The RCMP have admitted to forcing entry into houses with High River to seize firearms. The residents are not allowed in due to flood issues, the RCMP are holding the firearms until individuals can prove ownership. Please check the Calgary Herald for details. I will refrain from further comment until my temper has abated. GRF
ICalgary Herald: HIGH RIVER � RCMP revealed Thursday that officers have confiscated a �substantial amount� of firearms from homes in the evacuated town of High River. �We just want to make sure that all of those thin (See the full text at
http://www.calgaryherald.com/Hell+R...from+High+River+homes/8588867/story.html)
Well, what do you expect, this is KANADA, where we serfs really have NO rights and the cops can do pretty much what they want.
The issue of "proving ownership" of personal property STOLEN by what has become an absolute national disgrace, the most appalling and incompetent national "law enforcement" department in any "First World" nation is the REALLY interesting aspect of this entire disgusting affair.
We NEED a REAL Constitution here and we NEED it NOW!!!!
How does a person prove ownership of a firearm they may have inherited or which they acquired many years ago and for which they no longer have a purchase document?
Under these circumstances the Mounties are likely to say "oh well, if the guns were registered there wouldn't be any problem in proving ownership."
I couldn't get the newspaper page to come up so couldn't read the article. It would seem what the Mounties did amounts to common theft - they entered a private residence without the owners permission and removed articles from that residence.
Let the Mounties prove they are not common thieves.
Jim
If the police have done diligence in seizing these firearms, they should have the date, time and LOCATION (address) they were seized from attached to every individual firearm. What's this about proving ownership? It came from MY HOUSE -- I OWN IT!
These are the people,(RCMP), that are "Protecting" citizens? What if they were on the "other" side?
There is a remedy for this sort of schit. It is called the sniper ambush. Done often enough, it'll bring modern armies to their knees.
All the law states is that they must be stored under lock and key, if they broke in and removed them, then I think the owners have a right to take them to court over this. All the owners should get together and get a few lawyers to represent them and nail those MF real good.
Notice the erroneous information in the article:
Federal regulations require gun owners to keep firearms in locked vaults or containers. When guns are being stored, they must be unloaded and disabled, either by a trigger lock, cable lock or by removing the bolt.Province will work with RCMP to return High River firearms
By Jason van Rassel, Calgary Herald June 28, 2013 3:05 PM
Comment 0 Solicitor General Jonathan Denis said the government will work with the RCMP to return firearms that police removed from evacuated homes in High River to their rightful owners.
A move by the RCMP to seize guns found during door-to-door searches of High River during a complete evacuation of the town of 13,000 residents has angered some area residents.
Legislation gives police additional powers during a state of emergency to enter homes to check on residents� welfare and ensure there are no safety issues.
Denis said in an interview Friday he wants to ensure firearms seized under that authority are returned to owners in a timely way.
�What I�m looking forward to hearing from the RCMP is they have an orderly process for returning people�s property to them,� Denis said.
�I will work with the RCMP to ensure there�s an orderly return of property.�
The RCMP released a written statement Friday pledging to return guns to owners �as soon as practically possible.�
The statement said the guns were found �in plain view� during search and rescue operations during the evacuation.
�The last thing any gun owner wants is to have their guns fall into the wrong hands. Residents of High River can be assured that firearms now in the possession of the RCMP are in safe hands, and will be returned to them as soon as practically possible,� Assistant Commissioner Marianne Ryan said in the RCMP�s written statement.
As solicitor general, Denis and his department oversee policing in the province and have a 20-year contract with the RCMP to act as the provincial police force in small towns and rural areas.
However, Denis stressed the police don�t take specific direction from the government on operations and tactics.
�Policing is independent. There was no direction from our government to do this,� Denis said.
�I have every confidence they�re going to get this right in the end, and there was no intention to step on the rights of law-abiding gun owners.�
The provincial government has released a letter Denis wrote Thursday to the RCMP�s commander in Alberta, Dep. Commissioner Dale McGowan, expressing concerns about the seizures on behalf of High River residents.
�First, I would ask you to please confirm that these firearms are stored and not confiscated or seized,� Denis wrote.
