Is H110 the undisputed velocity king in .357?
I ask because I'm working with a pair of revolvers, 5inch 627 and a 6inch 686. Velocities with 16.5 H110 and a 158 XTP are averaging 1184 fps and 1276 respectively.
I can live with the 6inch 686 at 1276 but sub 1200 fps out of a 5 inch barrel seems slow to me. According to Lyman #49, their max is 17.7 gr. H110, anyone been that high? Results? 1250 fps is sorta my goal for the 5inch 627.

I don’t own a chronograph but I’ve seen published data with 2400 that matches or beats h110.

13.5 of 2400 in .38 cases with a 358156 gets me 1300 fps out of a 4 inch model 66. Great load but the accuracy isn't there for me in the 627. Tough pill to swallow less powder getting more fps out of a shorter barrel.

try little gun max charge

Copy, I've a pound on hand, I'll give it a try, thanks.

Lil’gun will be very hard on the forcing cone. Freedom Arms has released warnings about using it in revolvers. I have tried lots of powders and always got stellar 357 Mag performance out of Accurate No. 9 with jacketed and cast, and 2400 with cast.

H-110 can work, but since I tend to run 4” revolvers a lot, found No. 9 to be better for me speed wise.

Mark in GA

I am only loading 15.0 grains of H110 in my .357 because my revolver is my old Model 66 K-Frame service gun, and I don't want to run it too hard. However, I am still getting 1170 fps with a 158 gr. XTP out of its 4-inch barrel. It's a conundrum that you are getting essentially the same velocity using 1.5 grains more in your longer barrels.

Odd.

H110 got the Ruger 357 Maximum scrapped from production.

For the OP.

Lil'Gun will give top velocities with low pressure in the .357.
Keep bullets on the heavy side.
Consult a Hodgdon manual and consult your chronograph thereafter.

Google "Why Ballisticians Get Grey"

cutting the top strap was the prob. that was not a big thing

Its not a big thing to burn pounds of Lil' Gun in a .357 revolver.

YMMV.

I load 14.5 gr/2400 in .357 cases, get about 1250 fps in a couple 6” guns, a 686-2 and a 27-2. Those are with 158 grain jacketed bullets, accurate and easy extraction.

I have to check my notes for chronographed speed. But a 158 gr lswc with 14.5 grs of 2400 is a serious load. It runs through 5+ inches of dry phone book like it's nothing, and sprays out confetti on the back side like a parade.

Found it. It was 14 6 grs of 2400 and 5 1/2" of phone book. 1406fps from a 4" GP100.. I dropped the charge to 14.5grs but didn't Chrono it. But it's my heavy carry load for that gun.

H110, according to everything I've read about it, & confirmed with my use of it is, it's at it's best at max loads with heavy for diameter bullets. Personally, I have little use for it otherwise.

Another powder might out perform H110 with a 150.

The different barrel lengths of the 2 revolvers not likely responsible for the big velocity diff. That is likely due to cylinder gap differences &/or bore smoothness. Cyl. gapiss a big player in revolver velocities.

I easily break the 1200 fps mark in a 4" with a 150 jacketed, using old, dirty, outdated 2400. Long live 2400!

I don’t know what bullet or weight you’re using.

Got up to 17.0 H110 yesterday with the 158 xtp. 5 inch 627. Velocity averaged 1209 fps (seems low) ES and SD were dick nothing. Went to 17.5 and velocities jumped up to nearly 1300, but ES and SD was all over the place. Cases fell out of the cylinder, no flat primers.
Might give AA # 9 a try.

I used that charge with the Lyman 358156GC bullets in a 6" Security Six, and got 1460fps. Somewhat more than Skeeter Skelton used to get out of his chosen 5" M-27s. It would shoot 1" groups at 25 yards, and I could hit a quart oil can at 125 yards 4 out of 6 shots most of the time. One helluva load, for sure. Never shot it with jacketed bullets, though. With that kind of accuracy and velocity, I'd have been an idiot to change.

Notice Accurate used 6” barrel

Not if you put enough H-110 in the case. Some revolvers don't pressure up as fast as others. I'd add powder until.the desired velocity is reached.

