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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Thanks for the link. Can't type much more than this without the Campfire bogging down. Agree with his analysis of the prob, disagree strongly with his big gov solutions. Only took five min to type this m
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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What do you expect me to say? What ever you think. I just wanted to hear your view. Our media in America is fugged up. The interactive internet is all we have to learn from. "Radio Free America!",.....more or less,...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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as several folks have pointed out down through the years,
Socialism works until you run out of other people's money. Greece is out of money, and no, socialism did not work for them either.
Just wanting to keep the gravy train rolling, won't make it happen for the Greek people. Yep Greece is out of other people's money in Greece, and they just voted to continue their socialism with the money of other EU members. However, I think the Germans and Brits, are not very enthused by this prospect. Give it a month or so, Greece will be out of the Euro.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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However, I think the Germans and Brits, are not very enthused by this prospect. Give it a month or so, Greece will be out of the Euro.
I hope so, but I think the Germans face loosing too much cash just to let them walk away...The Greeks will use the No vote to call the bluff on the EU and try to re negotiate their debt.. As for us, the media and the politicians are underplaying the effect to the UK should Greece continue defaulting and leave the Euro... I suspect the average Brit is mainly viewing the crisis in terms of Greece being a popular package holiday destination...
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Campfire Ranger
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The others are in better shape than they were 5 years ago, They all (except for Italy, They had too much debt) took bailouts from the International Loan Sharks. Once you take the loan shark's poison pill, the future is set. Don't blame the banks, they didn't make the budgets and run up the debt.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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However, I think the Germans and Brits, are not very enthused by this prospect. Give it a month or so, Greece will be out of the Euro.
I hope so, but I think the Germans face loosing too much cash just to let them walk away...The Greeks will use the No vote to call the bluff on the EU and try to re negotiate their debt.. As for us, the media and the politicians are underplaying the effect to the UK should Greece continue defaulting and leave the Euro... I suspect the average Brit is mainly viewing the crisis in terms of Greece being a popular package holiday destination... Merkel can take half of Cypress as repayment.,,,
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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I suspect the average Brit is mainly viewing the crisis in terms of Greece being a popular package holiday destination...
When Greece pulls out of the Euro, Greece vacations will get a bunch cheaper for the rest of europe. You might have bring your own TP though  .
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid"
John Wayne
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The EU and the IMF should not have kept pouring money in to Greece for as long as they have..Greece has been on the financial life support machine far to too long, and somebody needs to switch it off..
As others have pointed out, the majority of Greeks are essentially Socialists, and I am absolutely fine with that as long as I, however indirectly, don't have continue to pay taxes to keep them in that life style..
I therefore hope this vote is the Greek public in effect pulling the plug themselves.. Pete. I'm going to disagree. They needed to prop of greece long enough to get the Greek debt of the balance sheets of the potential domino counties. Now that that's done, it's time for Greece to agree to pay the piper, or get cut off. Personally if I was at the World Bank (they are a better organization then the IMF) I wouldn't give them a dime until they actually passed, and had in place pension plan reforms.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Pete. I'm going to disagree. They needed to prop of greece long enough to get the Greek debt of the balance sheets of the potential domino counties. Now that that's done, it's time for Greece to agree to pay the piper, or get cut off.
Personally if I was at the World Bank (they are a better organization then the IMF) I wouldn't give them a dime until they actually passed, and had in place pension plan reforms.
They have been bailed and implemented reforms twice since 2010, they are done. I think your right about giving less secure financial institutions time to get greek bonds off of the balance sheet. I think the IMF owns most of the bonds, which are now worthless which they probably had planned for.
