Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints Speed or Mass??

Wich causes most damage?

Say a 110grain V-max at 3000fps

or

55grain V-max at 3800fps.


Wich would do more damage from 0-400 yards?
Anybody experienced both?

It would depend on the target. Damage is subjective to what you shoot.

In the extreme, a 300 grain bullet at 2400 fps will do more damage to an elephant than a 55 grain bullet at 3800 fps.

But, the same 300 grain bullet will just make a small hole in a prairie dog while the 55 grain bullet will blow it into red, chunky rain.

In small targets, I think that the faster the bullet (as long as it is frangible) the more violent the reaction.

Yep Fjold has it right, define your target and we'll give you our thoughts.

Mark D

+1

Ohh.. the usual varmints you have in the states.

Rock chuck, prarie dogs, coyote, rabbits.. etc etc.

For these targets speed is a very violent experince........... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I prefer massive speed! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Very different targets you have there.

Prairie dogs, being similar to very small groundhogs, would be unlikely offer enough to expand a 110 gr. V-max, thus the lighter V-max would like cause the most damage.

On larger varmints, the larger, slightly tougher bullet would be the grenade.

Which just means you need two (or more) varmint rigs... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

VA, ive had 150 soft points out of a 303 Brit blow ground squirrels in half..............not sure if its the bullet opening or hydrostatic shock but range is usually 20 feet from muzzel to target <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

as the others say speed kills wonderfully for varmits................but my favorite ground squirrel rifle is a 45-70 with 405 grain hard cast but i hate being stuck to a bench and when your out walking the gophers tend to hold tight to their holes so i just hold on dirt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> red mist is cool but "bunker busting" has its entertainment value aswell

Not discounting that one bit...

Ya oughtta see what a 275 gr. HP/HB Maxi-Hunter does to groundhogs at 25 yards and about 2000 fps... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Regarding smaller targets, specifically prairie dogs and using bullets of similar construction, larger bullets generally provide the most entertaining results.

I'm a small caliber nut and all of my shooting is with 17 and 20 calibers, with much past experience with the various 22 cals, so my comparisons will be limited to those. I can say, for example, that a 50 grain V-max at 3300 fps out of a Deuce is considerably more dramatic than a 20 grain V-max at 4100 fps from a 17 Mach IV. The effect is just 'different'.

I took this to an extreme earlier this summer. I loaded the 15 grain Berger in my Sako A1 17 Mach IV to a velocity of 4700 fps. These little buggers were leaving the muzzle spinning at 376,000 rpm. This bullet has the approximate B.C. of a ping pong ball, and at ranges much over 150 yards, prairie dogs just sort of tipped over dead. But at close range, they kind of turned into a pile of raw meat without much drama or airtime. It was an interesting effect, much different than a larger, heavier bullet at much less velocity. The same cartridge with a 25 grain V-max at 3800 hits much harder and will give the occasional 'helicopter'.

I've also found the 20 calibers to be less dramatic than 22 calibers at similar weight and speed. Bullet diameter seems to play an important role in terminal effect. Small caliber, high velocity numbers are extremely effective, killing varmints stone dead. They just don't have the bullet diameter and mass to throw chunks everywhere.

Dan C

Ok.. so speed kills spectacular, or is it energy?

The 30cal V-max has 300ft/lbs of energy over the 55 grain V-max at 300 yards. 250ft/lbs at 400 yards.

But if it is like VAnimrod says, that a 110 V-max has difficulties opening on the smaller varmints, this case is moot.

"Speed or Mass??" ...


Both ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Speed over mass.....but explosive bullets with mass chosen according to animal....

Go shoot you some cottontails with a 243 Winnie using 65gr V-Max's over a full dose of powder...You won't have to worry about how your going to prepare them, lol........

OK. Took my 300 SAUM out for deer Saturday. I loaded up some 150 grn BST's doing 3275 fps. Near dark, I had an opportunity offhand shot at a jack rabbit at 75-80 yards. After I recovered from the recoil, I expected to see a red mass, but when I looked down I saw the rabbit doing the death kick, then lights out. My first thought was that I had hit in front of it, grenaded the thing, etc. I walked down and saw a nice little entry hole, roleld the rabbit over with my boot, and saw an exit wound was, well, just an exit wound, but not what I would have expected from the 150 BST. I have shot coyotes with this load, and litterally cut them nearly in half.
Now, same scenario 3 weeks ago, but this time with my 243 and 65grn V-Max at 3700 fps (like 7 08 said above). Major disruption of ol' Jack.

Both rabbits were just as dead, one just covered a little more area after the fact than the other.

a friend of mine discovered if he could hit a jack just right with Ballistic Tips out of his 270 Winny he could just about skin them. forget the exact load but the biggest piece of the jack you usually found was the hide off of its back <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

2Crow.....too much mass for the target animal using the 30cal...gotta match the mass to the animal and then chitt happens, such as it did with your 243, IMO....

Agreed.

I just found out that the 125 grain Speer TNT bullet has a BC of .33. This should also get 3000fps from a 30BR


This load has 500 ft/lbs more then the 22-250 at 400 yards. 600 more at 300 yards.


For those who dont know about it, the 30BR is top dog in Varmint for score right now, easily shooting in the .1-.2 with a good rifle. As I understand its also easier to tune then the 6ppc.

Also, match winning barrel life is well over 5000 rounds. Compared to a 6ppc at around 1000 rounds (info from benchrest.com)..perhaps more if you have good barrel. This is benchrest accuracy mind you. For a varmint hunter it should is well in execess of this number.


So, this sounds like a good bench(varmint)gun out to 3-400 yards. Atleast IF the 100-130 grain bullets will open up when fired at 3000fps. The Speer TNT atleast has a nice reputation from a 308, fired at 3200fps.

speed times mass is energy. the more quickly the energy is dissipated, the more devastating its effect.Can be dissipated by a expansive bullet design or by striking an object such as bone .First law of thermodynamics is the conservation of energyEnergy in acceleration is equal to the energy in the decelerration.Just depends on how quickly the bullet is stopped.