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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
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Look at the other variations between breeds: size, color, head size, horns, milk production, and on and on. All of these variations came about through genetic selection. Why would one think that breeders can't breed for cattle with more marbling or variation in taste? It's more difficult to do it that with other variants because you have to kill your subject to find out if it has the trait but it can still be done over time.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: May 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,285 Likes: 9 |
You can eat real Kobe in a few places in the US. There are one or two very high-end places in Lost Wages or Knee Jerk City that offer it. But beware the tab - real Kobe can run upwards of $200 a pound. Rink
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Regular
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I have eaten Kobe steaks in Tokyo. Nothing I have eaten in the States, compares with the flavor and texture of Kobe beef. This, exactly. +2 For those who haven't eaten genuine Kobe beef and are saying it's a fad, I'd like to suggest in the politest way possible that you don't know what you're talking about. It's really good.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
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Not saying it isn't different , but many here complaining beef is wayyyyyyyyy to high and this type is the top end so...........
I'll stick to my home grown angus , angus cross. It's been a leader in beef production for years, others have come and gone , kind of like a fad
Last edited by ldholton; 07/12/15.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,692 Likes: 23 |
I like the way angus and angus crosses sell on auction day...
If your heard isn't mostly black, you are leaving money on the table, in my opinion. (After years of seeing the market differences.)
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: May 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It's definitely a niche beef and expensive. Wagyu is not Kobe by any means, but since the Japanese won't export any live meat, it's a good subsitute of prime plus in the absence of the "real" thing.
That is, IF you go for that kind of cut.
There's a Wagyu ranch west of town here, all I could afford was the burger and only a couple pounds of that, but it grilled really well. Left it pretty pink, came out nice. Should go get some more.
Up hills slow,
Down hills fast
Tonnage first and
Safety last.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,055
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I posted a thread on this awhile back
http://www.costco.com/D’Artagnan-Japanese-Wagyu-Boneless-Ribeye-Roast-A-5-Grade.product.100082950.html
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/10000506/Searchpage/1/Main/694518/Words/+beef+meat/Search/true/Man,_what_a_beautiful_piece_of#Post10000506
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
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IMO the whole thing about this breed or that breed is mol bs, pardon the pun. What exactly did you mean to write here?
Montana MOFO
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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IMO the whole thing about this breed or that breed is mol bs, pardon the pun. What exactly did you mean to write here? guessing he hasnt been around cattle....gotta buddy that raises a few longhorns along side angus....hell of a difference between the two out of the same pasture/same raising....the longhorns get turned in to lean burger and nothing else, angus butchered for steaks and such like normal....the longhorns with every scrap turned into burger comes out over 97% lean.....the breed has no fat even when raised on good forage....course ive actually bought both off him instead of guessing but what do i know... there is a difference between breeds....whole lot of breeds dont have alot of difference between them but there are extreme ends to the scale....
Last edited by rattler; 07/12/15.
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
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Thank you....but I'll stick with beef grown up around Hell's Gap, Wyoming!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
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The first cow I ever had was a Holstein steer. Funny, loveable critter, the steaks were better than store bought, but I ended up with more hamburger than an Angus or Hereford gives I guess because the Holsteins are so leggy. As far as meat quality, I don't remember any difference between the Angus and the Hereford.
The Herefords were not as spooky as the Angus temperament-wise.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
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I like the way angus and angus crosses sell on auction day...
If your heard isn't mostly black, you are leaving money on the table, in my opinion. (After years of seeing the market differences.) Exactly. Bottom-line...literally.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,110 |
The Herefords were not as spooky as the Angus temperament-wise. Not sure what time line you are talking of, but the Angus of my youth are not the same as present day Angus. Back then about 7-800 lbs was as big as they got. Most people used them as crosses to breed heifers with. Now they are big SOB's. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
chain of custody seems to be creeping into the discussion. without knowing all about the product, it's origin, and distribution how is a consumer to know if it's truly Wagyu beef. trust seems to go a long way.
I've heard that back in the day sometimes onions would show up in Vidalia packaging. but, were they "true" Vidalia onions? don't have a clue.
