im partial to the t/c pro hunter in 7mag recoil is not bad,flat shooter,knocks em out at long distance. never had a problem with a 160gr speer knockin them silly.
NECG makes a peep sight for the Ruger #1. All you do is get a #1 wih factory iron sights, then just tighten down the NECG peep. I'm thinking about getting one for my Ruger - I've talked to a few people that like the set-up. As far as your elk rifle - if you're lucky you can find a Ruger #1S out there - 7mag, 300 Win Mag., .338 Win. Mag, take your pick. If not, you can still order a #1A or #1RSI. Those come in 7x57, .270 Win. and 30/06. Those should do the trick as well.
If you want to go old timey authentic, it is hard to be a Sharps. Several people make them but Shiloh Sharps is one of the better ones. Took a nice Alaska Moose with mine last fall at 200 yards with a peep. Oh yeah, 45-70. Can say the Moose was impressed so believe it would work on Elk. TM
Some mornings, it just does not feel worth it to chew through the straps!~
[color:"brown"]The Ruger #1 is a very classy rifle... and it's available in any one of a good many cartridges that will take an elk as long as you do YOUR "job" and place the bullet where it belongs.
'Most all big game hunters have their individual "favorties" in an elk cartridge. Mine happens to be the .338 Winchester Magnum, but I'll be the first to admit that the cartridge has a fairly "stout" recoil... not a caliber for the faint-of-heart!
In my opinion (and who's else would it be since I'm writing this?!?), I'd say that smallest calibers I'd recommend (if you don't want the .338 Win. Mag.) would be a .270 Winchester, a 7x57 or a 7mm-08 and don't forget the .280 Remington and .300 Savage.
Naturally, any of the cartridges in the .30-06/.300 Win. Mag. class will get the job done as well, but recoil is "up" as is "hitting power" at the terminal end... and I'm including the 7mm Remington Magnum & the .270 & 7mm Weatherby magnums using a "heavy-for-caliber" bullets in this class rather than classing it down with the .270's, etc.
Any reasonably modern, bigger caliber throwing a 200 grain or heavier bullet (8mm Remington Magnum, .338/06, .338 Federal or Win. Mag., .35 Whelen, .358 Winchester, .358 Norma Magnum, .375 H&H Magnum, et.al.) will undoubtedly "waylay" the largest elk IF you can stand the recoil and still shoot it straight.
I'd say you have a pretty wide choice... so let us know what you choose, ok? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Good luck on your elk hunting trip... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Strength & Honor...
Ron T.
It's smart to hang around old guys 'cause they know lotsa stuff...
I think the K 1B in 7 STW fits the bill well. I do not know if you can still find a new one in the supply chain, but there are a few used ones floating around.
The B model does not come with sites, I'd cure that with an NECG dovetail mounted peep and a custom front blade like one of these from NECG. I have the NECG peep mounted on a 77 and am very happy with it.
I like the sourdough shown here.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
I agree the Ruger No. 1 is one of the classiest factory rifles going and it's available as you say in plenty of chamberings. If I have one complaint of the rifle it is that it is too heavy for much of the mountain hunting for elk IMO.
I'm not an expert on the design of single shots so saying the Dakota 10 is much lighter perhaps isn't fair. But it is.
Also, the Blaser K95 and the Merkel Stalking Rifle are Continental single shots of the break-open type; they are vary light and classy looking although considerably more expensive. The Blaser though has the additional capability having a another barrel fitted to the action (Blaser cert. gunsmith required) thus cutting the price of the rifle in half though it is still relatively high.
You could do worse than the Ruger No. 1 Medium Rifle in .45-70. It's relatively light and short compared to other No. 1 versions, plenty powerful, and adaptable to an aperture sight. I would have also suggested the same rifle in .405, but the Tropical Rifle is pretty heavy.
"You cannot miss fast enough to win."-- Ross Seyfried
It's a little heavier in the #1H, but it balances so nicely and shoots so straight, it is hard not to love the thing, and the 405 ought to put the stop on any elk if you hit 'em right proper.
