Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots Italian 1885 high and low walls

I was at the NRA convention over the weekend and saw some really nice 1885 reproductions, made in Italy and sold under other peoples names. What does everyone think of them? They really tempted me.

Have you got a name or website. I have never heard of them.

The only two Itlalian makers of 1885 Winchesters I know of right now are Uberti - which has been making them for about 12 years or so now and Pedersoli which just started up a few years ago.

Of the two brands, from what I have seen- the Ubertis will be more authentically styled. Both will be about the same in terms of quality.

The Uberti makes both High and Low wall rifles and they are sold under many names- Uberti USA ,Cimmaron Arms, Dixie Gunworks, Taylors and co ,etc.

Pedersoli makes only a High wall. Based on the price($1,700??) and the looks(really weird stocks) I probably will never own one. For that kind of $$ you can get a complete and authentic US made 1885 from American gunworks or C Sharps in MT.

The Ubertis run from about $800 to $1,200 and the two I have owned function and shot just fine.

War Eagle, if you ever get up to West Point, MS, Gary's Pawn had a couple back in March. I think one of them had a long repro scope mounted.

Stryker60

Taylor and Company and Chiappa guns had them. Chiappa (they make that new 1911 22 cal pistol) had some that Turnbull had finished. They were amazing

Depends on what you are looking for. I just got back from a major long range .22 silhouette match, "mini-BPCR". Most of the top shooters in that game were present, with a bunch of vintage single shots. Most were originals, or American made replicas, custom or customized. I didn't see any Italian guns. These folks are shooting for performance - out to 200 meters. They don't acquire their rifles just for the cool or nostalgia factor. Take this for what it's worth.

Ubertis and Pedersoli seems to be decent guns. I understand that they each supply the other with some parts, or make certain guns for the other company's label. I don't know the details. You generally get what you pay for.

I agree with the poster who said their stock designs are a bit strange. I can't afford the really high end stuff, and might buy an Italian rifle at the right price, if they offered a decently shaped stock. I'm not going to buy an Italian rifle just for a donor action. Doesn't make sense.

Paul

I'm going to use it just as a nostalgiac way to deer hunt, no target matches or anything like that. Just shoot off the bench some and hunt with it occasionaly. They are strong enough to shoot any 45-70 right?

It's my understanding that Italian guns are subject to stringent government proof standards. To the best of my knowledge safety has never been an issue with Italian guns of modern manufacture. Best to look at the manufacturer's recommendations concerning loads. Plenty to choose from in .45-70.

If it were me, I'd stick with Pedersoli or Uberti, but I can't say that other Italian brands aren't OK.

Should serve you well.

Paul

Here's a somewhat different perspective on "you get what you pay for". One shooter at the match I attended had what I believe was a newer Ballard, an American made replica costing in the neighborhood of four grand. As he stepped up to the line I noticed he was carrying a cleaning rod. When I asked him why, he replied that his rifle sometimes let a round get in ahead of the extractor, necessitating pushing it out with a rod through the muzzle.

I was thinking if I could afford such a rifle, and that sort of thing happened, I would be seriously pissed, and it would be going back to the manufacturer post haste.

I cannot abide an unreliable firearm, regardless of type or price.

Paul

I have a Pedersoli Sharp's. And Iit seems to be a great rifle. No problems so far. And it shoots very well. I also have a few High Walls and Low Walls. Mine are "BrownChesters". Personally I like them. I have done very well with them. I looked at the Uberti's, but I did not like them. However it was not because of the function. I did not like them because of the stocks, and the finish they apply to the stocks. I think they put overly plain stocks on the rifles, and the finish is terrible, "IMO". I have been flamed before for saying this. But it really is my opinion. However I also will not buy a "BrownChester" either if the wood is plain. I do not want an "ugly" gun. Tom.

I prefer the actual Winchester made 1885's. I won't dabble in the Brownings though they are very nice.

Oh no, NO !! That would not do.

Uberti makes all the Italian highwalls, with the exception of the Pedersoli, and it's action is Uberti the barrel is a Pedersoli "target" grade barrel.
The crescent buttplates on the Uberti's are a nightmare. The button for the cleaning rod cover sticks out to far in the closed position so you have a 5/16 inch road jabbing your shoulder everytime it goes off. You can leave that trap open and eliminate that, but the weird shape at the toe of the buttplate really digs into your shoulder.The barrels are ok, they are chambered to the original specs, so the twist is slow by modern standards but will do fine for 99% of what a person might want to do with one.
Actualy for the money you can get one of the Winchester marked guns from Davidsons for the same money as the Italian.Unless you get a line on a used Italian, the Winchester is the better buy.

