Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire “Trump's vile comments on McCain an insult to all veterans”

Article is fraught with errors eroding credibility (although most of what he says is correct), this however is not.
He calls being a POW "boilerplate awards, really"?

McCain received his DFC Before becoming a POW:
Distinguished Flying Cross
See more recipients of this award

Awarded for actions during the Vietnam War


The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Distinguished Flying Cross to Commander [then Lieutenant Commander] John Sidney McCain, III (NSN: 0-624787), United States Navy, for heroism while participating in aerial flight on 26 October 1967 in North Vietnam. While attacking the thermal power plant at Hanoi, Commander McCain, despite extremely heavy and accurate anti-aircraft fire and more than fifteen surface-to-air missiles in the air, pursued the attack until his aircraft was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire. Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target. By his exceptional courage, superb airmanship, and total devotion to duty, Commander McCain reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

Audy Murphy had a lot more fruit salad, a LOT MORE:



Medal of Honor For action on 26 January 1945, War Department, General Orders No. 65, 9 August 1945. [ALM 3]
Distinguished Service Cross For action on 15 August 1944, Headquarters, Seventh U.S. Army, General Orders No. 21 (1945). [ALM 4]



Bronze oak leaf cluster
Silver Star with bronze oak leaf cluster (two awards) First award for action on 2 October 1944, Headquarters, 3d Infantry Division, General Orders No. 66 (25 February 1945). Second award for action on 5 October 1944, Headquarters, 3d Infantry Division, General Orders No. 83 (3 March 1945). [16]
Legion of Merit For action on 22 January 1944 – 18 February 1945, Headquarters, European Theater of Operations, General Orders No. 100 (25 May 1945). [17]



V

Bronze oak leaf cluster
Bronze Star with "V" Device and bronze oak leaf cluster (two awards) First award with "V" Device for action on 2 March 1944, Headquarters, 3d Infantry Division, General Orders No. 84 (4 March 1945). Second award for action on 8 May 1944. [18]



Bronze oak leaf cluster

Bronze oak leaf cluster
Purple Heart with two bronze oak leaf clusters (three awards) For wounds received 15 September 1944, 26 October 1944, and 25 January 1945.

Glenn was (is) a bigger POS than McCain ever was.

Incidentally, I had a few dealings with Hackworh in the Pentagon after he became a "reporter". Hackworth was another hero with a lot of guts.

I don't think Goldwater was particularly fond of McCain. At one point he referred to him as a carpet bagger for adopting his home state and implied it was solely a calcuated move to get into national politics.

"McCain's original plan had been to run for a new U.S. House of Representatives seat from Arizona, created by reapportionment following the 1980 census, but that turned out to be too far from Phoenix.Then John Jacob Rhodes, Jr., the longtime Republican congressman from Arizona's 1st congressional district, announced his retirement in January 1982.[1] This seat encompassed parts of the Phoenix metropolitan area and was very close to where the McCains lived; his wife Cindy McCain bought a house in the district the same day as Rhodes' announcement. Rhodes suggested that McCain first run for the Arizona Legislature to gain more experience, but McCain had no interest in slowly working his way up."

and of course when McCain was accused of carpet bagging in debates, he went with the POW card he so frequently uses. "The longest place I ever lived was in Hanoi"

But McCain thinks he's another Goldwater or the same standing here in Az.

Kent

You're not even very smart, nor do you bother to read.


None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield -- where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as "boilerplate" and "part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnam-era) POWs."

Alvin York and Audie Murphy were real heroes. McCain had favorable treatment in Vietnam and in the USA after his return because his Daddy & Grand Daddy were Admirals. According to a lot of 'Nam Vets who were there with "Song Bird" McCain. He's a crooked Senator who has been and is now, in a position to help our Veterans..but refuses to do so. He's worthless, IMO.

Apparently it must be catching, you're the dolt who took Hackworth's at face value, not to mention half the other crap you've posted as fact on these threads, hence, the McCain has more FS than Murphy or Glenn you conveniently ignored. As to the boilerplate, I don't care who said it, especially two "unnamed" naval officers. I had the opportunity to deal with POWs on a regular basis at the National Museum of Naval Aviation and none of this "boilerplate" garbage came up. Not all POWs received Silver Star or LOMs and not a single award would have gotten past Stockdale, Stratton, or any of the other Hanoi Hilton SROs.

This from an idiot who claims as fact the NV had "dossiers" on every aviator before they got in theater and every president is shown the Zapruder film after taking office among an entire litany of kook statements you post on a regular basis. Lastly, twenty hours of flight time over the NV IADS is a lifetime, then again what would a protected feathermerchant know. And BTW, I posted MCain's record and SPECIFICALLY addressed the issue of his DFC was awarded BEFORE his POW status, but I guess that went over your head whilst I was just mentioning Hackworth's article had a lot of errors, you know like your posts...

100% in agreement.