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I would like try a Wagyu steak. I feed out around a dozen angus each year and sell them all to friends /neighbors. A small amount of grain and free choice hay /pasture until 120 days before slaughter and then turn on the corn faucet gradually until they get all they want until the end. Provide lots of shade and fly control. People go nuts over the meat quality and all buy again. Local locker comes to my place to dispatch, gut and skin. No added stress caused by loading, hauling and standing around at the slaughter facility. Darn fine beef .
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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there's more than one beef grower feeding the local retail market selling grass-fed beef as so much better and flavorful than feedlot beef. they want and expect a price differential for the improved grass-fed product.
I don't know where "organic" fits into any of this. but if it's better it should cost more. right?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,930 Likes: 12 |
March 2013 1 AM I found a newborn heifer calf, -10F.
Hot box until morning and she lived. Lost 3/4 tail, 1/2 her ears and the tip of her nose. Tips of her feet didn't freeze too bad and she gets around 90% of 'normal'.
Sales ring dockage would be 1/2 price so we kept her.
She might weigh 900 lbs, been out on grass for a month and haven't looked lately but I bet she slicked off nice.....
Pretty much organic I guess.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,110 |
I like the way angus and angus crosses sell on auction day...
I haven't been going to sales in a long time but back in the 1980's white calves sold best here. Charolais or their crosses. That was before all the advertisements for Angus everywhere. I figure the ads is what drove the market for them up, not the taste. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,486
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I recently had a farm-to-fork restaurant meal centered around a cut of F1 Wagyu ribeye. (For those unfamiliar with the term F1, that's a 50/50 hybrid Japanese-type Wagyu cow with another, such as Black Angus).
The steak was delicious and superbly cooked and when I got home I started Googling Wagyu beef and got ... nowhere, really. There's a lot of fluff and BS, but little information of real substance so far as I can see.
A conversation with a local independent butcher of excellent repute led me even further down the rabbit hole. He sometimes carries F1 that he gets from a place other than the farm where my meal had been sourced and when I asked him about various growers and their bona fides, part of his response was "Everybody lies."
What do you cattlemen on the 'Fire know about the subject?
ok, let's go back to friar Mendelson and his peas in the 14-1500s. organic beings live in generations. Wagyu beef is a specific breed of beef cattle from Japan that are, in a society almost devoid of commercial beef for the masses, exceptional in many ways for their delicious meat. an F1 generation of any organism, bipedal, quadripedal, plant life, any organism requiring male and female parents is thus: if you breed Charolais bulls with Hereford heifers, the thing you get besides hip-locked Herefords in parturition (calf-bearing) is an F1 generation. F1 is the first generation progeny from two previously pure bloodlines. That being said, Obammy is an F1 President. Cross a Brahman bull and a hereford cow, the resultant calf is an F1. Typically F1 organisms exhibit "hybrid vigor", please see the aforementioned Belgian monk's writings to confirm his observation of this phenomena. Igor Mendelssohn? I think? Wagyu cattle are normally raised in extremely loving environments. Hand raised, fed breakfast, lunch and dinner on a daily basis. Normally they are all given names and have their birthdays celebrated by their owners. These are typically not Texas Ranch Cattle. I believe some of them are bathed in plum wine regularly. When they sell for slaughter, they bring STUPID money. I have never had Wagyu beef behind my teeth, knowingly. I would tell you that if someone is bragging to you about having F1 Wagyu beef he is depending on your ignorance of 700 +/- years of selective breeding in order to achieve a specific trait in a species. In other words, he's a bull shooter. Breed a full blood Lab to a full blood GSD? F1 cross. Hybrid vigor is real. Most, if not all of our cattle are F1 crossbred momma cows. They graze in the heat, can whip a coyote's ass defending their calves, are for the most part very gentle around old men marshaling them around during separation and selling times... The ribeye cut is always tender. I'm not sure a ribeye from an Angus and one from a Wagyu could be differentiated by any but Anthony Bourdain hisself. What he's telling you from Behind the Green Curtain is: It Ain't authentic Wagyu beef. Also, if your butcher is so good, why he's on unstable ground with F1 genetics is puzzling. Perhaps he sells a lotta beef with this guy's words. All the beef from our ranch, almost, is raised by F1 cattle, the calves are typically F2 crosses. They do well in most Texas weather, are sturdy and do well in feedlots. Typically they don't fight or get aggressive with other animals. If it's F1 anything, it ain't purebred. Wagyu meat has been cultured for umpteen generations to have specific traits in the feedlot, on the hanger, and on the grill in a country that eats 10 fish meals to every beef meal, and only that on special occasion. do some reading on mendelsson and his peas. he did a whole lot of science in genetics before it was accepted by the community that genetics existed.
