this gun is not collapsible. (There now is one with a collapsible brace on Springfield’s website.) Oh well, not really a big deal given the overall compactness of the gun. The gun, with the optic, a bungee single point sling, and an empty 30 round Pmag, weighs 6 pounds, 9.3 ounces on my postal scale. That is slightly heavier than my .308 700 Ti, but it is more compact. D&H sells a 10 round magazine, and I intend to try some of those to reduce the bulk.



After multiple range trips to get things squared away, here are my experiences, not in chronological order.

Doing my civic duty by social distancing a couple of days ago:



Velocity and Functioning

I’ll start with the data so you can drop off when you get bored.

I have chronograph results for a number of factory cartridges if anyone is interested. (Obtaining ammo is another story.) All results were obtained using a Labradar chronograph at 6000 feet, low humidity.

Remington UMC green box 120 grain OTFB (advertised at 2115 fps)
Average 1932, high 1960, low 1905, ES 54, SD 25.4 (5 shots)

Aguila 150 grain FMJ (advertised at 1900 fps)
Average 1773, high 1807, low 1752, ES 55, SD 17.4 (5 shots)
Does not lock bolt back after last shot.

stelTH (not a typo) 220 grain subsonic by Ammo Inc. (?) (advertised at 1016 fps)-Not suppressed.
Average 967, high 984, low 940, ES 43, SD 15.9 (7 shots)
Does not lock bolt back after last shot.

Barnes VOR-TX 110 grain TAC-TX FB (advertised at 2350 fps) (Lucky to find those on the shelf. My son, unbenknownst to me, surprised me by searching every shop in town and found them.)
Average 2209, high 2230, low 2195, ES 35, SD 12.9 (5 shots)
This round is hot. It has a bit of a crack to it when it goes off. Consistent ejection, but ejector marks on brass. The primers look OK. See photo.



Handloads

Handloads were a different issue. I used Nosler 125 grain ballistic tips using NMScout308’s formulas from this thread (W296, 2.060 OAL), that mirrors Nosler’s online information, except that I used CCI 400 primers and Starline new brass. I got multiple malfunctions at 16, 16.5 and 17.0 grains of W296 that got progressively worse as I stepped up. Although ejection consistently was good, it started with some short strokes (empty chamber) and ended up with short strokes every shot. I also had a couple where the round was half-way out of the magazine and the bolt hit it. Velocities were in the same general range as NMScout308’s. I was concerned that I was overloaded, so I stopped without shooting the 17.5 grain loads. I went back home and lowered the charge to 15.5, and retested, and it still short-stroked and then did not lock back the bolt after the last round.

I did realize afterwards, though, that when I once looked at the 300BLK Pmag magazine with rounds in it, some of the handloaded rounds were pushed forward in the magazine. Almost all of the factory rounds tested take up most of the space in the magazine box (the Barnes leaving very little extra room), while the Noslers were loaded to 2.060” and had a huge gap between the front of the cartridge and the front magazine wall.. I have concluded, and will retest, that the rounds need to be loaded to a much longer length. I also concluded that I was not driving them too hard, nor is there a gas issue.

Accuracy

Today, my goal was to chrono and zero the gun for the newly acquired Barnes Vor-TX ammo. The chrono group at 50 yards are my first shots with the ammo that were taken before I zeroed it. I don’t shoot for groups when running the chrono.



There was some wind, so I moved to a 100 yard range that is protected by side berms. It took 3 sets of two shots to get the Barnes rounds where I wanted them.



I don’t shoot as well as many of you. Oh well. Keeping things in perspective, here is what the combination of chrono and sight-in rounds look like on the USPSA target that I had behind those targets.



I then decided to run the other factory rounds and 2 leftover 15.5 grain Nosler handloads through the gun at 100 yards, using the Barnes zero. The 150 grain Aguilas were consistent with the Barnes vertically about ¾ inch apart but 5 inches low. The bolt locked back after the last shot, which could have been luck or the gun loosening up. The 220 stelTH were consistent with the Barnes vertically about an inch and a half apart but about 12-1/2 inches low. The bolt did not lock back. The Remingtons and Noslers went right and strung out vertically. That’s on me. I then threw a Barnes round on that target, which was 2 inches high of the bullsye, and another in the A zone (extreme upper left corner) of the head of a USPSA target.


(Not shown: stelTH in D zone of USPSA target and Barnes head shot)

You folks would probably do better, so don’t hold that against the gun.

Conclusion

Aside from my freak out over the handloaded Nosler rounds, which I will fix in relatively short order, I am satisfied with the gun. It is not my Ti, but it's a small gun with a consumer grade RDS. When I luck into a day with very little wind, I will try it at 200. The ballistics on the Barnes round at 2200 fps should do anything I would need the gun to do, and the Aguilas were surprisingly good. I have a bunch of Hornady 150 grain Interlocks gathering dust on the shelf that may get a tryout.

I hope I have not bored you. Take care.

That's good shooting with a tiny gun.
Thank you for the write-up. Very informative!

Looks like a nice little rig, thanks for sharing.