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)
I'd ditto the 1A in .30-06. My 7X57 1A weighs 7 lbs. 13 oz with a Leupold 2-7 in Leupy mounts. Subtract the mounts and scope and it weighs well under 7 pounds which is a good bit lighter than most bolt actions with 22" barrels.
It is butt heavy and muzzle light, particularly without a scope, which makes it very fast handling. A 22" barrel gets all you need to get out of an '06, and IIRC at least one or two people have used the .30-06 satisfactorily on elk. If you don't like the .30-06 for religious or personal reasons then the 7X57 with has been known to kill a couple of elk occasionally as well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It doesn't kick much at all, either.
Finally, I think the 1A's are the second neatest looking of all the Ruger #1's and they discontinued all but one caliber in the 1S which was the neatest looking one of all.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
p.s. As far as centerfire rifles go, my recommendation would be for a Ruger #1 RSI or the light sporter in 30-06, with the NECG peep and front sight. Ruger's stock front sight is too short, I think, for the peep, but NECG sells replacement front sights at different heights. Good Luck!
The #1A in 30-06 would be my choice. The #1Bs are available in many calibers but they have more heft than I like and certainly more than I'd want to lug through steep terrain though that may not matter to you. I have two #1s, a #1B and a #1S (in 45-70). I just love to hunt with that #1S. It is so sweet handling, light, quick and handy. I sometimes use that rifle with the NECG aperture. My eyesight is suffering from age related focus issues so I found a blade front to fit the Ruger front base - NECG makes several versions for the Ruger sight base. It took a bit of work to fit it properly but it is an excellent and rugged sight. Took a nice brown bear with that 45-70 this fall at just under 250 yards. It was nice to have a rifle as quick handling as the smaller #1 for a needed follow-up shot.
There is no question that my next #1 will be a #1A and the most ideal all around caliber in that version is the 30-06, perhaps a bit boring, but that too reflects how well it works and shoots. Of course maybe you could get ahold of one of those limited run stainless/walnut #1Ss in 35 Whelen contracted to Lipsey's.
Dave, that is the rifle I got shortly after they dropped the price. It is the one I will be hunting deer with this year. The wood on mine is darker than that though. I am thinking about swapping wood off an older 1-A I have that is just gorgeous. The wood on this one isn't bad compared to a lot of the rugers I see now, but the wood on that other gun is something else.
I've got the 1885 Winchester in .325WSM. It's a bad Mammajamma and very effective on elk out to 300yards. Next to my Savage 99, it is my favorite rifle.
Personally I would stay away from the NEF rifles. I have owned three and every one of them has had problems. My newest is the 35 Whelen. After countless misfires with both factory ammo and reloads it went back to Marlin/H & R five weeks ago for the SECOND time(they failed to fix it the first time back in Aug.) Last I heard the service department had given up and sent the gun to the engineers to try and figure out what was going on. Out of almost two months of ownership in has been at the factory for 6 weeks total and counting.
I could go on and on about the NEF 30-30 and .22 and their problems but suffice to say that the best purpose of these guns is as tomato stakes. My advice is to stay away. You truly do get what you pay for.
You have a crystal ball or something, or do they just let you shoot EVERY new NEF, T/C Encore, and Ruger #1?
If none of the above, there is NO way you can say that an NEF will be more or less accurate than anything else.
Esp. give that NEFs traditionally have VERY heavily, not great otherwise, triggers, and no aftermarket accurizing possibilities. Something that the #1 certainly, and the Encore as well, have.
Having owned several of each, I've found that any of them can be made quite accurate, and of the three, for the use in question, I'd go with the #1 first, the Encore second, and the NEF third, for a host of reasons.
Not knocking the NEF, but they just aren't by and large on par with the Ruger or the T/C, and unless I want a truck gun or a bang-around varminter, the NEF is not my first single shot choice.
I have a Lyman Great Plains 54 cal roundball 0.530" over 80 gr of FFG that has taken 2 nice elk and the balls exited both times, including going through one shoulder blade.
