Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is the 325wsm compairable to the 338winmag? , what are the differences / similarities In the field?

TopCat,

From what I heard from people in the industry, the .325 WSM came about because Winchester couldn't match the ballistics of the .338 Winchester Magnum when using the WSM case. And they had claimed they could match .300 Winchester Magnum ballistics with the .300 WSM, which was true ONLY because the common SAAMI muzzle velocity with 180-grain bullets in the .300 Winchester at the time was only 2960 fps. (Since then there have been two other SAAMI-acceptable velocity levels created for the .300 Winchester Magnum, both higher.)

Winchester claimed that the .300 WSM was able to match the ballistics of the .300 Winchester Magnum due to the magic shape of the WSM case. This was BS. Nobody in any ballistics lab has ever found a smaller case that can match the velocities of a bigger case thanks to any magic case shape. Instead it was due to the somewhat wimpy .300 Winchester factory muzzle velocity.

But the Winchester publicity BS also forced them into a corner with the cartridge many shooters expected, a .338 WSM. They found the .338 WSM case could NOT match .338 Winchester Magnum velocities with 250-grain bullets, because the long bullets took up too much powder room. Also, due to the short magazine, many existing .338 bullets had to be seated too deep inside the .338 WSM case the ogive to remain outside the case neck.

So Winchester side-stepped the whole deal by claiming they'd developed a cartridge equal to the .338 Winchester Magnum using 8mm bullets. This also turned out to be BS, because the only factory-loaded bullet over 200 grains was a Power Point that didn't penetrate nearly as well as the premium 200-grainers also used in the .325. (I know this partly because a hunting companion brought a .325 WSM to South Africa for a month-long hunt I did in 2007. Within a few days his PH told me he had to switch to the .375 H&H he also brought along, with 300-grain Trophy Bonded Federal loads, because the 220 Power Point simply wasn't penetrating deeply enough on larger plains game animals like zebra.)

As a result the .325 turned out to basically be a .300 WSM with slightly fatter bullets, not a .338 with a wide range of bullet weights up to deep-penetrating 250's. And anybody who looked at the downrange ballistics found 180 and 200-grain .300 WSM loads caught up to the .325 180 and 200-grain loads within about 300-400 yards.

That doesn't mean the .325 doesn't work. It does, just like the .300 WSM, or any cartridge with 180-200 grain bullets of around .30 caliber at those velocities. But that doesn't mean it somehow matches the .338 Winchester Magnum, any more than the .300 WSM will match .300 Winchester Magnum muzzle velocities due its magic case shape.

John, excellent and honest answer.

Thanks!

I should also add that the case shape of the .300 does have one advantage: The short, wide powder column results in more consistent pressures and velocities than those of longer .300 magnums. This allows it to be loaded up to slightly higher average pressure, without the highest-velocity individual shots spiking too much above the average. It also tend to result in finer accuracy, but in the average factory rifle this isn't as evident as in custom rifles.

Why, especially never having owned a 325 WSM? Just curious and not trying to argue.

The 325 WSM is a good round, I see it working great for those who want a bit more power in something a bit off the beaten path. I was strongly considering buying another 325 WSM to replace a departed one but in the end chose another old friend in the 308 Norma Mag which will be completed this year. A 300 WSM or Win Mag would be more practical but neither would be as fun as either of the more obscure rounds. Along with the 325 WSM look carefully at the 35 Whelen or 9.3x62, both powerful rounds that don't kick too bad but kill well.....

The 308 Norma mag offers major cool factor that the other's don't. As for the 325 WSM, when they first came out Winchester claimed it would make the 300 win mag and 338 win mag obsolete because the 325 WSM shot just as flat as the 300 and had as much knock down energy as the 338 magnum. To me, it's just a short fat 8mm born with a lot of hype and sinking knee deep in bs....

Excellent post J...

Because I just like Hornady Interlocks, the idea of the 325WSM with the 195g Interlock just appeals to me. But having said all that, my 30-06 with the 180g version is almost as much gun and plenty for the mighty sambar IMO.

