I got a call from a fellow breeder of German Shorthair Pointers at the start of the week, it was something I never want to really hear about but we all experience losses no matter. It is just part of the big picture when you bred and raise dogs.

He told me he lost his best brood bitch and all of her puppies, which were almost weaned off of her. I listened to him explain the whole situation from start to finish and then asked some questions.

These pups would have been some outstanding bird dogs in the near future. The Bitch was out of national champion Ricky's Rollin Thunder.

Well my question to All of You is this: Now have any of you folks heard of a NEW VIRUS going around that kills puppies or bitches with puppies???

This puppies were given their shots and mother was up on her shots. This man did not take the pups to the VET, instead he administered an antibiotic himself and he thought the pups and mother were improving but they died one by one 4 or 5 days later.

Very sad to hear about something like that. What part of the country is he in? Did the symptoms look like anything he's seen or heard of before?
Haven't heard anything from the show ring or any of the kennel forums that I belong to.

The first question that comes to mind is what brand of vaccine was he using and where did he get it.

Tonk,

Did this guy have any of the puppies and/or the Bitch "Posted" (examined after death by a Vet for cause of death)

Administered an antibiotic himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????

For what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????

The antibiotic killed all the bacteria including the beneficial bacteria; which is critical to proper assimilation of nutrition. Probiotics should have been administered!

Never take a shotgun approach to antibiotics!!!!!!!

I could say much more, but it isn't nice.

However you can�t fix stupid!

A real shame�������.

There of course is Parvo, did he do Parvo test on them? Parvo, I am told can get in the ground & is a breeders worst nightmare. It can stay in ground for long time.

There is also a virus called Corona, which almost got Raider. I brought him home, stopped at Cabelas in Grand Island, NE. let him out to empty, was 8 weeks old. We think that is where he got Corona, it is not as lethal as Parvo (but can kill) but same symptoms. Time frame sounds similar.

Picked up on Saturday, next Friday he wouldn't eat started runny mucious stools but no blood, throwing up everything water included. Had to use syringe to get water, yougurt in him, throw it right back up. My vet was gone, fill in gave him shot to help with throw ups & anitbiotics.

Called my breeder which gave instructions on how to try to feed him, took back in next day, my vet was back, IV of fluids in his back under skin, Sunday little better in morning then started again, took him back in, vet put in catheter in leg & IV. He personaly took him home the next 3 days putting in IV & watching him. Was able to take him home on Thursday, no residuals fine now a year later.

The virus sluffs off the inner linings of the intestines which take about a week to grow back so they can process any food. It was really pretty close. None of the other pups or mother had any problems, so we know he picked it up after leaving kennel, agin Cabelas - think how many dogs are let out to empty there. All he had to do was sniff the droppings of a dog (carrier or sick) that had it & the residuals from the poop of the carrier can last over 6 months from what I read. So is probably always there.

Lesson is never let your new pup (I try not even now) to empty at any location where other dogs are let out, convience stores, truck stops, hotels, parks, Cabelas, always stop several blocks away or remote area where they won't be exposed. There is a time/window where even though they have shots, they are just coming off thier mothers colestreum that they are vurnerable.

All you old breeders probably already know this but for new guys, it might be new infromation.

To this case ? if the pups got it & mom cleaning up after them directly ingesting it could it have been strong enough to overide her shots? I am sure he wasn't givig IV fluids which was the only thing that saved Raider.

Gentlemen, the breeder & trainer in question lives North of Springfield, Missouri. He raises some very good German Shorthair Pointers and competes in local field trails as well.

The sad thing is that he did NOT take any of the pups in to the Vets office to find out just what did in fact cause there demise. I wish he would have but this old country boy that he could just give antibiotics and things would be OK.

I Questioned him for over an hour and took nots! I have a suspicion that it may have even resulted from the dog food the breeder feed those dogs. The reason being is that he ran out of dog food and went to a local dealer and purchased a NEW BAG of Dimond Puppy dog food. Nothing else had been feed those pups or mother but this new food.

