I was at the NRA convention over the weekend and saw some really nice 1885 reproductions, made in Italy and sold under other peoples names. What does everyone think of them? They really tempted me.

Have you got a name or website. I have never heard of them.

The only two Itlalian makers of 1885 Winchesters I know of right now are Uberti - which has been making them for about 12 years or so now and Pedersoli which just started up a few years ago.

Of the two brands, from what I have seen- the Ubertis will be more authentically styled. Both will be about the same in terms of quality.

The Uberti makes both High and Low wall rifles and they are sold under many names- Uberti USA ,Cimmaron Arms, Dixie Gunworks, Taylors and co ,etc.

Pedersoli makes only a High wall. Based on the price($1,700??) and the looks(really weird stocks) I probably will never own one. For that kind of $$ you can get a complete and authentic US made 1885 from American gunworks or C Sharps in MT.

The Ubertis run from about $800 to $1,200 and the two I have owned function and shot just fine.

War Eagle, if you ever get up to West Point, MS, Gary's Pawn had a couple back in March. I think one of them had a long repro scope mounted.

Stryker60

Taylor and Company and Chiappa guns had them. Chiappa (they make that new 1911 22 cal pistol) had some that Turnbull had finished. They were amazing

Depends on what you are looking for. I just got back from a major long range .22 silhouette match, "mini-BPCR". Most of the top shooters in that game were present, with a bunch of vintage single shots. Most were originals, or American made replicas, custom or customized. I didn't see any Italian guns. These folks are shooting for performance - out to 200 meters. They don't acquire their rifles just for the cool or nostalgia factor. Take this for what it's worth.

Ubertis and Pedersoli seems to be decent guns. I understand that they each supply the other with some parts, or make certain guns for the other company's label. I don't know the details. You generally get what you pay for.

I agree with the poster who said their stock designs are a bit strange. I can't afford the really high end stuff, and might buy an Italian rifle at the right price, if they offered a decently shaped stock. I'm not going to buy an Italian rifle just for a donor action. Doesn't make sense.

Paul

I'm going to use it just as a nostalgiac way to deer hunt, no target matches or anything like that. Just shoot off the bench some and hunt with it occasionaly. They are strong enough to shoot any 45-70 right?

It's my understanding that Italian guns are subject to stringent government proof standards. To the best of my knowledge safety has never been an issue with Italian guns of modern manufacture. Best to look at the manufacturer's recommendations concerning loads. Plenty to choose from in .45-70.

If it were me, I'd stick with Pedersoli or Uberti, but I can't say that other Italian brands aren't OK.

Should serve you well.

Paul

Here's a somewhat different perspective on "you get what you pay for". One shooter at the match I attended had what I believe was a newer Ballard, an American made replica costing in the neighborhood of four grand. As he stepped up to the line I noticed he was carrying a cleaning rod. When I asked him why, he replied that his rifle sometimes let a round get in ahead of the extractor, necessitating pushing it out with a rod through the muzzle.

I was thinking if I could afford such a rifle, and that sort of thing happened, I would be seriously pissed, and it would be going back to the manufacturer post haste.

I cannot abide an unreliable firearm, regardless of type or price.

Paul

I have a Pedersoli Sharp's. And Iit seems to be a great rifle. No problems so far. And it shoots very well. I also have a few High Walls and Low Walls. Mine are "BrownChesters". Personally I like them. I have done very well with them. I looked at the Uberti's, but I did not like them. However it was not because of the function. I did not like them because of the stocks, and the finish they apply to the stocks. I think they put overly plain stocks on the rifles, and the finish is terrible, "IMO". I have been flamed before for saying this. But it really is my opinion. However I also will not buy a "BrownChester" either if the wood is plain. I do not want an "ugly" gun. Tom.

I prefer the actual Winchester made 1885's. I won't dabble in the Brownings though they are very nice.

Oh no, NO !! That would not do.

Uberti makes all the Italian highwalls, with the exception of the Pedersoli, and it's action is Uberti the barrel is a Pedersoli "target" grade barrel.
The crescent buttplates on the Uberti's are a nightmare. The button for the cleaning rod cover sticks out to far in the closed position so you have a 5/16 inch road jabbing your shoulder everytime it goes off. You can leave that trap open and eliminate that, but the weird shape at the toe of the buttplate really digs into your shoulder.The barrels are ok, they are chambered to the original specs, so the twist is slow by modern standards but will do fine for 99% of what a person might want to do with one.
Actualy for the money you can get one of the Winchester marked guns from Davidsons for the same money as the Italian.Unless you get a line on a used Italian, the Winchester is the better buy.

Most of us single shot fans would prefer an original, but not all can afford them or are willing to invest the money and wait time to have a custom built on an original action. The OP asked specifically about Italian rifles.