I used to load 250-3000 Savage with 100 gr Speer bullets for a very old man and he never had any trouble taking his elk every year until he died and he didn't think he was undergunned, but he didn't try to shoot one over in the next county. 100 to 125 yds was far enough. I have a friend that uses a 257 Robers with 115 gr Nosler Parts and never thinks twice about it.
I don't think a 22 cal is appropriate, but that caliber has been used, I know from experience. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I think anything from 6mm up, WITH THE RIGHT BULLET AND PLACEMENT, has taken elk or elk sized animals for a very long time, when used within the confines of the calibers and shooters abilities.
I know from lots of forums that 338 Mag seems to be the favorite "goto" gun. I have a 338-06 I had build just for elk and used several times, but it depends on many factors which rifle I take.
People seem to go crazy over "which is the best...", this one or that one and never seem to be satisfied. Of course...I'm always experimenting with "something different", so I'm just as nuts. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I really just use whatever rifle I happen to be in love with at the time, although I'm really partial to 7mm cal and have used 7x57 up through 7mm RemMag, except 7mm-08 and I just haven't had a chance to use that one yet.
Bottom line is pick a rifle and caliber you can handle as far as recoil is concerned and be happy. Pick a bullet and learn how it performs. I use premium spitzers, no round noses, and don't try to shoot through the bushes. Just wait a bit until the target steps out to take a peek, then put the bullet in the right spot. If you've done your part in making your rifle and cartridge shoot as accurate as possible, you should be able to place the bullet anywhere you desire.
Understand what ballistic coefficient and sectional density means, then memorize the drop. You'll be well on your way to being a very good hunter. Remember the old saying, "Beware of the one gun hunter..."
Most "what's best..." questions are too simplistic and the answers never include "the rest of the story", and that's a pity because the rifle is really just one small part of the total. Consider how piddling an arrow is compared to a "rip roaring" 70umptygoshawfulljawbustingsupermagerfunklebanger. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Clearly you guys haven't been keeping up. Ruger are well known for being innacurate & the Encore is just hideous. The Handis will shoot sub-MOA and come from the factory with 3lb triggers. A bad NEF is very rare but I suppose it can happen. The Handis weigh nothing compared to the cast metal overbuilt Ruger.
"If what I say offends you, you should hear what I don't say."
Overbuilt is not a bad thing when you are dealing with 50 to 60 Thousand psi four inches from the end of your nose!
And I would be curious to learn of a manufacturing process which leads to a receiver superior to the Ruger (any model) in terms of metalurgy, strength, or design.
I have never been accused of being overly gifted with "artistic appreciation", but even I would hesitate to let the bears witness me carrying a handirifle in the hills when there is a perfectly good #1 in the safe at home. And that would still be true if you tied a couple of cannon balls to my #1 for additional weight.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
... Ruger are well known for being innacurate...The Handis weigh nothing compared to the cast metal overbuilt Ruger.
Man, you got that right. Freakin' Rugers will drive you up a wall. I have tried to get the one in the attachment to shoot straight for going on a year and a half now, all to no avail. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
Hoot, I used to tote a Ruger no. 1 in .375 H&H as a back-up on elk hunts in Colorado. It was heavy to carry, but shot well with the 270 gr loads I used. It would be pretty easy to put the NECG aperture on the rear, and use the factory front sight.
I think the .375 is a great elk cartridge too.
jim
LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.) "If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
You're beating a dead horse, because everyone knows those stinking pallet wood Handi Rifles aren't any good. Couldn't be any good, because they only cost $200. Anyone that has one ought to be horse whipped!
They need more than one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Especially when they, without a tinkered with trigger, will shoot as good as a, gasp, Ruger or Encore! Like this <3/4" .357 Mag (second one from the top) 100 yard 250 gr cast bullet group. It's even built on a shotgun frame!
I don't guess any of the ones I have will shoot over 1/1/4" groups at 100 yards, even with cast bullets, including the pallet wood shotgun framed .45-70 that's on top in the picture. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Here's the site that shows how to do a "trigger job" on the Handi at home.
