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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
Ike understood that very well as his force build-up got rolling.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,118 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,118 Likes: 3 |
Soviet merchant vessels loading up with sugar (and I'm sure cigars) in Cuba Yes, and for a while we slipped a fungus in the hold so that when the cargo ship reached its destination, the hold was full of useless goo. They caught us at it, sued, the case was heard in secret, and they won.
Be not weary in well doing.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8 |
WV voted against secession, too. VA let them go.
Virginia had no choice, West Virginia, largely separated as it was by mountains from Virginia proper, was occupied early on by Union troops and Confederate attempts to retake it were unsuccessful.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_in_the_American_Civil_WarAs for the Constitutionality of the move, an interesting paradox. The US Constitution required that Virginia consent, but Virginia had already seceded, so a provisional government was formed from Unionist residents to give consent. I seriously doubt that Virginia ever formally recognised the loss of West Virginia under the Confederacy. Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8 |
Keep betting on Jackson, whilst Jefferson lies there in counter, and your true colors become ever more apparent. Interesting thing about Jackson, he was otherwise as anti-Federalist as anyone. If money is really the root of politics and power, Jackson actually took apart and terminated the centralized government Bank of the US and handed the funds, hence control, over to the States. Part of where Jackson screwed up is insisting on a return to silver and gold for real estate transactions, creating economic chaos for which his successor in office Van Buren took the fall. Quite apart from politics, an interesting thing about Jefferson is that he took up with his mixed-blood slave mistress only after his wife's death when he was in his forties, the girl was fourteen at the time. Very possibly she loved him, and he her. Being his mistress was probably the very best deal she could get in life in that time and place. Reportedly he had promised at the outset to free her and their children, which he eventually did. The surreal thing is that some of their children were named according to the wishes of Jefferson's friends, which seems to indicate the relationship was not entirely hidden from Jefferson's social circle. After being freed at least two of the Jefferson children moved north to Ohio, where one was able to live as a White and even IIRC marry a White woman. Whatever his feeling on the issue, Jefferson never did free many of his 100+ slaves, he couldn't afford the catastrophic loss of capital that would represent. After his death some 130 slaves (??IIRC) were sold off to pay accmulated debts owed against his estate. All corrections accepted. Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530 |
Several of those counties were drug into West Virginia without their consent. Many were sending troops to the South.
You are determined to get the last word on this subject and even if you succeed you will still be wrong.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8 |
Several of those counties were drug into West Virginia without their consent. Many were sending troops to the South. As were more than a few Southern counties, at least by ballot. You are determined to get the last word on this subject and even if you succeed you will still be wrong. No actually, Jackson was termed here as a dictatorialist tyrant and it was said that Virginia voluntarily let West Virginia secede. Ironically in his day Jackson was seen very much as the President of the common man and in terms of finances anyway did more to advance the power of states relative to the Federal Government than almost anyone. Despite being a wealthy member of the Southern Plantation class he was almost religiously pro-Union, perhaps in part because he had fought in both prior wars FOR the United States. He was also a great expansionist, had invaded Spanish Florida on our behalf and was actively involved in actively supporting (to the extent of sending troops) the independence of Texas. Such was his prominence in his day that, twenty-five years after his death, pro-Union men from both North and South were avidly citing Jackson as their inspiration. Birdwatcher Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,952 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,952 Likes: 1 |
Some might find this interesting: A Digest of the Military and Naval Laws of the Confederate States, From the Commencement of the Provisional Congress to the End of the First Congress Under the Permanent Constitution: Electronic Edition. Confederate States of America. http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/digest/digest.html
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
Some might find this interesting: A Digest of the Military and Naval Laws of the Confederate States, From the Commencement of the Provisional Congress to the End of the First Congress Under the Permanent Constitution: Electronic Edition. Confederate States of America. http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/digest/digest.html This is some really GOOD stuff.
Last edited by hillbillybear; 07/19/15.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8 |
I had cause to be up in Missouri this past week, and stopped in at the Wilson's Creek Battlefield Park. I found this quote of Lincoln's from 1855 to be interesting... Actually I dunno that anyone has documented purposeful slave breeding per se, tho several have looked. Might be a woman, able to bear but one child a year but fertile all year round, had enough chances of conceiving already without needing to bring guys in to make it so. Sorta related, noted Southern diarist Mary Boykin Chestnut on the topic, a highly intelligent woman who moved in the highest Confederate circles.... http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Mary_Boykin_Chesnut Like the patriarchs of our old men live all in one house with their wives and their concubines, and the mulattoes one sees in every family exactly resemble the white children—and every lady tells you who is the father of all the mulatto children in everybody's household, but those in her own she seems to think drop from the clouds, or pretends so to think....and entirely unrelated, but a quote of Mrs. Chestnut's worthy of a sig line.... ...it is the habit of all men to fancy that in some inscrutable way their wives are the cause of all evil in their lives."Back to Lincoln, here he is explaining himself in 1855, the letter from which the above quote was drawn.... http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/speed.htmYou inquire where I now stand. That is a disputed point -- I think I am a whig; but others say there are no whigs, and that I am an abolitionist.
When I was in Washington I voted for the Wilmot Proviso as good as forty times, and I never heard of any one attempting to unwhig me for that. I now do no more than oppose the extension of slavery.
I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor or degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid.
As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics."
When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy.FYI the Whigs were a major political party in the 1830's to 1850's favoring a US bank, tariffs and protectionism, formed in opposition to that OTHER staunch Unionist, the otherwise States-rights guy Andrew Jackson. The party ended over the question of allowing slavery into the territories. Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,240 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,240 Likes: 2 |
... Like the patriarchs of our old men live all in one house with their wives and their concubines, and the mulattoes one sees in every family exactly resemble the white children—and every lady tells you who is the father of all the mulatto children in everybody's household, but those in her own she seems to think drop from the clouds, or pretends so to think.... I just read that quoted in "Albions Seed" last night, as recommended by Joe Bob. Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,240 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,240 Likes: 2 |
..." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics."... Well Uncle Abe, if you don't like the 24 hr campfire, don't log on! Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,961 Likes: 8 |
I'm thinking Mary Chestnut's wartime journals are a must-read, so vividly does that woman's personality spring off of the pages Meanwhile, specific to Missouri, it was claimed around here that Missouri at first asserted a sort of armed neutrality, and later tipped her hand when invaded by Lincoln's armies. Some truth in that, except that even before that the Governor's Missouri State Guard was early on drilling in preparation of joining the Confederacy, even having Jeff Davis covertly send a couple of 12 pounders to batter down the walls of the state armory to access the rifles therein. The Unionist Wide Awakes, who occupied the armory, then launching a pre-emptive strike to arrest 'em. The real problem for the Confederates later on being that Missouri was on the whole a Union-majority state. I got a lot of photos of the surprisingly pretty Wilson's Creek Battlefield, and I'll post 'em later. August 1861 General Nathaniel Lyon siezed the initiative and stole a march on even so august (in Texas) a luminary as General Ben McCulloch and surprised 12,000 Confederates with less than half that number of men. Why a classic pincer movement failed, tho perfectly executed against the Confederates as it was, had much to do with the fact that the Iowa troops present were wearing grey, causing fatal confusion to the Union side at a critical turn in the battle. Lyon, already wounded twice, died early-on while leading his men. That both sides kept at it for five hours on a hundred degree August Missouri day, is testimony to both. Technical Confederate victory but a strategic loss, the hammer blow stalled out their momentum on this first year of the war,and they were unable to follow up against the retreating Federals. Birdwatcher
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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