The Browning/Winchesters are nice, and they are good shooters, if you get the right model. Best are the BPCRs with Badger barrels. I'm not as confident of those with Japanese factory barrels. Some are very good, others are not.

Paul

If the purcahser wants a MECHANICALLY authentic 1885- he won't get it with an 1885 made by Miroku- whether it's a Browning OR a Winchester marked rifle. He will get a well made rifle that is SORT OF an 1885.

I have owned over a done of those rifles spread out over a 30 year span from the 1970s onward. All those guns - Browning /Winchester 1885s-are nothing more than the 1970s B-78 Browning made to look a look more like an orgional winchester COSMETICALLY. Other than an added upper rear tang on the more recent rifles, the action is the same. It's the real reason why the gun never really caught on with the 1885 fans in the BPCR game. The BPCR model with the Badger barrel shot very well and overall the guns were a good value. The problem was the action simply WAS NOT a real 1885 and so, it did not sell well enough for Browning to keep it in the lineup


The Uberti actions are near clones of the orgional 1885 actions. The only thing Uberti did was put reduntant action springs in them. They have BOTH the leaf spring of the early 1885s cobioned with the coil spring of the later guns.

About the only thing I do not like about the Uberti actions is the fact they only go to half cock on opening -like a Winder Musket. When altered to fully cock on opening they work identically to the origionals. As a matter of fact, if you were blind folded and worked a converted Uberti and an orgional 1885 ,you can not tell the difference in either feel or sound.

I also never had any issues with the crecent trap buttplate on the 38-55 Uberti I owned. The gun shot very well even with it's slow twist- which is what the origional rifles did have on them.

This Uberti Hiwall does shoot pretty well. Even with its slow twist and using the Lyman 335 gr bullet and 5744 there wasn't any problem lobbing them onto the gongs at Alliance Ne out to 1000 yds.
As to the junk buttplate, myself and 3 other people shot this rifle and to a one the comment was all the same, "that butt has got to go". It's nothing like the crescent on a real winchester.
Still if it were my decision and was looking at spending 1000+$ on a highwall I'm going with the one that has Winchester roll mark and wp proof on the barrel.
But then I do tend to let my AMERICAN pride flare up from time to time...

CDNN has some Winchester 1885's right now. Could you guys who know more about them than me take a look and tell me what you think. Download the catalog, pg 75.
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

Looks to me like if you want a hiwall thats the place to get it.

Yeah, and that "American" pride buys you a "Winchester" that is MADE IN JAPAN???..

Like I said,the current Winchester 1885s are all made in Japan by Miroku..

Nothing wrong with that, but they ain't American.

Basically it comes down to giving your $$ to FN who markets licensed Winchester branded guns in the US, or Beretta who owns Uberti.

Again, neither parent company is American.

"It's the real reason why the gun never really caught on with the 1885 fans in the BPCR game."

I'm not sure I'd agree with that, unless you are talking about a specific group of 1885 fans, namely those who know and love the original 1885. Also, whether you are referring to the BPCR game in the broad sense, or mostly competitive events like silhouette.

In any event, my sense is that this type of rifle is marketed mainly for nostalgic appeal or coolness. I doubt that most buyers of the various iterations of the Browning are concerned about the fact that it bears only an external resemblence to the Winchester 1885, and little of the internals.

I have also heard that Browning carefully plans limited production runs of special interest models in terms of projection of market interest. That is, they don't plan to produce rifles like the BPCRs indefinitely.

Occasionally you get it all in one package, function, form, and authenticity, as in the Shiloh Sharps, but that seems to be the exception.

My personal pipe dream is that somebody would produce an American made low wall rimfire at an affordable price, meaning somewhere between the imports and custom jobs like the Ballard (Ballwall). C. Sharps does this with their high wall, but I don't care for .22 rimfires on that action. Too "cavernous" for those little bitty cartridges, IMO.

Paul

If the newer 85's haven't caught on in the BPCR game it's certainly news to me, and who ever made that proclomation sure hasn't looked around the firing line at a bpcr shoot.

Yep.

Paul

Ranch 13,

You seem to be the one here making a lot of statements that simply ARE NOT TRUE based on your opnions rather than fact.

READ my posts rather than sticking to your biased line against the Ubertis.

Nobody said the Browning BPCRS rifles were not in use at matches.
Nobody said they were not an accruate rifle. Or a decent gun for the money.

What I actuall SAID, if you would READ rather than ARGUE is that they were not popular with the top shooters in the BPCR crowd.They are NOT an authentic replica of an 1885 Winchester. Period.