I told him to take that food and have it tested but I don't know if that will happen or not. He figures the damage has been done already and his losses are his. Flash!!! I also found out that a 1.5 year old house dog, was also feed food out of the same bag and it also died. It was a small breed dog called a Mexican Chihuahua.

Was Diamond one of those that had the Chinese posion food? Maybe have been an old bag laying around that never was returned or thrown away? I read where on ther Fire where someone was using 2 brands of dog food & his got sick but didn't die, one of the 2 was one of the bad foods. He says if he had only fed the bad one he felt his would have died also. So he always feeds 2 different brands now for that reason.

I can't say I have ever heard real good things about Diamond, one person told me his dogs would not "take" during breedings & was foud to be Diamond. ?

I can't imagine ANYBODY loosing a bitch and entire litter over somekind of mystery occoruance and not doing EVERYTHING within thier power to isolate the cause. If for nothing more than to avoid, or at least reduce, the chances of it happening again...Sorry, that just makes no sence to me.....

This could very well be possible but I doubt it. The recall was over a year ago and dealers rotate their stock when it gets old. If there is another recall of any dogfood presently on the market, I would be the first to know.

I would still like to know more about his vaccination protocol.

This is just unreal. These are supposedly outstanding bird dog prospects and the guy who has them dieing can't be bothered to take them to a DVM??? Being fed third rate dog food with a history of problems???


Note to self until this person is named, any GSP breeder I do not personally know is an ass clown that hasn't got the sense to hold his freaking ears apart.

Self vaccination is entirely capable of being at the root oF things like this. Just a simple lack of refrigeration for a period in shipment ANYWHERE IN THE CHAIN OF CUSTODY could render the vaccines ineffective. Just dumping an antibiotic into a sick animal without knowing why you're doing it is not just irresponsible, it is unlikely to be effective, it's entirely capable of being harmful, and who ever gave him the antibiotics probably ought to be turned in to the state vet med board.

Tonk, you need better friends.

Sigy-36......I fed my dogs 3 different types of dog food and mix it by hand every day myself! Now when the Diamond Dog Food Company had problems and no one knew about such at the time, a man from Indianna called me to ask about our pups.

Now in the conversation of less than 5 minutes, I knew he was upset and breaking up on the phone. I asked the question,"Have you ever had a GSP dog before" He answered yes, one just died and the other is at the VETS being treated not expected to live.

This is how I myself found out about Diamond Dog Food and the tainted CORN problem first. I myself was given a bag of "Country Fair" made by a company Diamond owns in Thomasville Missouri, made with all chicken parts. I mixed that with the 3 other dog foods I had been feeding in the amount of 25percent.

The next day, I had 6 dogs that looked like their rectums had been slicked open with a knife. Their stools were a mound of blood, even though they were bright eyed and very responsive.
I called Diamond Co. They put me in touch with a VET in Columbia, MIssouri who was the spokes person for Diamond Co. now that this problem was growing larger by the hour.

I called my VET right away, as I thought to myself, someone may have given my dogs something. I did have a problem with some kids at a party a week before and they didn't like the man across the road and myself calling the police on them. They had parked their cars in my driveway and on his lawn. They were DRUNK!

Lucky for me my dogs were OK by the next day (I had set up a check every 3-hours) and the Vet said to watch them close, which I did and brought my #1 stud and #1 bitch dog up to the house. The VET who spoke for Diamond Co. wanted to know if I had run tests on all 6 of my dogs. I told her NO but I did contact my VET!!! The cost for running those tests would have run around $1,200 total. The lady Vet knew that fact and was trying to wiggle off the phone when I asked for the Attorney's number for Diamond & Co.Another way of beating around the buch about the corn problem and how it was only in South Carolina.

