Originally Posted by JoeBob
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As to the aircraft, remember that one of the most (if not THE most) successful jet fighter of all time, the F-4 Phantom served both the Navy and USAF very well, not to mention over two dozen air forces and the Royal Navy as well.


But not all the services had a hand in, or more accurately a finger in the pie, of its development. It was a Navy aircraft that the Air Force decided it liked. Even the Air Force versions still had the things like the heavy gear and the tail hook. It is easier to go from an aircraft developed for naval use to air force use than vice versa.

All the services getting involved in the initial development of an aircraft is a recipe for disaster.

The F-15 line is still open too. The best F-15s ever built are being sold to the Saudis and a few others right now. Upgrade the engines, the avionics, and add a few goodies like thrust vectoring and the F-15 would be the equal of the F-22 in most ways except stealth and have the advantage of being the most proven fighter air frame in service right now.


The F-15's being sold to the Saudi's are NOT the best. We see them a downgraded export version, and keep the best electronics and avionics for ourselves.

As for European Aircraft doing well in exercises vs. the F-22, you have to understand how those exercises were run. While I was in Japan, our F-16's would participate in exercises vs. the Japanese Mitsubishi F-1's. There is absolutely no comparison between the capabilities of these two aircraft, so in order to make the exercises "fair", The F-16's were prohibited from using their best radar and ECM capabilities, and were prohibited from using their afterburners. Today, Similar restrictions are places upon the F-22 during exercises, partially because we don't want uninvited spectators seeing their full capabilities.

As for a low-level mud fighter, we have one. It's called the F-16.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 11/21/14.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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