Win 296 rather than H110, but in an older Blackhawk, 17.5 grains under a 158 XTP/HP in WW brass with Fed 200 primers was the accuracy load. Absolutely clubbed the snot out of stuff, too. After the BH went down the road I used that load in a 10" TC Contender barrel .. shot very very well. It is one I keep far from my J-frame .357.

You might look at PowerPro 300 MP as well, seems to take about 1/2 grain more than H110/296 and produce a little more velocity per the load manual, haven't chronographed it. Did some accuracy work and in some instances it is pretty respectable. Blasty though. Not the solid "whack" of muzzle blast a stout 2400 load gives though, seems like nothing compares to that.

Good info thank you, I should re phrase my initial question. If H110 is slow in a particular revolver is there any powder that's going to be able to get me more velocity? Or do I just have a "slow" revolver? Guess nobody could really answer that, been doing this long enough to know that all guns are individuals. I'll go grab some Power Pro 300.

Last I knew H110 is W296 both of which I found to be crimp dependent for performance. Actually never liked either in 357 or 41 mag for top velocities. Accurate 9 works well but I still get 1200 with 158’s on a max load of Accurate 5 from a 4” gp100.

I thought I may try seating a little deeper and getting a bigger bite on the cannelure.

H-110/296 is my go to powder for top velocity. Works great when loaded top end as it should be. I always use a magnum primer with H-110/296

A friend is loading this load, "180 gr xtp at 1325 fps. Old 5 screw n frame with 8 inch barrel."

I'd say H-110/296 is working just fine

In my opinion, a slow revolver is probably what you've got going on. Maybe it's due the a little more generous barrel/cylinder gap or some other attribute...or maybe something else all together. But that's my opinion.

This is exactly what I was looking for, point of the question was if H110 can't get me velocity is anything else going to be worth trying, or is the revolver itself just slow?
Saw once in a Brian Pierce article that S&W used a process called ECM to cut the rifling and it is generally slower and more prone to leading.

Looks like 300-MP is worth trying.

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloa...;shellid=28&bulletid=38&bdid=970

I have 2 ea.S&W 29-2 both are 6 1/2" barrels cylinder leads are the same yet one is 50 to 80 FPS slower depending on the load.
. The slower revolver has a deeper wider forcing cone which doesn't allow it to pressure up as much therefore less velocity

The last thing I would fret over is a 50-100fps loss in velocity. Real world applications won't notice it anyway and there's more important things in life to worry about!

If what Alliant is showing (above) is true there's a bit more than 50-100 fps available.

Checking my notes, using a 4" S&W M-19 .357 with a 158 gr. XTP: using 16.7 gr. of H-110 & a CCI magnum primer, I get 1217 fps. Using 14.8 gr. of 2400 & a Winchester regular primer, I get 1208 fps. These are the two "go to" loads for me with these type bullets. You should get a bit better velocity with the longer barrel.

3" Ruger SP101 averaged 1150 fps with 158 gr XTP and 16.5 gr of H110.

5 shot group at 25 yards was around 1.5" with XS Big Dot front sight and a notched rear sight. My friend has a K6S with the Novak sights, I wish I could put those on this gun without machining work, it would be more fun for target shooting.

As it is it's a good backup gun or for bumming around the woods.

EDIT: The secret sauce might be that I apply a heavy roll crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp die. I have read that the heavy crimp helps achieve a more consistent and complete burn of the powder along with preventing crimp jump in this smaller frame revolver.

I've had great luck with lil gun in my 4.2" barrel sp 101. Easy 1200 fps using 180 grain swift a-frames. I stopped at 1200 fps over the chronograph, working up a load.

The fired cases using the lil gun handloads don't get stuck in 5 shot cylinder, like the buffalo bore 180 grain stuff, which they probably used a heavy load of h110

I dunno how much more velocity a feller might need, 1200 fps was enough to drive a 180 grain swift a-frame clear through the neck of a large bull moose. Bullet found against off-sife hide:

I was shooting my 6.5” Blackhawk yesterday and shot some rounds over a chronograph. I have two different loads. Five shots each.
158gr. XTP over 16 grains H110 - avg 1293 fps
158gr. Lead SWC over 6 grains Unique - avg 1085 fps

Nice.