Now that I have my feet wet, I can see the attraction of buying some cheap receivers and building my own. It's like LEGOs for gun people.

Yeah once you start, it can become kind of habit forming.....grin

I've got a 10.5" in 7.62x39, it does around 2150 fps with typical 123gr steel case stuff.

Cheyenne—I enjoyed your write up. Does your Victor have an adjustable gas block? I bought a Saint pistol in 300 Blackout when they first became available. Springfield advertised it as having an adjustable gas block. They even included an Allen key to adjust it. In the owners manual, it showed the Three different adjustment screws for the gas block, one of which was non adjustable. That is what was in my gas block. They didn’t include any of the adjustable screws. Mine will not lock back, on an empty mag, shooting different factory subsonic loads. This is when I discovered the lack of adjustment screws. I figured a call to Springfield would sort it out. They simply said that to use subsonic in it, I would have to suppress it. I thought that is what their “adjustable” gas block was there for. I’m pretty disappointed in their “customer service”. Sorry to run on with my question.

Sorry about the delay in replying, smike308. It does claim to have an adjustable gas block. My owner's manual also referenced 3 possible types of screws, Mode 1, Mode 2 and Mode 3. It says that some models do not come with a Mode 2 screw. The manual has pictures of all three types. Mode 1 is the solid set screw that is factory installed and is non-adjustable. Mode 2 looks like Mode 1, but is said to be a metering jet screw. It says that it is not recommended for suppressor usage. They apparently have different sized Mode 2 screws and they are color coded. Mode 3 is an adjustable metering screw. My gun came with the wrench and what clearly corresponds to the picture of the Mode 3 screw. I am attaching a picture.



In the ammunition section of the manual, is says: "The SAINT is designed to reliably function with subsonic ammunition when a sound suppressor is attached. Firing subsonic ammunition without a sound suppressor may not reliably function in the SAINT." (Bad grammar in the second sentence, BTW.)

I would think that they would send you a Mode 3 screw to try to figure it out.

Cheyenne— Thanks for getting back to me. Maybe another call to Springfield will get me a more cooperative and sympathetic customer service rep. Good luck with yours

Currently building a clone of the Olympic K23B Stubby.
7.5" flattop A2 front with .72 post, free float knurled and vented. A3 carry handle and SB3 adjustable brace, Magpul grip and in 300BLK.

Update. As I suspected, cartridge overall length was the contributing problem to the issues that I was having with the 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip handloads in the gun. In an effort to retest, while conserving scarce and expensive components, I loaded up 10 rounds with the same components (Winchester 296, CCI 400, new Starline brass) in 2 round charge increments, starting at 15.5 grains, and increasing in 0.5 grain increments to 17.5 grains of W296. I seated the ballistic tips at a C.O.L. of 2.155”, which approximately corresponded to the C.O.L. of the 120 grain Remington OTHP and the Aguila 150 grain FMJ factory ammo discussed in my first post.

I also introduced a new variable, some 10 round D&H 300 Blackout magazines that I purchased from Brownells. The last round is very difficult to get into the magazine. It took 2 tries starting with the bolt locked back and using the bolt release to get the first round chambered with the ballistic tips. After that, every round chambered and fired without any issues. The velocities were about a half a grain of powder behind the velocities I got with the bullets seated to 2.060”. At 17.5 grains, I got 2034 and 2049. That’s good enough for me.

I also had purchased some Sierra 110 grain hollow point varmint bullets. These are really short bullets! Given the trouble that I had with the Noslers, I feared that I would never be able to seat them long enough to get them to work in the gun. I could only seat them out to 1.990”, and there is less bullet in the case than I usually like to have. This seating depth allowed me to seat the round without having to make any adjustment to the seating stem as adjusted for the Noslers. I only loaded 10 of these, starting at 18.2 and going up to 20.6 of W296 in 0.6 grain increasing increments, 2 rounds each. I used another new D&H 10 round magazine. The first round chambered fine using the bolt release, and all rounds fired and functioned with no trouble. At 19.4, I got velocities of 2213 and 2225, with the ejected cases touching each other on the ground. At 20, I got 2253 and 2222, with the cases very close to each other. At 20.6, I got 2301 and 2297, with the cases landing about 2-3 feet apart from each other and one case showing an ejector mark. The 19.4 velocity is about the same as the Barnes VOR-TX, so I probably will stick with that.

Given the cost, I debated about whether to function test some Barnes VOR-TX in another D&H 10 rounder. I only had 9 left in the magazine after using one round to check the chronograph earlier. The first round chambered fine, and I fired 4 with no issues. I pulled the magazine out and was deciding whether to send another $8 downrange, and then decided that I had to know and put it back in the gun. After the already chambered round fired, the next shot was a click on an empty chamber. I am really going to have to be careful about seating these magazines!

Interestingly, accuracy at 50 yards using 2 different bullet types and 10 different powder charges was pretty consistent. After I shot the Noslers, I taped up the holes and then shot with the Sierras. The groups overlapped. The Barnes VOR-TX group remained excellent and consistent with what I saw the last time out.