The RMEF (Rocky Mountain Elk Fund) Handi in .35 Whelen is out of production, but now they're producing the one you linked to.
No one has missed anything about them, or the other singleshots, but most of us sure as helll know what each will and won't do and what they are and are not...
WTF... I never knew that there was NEF flavored Kool-Aid, but there obviously is and that stuff must be STRONG...
Just trying to get some folks to see that there are some great inexpensive products that you don't have to fix before they will shoot MOA groups. I can never figure out why folks will defend poor workmanship and poor accuracy just because they think a gun is pretty.
"If what I say offends you, you should hear what I don't say."
Well Swampman, you have to admit, there isn't any "snob appeal" to a $200 gun! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I suppose it might do damage to one's ego to have a converted shotgun shooting about as good as a high dollar gun.
Here's another "shotgun" Handi group.
I actually use .360 DW brass in my .357 Mag chamber, even though it hasn't been reamed. It isn't unusual to have a longer chamber in the pistol chamberings and it isn't unique to NEF. I sent some of these loads to Florida, to be successfully used in a T/C .357 Mag.
You sir, Are obviously a Scotsman... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Also, there is a difference between inexpensive and "cheap".
I once owned one in a .243 Win. very briefly. It was very accurate. However, it didn't cause me to sell any of my Ruger #1's. I'll not deny, that they fill a niche, But you can bet the farm that they're not cutting into the sales of Merkels and Blasers. (Or Ruger #1's, for that matter)
If I ever run across one in 7x64, I'll buy it in a heartbeat. But only as a vehicle to burn up all the 7x64 ammo I have lying around. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[color:"green"]Grasshopper [/color]
"As you walk thru life, don't be surprised that there are fewer people that you encounter seeking truth than those seeking confirmation of what they already believe!"
I'm glad you said that with a smile. I don't have a drop of Scottish blood in me, it's mostly German! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Since you didn't specify which you consider the Handi to be, inexpensive or cheap, I'll just have to assume it's inexpensive. Cheap would imply a lack of durability, shoddy materials and failure to perform to expected standards.
You admitted the Handi is accurate and the design is a proven one, dating back to the early '50s. The pallet wood stocks aren't the most beautiful ever produced, but they don't bend, spindle or come loose at the seams. I think that pretty well establishes inexpensive as the appropriate description.
If we're talking about being attractive, the Handi is certainly more appealing to the eye than a T/C, which happens to be dog ugly IMO.
In total sales, I suppose there isn't any contest for the Merkel or the Ruger approaching the volume of sales the Handi has in either H&R or NEF form.
So, I don't know what the point is in objecting to using a Handi rifle.
All of the groups I have posted of Handi groups have been shot with 3-9X Bushnell $29.95 scopes. I prefer the word frugal to cheap. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Folks are really missing the boat on these great little guns.
You do have to admit, however, that there is a significant amount of difference in the intrisic value of a NEF, or H&R, than a Ruger #1, Merkel, or Dakota 10.
[color:"green"] Grasshopper [/color]
"As you walk thru life, don't be surprised that there are fewer people that you encounter seeking truth than those seeking confirmation of what they already believe!"
Well, I ain't a rushin' out to sell my number one just so's I kin buy 5 NEF's, and I shore don't want no handgun calibres shooting inch groups at 100 yards. I had a model 27 S&W that would do just about that good off a rest.
My 405 will shoot full house factory 300 grainers at 2270 fps into under an inch at that range, and it ain't no lady's gun. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)
That wasn't good groups, just average ones I happened to have saved.
Did I tell you the .45-70 is made from pieces?
It began life as a shotgun and I bought a used barrel to go with some wood from another receiver. Then I mounted a $29.95 Bushnell 3-9X on it, but that's an expensive Bushnell. My first one cost $25, for a 2-8X 32 mm in 1965. Of course, the Rem M600 it went on only cost $75, brand new. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I know the Handi is chambered in .280 Rem at 60,000 psi, but I don't know if they go any higher than that.