Federal regulations require gun owners to keep firearms in locked vaults or containers. When guns are being stored, they must be unloaded and disabled, either by a trigger lock, cable lock or by removing the bolt.
Failing to follow storage regulations can result in charges under the Criminal Code or the federal Firearms Act.
Denis acknowledged it�s quite likely residents in High River moved their guns to keep them from being damaged by flood waters � but he added police also have the ability to take that into consideration.
�My personal view is we have to consider the context we�re dealing with,� he said.
�I wouldn�t be surprised people took guns out of their lockers so they wouldn�t get flooded.�
More to come on this story � the Herald is still seeking additional comment from the RCMP and others.
[email protected]Read more:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/P...irearms/8593564/story.html#ixzz2XXh1IQ6b
Are they as concerned about computers, jewelry, or other high dollar, portable items
If they took out a tv they probably would be accused of theft. It gets harder and harder to support police. Add this to the militarization of the municipal forces and they no longer resemble the police I knew in my youth.
Jim
The point is, are they concerned with loss of private property or is there another agenda?,
Folks how do you know they (RCMP) aren't busy recording serial #'s and making a list of everybody and their guns just like they had before? Maybe seeing how many they can charge and take away their guns. Just saying!! Cheers NC P.S. Good luck
The little boy follows the bigger bully, This was done in New Orleans after Katrina.
One article I read stated that the Premier supports the actions of the RCMP in this theft. On a brighter note, the Prime Ministers Office has entered the fray on the side of the residents/gun owners and has ordered the return of peoples firearms ASAP and does not support the RCMP action.
Interesting times in Alberta.
I think Redford has sealed the fate of the Provincial Conservatives in Alberta with this latest Liberal in Conservative colours outrage.
Kute, I agree, it is way past time we had a Constitution in Canada that protected the rights of the law abiding. We need Property Rights, Gun Rights and the Right to Life, Liberty and the means to ensure them through self defense!
It must be real nice to leave your home locked and secure to return to your front door busted in by the very people that are supposed to prevent that from happening. Clearly there are some 'decision makers' withing the rcmp that need to retire, they have been in power so long they have lost any common sense and perspective on what is right and wrong.
The one good thing about this is that the illegals that head south to the U.S. can usually speak English and are a better class of people than the southern border. I think that is why they put the worst Border Patrol agents on the Northern border. (like deflave)
It must be real nice to leave your home locked and secure to return to your front door busted in by the very people that are supposed to prevent that from happening. Clearly there are some 'decision makers' withing the rcmp that need to retire, they have been in power so long they have lost any common sense and perspective on what is right and wrong.
CanuckShooter;
I hope that this Canada Day weekend finds you and yours doing well sir.
I've quoted your post in it's entirety as there is nothing that you've stated - well articulated too might I add - that I don't agree with.
We've got both business and personal ties in the Calgary flood and business associates who've been very much affected by the High River flood.
While I've not heard all of the details as yet, I can't conceive of a situation where a LEO should be adding to the dismay of the good folks in High River by seizing firearms.
At this juncture too, I remain unconvinced that it's anything other than an illegal seizure - so I'll continue calling it that until proven wrong.
I've had a lifetime of relationships with various RCMP officers and have the utmost respect for the individuals that I've come to know and call friends.
The organization as a whole however seems to have very much lost it's focal point where serving some of the rural communities are concerned. While I'm sure there are "things going on" in some rural prairie towns, it isn't downtown Edmonton or Vancouver - I've got friends and know good men in both Edmonton and Vancouver PD who would agree with that.
Like my cyber friend GRF, I'm much less than satisfied with the actions of our national police force in this instance as it appears right now.
All the best to you and yours this weekend CanuckShooter.
Dwayne
It must be real nice to leave your home locked and secure to return to your front door busted in by the very people that are supposed to prevent that from happening. Clearly there are some 'decision makers' withing the rcmp that need to retire, they have been in power so long they have lost any common sense and perspective on what is right and wrong.
Exactly, the RCMP in this, as in so many other immoral and essentially totalitarian actions in recent years, have demonstrated WHY so many average, decent, native-born Canadians do not trust, respect or like them.