Most of us single shot fans would prefer an original, but not all can afford them or are willing to invest the money and wait time to have a custom built on an original action. The OP asked specifically about Italian rifles.

The Browning/Winchesters are nice, and they are good shooters, if you get the right model. Best are the BPCRs with Badger barrels. I'm not as confident of those with Japanese factory barrels. Some are very good, others are not.

Paul

If the purcahser wants a MECHANICALLY authentic 1885- he won't get it with an 1885 made by Miroku- whether it's a Browning OR a Winchester marked rifle. He will get a well made rifle that is SORT OF an 1885.

I have owned over a done of those rifles spread out over a 30 year span from the 1970s onward. All those guns - Browning /Winchester 1885s-are nothing more than the 1970s B-78 Browning made to look a look more like an orgional winchester COSMETICALLY. Other than an added upper rear tang on the more recent rifles, the action is the same. It's the real reason why the gun never really caught on with the 1885 fans in the BPCR game. The BPCR model with the Badger barrel shot very well and overall the guns were a good value. The problem was the action simply WAS NOT a real 1885 and so, it did not sell well enough for Browning to keep it in the lineup


The Uberti actions are near clones of the orgional 1885 actions. The only thing Uberti did was put reduntant action springs in them. They have BOTH the leaf spring of the early 1885s cobioned with the coil spring of the later guns.

About the only thing I do not like about the Uberti actions is the fact they only go to half cock on opening -like a Winder Musket. When altered to fully cock on opening they work identically to the origionals. As a matter of fact, if you were blind folded and worked a converted Uberti and an orgional 1885 ,you can not tell the difference in either feel or sound.

I also never had any issues with the crecent trap buttplate on the 38-55 Uberti I owned. The gun shot very well even with it's slow twist- which is what the origional rifles did have on them.

This Uberti Hiwall does shoot pretty well. Even with its slow twist and using the Lyman 335 gr bullet and 5744 there wasn't any problem lobbing them onto the gongs at Alliance Ne out to 1000 yds.
As to the junk buttplate, myself and 3 other people shot this rifle and to a one the comment was all the same, "that butt has got to go". It's nothing like the crescent on a real winchester.
Still if it were my decision and was looking at spending 1000+$ on a highwall I'm going with the one that has Winchester roll mark and wp proof on the barrel.
But then I do tend to let my AMERICAN pride flare up from time to time...

CDNN has some Winchester 1885's right now. Could you guys who know more about them than me take a look and tell me what you think. Download the catalog, pg 75.
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

Looks to me like if you want a hiwall thats the place to get it.

Yeah, and that "American" pride buys you a "Winchester" that is MADE IN JAPAN???..

Like I said,the current Winchester 1885s are all made in Japan by Miroku..

Nothing wrong with that, but they ain't American.

Basically it comes down to giving your $$ to FN who markets licensed Winchester branded guns in the US, or Beretta who owns Uberti.

Again, neither parent company is American.

"It's the real reason why the gun never really caught on with the 1885 fans in the BPCR game."

I'm not sure I'd agree with that, unless you are talking about a specific group of 1885 fans, namely those who know and love the original 1885. Also, whether you are referring to the BPCR game in the broad sense, or mostly competitive events like silhouette.

In any event, my sense is that this type of rifle is marketed mainly for nostalgic appeal or coolness. I doubt that most buyers of the various iterations of the Browning are concerned about the fact that it bears only an external resemblence to the Winchester 1885, and little of the internals.

I have also heard that Browning carefully plans limited production runs of special interest models in terms of projection of market interest. That is, they don't plan to produce rifles like the BPCRs indefinitely.

Occasionally you get it all in one package, function, form, and authenticity, as in the Shiloh Sharps, but that seems to be the exception.

My personal pipe dream is that somebody would produce an American made low wall rimfire at an affordable price, meaning somewhere between the imports and custom jobs like the Ballard (Ballwall). C. Sharps does this with their high wall, but I don't care for .22 rimfires on that action. Too "cavernous" for those little bitty cartridges, IMO.

Paul