I've shot a few 400s at 1900 fps out of my shotgun frame, but I don't make a practice of it. Shucks, a shotgun is only supposed to be SAAMI rated at 14,000 psi and I would imagine that 400 is a little over that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
BTW, did I mention that .45-70 cost me less than $200, including that high dollar scope?
Those are good groups, but would you use that load on elk? You're shooting light loads with a big bore and that's great, but my guess is that the original poster wants something he can put the hurt on an elk with, and one that he may have to push out to a couple hundred yards. A 45-70 will do that, but with the blue dot loads the trajectory would be a little like a rainbow, wouldn't it?
I have a 45-70 in the H&R Buffalo Classic, and for the price it is a fine rifle, and it shoots clover leafs with iron sights using factory 300 HP's. But unless the range was 100 yards or under, I wouldn't take it on a moose hunt. And with the 32" barrel on it, it would be a little cumbersome in the swamp.
I think the NEF is a good rifle, but it ain't a #1 or even an Encore. I am not fussy about the Encore either. Friends say they shoot well. To me, they're ugly, and a little light for the big stuff. But to each his own.
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)
Those little calibers are ok for southern deer that don't get over maybe 125lbs. Those calibers fill a niche that was already filled by the .243 and the .308. They were invented just to sell new rifles.
"If what I say offends you, you should hear what I don't say."
Yeah, sure. So I guess all those elk killed with the 7-08, or it's equivalent the 7x57, and all those moose killed with the 6.5x55 and/or it's ballistic twin the .260 just were too dumb to know that.
The 7-08 too small for anything other than 125 lbs. deer.
Many animals are taken with tools that are unsuitable, that doesn't make the tools suitable. Shoot them through the lungs, follow them long enough and you will find them. A Poor blood trail doesn't make finding them any easier. Some states allow dogs to be used in the search for wounded game. If you are gonna stunt hunt, have one handy.
"If what I say offends you, you should hear what I don't say."
You forgot the .270 Winchester. I said for small deer they are ok. Why not just use a .243 for little deer or a .308 for northern deer and elk because the recoil is the same but you get a lot better performance.
"If what I say offends you, you should hear what I don't say."
Swampman, You are joking I hope. Are you seriously suggesting that the 7m-08 and 260 Rem are only suitable for deer 125lbs and under? I will reserve the beatdown until I know whether you are serious.
Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.
Those little calibers are ok for southern deer that don't get over maybe 125lbs. Those calibers fill a niche that was already filled by the .243 and the .308. They were invented just to sell new rifles.
This is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen on the Campfire.
Have you ever used, or perhaps more properly ever seen, a 7/08 or a .260? There has never been a deer hatched that either of these cartridges cannot reduce to a pile of meat ready for the freezer.
Methinks you are either an impressionable young person who watches too many of the "Trophy" hunting programs on tv and/or reads too many of the corporate advertising bulletins that masquerade as "hunting publications" or your just an outright troll searching for yet another corner of cyberspace to pollute with mindless drivel.
HBB
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
Used them with poor results. Not so with the .308.
Please define poor results. If you can do well with a .308 then there is no plausible reason you can't do as equally well with the .260 or 7/08. Could it be an operator actuated issue?
HBB
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
Bell shot over 1000 elephants with the 275 Rigby . Ain't much I wouldn't hunt in NA with a 7-08mm and I value my hide much more than others do. And I do hunt "Northern" deer. I have seen them go over 250lbs but not with the regularity that some think.
My Handi is a 22" barrel, so it is pretty handy. It's pretty well conceded even 1000 fps with a 400+ gr bullet is more than sufficient for the task at hand. Even so, the 300 gr Rem HP I was using produces close to 1500 fps, so it would have a flatter trajectory than the 405 gr does.
The 405 gr is shooting 6" high at 50 yards, when zeroed at 100 yards. I don't think it is usable at too much longer range than 125 yards with a scope. A vernier sight would be a different situation.
The .30-06 or .35 Whelen in a Handi rifle would be very suitable for elk/moose/bear. The .280 or .270 would probably do the job just fine too.