Given that the Sierras are much cheaper than the ballistic tips, I probably will experiment with them for a while. They should be good for plinking, varmints or self-defense. They do not meet the Wyoming requirements for a big game cartridge because the C.O.L. is under 2 inches.

For supersonic loads I have liked Lil'Gun under 125gr Noslers. I also load them to mag length(2.25") in standard pmags, and have had no function troubles with a CMMG, nor a Daniel. Those were both 16" barrels - the gas block will probably have to be adjusted for a pistol barrel, obviously.

Thanks, tex_n_cal. That's good to know if I need to make further adjustments to COL.

I have a question for the collective brain trust. Everything is running fine now with the handloads. The only issue I am experiencing is what I consider to be difficult extraction of a chambered live round if I decide to unload the gun. It takes a great deal of force to open the action. This occurs with factory ammo and handloads. I am not accustomed to this with 5.56/.223 AR15s.

I have an overall length gauge, and it would be almost impossible to seat bullets sufficiently long to hit the lands of this gun. That is not the issue. I check all of my handloads with a Wilson case gauge, and I am not seeing a problem there. I am hoping that this is a break-in issue but have concerns.

I would appreciate any input. Thanks.

Is it only your handloads where you experience extraction issues? As I recall starline brass tends to be a bit thick in the neck. Compare the OD of your handloads and the various factory loads you have.

Also, I'm wondering if you have a bit of a tight chamber, or at least a tight neck. Tight necks are good for accuarcy, but can induce conditions expecially with thick necked brass such as you describe.

I see you overall velocities attained with the 125g NBT and W296 are about right for SAAMI pressures, but you got there will less powder than I would of expected.

Somebody mentioned Lil'Gun.
That's another real possibility:

Sharpie up your live round and see if there are any strange markings when you extract/eject.

Is this happening on full mags or does this happen regardless of the amount of rounds in the mag?

Good write up. Sounds like a fun gun. I built my .300 BO and I'll never be without one.

I had thought that I replied to this yesterday, but something evidently got goofed up. Thank you for your replies, antelope_sniper. You may have hit upon the issue. This has happened with handloads and factory loads, although I cannot recollect which factory loads. I went and put the calipers to my handloads and all factory loads I have. Both kinds easily fall under the SAAMI spec .334" neck width. What I did notice with my handloads and some factory loads is that, if I place the calipers below the mouth and move it upwards to the mouth, there is a slight snag right at the mouth. Also, the Barnes rounds are the most tapered (the bullets have a cannelure), and I can recall that it was less difficult to remove a chamber round the last time I unloaded the gun with those rounds in it. So, I probably will have to adjust my crimp die just enough to remove the snag without putting any crimp on the bullet (no cannelures on mine). I am not looking forward to it, because the only die set I could find was an RCBS set with the combination seat/crimp die.

If it does work, it could mean that the chamber is a bit tight.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the reply, deflave. That is a good idea, and I will do that next time out. I had looked in the chamber and had not noted any obvious burrs, but the Sharpie test would be better.

I don't recall attempting to unchamber with a substantially full magazine. I haven't loaded the Pmags to capacity yet, and the one 10 rounder with which this has happened only had 4 rounds left when it occurred.

It is a fun gun! It lets me carry something very light and maneuverable for dinking around in the woods and snow that still meets big game firearm requirements for targets of opportunity that I am not actively hunting. Loaded with the Sierra 110s, it may replace the Colt 6920 under the bed.

Well, it does not appear to be the ammo. I loaded up some dummy rounds and stole my wife's Sharpie. Here are pictures of two different rounds. There were up to 6 marks on one nearest the extractor groove and 4 nearest the shoulder. I could only get the light and camera to view and photograph a part of the chamber. Guessing that the long scratch is from the ramp, the issue with the mark near the shoulder is from the bottom of the chamber that I can't see. I also attached two photos of the chamber, which shows the top of the chamber. I thought I could see a dot farther down on top, so I took another picture. Thanks for all of your help. Any other comments are welcome. I am not looking forward parting with the gun during bear season, with a marauding black bear tearing up bird feeders (no, we don't do that) and b&e one car near the cabin, but I probably can think of something.

I went back and looked at all of my fired brass and did not see anything remotely close to what I saw after putting the Sharpie on the rounds, so bonus points to deflave for that suggestion.








Take care all!

Just a quick update. I got my gun back from Springfield 22 days after I sent it off. They reamed and polished the chamber and changed the BCG. It now ejects unfired cartridges with no trouble. The Romeo 5 went back on and just about held the same zero. (The Magpul backup sights didn’t.) The Barnes factory VOR-TX are chronographing the same as before. My Nosler 125 Ballistic Tip handloads and Sierra 110 Varminteer handloads now show the same average velocities but with wider extreme spreads, which may just be batch reloading variations. I picked up some Sellier and Bellot 124 grain “Tactical” FMJ on sale, and it shoots almost to the same POI at 100 as the Barnes VOR-TX.

All in all, I am pleased with the warranty work by Springfield Armory, and the gun already is getting a lot of UTV and hiking carry. I really like the D&H 10 round 300 BO magazines for general woods bumming.