I think Trump was just saying the one's that didn't get shot down or captured and completed their missions are more deserving of hero status than the ones who didn't complete their missions and did get shot down or captured.

He didn't say he wasn't a hero. I think it's more the media and people who like to pile on just doing what they do.

I don't think that is what he meant:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while senior naval officer in the Prisoner of War camps of North Vietnam. Recognized by his captors as the leader in the Prisoners' of War resistance to interrogation and in their refusal to participate in propaganda exploitation, Rear Adm. Stockdale was singled out for interrogation and attendant torture after he was detected in a covert communications attempt. Sensing the start of another purge, and aware that his earlier efforts at self-disfiguration to dissuade his captors from exploiting him for propaganda purposes had resulted in cruel and agonizing punishment, Rear Adm. Stockdale resolved to make himself a symbol of resistance regardless of personal sacrifice. He deliberately inflicted a near-mortal wound to his person in order to convince his captors of his willingness to give up his life rather than capitulate. He was subsequently discovered and revived by the North Vietnamese who, convinced of his indomitable spirit, abated in their employment of excessive harassment and torture toward all of the Prisoners of War. By his heroic action, at great peril to himself, he earned the everlasting gratitude of his fellow prisoners and of his country. Rear Adm. Stockdale's valiant leadership and extraordinary courage in a hostile environment sustain and enhance the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service.

On 26 August 1967, Col. Day was forced to eject from his aircraft over North Vietnam when it was hit by ground fire. His right arm was broken in 3 places, and his left knee was badly sprained. He was immediately captured by hostile forces and taken to a prison camp where he was interrogated and severely tortured. After causing the guards to relax their vigilance, Col. Day escaped into the jungle and began the trek toward South Vietnam. Despite injuries inflicted by fragments of a bomb or rocket, he continued southward surviving only on a few berries and uncooked frogs.

He successfully evaded enemy patrols and reached the Ben Hai River, where he encountered U.S. artillery barrages. With the aid of a bamboo log float, Col. Day swam across the river and entered the demilitarized zone. Due to delirium, he lost his sense of direction and wandered aimlessly for several days. After several unsuccessful attempts to signal U.S. aircraft, he was ambushed and recaptured by the Viet Cong, sustaining gunshot wounds to his left hand and thigh.

He was returned to the prison from which he had escaped and later was moved to Hanoi after giving his captors false information to questions put before him. Physically, Col. Day was totally debilitated and unable to perform even the simplest task for himself. Despite his many injuries, he continued to offer maximum resistance.

His personal bravery in the face of deadly enemy pressure was significant in saving the lives of fellow aviators who were still flying against the enemy. Col. Day's conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself and the U.S. Armed Forces.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bud-days-medal-of-honor-citation-2013-7#ixzz3gXwsaNTL

If McCain was such a damned good pilot why did he crash so many planes in his career?


How much truth is in the reports that say the only reason he ws shot down was his own beligerance about not following orders?

We seem to be a nation of the most easily offended. I would think most veterans have thicker skin than news pundits and wouldn't get wound up about Trumps words being spun.

If there is anything that is disgraceful it is McCain using his war hero status to cover his inept and disgraceful term as senator.

git: I have no idea. All I can tell you is from what I know about what goes on in flight training, the TIMES McCain was in training and some about his mission. McCain is a Class of 58 Annapolis graduate and he was selected for the Jet pipeline and single seat airplanes. Those were the days of pure class standing for selection, but more importantly they were the days before standardization (NATOPS) and the mishap rate was horrendous (expressed in mishaps/100K hours). So to have been selected to fly jets and single seat tells me he had very good grades in flight training and the mishaps, well, given what I just told you and without the mishap report to read, I really can't say. As to the mission, all I can tell you is he was one of a division (4) A-4s who rolled in on the target and he got bagged by a SAM. If you have the sources for the reports, I'd like to see them and maybe try and get a better picture. All I can tell you is North Vietnam had the most sophisticated and massive IADS in history.

Incidentally, my last job before I retired, I had the Aviation Training School (USN) and had access to training records dating back to WWII. It was fun looking at all the old stuff, including flight training records for the likes of Glenn, Bush 41, Pappy Boyington, and a whole lot more of these guys. Even Rumsfeld's!

J

Agreed.

Yes he did, immediately before he said, "OK, He's a hero because he was captured."

Not sticking up for McLame, but that's what Trump said.

And he is right, Hero is one of the most over used words in the english language. McCain is a traitor, a snake in the grass, and so far away from being a real hero that he is standing in line behind that Jenner freak show.

McCain has always said, over and over again, that he is no hero.
Trump has always said, over and over again, how [bleep] great he is.

Perhaps Jorge will take a lesson from this. Well said.

Perhaps you might want to read what I posted, or here's a novelty, check Hackworth's work for accuracy. HINT: it has quite a few errors.

You ask too much...

"War hero" used to be a rarely applied label, and that's how it should have remained. That's the point many are making, and which you seem to be strongly in opposition to.