Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Barnes TSX/TTSX

I am hoping to do a moose hunt in Newfoundland, and will use my Remington 700 .300 Winchester Mag. I used Nosler Partitions on an elk hunt last year and they did their job fine on that hunt, but I'm intrigued by these Barnes bullets and would like to try the,. Does anyone have any doubt that they would not kill a moose in my rifle (dumb question, I'm sure), provided they shoot well enough? Also, is there any real difference between the TSX and the TTSX in performance? From what I have seen the tipped bullet has a little better BC, but in actual on game performance is there any difference?

Part of the reason I am asking is when I was hunting in WY, a hunter came in while I was there and shot a bull elk with them in a .338 RUM, and the bullet was literally stopped on the shoulder of the elk. The hunter and his guide were scratching their heads on that one,it was a good shot and was confirmed when they skinned the bull, but that was after a lengthy follow up and several more shots. I believe it was a 225-grain TTSX that the hunter had the failure with. It was a failure, too- the guide was convinced after the bull was down that it would not have killed the elk given the penetration from the initial shot. I know "stuff" happens, but I just wanted to make sure this was an isolated incident, before I spend much time finding a load my rifle likes with these bullets.

That elk story sounds like a fish story. You're not going to have any trouble with a Barnes. I've read that the plastic tip initiates expansion better, so might be better at the longest ranges where velocity is falling off. In theory.

I’ve put somewhere over a dozen XFBs and TSXs into or through various moose in the making of meat. I still have the very first one I killed a moose with - after breaking both shoulders with a 225 XFB from a 340 Weatherby. They’re a very good bullet when they work right, and they are an excellent choice when shooting bone or when using one of the faster cartridges. The TTSX is the way I’d go though for moose which are heavier obstacles, either will undoubtedly work. Be not afraid to shoot bones with these bullets; (it’ll do nothing but make them work even better.) Don’t be surprised if you catch a bullet though. I’ve had over half a dozen Barnes monos stay inside various moose I’ve killed.

The ttsx is my favorite bullet these days - it shoots accurately in my rifles and breaks bone if needed. From a 7mm RM my 150 broke spine and shoulder on a large boar at a little over 500 yards. I've had them penetrate end to end on an elk facing me and drop them in their tracks from better angles. I don't think you will be disappointed with them.

First time Ive heard of a failure with ANY TTSX....Hmmmmmm...


That said, Im a fan. Load them up and go slay a moose!

I find it hard to reason how a 225gr .338" diameter solid piece of copper might have been stopped in its tracks on the near side shoulder, unless perhaps buddy had a squib load and didn't realize it.

Anyway, yes the TTSX is among the best bullets in existence for use from your .300WM on moose.

How, exactly, did the 225 grain .338" fail? If it did not expand, I can't see any way at all that bullet didn't zip through like an FMJ without it being a severe squib load or the equivalent at extremely long range. If it expanded and stopped, then the same velocity issue is the only way I can see that happening.

Also, define "good shot"? A broadside shoulder shot just doesn't make sense with that little penetration (see above). Now, if it was a raking shot through the "rear shoulder" forward and the bullet stopped after that much penetration, then that's a different story.

Something just doesn't make sense.

Yeah...... since this was secondhand heresay..I have real doubts.
I couldn't tell you how many Nosler Partitions Ive heard of that have "failed".....all second hand. Never seen one myself.

Same with this .338 TTSX...I'd have to see it to believe it.

I don't know the exact angle of the shot because I wasn't with them, the bullet did expand, they showed me the bullet they pulled out of the shoulder bone. Maybe it was a squib load, they said the shot sounded ok, like I said- they were scratching their heads on that one too, couldn't explain it. I just wanted to make sure it was a freak thing, because I really would like to try them out on my next hunt, I'm definitely not knocking the bullet because before that, I heard pretty much nothing but good about them.

I'm curious if he bounced the TTSX into the elk.

Even is smaller bores they do well.

In my 26 Nos, the 120 TAC-X is the most accurate bullet, half MOA at 400 yds. And, at 3,400 fps, they do impressive damage to hogs and WT's.

I'd probably go with a bigger bore for big critters, but think this one would take one out, pronto.

DF

The Barnes are some of my favorites but, man, if it ain't broken.........

Yep.

OK spelling nazi, is that supposed to be hearsay, or heresy?

Would you believe spelchek let that one slip by?.......

Below is the first big game animal I took with a Barnes 168 tsx out of a 300 wsm back in 2004. One shot quartering away bullet under a pocket of skin on opposite shoulder. Bullet weight was 167 grains after recovery, heck might of been that before but one way or the other it's pretty good retention.

