Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Battle flag uproar

Hey, whatever it takes to end slavery...

Well done

Now, the next questions:

What happened to those that were pro-Union in the South?

What happened to those that refused to enlist, on principle?

Birdwatcher

As you can see the south gave it all they had from a number standpoint.... Doesnt look like "MaNY" refused to enlist LOL

are we now arguing that the south didnt treat pro-union soldiers well? East Tennessee had alot of union supporters... Were they massacred?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMZfCar-Ks8

this was done probably by walt disney in the 50's, and is so politically incorrect in todays world it had to be posted.

If I were you I woulda had the grace to acknowledge where I got that, but hey, yer welcome anyway....



Never said it did of course, that being "twisting, spinning, miscasting" (or whatever it was you said) on your part.

Anyways here we was in our (literally) unwashed glory



Ya know, we got the strap for EVERYTHING.... sleeping, fidgeting, not having homework done, and like I said it HURT. But in that all-male setting ya learned early on that crying about it would get you no sympathy at all...

I dunno that I'd ever countenance my own son to be schooled in such a manner, but when you consider that close to one in five boys are nowadays diagnosed with some sort of acronym, for the apparent crime of being nothing more than a normal male, I'd choose the strap over medication for him in a heartbeat.



Well, at least ya got away from labeling me a "Brit"

But, having so gratuitously insulted the integrity of an entire people as you just did, I seriously doubt you yourself have the integrity to back it up with actual examples.

Hey, start a new thread on it if ya want, you can call it "Irish Catholic Revisionism".

Birdwatcher

Mike, in the 50's arizona was short of priests, so they imported a bunch of irish priest for the local parish's scattered around the state. Most are now deceased, or on retiring they went back to ireland. I have fond memories of them with grade school Sacred Heart, and two years of a catholic high school. Those nuns were wonderful people and a first class education, but they were tough. When the local priest couldn't handle it, there were always the jesuits at brophy Prep in phoenix that could be called in. Now they WERE tuff.

You could best illustrate that by pointing out anything I have written that was untrue or out of context.

What I find interesting in all of this is that before the war, Lincoln was all about limiting the power of the Federal Government re: the Corwin Amendment.

The sad truth is, if Lincoln had not been assassinated by that miserable little cabal immediately after the war, life in the post-war South would likely have been quite different, and memories less bitter.

Birdwatcher

Good point. America has not done well with the residual slime of assassinated presidents. LBJ come to mind.

Lincoln still gets a pass in modern history on his desire to deport blacks and start a colonization elsewhere....

he gets alot of passes because he had an epiphany and played politics with the "EP", he was ofr an amendment what wouldve made slavery the 13th amendment, yet that stil ldidnt pacify the south

no one is taught any of this because its not politically correct

I suspect that chart hasn't changed much.

Why the Confederate Flag made a 20th Century Comeback

Ya know, there's a fierce integrity to the Native Irish, that may be part pure stubbornness I dunno To that end I'm regarding the stand of the 69th New York before the Bloody Lane at Antietam as typical of the genre; standing in line, in the open, pouring buck and ball at close range from smoothbore muskets into rifle-armed opponents hidden behind cover, the few survivors then retiring in good order, colors and honor intact.

And speaking of the Irish Brigade, here's their monument at Gettysburg, truly remarkable not only for its day but even today, and created by an Irish sculptor who served in a Virginian (CSA) artillery unit from Bull Run clear to Appomattox, and who also fought at Gettysburg, on Seminary Ridge



Birdwatcher

I admit to being a bit of a softie with it comes to dogs, but damn -- that is a touching monument!

John

During the first half of the 20th century the Confederate flag enjoyed renewed popularity. During World War II some U.S. military units with Southern nicknames, or made up largely of Southerners, made the flag their unofficial emblem. The USS Columbia (CL-56) flew a Confederate Navy Ensign as a battle flag throughout combat in the South Pacific in World War II. This was done in honor of the ship's namesake, the capital city of South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union. Some soldiers carried Confederate flags into battle. After the Battle of Okinawa a Confederate flag was raised over Shuri Castle by a Marine from the self-styled "Rebel Company" (Company A of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines). It was visible for miles and was taken down after three days on the orders of General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate General Simon Buckner), who stated that it was inappropriate as "Americans from all over are involved in this battle". It was replaced with the flag of the United States.[15]

The use of the flag by soldiers came under investigation after some African-American soldiers filed complaints.[citation needed]. By the end of World War II, the use of the Confederate flag in the military was rare.[16] However, the Confederate flag continues to be flown in an unofficial manner by many soldiers. It was seen many times in Korea, Vietnam, and in the Middle East.

Great post.



Yep, and AFAIK Lincoln never budged off of that position, even if it meant war, which he was jumping through hoops to avoid.

The most telling thing is though, Southerners themselves were NOT excluded from the territories and hence the future of the United States at all, they just couldn't bring their slaves there is all.

Was it because they couldn't imagine a South without slavery?

Birdwatcher

No, as I explained it was because the South then as today, had a fundamentally different idea on what government was supposed to be and do. The South was opposed to mercantilism. Abraham Lincoln, a wealthy railroad lawyer intended to see his employers well looked after.

why did the EP not apply to all states?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h1549.html
The Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves in the United States. Rather, it declared free only those slaves living in states not under Union control. William Seward, Lincoln's secretary of state, commented, "We show our symapthy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free." Lincoln was fully aware of the irony, but he did not want to antagonize the slave states loyal to the Union by setting their slaves free.

The proclamation allowed black soldiers to fight for the Union -- soldiers that were desperately needed. It also tied the issue of slavery directly to the war.

You might ask instead if it was because they couldn't imagine a future where they were impoverished, powerless, and at the mercy of Northern financial and manufacturing interests because they had been stripped of their entire economic system. THAT is what an end to slavery meant to the South in 1860.

And indeed, that was absolutely the case right up until the 1960s in most areas of the South. Impoverished and powerless for a hundred years after the end of the war.

They couldn't imagine a Federal Government controlling every aspect of their lives, period.

And the sculptor was a stickler for accuracy, especially with regards to a breed so important in Irish legend....




"This, in the matter of size and structure, truthfully represents the Irish wolf-hound, a dog which has been extinct for more than a hundred years. – William Rudolph O’Donovan"

Birdwatcher