Personally, I don't like the .308 case, even though I have a .243 Handi. I would prefer a 6mm Rem, but it isn't chambered in much any more.
With a single shot, there isn't a reason to use the short cases, other than preference.
These other guys are less diplomatic than I, but I would suggest that perhaps your results on one animal are a bit atypical?
First deer I ever shot with a .270 Win. was a picture perfect shot - middlin' sized mulie buck, 110 yards away, broadside, 1/3 up the body on the leg line, the Hornady 130 SP was found beautifully mushroomed under the skin on the far side - classic perfect bullet performance.
The deer fell down right away, then got back up and started walking away! I whanged away in my discombobulation and fired another 8 rounds, hitting it in the back of the lungs and other peripheral areas. It finally fell over but I still had to put a finisher in the heart from 6" away.
Were I to judge the .270 Winchester on that one episode I would conclude that it was the most piss poor mule deer caliber ever invented. However, about elventy gazillion other hunters seem to have contrary evidence, so I figured my first experience was a fluke.
Used to be a picture at Intermountain Arms in Meridian, ID of a 12 year old girl sitting on top of a dead moose she had killed. One shot with a 7mm-08 worked for her.
Not trying to argue with you, but suggesting that one data point does not make a good base for extrapolating a trend.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
Dead in 10 minutes, after 3 rounds through the heart lung area, 4th shot through the brain at point blank range.
Good results
Dead on the spot.
Staggering specificity.
Why, I can easily see how the 7-08... or was that the .260... and with that premium handload... or was it Federal factory fodder.... Remington perhaps.... could have been the reason for such colossal failure. Of course, shot placement had nothing to do with that... nor did proper bullet selection... or range...
Why, after such a singular incident it is so clear to me that it's the fault of either/both/neither of those rounds and bullets that I musta been a fool to think otherwise.
'Course your one f'k up vs. near on a dozen personal experiences otherwise, not to mention the dozens more I'm personally privy to, nor the hundreds more I have less than no reason to doubt cast more than a little doubt on your stellar recountation of a mindblowing singular occurrence.
Federal Factory Premium with 140 grain bullets.....I'll never use a 7mm-08 on an animal again.
But which bullet was it? Federal Premiums are loaded with several different styles. It might have been a bullet that was designed for heavier game than southern whitetails.
HBB
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
It was a PA whitetail. 140 grain Nosler Balistic Tip. I'm completely convinced the .260 and 7mm-08 are not worth a second look. The .243 is as good as the .260, and the .308 is better than the 7mm-08 with the same recoil.
"If what I say offends you, you should hear what I don't say."
There really seems to be something amiss here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
All four of those chamberings use the same case, the .308, as a basis. The only difference is the diameter of the bullet and a slight difference in case capacity. So, what's not to like about the .260 and 7mm-08? How can you like two and not the other two?
I don't really like any of them, but that's just personal preference and my way of saying I'd like a .30-06 or 7 x 57 based chambering better.
I will also heartily agree, it was probably a bullet issue, instead of a chambering issue. Try the Rem Core-Lokt, since you seem to like them, in a 7mm-08 and see if the results are different. It will probably change your whole outlook on the value of the 7mm-08! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Alright, so you had one bad experience with the 7-08, and have had zero experiences at all with the .260, or similar.
From exactly one experience, you are capable of making such a blanket statement?
If so, I'd have long ago made the same statement against both the .30-30 and the .30-06. However, I did not. Here's why.
As for the .30-30, it was a yearling doe that took 6 rounds through the heart lung area, and still ran about 1/4 mile. Now, that was my first experience with the .30-30; so I guess I could have just written it off. But, if it was so piss-poor, just how did millions of deer fall to it annually? I decided that it was based upon three things: one, she was really worked up (run by dogs), two, she was small bodied, thus didn't offer a heckuva lot of room for expansion, and three, the bullets were probably wrong for the job. Since then, I've stopped using 170 gr. SilverTips, and gone to the JHP loads (BIG difference). I also try not to shoot deer being run like that, and no more little ones. End results? The .30-30 is a definite deer round, and the sample of one was a fluke.