I have used nothing but tsx, ttsx, and lrx since then all with the same boring outstanding results. Different game, different cartridges, different distances, different conditions it all ends the same for me.

I even included a pic of a 225 grain ttsx out of a 338 win mag from a bear a few years ago.

I'm not worried about any failures.

Nice looking bullets. The 338 bullet worked just fine on that bear.

210 ttsx, 338-06 not at top speeds, moose at about 125 yards, broke neck, through scapula on off side, found under skin

210 grains.

No doubts in my mind...

130 grain TSX out of a 270WBY MAG at 3500 fps kills everything I put one through. Shoots as flat as the 26 Nosler, don't know my they think they reinvented the wheel.

Yes, because it let spelchek (sic) slip by...

JustinL1,

He should have shown you the photo of the eight inch tree he shot though to get to the elk's shoulder.

Friggin' computer!

For every bullet design, I've heard of bullet failure, but am always suspicious of the details, most of which I don't get in the story, which are usually second hand. Guys in my neck of the woods use interlocks exclusively, and kill big stuff. I went to the TTSX 150gr in my .308, because, at the time the NP weren't available at the local sports stores. They are certainly accurate, but I haven't yet tested them on elk. This 308 is my backup rifle, and I usually hunt elk with my 30-06 or 358win. NP is my bullet of choice because they've worked. I did use Trophy Bonded Bear Claws in my older Savage 110, because, years ago they worked, but are no longer available. I can understand that if one is spending big bucks on a hunt, they want the best for the task at hand. But over the years, accuracy and shot placement seems to get it done.
There's no replacement for those 2 details in my simple mind any more than the biggest, most expensive rifle can cure all other hunting shortcomings. But I'm getting old, so likely I'm out of synchrony with the rest of the younger hunting community.
I understand the thread is about moose, not elk, but since our moose are in threatened times and I feel a kinship to them, I don't hunt them. But I trust that the TTSX will work fine on elk, from the comments on the Campfire and other testimonials. And they'd work fine on moose.
Heck, don't the Norweigans use a 6.5x55 routinely on moose?

NP are to frangible for my tastes and loose too much weight...

About the 8 inch tree.. reminded me of my buddy who let his boss shoot a book black bear in AK with his 338 win mag and some 225 barnes I loaded...

IIRC it was about a 2-3 inch alder before it hit the bear, went through bear and about a 5 inch alder after that and kept flying.... bear very dead.

Since I've caught 180 NPs from 300 wtby in mid size whitetail deer, I quit using them, though JB tells me I should have been using the 200 NPs.

But went to 180 barnes in that round and have never caught a bullet in anything since....

RE 6.5x55.... anything works put in the right place for the round... we hunted AK moose with 30-30 for a number of years and never were concerned.

Now if I had to break bone to get somewhere, then I"d have been concerned. But I knew the limitations.

Without knowing how far the shot was, it’s pretty hard to speculate what happened, not that speculation really solves anything. But I have seen these monolithic bullets do some crazy things when the distances have gotten a bit long. I have also seen people shoot things at 300 (which were more like 500), as well as shooting things at 150 that were more like 300.

Moose are worthy of good bullets though. I have pretty much returned to Partitions over the last several years for my moose hunting. That has avoided the drama of bullets blown to bits or bullets failing to expand though last years young bull was instantly tipped over by a 180 E-tip (which he also failed got catch).

A few ‘caught’ moose bullets:


340 wtby, 340, 30-30, 7-08, 340.

The .270 Weatherby is something special and surprisingly under utilized. I found mine very impressive.

Don't ya love to read a "bullet failure" post next to a hanging, dead critter...

DF

He said they shot the critter some more, so I'll give him this one. Plus, I HAVE seen things afield with bullets and wounds that I wouldn't believe , had I not seen them.Weird stuff happens sometimes.

Hard to claim something absolutely can't happen with any bullet. I have seen some wonky stuff with TSX's myself, but not with TTSX's, or the Hornady GMX or Nosler E-Tip, two other plastic-tipped monolithics.

MD, what's the biggest screw-up you've seen from partitions (seriously curious) ?

DF, please accept this as constructive comment and not derogatory.

Just because any bullet kills an animal AND your recover the animal DOES NOT mean the bullet performed as it should have nor as advertised.

My personal opinion and requisite is that a bullet for big game does NOT explode / disintegrate. Sometimes that disintegration can cause instantaneous death. Other times that can lead to the last thing you want to happen.

OTOH if all a hunter wants is to recover a dead animal regardless of bullet performance, then there is no bullet failure.

