Well, with 17AH brass forming I eventually learned it did not take expensive form dies, did not need annealing, just a simple double ended neck die that sold for $30 at the time enough to get standard Hornet brass shooting 17AH. IOw after that simple die they are ready to load and hunt with. Not fully formed but easily accurate enough shot the first time to fireform them while hunting.

As I said range is the differance. I fully agree that hydrostatic shock plays a huge roll in knock down and out power on game. Shot placement can make up for some of the difference between them though. I cleanly took even coyotes and all the way down to small ground diggers with the 17HMR's at ranges sometimes most folks wouldn't seriously even try using them at. Note I said "sometimes", when the situation dictated it doing ADC for landowners. I knew what they could do, knew their ballistics and energy at ranges, but otherwise limited my shots to the ranges they were the most effective at for whatever the game shot was.

My #2 17HMR, a pretty solid 1/4-3/8 MOA rifle with all the upgrades I did to it before it was first shot.
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