It in covered 23 figging states for a fact!!! The US Govn't got involved and Diamond tried to pull the wool over the consumers eyes period, by letting on in the beginning they had a couple of employees that had caused the entire problem. This was not so and a BIG LIE.........that is when the VET took over talking to the media and phone's that rang off the hook.

Miles-58, I did NOT call this breeder a friend whatsoever! Now lets get that part of my post understood real quick shall we.

Now because I do not wish to thrash the man for his lack of taking his dogs to the VET, is no reason for YOU to drop the hammer on those who bred German Shorthair Pointers understand.
I personally believe that you owe the rest of us responsible breeders and appology big time.

You know a guy who'd watch what you report as a quality brood bitch and a quality litter die without taking them to a DVM to find out what is killing them and you want want me to apologize for distrusting any GSP breeder I don't know????

WTF is the matter with your head/// Are you Fing crazy??? The guy dumps an antibiotic into the dogs and has no idea why and you won't name him???

What you are describing goes well beyond unfortunate. It goes well beyond incompetent. don't talk to me about distrusting any GSP breeder I do not personally know!

Miles I will admit I may have taken a few to many to the head in my day but I sure as blazes am not what you discribe understand mister. I'll leave it at that my man, since I don't wish to embark on a pissing contest with someone who doesn't know me from adam and by the way I raise some of the very best GSP dogs in the frigging breed.

I suppose it just goes back to my younthfull days and always wanting to being a winner winner!!! You are intitled to your opinion of that particular breeder I posted on but by all that is holy sir, You should keep your mouth shut about other GSP breeders just because you have never met them period.

Now If by some reason you wish to meet me and take out your verbal abuse eyeball to eyeball, I would be only to blessed happy to oblige you. However, I would be damn careful what I wished for, especially on the eve of Staint Patricks Day.
God Bless Ireland and it's people!!!

I don't think Miles made his comment in the manner that you are taking it(? )
Since you didn't elaborate on the specific breeder, then the actions of that ONE unknown breeder are being shadowed on any breeders that He (Miles) doesn't know personaly,... with yourself excluded because you are apparently conveying the events about someone else...
In fact, I am not sure that his comments would have even been breed specific except for the fact that You did mention GSP in your original post...
I could be wrong tho,...He may just not like the GSP as a breed nor anyone that raises them..

Me peronally I like em...

I ain't all about you jackass. If you had half the brains of tndrbstr, you'd your pull you head out of your ass and get your effing act together instead of posturing like a mindless fifteen year old.

Miles now it is brain power you want to tell me I don't have Jack!!! Now when it comes to pulling you head out of your rectum pal, YOU are indeed a true canidate by all means.

I think we have things under control at my place and by the way I certainly know I don't need your help one iota. I made my way and owe nobody a dime understand, got some outstanding GSP dogs too. Happy Saint Pat's Day folks!!!

Tonk, you're a poor excuse for for anything. I told you the first post wasn't about you. tndrbstr told you it wasn't You don't have the grace god gave rabbit turds to admit that and instead have to mouth off like a fifteen year old. What are you ?? Really fifteen or just an arrested development case with a narcissism problem?

Miles-58........YOU are a true blue JERK bud!!! You want to go around bashing GSP breeders because YOU don't know them. You are a piss poor excuse for being a socialized human being.

I havn't been 15 since 1958 Yo Yo!

Tonk, I have not heard anything of a virus or tainted food out there currently & pretty much keep up to date on these things via a large network of breeders across the country & been to several large events this year already.
Shame he didnt do a necropsy, at least he could rule out Parvo & watch for further outbreaks. No vaccine is 100%, so hard to say viral or outside cause. Do you know, by chance, if he vacc'd while the pups were still nursing???

Zodiakgsps..........This is very true of vaccines! Proper storage is a must always. Yes, it is a real shame that this happened but a bigger shame that one of those puppies was NOT taken to the VET'S office, so that a positive cause could have be given.

I know that this particular breeder has had a tuff time with money this past year but that still is NO Excuse! There are VETS out there what would have made some type of money arrangement with the man.