They are now a disgrace to Canada and should be disbanded and all current members not accepted as potential recruits into a new and socially beneficial national police group. This, is because all of the now serving members have been inculcated with the "cop mentality" that sees themselves as somehow "special" and above the law.
One wonders, HOW, did these particular members KNOW where all of these guns WERE? Do they have and against the expressed policy of the current Canadian government, some LIST of who has which guns?
In my opinion and it deeply saddens me to say this, but, the police in Canada, especially our once-revered and now largely despised RCMP, ARE THE "problem." We must clean this mess up or face far worse situations than this one, which should become a warning to all decent Canadians!
kutenay;
Good morning to you sir, Happy Canada Day to you folks as well.
As you've stated, this is part of the issue facing both the RCMP and Canadians.
In my estimation, the entire Geoff Mantler fiasco in Kelowna and now this mess in High River puts it all into sharp focus in many ways.
What the RCMP - and I'm talking about the body as a whole entity, not individual enlightened officers who hopefully still exist - fail to realize is that if something of magnitude happens that they're going to need us "average" Canadians to give them a hand.
If they continue down the path they are on, I'd venture to say that more and more "average" Canadians are going to be less and less inclined to do so - or help them out in any way.
As you know kutenay, effective policing cannot exist without the support of the community. This has been a historically proven fact time and again.
Lastly, while I perhaps shouldn't even be articulating this on open forum, the RCMP have a lot of ground to make up when it comes to respect from their fellow LE entities here in the west.
I'd go into details that with you in private on our back deck sometime over something wet - you folks are invited by the way - but I'll leave it at that.
Anyway, it's a bloody sad day when our national police force doesn't have the intuition to understand they are loosing or have already lost everything they need to be effective. Every day I'm getting closer to your position of starting over again with a lot of things here in Canada and from what I understand we are not alone.....
All the best to you and yours again this Canada Day sir.
Dwayne
Does the Ombudsman ever do anyone any good? Is it a national joke?
wabigoon;
Hopefully this finds you and yours well on this Canada Day long weekend - I'll send you best wishes as an honorary Canuck if that's OK?
While this is only my opinion on your question, I'd say that at present the best hope in the High River issue being taken dealt with is that the Prime Minister's office has come out against the actions of the RCMP.
Whether they like to admit it or not, the RCMP do have to answer to the folks that will appoint the Commissioner and that's the PM's office.
Here's a couple links to news stories on the matter.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...-seized-from-evacuated-high-river-homes/http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/06/29/rcmp-response-to-flooding-in-high-river-was-a-disasterThis is a pretty big black eye for the RCMP in my estimation, especially so in Alberta - who incidentally like BC just signed contracts with the RCMP to police the province. We both used to have provincial police services and unless I miss my guess this will cause a lot of folks to begin to work studiously towards reinstating them again.
Then too, the municipalities and the province pay the RCMP detachments and again whether they like to discuss it openly or not, when they get their budgets choked off and lose community support the RCMP will find it nigh onto impossible to conduct their tasks in a meaningful way.
In our last federal election Canadian gun owners seem to have made the difference in who got it - right wing Conservatives and who was completely obliterated - left wing Liberal Party of Canada.
A whole bunch of fund raising money for the Conservative party comes from western sources - Saskatchewan, Alberta and some BC sources too. They aren't happy about the situation in High River and one can be assured that has been communicated with the Conservative party in a meaningful way.
We'll see if the RCMP brass both in Ottawa and in Alberta have enough of a grasp on their situation to turn this around. I'm hopeful that they understand which way the wind is blowing here, but honestly am not overly optimistic this time.
Oh, the office of the Ombudsman - in my opinion - has no teeth and is treated as such.
Anyway, that's just my thoughts on it again wabigoon. All the best to you and yours this weekend.
Dwayne
I am not sure if any Ombudsman anywhere has teeth. Sometimes if a stink gets raised, something might get done.
One problem here, the media is on the wrong side.
wabigoon;
Our media for the most part is no better than yours and as we watch a whole lot of US media up here I can say that with confidence.