Each to his own.

Have a good day.
Jerry

Got it.

DF

On the other hand, if the 'exploding" bullet performs exactly as it was designed, it didn't fail. That being said, I don't personally like "exploding" big game bullets either.

JG,

Have seen a couple Partitions that might have deflected a little after hitting bone. I say "might" because it was hard to tell for sure, as one animal was moving and the other might have been due to misjudgment of the animal's angle by the shooter.

Did see a 210 Partition from a .338 Winchester Magnum stopped by a whitetail buck that weighed maybe 160-170 pounds on the hoof. It was running angling away from a friend of mine, who put the bullet in the middle of the deer, just behind the last rib. While skinning we found it under the hide of the shoulder on the opposite side.

Have yet to see one fail to expand, and have yet to see one fail to penetrate sufficiently. But then I usually don't shoot unwounded animals in the rear end. Did shoot a raghorn elk in the rear with a 200 from a .300 Weatherby at about 375 yards, but the bull had been previously hit in the chest, low in the heart as it turned out. The one in the tail penetrated into the chest, and put the elk down right there, and it didn't move again.

Accidentally shot a pronghorn buck in the right hip with a 100 from a .257 Roberts at 300 yards, when he whirled to challenge another buck just as I pulled the trigger. He also went down instantly and was dead when I walked up on him. The bullet angled through the body and ended up in the left shoulder.

Have yet to see one fail to expand.

J G -

Yes indeed. We are on the same page.

I wasn't addressing 'exploding' bullets per se.

I repeat something I've said a few times. I like cheese on my my 'bergers'.

Me too jwall! That was pretty funny. Thanks for the info MD, good stuff.

Bullets aren't infallible. Start a 225 TSX at 3200 fps and contact with the heavy shoulder bones of a mature bull elk is the practical equivalent of hitting a brick wall. Things should have gone as planned because the bullet is designed for it,but strange stuff can still happen.

I'd think the bull that stopped a 225 X would be an isolated incident since I've killed bull elk with lighter Partitions in different calibers that penetrated shoulders with no problem. If anything a Barnes has tougher construction. I'd use them without hesitation.

As to comments on the Partitions I haven't seen one ever fail to expand nor do what I expected,although I did think the 120 gr 25 seemed a bit tender at 25/06 velocities,and one 7mm-160 spun its front and rear cores....but it had deflected on brush before impact.

Whether they exit or not depends on the particular weight and caliber, the animal, where you hit it, velocity at impact...etc etc, just like any other bullet.Still and all I have not recovered many of them. Exits are pretty routine.

I have been surprised over how similarly they behave in animals, regardless of caliber so long as a caliber and weight was used that was suited to the animal in question.

Dance with the one that brung ya'

Didn't the Nosler Partition come into being because the conventional cup and core bullets of the time didn't satisfy him with their performance on moose from a .300 H&H?
Just saying but the .300 magnums, partitions 180 grains and heavier and moose are very well matched. Not that TSX/TTSX bullets or many other bullets won't do the job.

Bob,

Interesting that you've found the 120-grain .25 Partition "a bit tender" from the .25-06. I've shot several animals with it from the .257 Weatherby Magnum at a muzzle velocity of 3300 fps, at ranges from 80 to 300 yards, and all have exited. None of the animals was very big, but on a an elk hunt in 2012 one of my partners killed a good 6x6 with one 120 Partition .257 Weatherby factory load at modest range, and it also exited on broadside lung shot--and killed the elk quickly.

Would be interested in your details.

I know I'm probably better off sticking with Partitions (I do love them and how they perform on game), I just felt like trying something else. I may get a box of the TSX's just to see how they shoot, and if it's very well out of my rifle, I'll give them a go. If not- I'll stick with my old standby of the Partitions. Who knows, maybe by next year I'll buy a whole new rifle to take moose hunting. 😜

Adult Alaskan moose, 300 yards, 180 Partition 30-06, Barsness load of Hunter. Some stuff has a good history. I still like monos when they work well - and generally they do on the big stuff like moose.

Klik,

The biggest problem with 180 Partitions in the .30-06 is the combination so boring nobody notices when they work. About a dozen years ago I went to Africa on what was primarily a cull shoot, and took a .30-06 with 180 Partitions (and to make it even more boring a 3-9x scope), just because everybody agonizes over what Really Special Rifle is needed for plains game.

Killed a truckload of animals with no problems, naturally, including a good kudu with the second-longest shot I've ever taken over there, which dropped the kudu so quickly it took a while to find it in the brush. (The "blood trail" was underneath the bull.) Wrote the story up and apparently it was so boring everybody went back to arguing about Ackley Improved Whatevers, plastic-tipped bullets made of depleted uranium, and scopes capable of tracking the moons of Jupiter.