Oh Oh...you mentioned a metric on a 'murrican Shootin Forum!

It's amazing, the almost hatred for anything 8mm here. I like my 8 Mausers and combos; they kill just fine if one actually takes the time and energy and skill to work in on the game. That's a big part of hunting in my estimation.

Moving on to the 325 WSM I see the same people griping about it and mentioning it's an 8mm. Well...YEAH! It is. So what?

I've grown to like mine quite a bit, but I don't shoot much past 300 yards out of choice and respect for the quarry. A lot can go wrong between me and 300 yards with far greater possibilities after that. The 325 WSM is a good hard hitting round to that range and hits darned hard on in. If it's not your cup of tea, put away your lemons and move on. I particularly have an aversion to the 338. It smacks hard for something with bullets under .375-.410; I've had two and wondered why.

The 325WSM isn't a 338 and never will be. Winchester krappped in the nest on that round by alluding to it being almost a 338. I like it because it isn't a 338 and doesn't jolt me excessively, while it does hammer bigger animals well.

What's my favorite round and rifle? It's a 1936 Model 70 30-06 that is now a bit too heavy for me to cart up our mountains. My very light Kimber 325 WSM isn't too heavy, and it's proven to be my best all around hunting rifle for what, where, and how I now hunt.

I guess the 325WSM is the next generation's 264 Win Mag (or should I call it the 6.5mm Win Belted?).

I like them all to some degree and don't want to step on toes.

I don't understand the whole 8 mm hatred either, it is not a bad place to be when it comes to elk, moose and bear guns. Truth be told I like the 8x57 too and that will likely end up making an appearance in this household. There is one advantage the 325 has over the 300 WSM is in factory loads, the 300 tops out at 180's but the 325 goes up to 220 gr. I do realize some of the factory 220's aren't that good and it is debatable whether a 220 will kill better than a 180 gr 300 WSM load. The 200 gr factory 325 WSM loads are good though.

Should also mention I have bypassed the 338's as well preferring 30's on the smaller side and 358 on the other, bigger than 35 I just don't need anymore although they are great rounds for those who like to use them.

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Why, especially never having owned a 325 WSM? Just curious and not trying to argue. [/quote]


I suppose I've been sucked into the compact rifle marketing speal and the 325 is the biggest in the wsm range , I've falling in love with the 270wsm , I brought that because it gave quite an edge over the standard 270win especially with the heavier pills and it's lived upto the marketers claims I believe. I want a new rifle that will take me to the edge of comfort, shooting, carrying and hitting power, the 325 seemed like a good start to start asking questions .

I still don't buy into Winchesters claim on the 338WSM, I have one and after load development. I'm getting over 2850 with a 225gr accubond. Oh and the recoil in a Winchester model 70 featherweight is nothing just a big push.

You are the OP. It seems you are trying to ask our permission on something you've already decided upon. In the end, it's you that has to be happy. I went through the WSM craze/phase and eventually dumped them all and went back to the old tried and true. If you want a good all around cartridge that's going to get it done, check out the 30-06. It's been around for something like 109 years, so it has a pretty good track record... . If you are looking for something different and a little bigger, there's always the 338-06, 35 Whelen, and my favorite, the 9.3x62mm. The short fat case doesn't offer enough good to outweigh the bad as far as I'm concerned. You ask, "the bad"? They don't feed as well and you have less in the magazine over standard cartridges. Some even have a very hard time with a full magazine and getting 1 into the chamber (example: 3+1). I ended up just hunting with 3 rounds in the rifles. I had 2 Winchester model 70's that were that way. I also must add that in your response, "I've falling in love with the 270wsm , I brought that because it gave quite an edge over the standard 270win especially with the heavier pills and it's lived upto the marketers claims I believe", it seems like you are a very long range shooter? The average person will never notice such claims, until after about 500 yards. Up until that mark those 2 cartridges that you are comparing are like "2 peas in a pod". Coming from a person that has BTDT, buy the 325 WSM (you have your mind made up anyway) and report back after using it for a couple years. However, If you have never used standard cartridges, then you have no basis for a comparison though. For my type of hunting/use I got rid of the WSM's because they offered no benefit, and actually shorted me in more ways than 1...