I was thinking of different ways that the local community's cooperation is vital to effective policing and it brought to mind a tale from my somewhat checkered youth.
In the '70's a bunch of us would hang out at a local garage/service station - "us" being the local "motor heads". At any given time there'd be between 6-10 jacked up muscle cars parked out front, sometimes one on the hoist getting a tune up or new transmission installed before an evening of "letting the horses run a wee bit."
Anyway... this was also the garage that tuned the local police cars too, so the young mechanic would always take the interceptor out on the highway and then report back to us what the top speed was.
It was - from time to time - handy to know details like that.
All the best to you and yours sir.
Dwayne
Ever see "American Graffiti"? The part where they yank the axel from the police car?
Ever see "American Graffiti"? The part where they yank the axel from the police car?
wabigoon;
Indeed I saw it when it first came out and several times since.
I had a poster of Edward Milner and his yellow '32 Ford in my garage until a couple years ago.
We were mostly good farm kids who meant no harm to anyone and for the most part were quite respectful of the local LEO. Many were the times they let me off with a warning or simply pointed north which meant I wasn't supposed to come back into town until next weekend.
It was sort of a game with me and if I was tagged by the constabulary then I took what I had coming to me with grace and respect. I believe they liked those rules of engagement and responded in kind towards me.
Anyway we didn't wish any ill befall the constables and in retrospect a few of the younger ones likely looked forward to seeing how their cruisers would run against our hot rods.
It all seems like a lifetime ago now wabigoon - maybe even a different planet or some such, you know?
Hopefully you all have a good Sunday sir.
Dwayne
The boys in a local town would use an unfiltered cigarette as a time delay fuse. Set off a string of firecrackers a block away while they were chatting with the town policeman. He'd go tearing off to apprehend the culprit. Fairly harmless prank.
I wonder how many of the confiscated guns have been tampered with or damaged?? You cannot trust strangers to have care and control of your firearms when there is a very real possibility some of them may be PITA sympathizers. I know that I'd never trust that the gun being returned to me was the same one that was lifted. :-(
I clipped this from another site, FYI
===============================================================
This is from a friend's friend's status. They are in the High River area, their home was flooded (lots of damage) names are removed:
"... We also are missing three rifles , one that was in ****'s closet and two that were locked in the gun rack in ****'s den. All three were secured with gun locks and secure lock cables. The cables were cut to remove them... "
There really needs to be hell raised over this. Nothing else was removed from the house.
=================================================================
How can anyone express the outrage these people must be feeling by this violation of our rights to be free from unreasonable search and seizure??
CanuckShooter;
Happy Canada Day to you sir, I hope this finds you well.
On gunnutz there is quite a furor - understandably - about the whole High River situation.
While I hope that some good will come of it, such as better ground rules for the RCMP in emergency situations, I'm not sure it will be enough to force a sea change in their organization.
As many have stated as well as me, there are indeed good individual officers there with some horse sense, but the organization needs fundamental changes made in how they interact with us if they remotely hope to be even marginally effective in their task.
When we were evacuated by the Vaseaux fire I'll admit that I didn't really give any thought to being armed or not. Let's just say that most days when we travel the back country there's a variety of tools along that have proven helpful in dealing with the vagaries of life and leave it there.
I do recall saying to my good wife as we were pulling the horse trailer out of the driveway that if the place burned down I'd like to change the house design next time.
That and I recall telling her that I'd likely not build another belted magnum rifle again.
As I'm a member of BCWF and the NFA, I'll be getting updates on developments in High River for sure, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
All the best to you and yours again this Canada Day sir.
Dwayne
A lot of RCMP are lone ranger types inventing stuff as they go.
Most RCMP don't even know the rules for firearm conveyance or storage.
378Canuck;
Unfortunately you are all too correct in that sir.
I've made it a practice of carrying a current print out straight from the RCMP website - with their logo on top and everything - of the rules of transport and storage.
There's been a couple times where I patiently tried to explain firearms law to both RCMP Constables and Canadian Border Services officers.
Most LEO in Canada are emphatically not "gun people" and never will be. What they do need to be however is aware of the law and how it pertains to them enforcing it.