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid"
John Wayne
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I think the IMF owns most of the bonds, which are now worthless which they probably had planned for Norman, the IMF owns about 10% of the Greek debt. Most is actually owned by the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF). This is a large fund, backed by 14 European governments that raised this capital by issuing bonds. These bonds were purchased by the following investor classes: Commercial Banks: 39% Central Banks and governments : 30% Mutual funds/Hedge funds: 23% Pensions: 7% Other: 1% Most of the funding came from Euro denominated countries, only 2% came from the Americas. As for Pete, the UK and Switzerland combined kicked in 16% As for the value of these bonds, they continue to trade in the financial markets, however, they valued off the "full faith and credit" of the 14 guarantor nations, and not the prospects of Greece itself. As a result these instruments currently maintain a rating of AA-.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 07/05/15.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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can these folks really be this stupid? Liberals. Socialists. 'Nuff said. Sadly if our country were to undergone the same vote today, 61% would have reflected the socialist party values here too. I'm not so sure about 61%. Sadly about 50% would, however. Give it time...we'll get to 61% far too soon.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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All the money is just "printed" anyway.
Easy come, easy go. They'll just fire up the press and paper over the Greek loss.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Campfire Ranger
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If WE... ordinary U S Citizens... behave as if it don't make a rat's ass to us what happens in Europe.... we will turn it into a fact.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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[bleep] International Immobiliare. Michael Corleone knew...
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Next year might be a good time to plan a trip to the the Greek Isles. We can probably buy Corfu or Santorini with the loose change found under the sofa cushions.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I think the IMF owns most of the bonds, which are now worthless which they probably had planned for Norman, the IMF owns about 10% of the Greek debt. Most is actually owned by the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF). This is a large fund, backed by 14 European governments that raised this capital by issuing bonds. These bonds were purchased by the following investor classes: Commercial Banks: 39% Central Banks and governments : 30% Mutual funds/Hedge funds: 23% Pensions: 7% Other: 1% Most of the funding came from Euro denominated countries, only 2% came from the Americas. As for Pete, the UK and Switzerland combined kicked in 16% As for the value of these bonds, they continue to trade in the financial markets, however, they valued off the "full faith and credit" of the 14 guarantor nations, and not the prospects of Greece itself. As a result these instruments currently maintain a rating of AA-. In a technical sense your right. The issue at hand is if the rest of the EU will guarantee anymore Greek bonds, because in the rest of EU doesn't want to pay Greece's bills. At the end of the day it's the tax payer getting stuck with the bill. I can't blame the rest of europe, why should the German people pay for the Greece's poor fiscal choices.
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid"
John Wayne
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Campfire Ranger
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I think the IMF owns most of the bonds, which are now worthless which they probably had planned for Norman, the IMF owns about 10% of the Greek debt. Most is actually owned by the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF). This is a large fund, backed by 14 European governments that raised this capital by issuing bonds. These bonds were purchased by the following investor classes: Commercial Banks: 39% Central Banks and governments : 30% Mutual funds/Hedge funds: 23% Pensions: 7% Other: 1% Most of the funding came from Euro denominated countries, only 2% came from the Americas. As for Pete, the UK and Switzerland combined kicked in 16% As for the value of these bonds, they continue to trade in the financial markets, however, they valued off the "full faith and credit" of the 14 guarantor nations, and not the prospects of Greece itself. As a result these instruments currently maintain a rating of AA-. In a technical sense your right. The issue at hand is if the rest of the EU will guarantee anymore Greek bonds, because in the rest of EU doesn't want to pay Greece's bills. At the end of the day it's the tax payer getting stuck with the bill. I can't blame the rest of europe, why should the German people pay for the Greece's poor fiscal choices. You just nailed one of the biggest reasons exactly why people in various states in the U.S. want nothing more to do with this fallen republic.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Regular
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What is happening in Greece is what is happening in the large cities of the US, Which are dominated by unions and democrats. They keep thinking someone else will pay for all the entitlements and pensions. Sooner or later its going to dry up. Obama is on his way to make the US the same. He will have the ignorant controlling our destination.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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What is happening in Greece is what is happening in the large cities of the US, Which are dominated by unions and democrats. They keep thinking someone else will pay for all the entitlements and pensions. Sooner or later its going to dry up. Obama is on his way to make the US the same. He will have the ignorant controlling our destination. What happened in Greece is, its government went into debt from the International Loans Sharks in order to keep the people happy in order to maintain their cushy political positions. (and all the perks that went with them) Now, the International Loans Sharks are cashing in their chips and the Greek people have been left holding the bag.
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