The top shooters only condsider them to be a beginners gun because they do NOT take down like and orgional for cleaning and they don't have the same trigger mechanism. They can't be upgraded

I don't know what matches you claim to attend, but
I'm an NRA Master Class BPCR Silhouette shooter. I have gone to PLENTY of matches.. I used 2 Browning BPCRs in the 1990s.

If you go to the nationals or any big NRA BPCR Silhoutte state shoot ,the Brownings ARE NOT numerous guns on the line.

The current winchester "hunter" 1885s are all but worthless for any serious BPCR match uses other than the short range SASS matches. The guns are simply too light for mid to long range match use. Also, standard Miroku barrels are a bit iffy with cast bullets and black powder due to their shaollow rifling design.

Alright listen up Jackass. The statements I made about the Uberti is based on my actual experience with it. The gun is in my safe. A good many years before I ever had internet or heard of the great all knowing Jim62, have yet to meet the dumbass , nor have any desire to. I spent alot of time with original winchesters. The Crescent butt on this Uberti IS close but not quite like a winchester. NONE of the 3 shooters that shot the rifle with me at Alliance Ne after the long range match on Saturday had ever experienced a butt plate quite that shape either in an original Winchester or current manufacturer. One of those fellas has a number of originals in his safe and uses them on regular basis.
NONE of us have ever encountered an original Winchester that had the button for the buttrap sticking that far out as to actually be painful when shooting. I remind you this one is a 38-55.
All one has to do is take a look around at a BPCR shoot, while they certainly aren't the most numerous rifles they are in attendance in probably a close second maybe 3rd place numbers. I can think of 10 of those rifles from shooters across 4 different states tha I see several times a year. And have noticed a goodly number of them at other shoots I attend but do not know the folks that own them.
Now dumbass go back and read my initial post on this topic. I'll repeat it here, I ( meanining Me) would buy a Winchester marked one before I bought one of the Italians if buying new. If a good deal on a used one (like this 38-55 I have in MY possession that if you get to see it will be the day hell froze over) then yes by all means get it.
And next time junior you decide to be the keyboard commando and decide what/how someone came about their OPINION on something take a minute to think about if you're really that damn smart.

[quote=jim62
If the purcahser wants a MECHANICALLY authentic 1885- he won't get it with an 1885 made by Miroku- whether it's a Browning OR a Winchester marked rifle. He will get a well made rifle that is SORT OF an 1885.

I have owned over a done of those rifles spread out over a 30 year span from the 1970s onward. All those guns - Browning /Winchester 1885s-are nothing more than the 1970s B-78 Browning made to look a look more like an orgional winchester COSMETICALLY. Other than an added upper rear tang on the more recent rifles, the action is the same. It's the real reason why the gun never really caught on with the 1885 fans in the BPCR game. The BPCR model with the Badger barrel shot very well and overall the guns were a good value. The problem was the action simply WAS NOT a real 1885 and so, it did not sell well enough for Browning to keep it in the lineup


The Uberti actions are near clones of the orgional 1885 actions. The only thing Uberti did was put reduntant action springs in them. They have BOTH the leaf spring of the early 1885s cobioned with the coil spring of the later guns.

About the only thing I do not like about the Uberti actions is the fact they only go to half cock on opening -like a Winder Musket. When altered to fully cock on opening they work identically to the origionals. As a matter of fact, if you were blind folded and worked a converted Uberti and an orgional 1885 ,you can not tell the difference in either feel or sound.

I also never had any issues with the crecent trap buttplate on the 38-55 Uberti I owned. The gun shot very well even with it's slow twist- which is what the origional rifles did have on them. [/quote]

Sorry there looser but I don't see anything in this post you made about top,bottom or begining shooters.

I'm not a keypboard commando.And any names you wish to call me here can certianly be applied to you.

And like I said, READ my posts before you post. That might help. My opinions are based on my experiences with both brands of rifles as well. And you are certainly entitled to your opinions. Just don't pass them off as facts. Especially when your facts are wrong- like claiming the current Winchester 1885s to be made in America.

I doubt you would ever meet me at a NRA BPCR Silhouette match because I doubt you shoot the game very much. If you did you, would not be making the claims you do about the current Miroku made guns "popularity" at registered shoots. Hell even at the Alliance Nebraska shoots, I doubt 10% of the guns are Miroku made 1885 rifles of ANY brand.

As far as your "problems" with the Unerti buttplates, they are an exact replicas of the earliest large frame Winchester cresent rifle plates, trap and all. They are the same plate Winchester used on early 1876, 1885 and 1886 rifles prior to 1890. The origionals had the same trap in the butt.

Apparenty there's too many big words in this post for someone here to understand?

Just incase my previous answer got missed, yes those are really good prices, and if a person wanting a hiwall for the purposes you've clearly stated earlier,that's the place to go.