Perhaps a few high profile cases such as this mess in High River will educate a few Constables in that regard.
Hey, I can always hope can't I?
All the best to you this weekend 378Canuck.
Regards,
Dwayne
I would like to see us change to the US system of government with an elected senate and congress to keep a balance against big boss at the top
And end up with another Obama running our country-no thanks.
Both the Constitutional Republic, and the Parliamentary government types require elected officials with a certain amount of intelligence.
Both the Constitutional Republic, and the Parliamentary government types require elected officials with a certain amount of intelligence.
wabigoon;
I hope this finds you and yours well today sir.
It sorta strikes me that an important ingredient missing these days is an intelligently informed electorate.
That would be a grand first step towards ensuring a better grade of elected officials.
The cynic who lives deep inside of me sometimes rises to the surface and suggests that we end up with the elected officials that we deserve....
Thankfully he doesn't make it out that often though.
Dwayne
Dwayne, Thanks for the usual kindness. It would either follow, or go before that an intelligent electorate would elect the aforesaid officials.
Or else as some have said, we get the government we deserve.
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.
Plato
Short of donating several thousand dollars a year, what is your best idea of participating in politics?
Join the provincial and federal constituency associations of your choice, let your views be known, attend meetings of the mayor and council of your municipality, note their voting, support those that vote the way you think they should or run yourself.
Just wondering how things are playing out in High River now that the flooding is over and people are returning to their homes have the RCMP been by to deliver the guns back to the home owners that the Mounties were keeping safe for them!!! Just asking.
Cheers NC
A flurry of recent stories about police knocking on � and sometimes knocking in � people�s front doors have raised alarms in both the U.S. and Canada about whether the home is still constitutionally protected from increasing police power.
As WND reported, High River, Alberta, has become a recent focal point of the controversy, when it was revealed Royal Canadian Mounted Police entered the flooded town after a mandatory evacuation, broke down doors and began confiscating �several hundred� firearms.
The details are eerily reminiscent of New Orleans during hurricane Katrina, when officers similarly invaded homes and confiscated thousands of weapons they uncovered.
In High River, RCMP and province officials assured citizens the only guns taken were those �improperly secured� and �in plain view� � to be stored for safekeeping and returned to residents after the evacuation ended.
But Michael Coren of Canada�s Sun News says the authorities are �lying, because we know the police actually broke locks to get into cupboards to find out if there were guns there.�
High River resident Cam Fleury believes his house, which sits at a high point free of floodwater, was targeted by the RCMP.
�This whole area is the highest point in town, so there was no flood damage,� Fleury told Sun News, �so there was no reason for them to enter any of these houses.�
northcountry;
Hopefully this finds you well on this warm summer evening sir.
It looks as if they have indeed begun to return them - which is good.
It also looks like Commissioner Bob Paulson, who in my opinion got the job because the government wants the RCMP image to be improved and their interactions with Canadians as well, is fully supportive of having Ian McPhail look into the matter.
Here's a link on a bit of the news on it.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sto...guns-complaint-commissioner-paulson.htmlI'm not exactly holding my breath to see sweeping changes in our national police force, but at least it's an improvement over what we were seeing when the Liberals were in power.
I hope they can salvage what's left of the RCMP's reputation in Canada, but honestly this whole deal in High River couldn't have come at a better/worse time - depending on which side of the gun control issue one is on.
Most of us who were anti-registration are pointing to High River and saying "This is EXACTLY what we were talking about folks."
Anyway, we'll see what happens and it won't happen quickly I'm betting. All the best to you this summer sir.
Dwayne
It Just A test!!> it went down in Boston Very Well > So they are trying in Alberta and it went down not so Well> very interesting. Canadians luv their Guns More then Americians It seems!
Join the provincial and federal constituency associations of your choice, let your views be known, attend meetings of the mayor and council of your municipality, note their voting, support those that vote the way you think they should or run yourself.
For 39 years I was a municipal employee so I tended to avoid political involvement. In the Fall of 1993 I retired. In 1994 there was a Provincial election in which the son of a friend of mine was running as the PC candidate. As I was no longer employed I decided to offer to assist to try and learn more about the political process. Certain circumstances eventually led me to be responsible for the running of the door to door portion of the campaign for the last couple of weeks of the campaign.