Wag More. Bark Less.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
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I recently had a farm-to-fork restaurant meal centered around a cut of F1 Wagyu ribeye. (For those unfamiliar with the term F1, that's a 50/50 hybrid Japanese-type Wagyu cow with another, such as Black Angus).
The steak was delicious and superbly cooked and when I got home I started Googling Wagyu beef and got ... nowhere, really. There's a lot of fluff and BS, but little information of real substance so far as I can see.
A conversation with a local independent butcher of excellent repute led me even further down the rabbit hole. He sometimes carries F1 that he gets from a place other than the farm where my meal had been sourced and when I asked him about various growers and their bona fides, part of his response was "Everybody lies."
What do you cattlemen on the 'Fire know about the subject?
ok, let's go back to friar Mendelson and his peas in the 14-1500s. organic beings live in generations. Wagyu beef is a specific breed of beef cattle from Japan that are, in a society almost devoid of commercial beef for the masses, exceptional in many ways for their delicious meat. an F1 generation of any organism, bipedal, quadripedal, plant life, any organism requiring male and female parents is thus: if you breed Charolais bulls with Hereford heifers, the thing you get besides hip-locked Herefords in parturition (calf-bearing) is an F1 generation. F1 is the first generation progeny from two previously pure bloodlines. That being said, Obammy is an F1 President. Cross a Brahman bull and a hereford cow, the resultant calf is an F1. Typically F1 organisms exhibit "hybrid vigor", please see the aforementioned Belgian monk's writings to confirm his observation of this phenomena. Igor Mendelssohn? I think? Wagyu cattle are normally raised in extremely loving environments. Hand raised, fed breakfast, lunch and dinner on a daily basis. Normally they are all given names and have their birthdays celebrated by their owners. These are typically not Texas Ranch Cattle. I believe some of them are bathed in plum wine regularly. When they sell for slaughter, they bring STUPID money. I have never had Wagyu beef behind my teeth, knowingly. I would tell you that if someone is bragging to you about having F1 Wagyu beef he is depending on your ignorance of 700 +/- years of selective breeding in order to achieve a specific trait in a species. In other words, he's a bull shooter. Breed a full blood Lab to a full blood GSD? F1 cross. Hybrid vigor is real. Most, if not all of our cattle are F1 crossbred momma cows. They graze in the heat, can whip a coyote's ass defending their calves, are for the most part very gentle around old men marshaling them around during separation and selling times... The ribeye cut is always tender. I'm not sure a ribeye from an Angus and one from a Wagyu could be differentiated by any but Anthony Bourdain hisself. What he's telling you from Behind the Green Curtain is: It Ain't authentic Wagyu beef. Also, if your butcher is so good, why he's on unstable ground with F1 genetics is puzzling. Perhaps he sells a lotta beef with this guy's words. All the beef from our ranch, almost, is raised by F1 cattle, the calves are typically F2 crosses. They do well in most Texas weather, are sturdy and do well in feedlots. Typically they don't fight or get aggressive with other animals. If it's F1 anything, it ain't purebred. Wagyu meat has been cultured for umpteen generations to have specific traits in the feedlot, on the hanger, and on the grill in a country that eats 10 fish meals to every beef meal, and only that on special occasion. do some reading on mendelsson and his peas. he did a whole lot of science in genetics before it was accepted by the community that genetics existed. Guessing their reference to F1 Wagyu, was meant to indicate it was wagyu semen in a non-wagyu cow. By absolute definition, most likely the meat eaten was not a result of a purebred cow being bred to a purebred wagyu. With that said, I assure you, the difference in a wagyu sired animal versus most any other breed you could name is very obvious, down to the flavor, if the meat isn't over cooked and dried out. I've seen wagyu calves at weaning that had enough marbling to be small 50-90. That would equate to mid to almost high-choice for a weaned calf.
Last edited by Tarkio; 07/16/15.
Montana MOFO
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