Any relation to that guy in Conneticut running for senate,,, you know the distinquished viet nam vet?

No.. but you probably are related to him.

Your inability to deal in FACTS sure is the same.

Tell us all about those "American Made" Winchester marked 1885s on CDNN site.

I'm sure FN/Browning sure would like to know they are really made here and not Japan.

Jim find where anybody said those guns were made in the USA, could you do that for us there liltyke?

That was posted by you on this very thread.

The fact is the Uberti cresent plate is EXACTLY like that found on the earliest 1885s. But then again you would have to know something about early orgioanl Winchester 1885s to even know that.

Second, look at the bottom paragraph.. If you were not claiming that the Winchester 1885s were made in America with that statement ,what WERE you implying?

Maybe that there is some sort of bullschit, heeman "pride" to be attached to buying a very inauthentic "copy" of an 1885 with a mere NAME rollmarked on a barrel when the gun itself is made in JAPAN and licensed from Winchester/Olin by a company made in Belgium?

You are a funny guy...

Dsmn there liltot, you are good, you got me. By golly how stupid am I thinking that with you being there and helping to run that 100 rounds thru that rifle that evening, and all.......

I never said you did not shoot the rifle. Heck you can "like" or dislike the Uberti plate all you want.

But owning or even shooting a Uberti 1885 sure does not mean you even undertand how it relates to an origional Winchester 1885. Your posts here show that.

So does the BS about your "American pride" having ANYTHING to do with owning a Japanese made gun. :

Ah you mean you weren't there, so you really don't know the other folks that were there with ME????????
Wow you really had me going there for a while...
Yeh I own a Miroku built 95 in 405, damn fine rifle.
My bpcr's are Big Timber or built from USA parts except for one Cheap Italian Junker sharps.

allright fella's, take it easy! I started this post wanting to hear from some guys who know more than me about these rifles, didn't mean to start a war. Your punishment is to go in together and buy me one of those Winchester's

Actuallyyyy, I thought I saw on that CDNN thing that they gave you a discount for buying 2, so have em drop ship one in 405 to my lgs when you order yours....

I just ordered the Winchester, sorry Ranch13, didn't have your address to send you one

Awww dannggg I knew I forgot sumptin....

Well what did ya get???? Can't keep us in suspense like this......

Winchester 1885 limited series Hunter model 28" barrel, 45-70. Comes with a tang sight.

Those are pretty nice rifles. I've been around a couple of them that shot very well.
If you're shooting smokeless keep it in the "trapdoor" load area, the rifle will treat your shoulder well, and should give you some braggin sized groups.
Looking forward to hearing how you get along with it when it arrives.

I'm curious about the tang and tang sight. Does it have a long tang like the BPCR models?

Paul

Paul, yes they do, and they come with a Marbles tang sight already mounted. They have a Marbles brass bead on the front, but that's pretty easy to pop out and mount a lyman 17 or similar.

Sounds like a well thought out and practical model.

I'd like to see a pic.

Paul

Go to Gallery of guns dot com and in the gungenie thingy just punch in 1885 in the model and they'll all come up.
There's also a couple listed on the Guns international site , under the Winchester 1885 listings, and I believe there's a couple on Cabela's gun library. Also quite a few on Gunbroker, but not much for pictures with most of those..

As an aside one of the SDokata guys we shoot with,(the same one that uses one of those in 38-55 at Alliance) took one of those installed a crossno 22 liner, swapped the 45-70 ejector for a 3006 and uses it as a dedicated 22,with that ejector he doesn't need the screwdriver...

OK guys, it arrived. Pretty looking rifle. straight grained walnut but had a little figure to it. Stupid question time. The gun came with a tang sight and a normal rear sight. How do you use the tang sight with the other sight on it? I was hoping the rear sight would fold down, but that would make to much sense.

Best to just remove which ever sight you're not wanting to use.
If you decide to put the removed sight back on and use the other after you've shot it a while. Leave the first sight on the gun and use it to "bore" sight the sight being installed. That way you get very close on your windage and elevation settings without alot of guess and by golly.

Damn, sure would have made things easy for the rear sight to fold down. That way you could use both.

I left both sights on my Low Wall. And I use both sights on my Low Wall. I use the barrel sights on shots out to about 75 yards. And I use the barrel sights in lower light conditions for the same range in the woods.

Then for shots at 100 yards+ I use the marbles tang sight. On my rifle I get minimal interference from the barrel sight at 100 yards. At 150 yards the barrel sight is completely out of the picture. However I did add a slightly taller white front bead sight. And this makes my barrel sight all the way down to get sighted in at 50-75 yards.

I think you may have to experiment with the front sight height if you want to use both. I must have got lucky because I got the right front sight height the first time. Tom.

Just change the front bead. Tom.