Lil gun and 300 MP have smoother pressure curves than 110/296.

DF

And works better from shorter barrels. Also works better in below zero temps than h110. Doesn't even need a magnum primer like h110.

In the .22 K-Hornet, I like CCI 450 small rifle primers with Lil gun and 300 MP.

DF

I have loaded 15.8 gr. 2400 with 158 gr. Rem. JHP and CCI 550 primer for 1325 fps average in a 6" Security Six. But, have been loading recently the same bullet and primer with 17,0 gr. H110. haven't chronoed it yet. Killed a buck awhile back with that bullet and 15,5 gr. H110.

I ran Lil Gun for my Marlin loads, 15.5 or 16 - not sure off memory, but that sounds right, 158 JSP RP. 2050 on Chrony.

On that Moose, was that a handgun kill - or finishing shot? Just wondering, congrats! 1150 - 1200 will do alot with a good 158 or 180 class, assuming good construction.

When I was loading for a GP100 4" and 686 4", I ran alot of 110/296, extraction was often difficult in the Ruger, not sure if the cylinders were rougher, but I had them quite hot. It does seem like I ran some top end 2400 as well. Never had any issues with the 686, or other K-frame guns with extraction, but I may have been a bit 'ambitious' when I was loading the GP100. A gun I always wished Ruger would have made in 41 Rem mag.

Finishing shot. Yep. Then that same pistol shoots gobs of small game and pests like red squirrels using unique and fmj's. Doesn't even damage the meat/hide on something as small as a red squirrel.

Can't think if another hand gun cartridge more versatile.

That is definitely a versatile gun/loads you have indeed.

So what’s the straight scoop on lil gun? FA says it destroys their revolvers and I got it straight from Hodgdon that they have seen no evidence of such? It’s the one powder in all of this that gets me the numbers I’m looking for.

The issue with Lil'gun is flame cutting of the forcing cone. Mainer or other high volume Lilgun shooters have you experienced this?

I learn something every day........the 357 had a reputation for doing that with 125s in K-Frames, before LG

Nope, about 3 lbs of lil gun through my little trail gun shooting only 180 grain bullets. The flame cutting is an old wives tail.

Anyhow, it's a fkn ruger, so hopefully after a few more years, it'll rattle loose and I can toss it in the trash.

Mainer thanks for the info. Ruger guns have some issues but "after a few more years, it'll rattle loose" is not one of them. I suspect it will take more than a few more years before your handgun will be ready for the trash heap.

Two things happened in my world recently- I've taken a renewed interest in my .357 Magnum's, and I noticed that I have STUPID amounts of fast burning powder such as Clays, 700-X and Bullseye/IMR-Target. I carry a SA .357 a lot around the place doing chores, feeding the cows, etc., but rather than carry full-house, ear-splitting loads I typically carry a 158-173 gr. cast SWC running 1000 fps or so. So a few days ago I set about testing loads with IMR-Target, which is for all practical purposes Bullseye. 6.0 gr. of Target and a cast 158 gr. SWC netted 1140 fps from a 4 3/4" barrel, and that's still a full grain below max. Velocity from my 20" Rossi was well north of 1300 fps. I'm guessing were I to go to 7.0 grs. velocity in the revolver would probably be 1250-1300 fps. With the 173 gr. cast (358429) SWC, velocity was right at 1100 fps from the revolver and 1300 from the carbine.

I've never really seen the use in very slow powders in revolvers. I've loaded 2400 and H110 in my .357's, but found that I can get close to the same velocities with 50% lighter charges of Blue Dot.

I guess my point is- Why use all that slow burning powder for few if any gain in velocity when faster burning powders will do the same with lighter charges?

A fast burning powder will produce much higher pressures to produce the same velocities. That works okay if you are not after higher speeds. At high velocities you'll have excessive pressures.

Understood, but my point is, if one can get the same velocity with 10 grs. of Blue Dot (below max load)as with 17 gr. of H110, why use H110?