At the time the NDP had been in power and were universally hated due to their performance. If memory serves me correctly the candidate I was working for won with a plurality of over 20,000 votes.
Following the election, at the request of the candidates father, I submitted a somewhat lengthy review of the ways in which I thought the campaign could have been better run. My main criticism involved a family member of the candidate who, to my knowledge, had no prior political experience. This person at times was over riding recommendations of others in respect to how the campaign should be run. As it turned out the opposing sitting party was so reviled that it didn't matter anyway.
I was requested to join the riding association executive and did so for either a year or year and a half. (Can't remember exactly.)
At this point it seemed the focal point of the riding association was fund raising, something I have never been very comfortable with. In addition it seemed as though the riding association members were expected to be at the forefront of making contributions. In any case the time came when I decided to step down.
When the next election rolled around I was approached by the candidate and asked to participate in the running of the campaign. I declined for a number of personal reasons. The candidate was re-elected although with a sharply reduced plurality. In time a third election occurred and again the candidate was re-elected but down to a plurality of two or three thousand votes and the party was no longer in power.
I thought this was unfortunate as the person whom I had been working for was, at that time, the Minister of Natural Resources. He was, and is, very much an outdoor person and I feel would have done a good job for sportsmen.
During the course of these events the PC premier had decided for strictly political reasons to eliminate the spring bear hunt. After my friend had become the Minister of Natural Resources I had asked if he had plans to reinstate the spring hunt. In a very round about way the answer seemed to be no. I had the impression he was doing as he was told by the Premier's office. Needless to say my reply to this was not too well received. This pretty much capped any thoughts I might have had about ever becoming more involved in the political process. This feeling was reinforced by my many years of exposure to municipal politicians, far too many of whom I felt were egotists more interested in promoting themselves than in necessarily doing what was best for the community.
Maybe I'm jaded but being in my late 70's I no longer have any desire to again become involved other than as a voter and even that is becoming harder.
Just as an aside during my initial work on a campaign there was another guy working there who is now the head of the Canadian Shooting Sports Association. Strange bedfellows and all that?
Sorry for the long rant but just thought my experience might be of interest to a few of the campfire members.
Jim
Jim, I was gung ho in my forty's, but find myself grown cynical the last few years.
There may be more to it than cash, but they sure like it.
Join the provincial and federal constituency associations of your choice, let your views be known, attend meetings of the mayor and council of your municipality, note their voting, support those that vote the way you think they should or run yourself.
For 39 years I was a municipal employee so I tended to avoid political involvement. In the Fall of 1993 I retired. In 1994 there was a Provincial election in which the son of a friend of mine was running as the PC candidate. As I was no longer employed I decided to offer to assist to try and learn more about the political process. Certain circumstances eventually led me to be responsible for the running of the door to door portion of the campaign for the last couple of weeks of the campaign.
At the time the NDP had been in power and were universally hated due to their performance. If memory serves me correctly the candidate I was working for won with a plurality of over 20,000 votes.
Following the election, at the request of the candidates father, I submitted a somewhat lengthy review of the ways in which I thought the campaign could have been better run. My main criticism involved a family member of the candidate who, to my knowledge, had no prior political experience. This person at times was over riding recommendations of others in respect to how the campaign should be run. As it turned out the opposing sitting party was so reviled that it didn't matter anyway.
I was requested to join the riding association executive and did so for either a year or year and a half. (Can't remember exactly.)
At this point it seemed the focal point of the riding association was fund raising, something I have never been very comfortable with. In addition it seemed as though the riding association members were expected to be at the forefront of making contributions. In any case the time came when I decided to step down.
When the next election rolled around I was approached by the candidate and asked to participate in the running of the campaign. I declined for a number of personal reasons. The candidate was re-elected although with a sharply reduced plurality. In time a third election occurred and again the candidate was re-elected but down to a plurality of two or three thousand votes and the party was no longer in power.
I thought this was unfortunate as the person whom I had been working for was, at that time, the Minister of Natural Resources. He was, and is, very much an outdoor person and I feel would have done a good job for sportsmen.