Ha! I love it......matter of fact I'm gonna steal that one and use it if you don't mind.

JGR: The other one John uses that I like is 'he dropped in his tracks'....


They ALWAYS drop in their tracks.......

Unless they're flying, of course....

NOPE! NEVER say ALWAYS !



"I told ya so."

jwall,



I killed one that left its tracks behind. I shot the deer near the edge of a precipice. Instead of dropping, it reared up like a horse and fell backwards off the cliff. In fact it went half way to the pickup in the valley below. What I don't understand is it was quartering toward me when I fired. I got the front of one lung the heart and the back of the other lung. And yet it stood up on its back legs turned around and fell over backward.

I don't remember how many points it had when I fired, but it had two broken stumps when I got to it. Fortunately in Washington, visible antlers make it legal.

A friend and I went blacktail hunting and he shot a big 4x4 that did the exact same thing.Reared up, fell over the 30' ledge, rolled 150 yards down a meadow and piled up in a vine maple. We found enough pieces of the antlers for the taxidermist to put it back together.

There are more "DRT's" (gawd, I despise that acronym) from campfire members than the entire nation combined.

Scott we are also alluding to those that run off. When they drop THEY drop in their tracks too!

Unless they 'roll' head over heels OR heels over head (is more accurate) the head normally is over heels.

Animals react in ALL SORTS of ways to being hit w/bullets regardless of point of impact (except to CNS).

In 40+ yrs. of deer hunting I've seen deer do almost everything you could imagine and some have done what you'd never think.

I have not only seen it for myself but in some TV hunting programs (if you can call them hunting).

There is an old fable that hit (wounded) bucks do NOT raise their flag (tail). OH YES they CAN. I've seen it personally morenonce and a few Xs in videos.

I've even seen mortally wounded deer have NO reaction that you could tell.

Ringman, I've seen deer (bucks & does) rear up like a horse, others have kicked like a mule, others have bucked and kicked both hind feet, et.al.,..et.al.

RINGMAN

I have remembered another reaction I've seen deer have.

I have hit a couple of deer at full tilt (dead run), when the bullets contacted them, they were in the AIR and hit the ground SLIDING !!

On one of those times my looong time friend was with me and WE saw this doe simply hit the ground like a sack of potatoes and she slid several feet up against a tree.

This was before cell phones with cameras and we did not have any camera with us. You could see the leaves and stuff had been plowed and she was piled up at the tree. (fond memory)!!!

I remember this one time back at band camp. I shot this deer running at me at 200 yards with ole meat getter and I hit him so hard it turn him inside out. Easiest deer I every had to clean.

Right, right! They're "DRT" there too, no?

Yeah - Fonzy could not say he was ever "wrong" either.

<@X*# %?@/%

X%O <"@/$*

et.al.

Damn, forget one "winky'....
If you're referring to me, I assure you I'm wrong on a daily, if not hourly basis. You can ask my wife.

Troooth! I have always loved the puzzled look that certain seasoned folks will give when you ask what they used on their most recent moose or whatever. The blank look that questions why a person would even discuss the details of killing stuff with 180 grains in general in the 30-06, but especially a “premium” combination as proven and well regarded as the Partition. (Which is sometimes followed by “7-0 what?” if they even think to question what the silver barreled, “plastic” stocked rifle is that I have across my shoulder.) The funny thing is, I tend to leave a plain ol’ 30-06 standing in the safe. It doesn’t “play” as much as some of the others, but it’s the one that gets called up when I don’t have time for the niceties of pre-hunt range checks and tune-ups.

The TTSX is a good bullet, but like all bullets is a trade off. It gives up the ability to kill fast for penetration. That's on average of course.

The other thing I notice is they are always DRT too.

I've had very good experiences with the TSX/TTSXs out of several cartridges only once wondering at a "very small" exit on a long distance deer hit broadside through the chest. This provided very little resistance at five hundred yards but the exit wasn't much bigger than caliber. Still the deer tipped over very quickly.

You and I have seen similar results. I've shot a bunch of stuff, from whitetails with my 7x57 (by the truckloads) to the bigger stuff, and I think I've only shot one head of game twice with a TSX/TTSX. I will admit that I shoot to break bones with the Barnes.

There's something fishy about ths story. I can see how the bullet might not expand and pencil through, or how it might fragment due to some hardness issue, but not just stop dead a few inches in.

I'm liking the tree in the way theory.