The .30-06 was strickly a bullet issue. The 220 gr. RN is not a deer bullet. Maybe moose or elk, but not deer. Switched from that to 150 gr. loads, and deer stopped running with pencil holes in and out, and started being DRT.
The .260 and 7-08 class rounds (7-08, 7x57, .280 factory loads, .270 Winchester, .260, 6.5x55, etc.) are not only fantastic deer rounds, but just about the best all-rounders for North America for someone who hunts deer-sized game with an occassional foray into larger ungulates (elk, moose).
How am I so confident of saying that? Those rounds did not get their deserved reputations based upon singular instances of kills (samples of one), but upon thousands of uses, annually, on just about everything in North America. If they were crap, we'd all know it. The simple fact is they just plain work. One experience where a single one of those rounds did not work for you, on one particular deer, exactly the way you wanted it to, does not changes facts.
A sample of one, does not refute a trend of millions.
My guess is that you shot that PA deer up close, and with a fast loaded Ballistic Tip offering. Lots of entry wound damage, not much penetration. BTs aren't designed for that; shoot it at 300 yards, and it's like DRT. The rapid expansion of that bullet was the problem, likely, not the round.
I once shot a deer with the .308. It ran off about 25 or 30 yards before it died....
I once shot a deer with the .30-40 Krag. It DRT'ed.
[color:"red"]Therefore, I deduce that the .30-40 Krag is a better deer caliber than the .308 Win. [/color]
The above is a true story!
"As you walk thru life, don't be surprised that there are fewer people that you encounter seeking truth than those seeking confirmation of what they already believe!"
Grass, swampman is just poking fun in a clumsy way. No one can find much difference between the calibers under discussion. I killed my first elk this year with a 6.5-06 and a 140 at around 2850fps. DRT and both front shoulders were broken.
I suspect that you have to jump up to the 30 magnums to see a terminal performance increase. The 6.5 lays closer to the wind and drops a bit less so it is easier to hit with, but the 180gr. 300's are pretty hard hitters.
Either (and all in between) kill well with good hits and perform about the same with poor hits.
The truth is that the best placed shot makes the round pretty irrelevant.
SS
No words of mine can hope to convey to you the ringing joy and hope embodied in that spontaneous yell: �The Americans are coming; at last they are coming!�
I The .243 is as good as the .260, and the .308 is better than the 7mm-08 with the same recoil.
Gents, what we have here is "Failure To Communicate"......
You might consider settling down and doing alot of reading and understanding, or consider finding another forum to roam..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
back to Elk calibers. Browning/Win made the Hi wall traditional hunter in .45-70, .405, and .45-90. It came with a nice tang sight. Not cheap, but a cool rifle.
If you might want a scope eventually, then a Ruger #1 is pretty hard to beat.
The deer that I have had to track the longest distance in my life was a doe shot by a friend with a 30-06 using an factory 180 grain bullet. I remember it was a Federal Premium, but can't remember the exact bullet. The deer was hit through both lungs. We tracked it for between 1/4 and 1/2 mile through hardwoods. We were lucky to find it. When we finally found the deer, it looked like it had been shot with a full metal jacket bullet.
That same day, I dispatched a nice doe with a 150 grain 300 Savage bullet. The doe took about 5 steps and fell over dead. From this one day's hunting experience, I would have to conclude that the 300 Savage is vastly superior to the 30-06 as a deer cartridge. However, I do not base my conclusions on one day's hunting experience. I dont think any reasonable person should.
Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.
I have begun to suspect that using "premium" bullets on soft game like deer is like cracking nuts with a sledge hammer. Cracks them dead, but finding the meat can be a problem.
I'll be hunting whitetails in a couple of weeks, with core-lokt bullets in a caliber than shall remain nameless. If elk was on the menu, I might have to use partitions.
An old dog don't run no trails, an old dog don't flush no quails, but he can still bury a bone.
I guess you're really gonna [bleep] when I post photos of a successful hunt with my 223.......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
badger
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
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