I almost bought a 325 WSM several years ago; then I realized that my 30-06 (appropriately loaded) will do anything I ask of it or need. My investment in 30-06 dies and cases and rifles do not need to be replicated by an obsolescent cartridge.

Some one needs a hug... This argument can used for a lot of cartridges out their. Why get a 264 when you can get a 7 mag and shoot the same weight bullets in the 7 mag why get a 270 when you can get a 280 why get a 25-06 when you can get a 270 the list can go on forever. What sold me on the 325 WSM I saw how it performed on a big ol bull moose those 200gr accubonds mushroomed perfect man I was sold and went and bought one. But now I look at it 338 win mag do the same job. Sometimes we want something new to try out and it looses its lust real quick. For me the 325 still has a use to me.

I haven't made my mind up at all mate . There has been some good points brought up such as the 300wsm with heavier equalling hitting power in as little as 50 to 100 yards witch hasn't fallen on deaf ears , the 270wsm has roughly a 300fps edge over the 270win with a 150grain pill which is what I'd call a real difference and noticeable in the field. I've owned bog standard cals such as the 3006 and yes they do the job but I do like to be a little different from the pack at times I don't see anything wrong with that ??? I haven't experienced feedin trouble with the wsm I currently own and can live with a rifle that is a 3+1 but I'm also listening to these issues that are being raised , other options I am considering are the 35 sambar wildcat or maybe even the 375 ruger if I don't believe it to be a big enough step up in oomph ! , if I found the right rifle I could just go the 338 win mag but I've been there and want to try something new once more... I think your just being alittle presumptuous with your post...

Bigriver; I found the 195 grain hornady to be a little too "soft" at .325 wsm velocities when used in the 100-150 yard range, never shot anything with it close in but the results at the aforementioned distances in my mind relegated the 195 grain hornady to the 8x57s in the house. I have killed more game with the .325 than any other calibre, the .25-06 as second. I have had zero feeding issues with the .325.

As riflemen we live in glorious times there are so many opportunities to experiment and try different rifles and calibres. In a restaurant or pub one of my criteria for ordering beer, wine and food is "i haven't had it before". Sometimes experiments becomes favorites, others become I wont do that again. For me the .325 has become a favorite, the .280 AI an I won't do that again, the 6.5x55 and .260 rem are ongoing love affairs. These tend to be personal experiences that may be diametrically opposed to experiences of others. If we were all smart and practical we would have a .30-06, a 12 gauge and a .22 LR and nothing else. We would all drive F150s or Chevy Impalas or Toyota corollas. Where is the fun in that.

Bigriver; enjoy the search for your new "heavier rifle". There are always those driven by the extreme practical, there are some of us driven by hey that looks like fun.

I hope you have a glorious weekend. Happy Independence day to all in the US. GRF

Excellent response. I also have a 325wsm. Bought it as a combination birthday gift to myself, and a tribute to my Dad who hunted most of his life with an 8mm Mauser.
I am still experimenting with mine. So far one Mule deer buck killed with one 180gr TSX.
Complete pass through. Huge damage in boiler room. Zero tracking.
I am currently playing with the 200 gr. Accubond and 200 gr. TSX. Both are showing some promise, with a slight lead by the TSX. I have a great load for the 160gr. TTSX. Blazing speeds. Undecided as to what I'll take hunting this fall.
My rifle is a Winchester Extreme Weather. Great feeding. No issues at all.
Good Luck with whatever you choose!

As of now with my 325 WSM I use regular ol 200gr hot-cor with a max book load of IMR 4007 and I killed one nice caribou. I have a bunch 200gr tsx and 200gr partition's I need to work up a load using those but those 200gr speers shoot very well.