Even Vac's from vets are not 100% unfortunately. I have seen this before via grooming clients, dogs still contract Distemper/Parvo. Have also seen the vacs themselves kill dogs (Vaccine induced Hemalytic Anemia), all we can do is the best we can to keep our pets healthy.
I was just wondering if he vac'd while pups were nursing, it negates the vaccine (won't over-ride moms titers). Therefore, if mom got a virus, the pups would also. Meaning if he vacc'd at 6 weeks, let them nurse to 7, then they got sick at 8 weeks....they were not actually "covered" by the vaccine. Truely don't know as I don't know the exact details, just throwing it out there.

Zodiakgsps.........I don't really know just how he went about giving those pups, mother and the other house dog the Vac's!

I do know that I myself would have done things differently and that I would have gotten the actual cause of death from the Vet Hospital I use.

100% agree Tonk, I don't mess with sick babies!!

I asked my vet about this describing that the whole litter & breed female died, first thing he said was it sounds like something they ate, this before I even mentioned dog food & that another dog died that ate the same food. He said usually an illness, virus, doesn't kill all of them, usually one or some will survive an illness.

So Tonk do you still feed multiple feeds & have you always even before the Diamond posioning?

My experience with factory made dog food years ago, caused me a lot of concern when others long ago had problems in their kennels or pack of hounds etc.

So I decided that is was far better for the dogs I raise to be feed several types of good dog food, instead of just one type of dog food. I have not regretted doing so over the years. Yes, it takes a little more time to feed that way but it does have a plus side to one's efforts.

The purchase of a well bred puppy no matter what the breed, is the cheapest part of owning a good bird dog in my opinion. The food you spend your money on to raise that pup up to be a 2yr old and the money laid down for training put into that dog starts to add up to a good piece of change by the time one is finished. So now you have a $3000 dollar or more investment! I personally believe feeding several good dog foods is a very cheap insurance policy period.

Your feedingt several diffeerent foods is interestiing & certainly one worth Merit / consideration. Until the poisioning of recent I had just never thought about it, though I have changed several qualty brand in the past. Ukenueba puppy to Iams to Purina pro plan with my first dog Sig, all for various reasons. HAve settled on Purina Pro Plan puppy with Raider, He is almost 1 year old now ai will be switching to adult when puppy runs out.

If you dont mind, i would like your thoghts on your mixtue. If you dont want to post please pm to me.

Siggy-32, I raise all our puppies on a mixture of Purina Pro-Plan Chicken Puppy/ Black-Gold and Hunters Performance. I been doing so for several years now and my pups put on weight fast and look real good through the stages up to 12 months.

I personally am beginning to believe the other breeder got a hold of some bad dog food but I can not confirm that thought ok.

I don't have to worry about bad dog food....I feed mostly raw!!
What kibble they get is Taste of the Wild, a grain free. I feed enough kibble to keep them used to it for travelling, easier to take when I am at 2-3 day field trials or shows.

Tonk, thanks, do I dare presume once over a year to switch the Pro Plan chicken puppy to adult Pro Plan chicken?

Zodiakgsps, I have heard some about Raw, there was one gal who had a Drahthaar who said his eyes should be slanted with all the rice & vegetables she fed him. He was a very calm dog, which she claimed was the food vs. processed Bagged dog food. I suspect yours is more meat then what she talked about.

Siggy32, yes, mine get primarily meat. Beef heart, chicken necks,green tripe, I bring home all the scrap & blood-shot meat from the deer processors I work at in the fall also & large meaty knuckle bones -they have great teeth. They get an organ mix as well, this is combined with some oatmeal.
I do give some fruit & veggies....but mostly it is snacks or what they steal from the garden, they love frozen carrots for a treat in the summer.(I do give bananas)

[b]Short answer is YES. It is a new strain of Parvo which when tested for parvo may come back negative.[/b]
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=68412

Thanks. Dutch.

Good info there, thanks for the heads up.