Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Battle flag uproar

Don't remember reading that Dan'l was there????

But I do know he died a citizen of Spain!

Sorry

Maybe it was davey crockett.
Or davey jones.
Or david bowie.

I cant be expected to remember everything.

I can guarantee you this could have been done at high noon on that campus full of Bolshies and nobody would have seen anything!

Flat amazing the sh&t that flows through folks' fingers from their hearts and out onto the 'net.

On this whole "why we fought the war" thing....

The Confederates were literate and educated folks and took pains to clearly elucidate exactly WHY they did what they did, in their own words, based upon reality as they experienced it.

First off there's Confed Veep's Alexander Stephen's "Cornerstone Speech" in which he clearly and carefully states that slavery was both the rock upon which the Confederate Constitution rested and the cause of secession in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Then there's five Confederate States' (collectively containing around 65% of the Southern Population) "Declaration of Causes of Secession" in which they spelled out their reasons for taking this momentous step.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

Slavery front and center in all of 'em.

Like I said, it ain't me saying this, it was THEM.

Bend, twist, recast, rephrase it all ya want.

Birdwatcher

People don't wanna believe the truth.

They want the truth to be what they believe.

That is a real gem isn't it...? Relegating other human beings to the status of "livestock". All some gotta do to justify abhorrent treatment of other human beings is to demonize em' first...just like the Nazi's did with the Jews and millions of others

The battle flag of the northern Va was used to make the flag easier to tell apart from the stars and stripes. It never flew at the confederate capitol and it wanst created until after the first manassas. I would bet that 90 percent or more of the CSA soldiers didnt own slaves, i kniw none of my family members did. What they did know was there was an invasion coming from the north and they would eithwr pick up arms or flee. Check shermans march to the sea or my ggg grandfathers older brother was killed by yankees and he wasnt in the CSA.this flag was flown fornthe entire war on the uss columbia in ww2 and wasnthe first flag raised after the battle of okinawa.
My point is this flag hardly represents slavery and if so it does hardly more than the stars and stripes which also presided over indian massacres like wounded knee and also the trail of tears.... hey old glory, dont throw stones if you live in a glass house

im not aware of any jews fighting with hitler, however there were many black confederates...also there were no mass graves or gas chambers, so to draw any similarities with the csa and nazi germany is futile at best...many slaves remained with their people aftwr the war, where else would they go?
Us Grant himself was a slave owner, hypocrite
lincoln said he wouldve freed no slaves if it wouldve meant the war would end

Those 2 were really stroing in,their beliefs of emancipation LOL

I don't really have a dog in this fight since I'm from the West although I did have some relatives from the border states. Not sure which side they fought on.

It's hard to argue that slavery wasn't a key factor in secession. And slavery absolutely needed to be ended. Nevertheless, when you look at why individual confederates chose to fight I would imagine that defending their homeland was at the top of the list. The politicians and the wealthy were heavily invested in slavery, but average folks were likely responding to what they perceived as an invasion. So I can see why people look at the battle flag as part of their heritage. Not only that, but it was the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia and that was one hell of an army.

The fact is that different people perceive the battle flag differently. I'm sure most black people see it as a symbol of oppression which is understandable given its association with slavery and with segregationists in the 60's. And many white southerners see it as part of a proud heritage. The problem is that it's very difficult to reconcile these radically different viewpoints.

I think the battle flag is on its way out as something to display at state capitols. It simply won't be part of government displays going forward. Statues of the confederate generals are a whole different thing and I think it will be hard for the left to get rid of those. I certainly hope they don't succeed with that.

Exactly!

That's how most southerners felt when they voted state by state to secede, especially since more than 90 percent did not own slaves.

To help you out, its like having your taxes pay for abortions or sex alterations or for illegals to get welfare....or for folks who don't work to not have to.

Of course now tell us that the Northern states and enlistees knew they were signing up to free all the slaves and make them full citizens and your Civil War = all about slavery argument might have merit.

The North despised the Dred Scott fiasco and the South despised Federal intervention in determining slavery in states and territories.

People get pissed when their government is used as a weapon....

So the politicians said it?

See where that gets us these days?

No offense, learned one, all I can take is the conversations with Grandpa, about his kin that fought for the south.

They did not own slaves, its just that the revolution was too fresh in their mind and they didn't want anyone telling them what they could and could not do.

Seems they thought the items noted were "only the beginning".

Fancy that.

As far my mom's side (from Michigan) that fought for the north, they wondered why they were even involved in the thing.

I guess your scholarly view only appears in books and links noted, but the other non-literate and uneducated folks just talk about it at the dinner table.

But I suppose I am bending and recasting.

He's a Brit and a teacher, that's about as much dumbphuck as you can roll up into one.

Glad we have him to tell me the real reason why my folks did what they did.

To think, they wasted all that f'n time telling me about the good old days when they could have been working more and paying taxes.

I guess I know why I am such an idiot and a bad person. I am descended from all those evil idiots who went to war to fight for slavery even though they had no slaves. And one saintly and good idiot who went to war to end slavery even though his family owned 90 of them.

Thank goodness a guy from England knows enough to clue me in on it all.

Honestly, I'm okay with all governmental use of the flag going away. That flag is too damned good to be associated with any government we have around here these days. But the cultural genocide and equating it with the NAZIs is just [bleep] offensive. There are so many examples all of us could give to say why that wasn't true, but most of the biggest talkers aren't interested, even though the most vociferous defenders of the south will readily concede that slavery was a terrible wrong as an institution.

I'll say, the only flags the states should fly at present are the American and state flag.

To not sell at Civil War battlefields etc is a complete slap at history though.

As far as companies pulling it, their choice, as is my choice to never spend a dime with them.

To do all this 'knee jerk' type crap is crazy.