During the course of these events the PC premier had decided for strictly political reasons to eliminate the spring bear hunt. After my friend had become the Minister of Natural Resources I had asked if he had plans to reinstate the spring hunt. In a very round about way the answer seemed to be no. I had the impression he was doing as he was told by the Premier's office. Needless to say my reply to this was not too well received. This pretty much capped any thoughts I might have had about ever becoming more involved in the political process. This feeling was reinforced by my many years of exposure to municipal politicians, far too many of whom I felt were egotists more interested in promoting themselves than in necessarily doing what was best for the community.
Maybe I'm jaded but being in my late 70's I no longer have any desire to again become involved other than as a voter and even that is becoming harder.
Just as an aside during my initial work on a campaign there was another guy working there who is now the head of the Canadian Shooting Sports Association. Strange bedfellows and all that?
Sorry for the long rant but just thought my experience might be of interest to a few of the campfire members.
Jim
Good day Jim,I hope you missed Toronto's shower!I've found that a lot of politicians enter the fray with genuine wishes to improve the system,no matter which party they are in.Some on both sides are driven by ideologies but many truly believe they can make a difference.Once elected they run into 2 things,"The Party Line",that they are expected to adhere to,and the bureaucrcy which actually runs the various ministries no matter who is in power.I support Governments whose ideas seem to coincide with mine,but I am also cynical and prefer to support the Canadian Shooting sports lobby groups.Continued pressure on Government is the only way to go,between High Riverand obnoxius rulings by CFOs our sport is still at great risk.Best wishes,Monashee
Wabigoon and Monashee,
Thanks for your comments. I provided my information to give some insight into one persons view of the political process both as a government employee and as a political supporter. I'd like to hear from anyone else who may have been involved at any level as to what their impressions were (are).
Jim
People have all sorts of excuses as to why they don't want to get involved in the political process, the world is run by those that show up.
I joined a political party, and have worked at updating call out lists for the local riding association, and have filled out ever questionaire electronically that has come to my email. I have made a few contributions, but as a retiree from a provincial government job, funds are not in large supply. I like at least having the illusion that some of what I say might get tabled and discussed if there are others with similar views.
Run for political office? Are you kidding? Why make a liar out of an otherwise honest man?
Dwayne
Thank you for your kind remarks. I have to ask though.do you suppose the RCMP will give their guns back and not record all details of same and who owns same. Is this not the RCMP building their own registry with out authority. Just saying.Hoping this finds you and yous well this fine day. Cheers NC
northcountry;
Thanks for the reply sir.
I believe that there may well be some members in management in the RCMP who harbor the vain hope that recording some of the data on individual firearms might be a bit of a De facto registration. They couldn't be more wrong.
About the only thing they may end up with is data on firearms owners who don't have a current PAL and that would be it.
The reason I say that anyone thinking that making a list today of who's got what would do any good is that there are a lot of us who are making good and sure many, many, many firearms are LEGALLY changing hands.....at a refreshingly dizzying rate.
At the stroke of midnight when the wonderfully useful registry died, I can only guess how many firearms LEGALLY changed hands in Canada - this was by the way not by chance or accident.
It would strike me that the observant folks in High River were no doubt part of this movement and learned a thing or three from it.
Hey, the returned firearms could conceivably be provinces away by now - different ones having taken their spot in gun safes all across High River.
Bad data and all that you see northcountry.
For those who are wondering, the same rules applied to Quebec's efforts to retain a registry as well - or at least legally it surely could have.
This lesson may or may not be lost on the rank and file Constables, we'll see I suppose.
Anyway that's just my take on it northcountry and as always I might be entirely incorrect on all counts.
All the best to you this weekend sir.
Dwayne
Don't be surprised if all the comments made on this post are being scrutinized by RCMP computer spies. They don't only look for porno. So they know everyone here or soon will. Threats to their survival in Canada are seriously looked at. Funny thing is that we bankroll their illegal activities.
378Canuck;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope this finds you well.
Because of some of my contacts in various LE agencies here in Canada, I take it as a given that comments made here or anywhere on the 'net are being scrutinized.
