Came across this Model 70 this morning thought some of you might be interested in a little eye candy.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/58/403/winchester-70-rifle-284-win
Darn, now that’s pretty cool. No idea if it is real or not but if I had the extra jingle I’d love to hunt and shoot it!
At 17k+ someone thought it is legit.
Steve Barnett sold a pre-64 Featherweight in 7x57 a while back.
Should have downloaded the pictures.
That’s pretty neat. I love the P64’s and the 7x57 has always been one of my wants. That 284 Featherweight is too darned cool though. I’d be the guy taking it hunting though... It’s too much of a sweet rifle to leave condemned to a dark safe.
Without a factory letter to document its provenance, I am highly skeptical of rare cataloged and any non-cataloged configuration firearm. There are plenty of counterfeit pre-'64 Winchesters out there waiting for a gullible buyer who has money and wants to believe the story. I believe that reputable sellers who handle rare guns should care enough to document provenance before offering them for sale. When supposedly knowledgeable gun people are offering rare guns without supporting documentation, I always ask myself why and what are they hiding.
...according to Rule's book, page 264: Reported Non-standard Chamberings, the .284Win was one the verified factory original calibers. Nearly all of the verified non-standard chamberings were in either the Standard Rifle or a Target rifle style. Featherweight ??
Without a factory letter to document its provenance, I am highly skeptical of rare cataloged and any non-cataloged configuration firearm. There are plenty of counterfeit pre-'64 Winchesters out there waiting for a gullible buyer who has money and wants to believe the story. I believe that reputable sellers who handle rare guns should care enough to document provenance before offering them for sale. When supposedly knowledgeable gun people are offering rare guns without supporting documentation, I always ask myself why and what are they hiding.
Very little (if any) documentation exists for almost all pre64 M70’s. VO’s and a few notable special order guns are the only exception’s.
Without rock solid documentation I wouldn't touch it. Ever since the person who bought out the old Winchester factory released the roll stamps there is no way I would trust un-cataloged guns. You also have to be very cautious buying M1903 and 03-A3 Springfields. The CMP sold a bunch of drill guns / receivers and people are rebuilding them without heat treating the previously welded areas. Counterfieting is at an all time high in every area. Too much technology and not enough morals!
[quote=Poconojack]
Never catalogued.
Without a factory letter to document its provenance, I am highly skeptical of rare cataloged and any non-cataloged configuration firearm. There are plenty of counterfeit pre-'64 Winchesters out there waiting for a gullible buyer who has money and wants to believe the story. I believe that reputable sellers who handle rare guns should care enough to document provenance before offering them for sale. When supposedly knowledgeable gun people are offering rare guns without supporting documentation, I always ask myself why and what are they hiding.
Very little (if any) documentation exists for almost all pre64 M70’s. VO’s and a few notable special order guns are the only exception’s.[/quo
In the absence of factory documentation, I'd want a letter from a recognized expert to validate that it is what it appears to be. A rare, highly collectable rifle in a non-cataloged configuration without any provenance raises red flags for me. The are probably as many unscrupulous people in the used gun business as there are in the used car business.
When I bought a rifle that was sold to me as having belonged to Larry Koller, I reached out to Larry's son, Paul, to seek confirmation that it truly was his father's property. Fortunately for me, Paul recognized the rifle and provided me with a signed letter attesting to its authenticity.
Steve Barnett seems to have an excellent reputation.
The fact that he sold the7x57 as original would be provenance in and of itself, no?
If I had that kinda dough I wouldn't sweat it, I'd buy the .284 put a red a pad on it and go hunting!
Steve Barnett seems to have an excellent reputation.
The fact that he sold the7x57 as original would be provenance in and of itself, no?
I've bought from and sold to Steve Barnett and Dave Riffle and would trust them not to knowingly sell counterfeits. But that still amounts to an "I think" rather than an "I know" IMO.
The two broad areas of problems nowadays concerning the pricey "rarities", real & perceived. Intrinsic, the gun itself as amply noted in this Thread. The external one, the often demonstrated willingness of buyers to acquire guns on the flimsiest of supporting evidence. Uncommon to rare big bucks 'pre' series Model 70 rifles sold nowadays, typically flowery written assertions, a few pix... and a prayer!
The inverse of "rarity as desirable"; rarity as increased odds of it being fake worthy! Caveat emptor, similar multiple!
Then too, what is "fake". At what point is a pre Win 70 "non-original"? Technically for instance, such as stock swap from like sub genre Model pre 70 rifles, 'drop in' achievable. Donor: Plain Jane rifle, common chamberings, standard model stock. Recipient: same Standard Model rifle, rare chambering for instance with (ugh) aftermarket pad. Swap alert! Potential screwdriver, instant "return to original"! Is it really? Of course not. Can even an expert tell, condition/era factors equal, typically not. Unethical, yes. Lucrative, you bet! Pinging on 'profit motive' factor as swap, 'no brainer'. The same thing with barrels, receivers, and most all components. Tech term, parts "fungible", aka swapable. As Winchester built these rifle postwar, ever increasing pressure for "fungible", less hand intensive labor generic 'fitment'. Experts, understand exactly what's swappable and those 'less ethical' swap the heck out of our Pre '64 genre Model 70 rifles!
As the 'tree falling in the forest with no one to 'hear'... So the stock deftly swapped by 'drop in', were no one able to discern... Another context, of the Super Grade genre, the are likely more factually non-factory original particularly in such as the prewar genre of non-bridge D&T, than originals! There, an "S" stamp under original barrels, more non-"S" stamped SG rifles today, than not! The rule, where there's high value, there's a faker!
I hope not too boring, this dissertation!
My take!
Best & Stay safe!
John
Without a factory letter to document its provenance, I am highly skeptical of rare cataloged and any non-cataloged configuration firearm. There are plenty of counterfeit pre-'64 Winchesters out there waiting for a gullible buyer who has money and wants to believe the story. I believe that reputable sellers who handle rare guns should care enough to document provenance before offering them for sale. When supposedly knowledgeable gun people are offering rare guns without supporting documentation, I always ask myself why and what are they hiding.
I wonder if it came out of Florida? Caveat emptor!
Around the rear sight dovetail on the 7MM there is what looks like a square or rectangular shaped, light discoloration. I’m no expert in 70’s, but is that normal or perhaps from picture taking?
Steve Barnett seems to have an excellent reputation.
The fact that he sold the7x57 as original would be provenance in and of itself, no?
Yep. If Barnett says it is, then it is..
I like the Pre-64 Fwt, but would want a shooter, have no desire for a collector.
If I started shooting a collector, it would become a high priced shooter. I’ll take mine after that initial depreciation.
DF
Don't know when Barnett supposedly said what, but he has been dead for several months.
A little ceracoat and some Krylon and that'd be a hunter.