As I've been both a CORE instructor for over 21 years and now although currently inactive was a PAL instructor for years too. That and a couple other activities in my life meant that I'd be open for constant scrutiny.
The last time I was renewing my Restricted/Prohib PAL I mentioned to the good folks at head office that the interview part of my application was redundant as they'd know if I'd sneezed and what caused it.
They said something about following procedures but did not say I was wrong.
Again though I'm happy to point out to them or anyone else for that matter that if Canadian gun owners involved in perfectly legal activities - that is the buying, selling and trading non-registered long guns between PAL possessing individuals - causes the always useless registry data to become even more obsolete, then that's just the way it is.
The honest people I know in LE agreed with me that it always was useless and incomplete data - which was used daily only because the system was automatically cued when information was sought from other sources.
For sure though 378, it's good to remind Canadians that even obtaining a PAL will put us on a "watch list" and although that's unmitigated horse manure in my view - a reminder now and then is a good thing.
The more of us that are aware of that reality then the better the chances are of some more folks doing something about it at some level whether municipal, provincial or federal.
Lastly although the RCMP would be disinclined to admit it - there can be no arguing that even on the municipal level there is an ability to guide the local detachments activities.
If the town council and mayor say that the local detachment gets a budget for 10 Constables when they've asked for 15 - they'll get what the council gives them for operating costs and wages.
Anyway I could go on, but hopefully most will get my point.
To be clear, I'm in no way anti LE in Canada at any level. All I want is for all agencies to enforce the law as it is written equally to all citizens and to be accountable when they do not.
Not much to ask really is it?
After all, as you say sir we are indeed bankrolling them 100%.
Have a good weekend 378Canuck and all the best this summer.
Regards,
Dwayne
Thanks Dwayne, Just passing the background checks for the PAL, might suggest the holders of said PAL are not in the habit of breaking many laws.
Course, that is not to say Big Brother is not watching.
Good Post, and right on. Well got some good news anyway from the draws. Got Bull moose and cow elk draw for Oct- Nov. Sure RCMP are out of line with many of their policies but its still better than the police in Africa. Can't even have rifles or handguns here. Only thing you can have is a shotgun.
While the Canadian police forces could and probably are monitoring this site and many others, how much importance are we as free Canadian citizens prepared to give to that monitoring?
For myself not much, I refuse to be frightened by the possibility of a "red serge knock" at the door. Those who may be intimidated by that possibility, only encourage further and more intrusive police monitoring.
I say, we just go ahead living our lives as we see fit, saying what we want to say when we want to say it on whatever forum we want use, and if any of us are in any way reprimanded by the government and/or the police forces that we pay for and are there to serve us, we mutually defend that persecuted individual as best we can.
Hopefully I am just being a bit of a "tin hat" here.
n007;
Good post sir - I hope that this finds you all well on this warm Sunday evening too by the way.
When I first began to wander onto forums I decided that I'd simply act and write as if I was actually there/here in person.
If I'd not say it to you on our back deck then I'd not say it here.
Folks that have met me can hopefully agree that how I post is the real me - we've talked on the phone if I recall correctly and then you know I struggle with brevity....
As far as what I'd say to any LEO that I know - they'd say I'd definitely state what I have here. Then again a couple of them are fellow "gun guys" and ALL of them know that I'm one and would expect nothing less from me.
Anyway sir, good post and thanks for doing so. Have a good summer n007.
Dwayne
Read a short article in our local paper yesterday stating that "most" of the firearms seized by the RCMP have now been returned to their owners.
The article went on to explain that about a third of them are still being held in police custody! The RCMP were doing a check of PAL's and if the owner was not able to produce a current possession and acquisition licence, the guns remained in police hands. But they did release some of those guns to the owners relatives who could produce the proper licence.
So it seems like a couple of things can be deduced from this. Police really were on a opportunistic mission to enforce firearms laws by stealing private property during an emergency.
And they have understood at least part of the message from an outraged public and the Alberta & Canadian governments to focus on more important matters.
All in all, this event reinforces my suspicion of our police in such matters.
No small part of the trouble is, to them it does seem to be an important matter.