Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Shooting Cecil the Lion

Everyone with a picture of themselves, hunting on the internet ,is going to have to push back on this ,as it is going viral and all hunters are going to get a black eye over a lion hunt in Africa. None of the facts are going to be brought up, just all emotion, and crazy comments. This is going to go against all hunting and will eventually be against guns in general.

Source? In fact I have yet to hear or read anything here locally of a crossbow being used.

I didn't say a crossbow was used. I just corrected your unsooured error regarding the photo.

Been thirty years since I lived in Africa but AFAIK.....

...had this not gone viral after being reported by outside "Conservation" organizations, an appropriate donation to the appropriate Zimbabwean officials would have made this all go away.

...eventually some significantly larger donations will make this all go away.

Big game hunting will continue unabated in Zimbabwe because of the profits accrued by the appropriate officials from the hefty fees charged.

It is hard to feel much sympathy for a guy previously convicted of de-facto poaching, but the unfortunate Dentist will have to relocate his practice and will suffer cyber-stalking by fanatics for at least some period of time. Probably he will have to open his practice under a different name.

I dunno what the outcome for the PH will be, loss of his livelihood as a PH seems likely.

By next week the media circus will have moved on.

The only lasting damage will be hard to measure; an enduring stain on the image of SCI, and on hunting and hunters in general among the clueless. Unfortunately there's a LOT of clueless out there and they don't like hunting anyway.

As for the lion; at the remarkably old age of thirteen Cecil was at the end of his run and would of course shortly have been killed by other lions or starved to death after being evicted as a pride male.

Birdwatcher

From PH Ivan Carter:


CECIL THE LION
I have been bombarded with e mails, calls and texts about cecil the lion , I have seen many of the newsreels and I have spoken to several people who are truly in the know …some of the reporting is atrocious – here are the facts as I see them .

1- The lion was killed in an area where there was no lion on quota , which makes it a poaching incident – period .
2- There was an attempt to destroy the collar – why? This would lead me to believe that Palmer knew the facts – indeed he had a previous poaching conviction involving shooting a bear in an area with no permit.
3- In Zimbabwe it is not illegal to shoot a lion with a collar.
4- The property upon which the hunt took place was land that was involved in the Zimbabwe land redistribution….
5- I have no doubt that the landowner and hunting company and Ph knew exactly what was happening and they are directly involved in this POACHING incident.
6- Had this happened in an area with a valid quota , a 13 year old lion would have indeed been the perfect lion to hunt – beyond breeding , this lion at 13 years old was near the end of his life.


My thoughts…
I do not condone poachers , I ABHOR poaching – there is no difference between an incident like this and a rhino poacher in a national park - I believe that hunting when done within the boundaries of good ethics is the most incredible conservation tool – Incidents like these put a terrible light on hunters in general.

There are a lot of examples not just in Africa but all over the world where hunting and more specifically hunters dollars have funded the preservation , protection and enlarging of wildlife areas to the degree that species and wildlife have thrived. Sadly the emotionally motivated opinions and “politically correct” agendas often get in the way of any meaningful dialogue or solutions. Incidents like this fuel the fire, create a social media storm and paint all hunters in a terrible light – making it all the more difficult for good upstanding hunters to be heard and recognized for the good they do ...

A boundary is a boundary , I have no issue at all with a hunter shooting a lion in a bona fide concession where the lion is on quota – even if it is a named individual – UNLESS THE LAW OR ETHICS DICTATE OTHERWISE –

To all the hunters who are reading this , please know we as a body as a group are under the microscope , there has never been a time in history where its more important to do the right thing all the time, to hunt legally and ethically- to be ready and prepared to explain and educate - in this case I am pleased that this incident is being tried - it was ILLEGAL it was POACHING – that said its being given WAAAAY more coverage than it should be.

I'm not surprised to see some unethical monkey business out of Zim. There are a handful of names I trust in Zim - John Sharpe and Russ Broom to name 2 on that short list. There have been beaucoup reports about cowboy PH cutting deals with landowners and sell hunts that aren't kosher. I'll say there are some outright scams in Zim.

This hunter sounds a little greasy, but the PH looks surely guilty. I want everybody to take a good look at the 21st Century. The Internet is now a way to crucify your enemies and Yahoo News and Jimmy Kimmel will force feed opinions and peer pressure will come down hard on any dissenters.

You WILL accept Caitlyn/Bruce and champion his/her courage!

You WILL condemn hunting!

The Kardashians are MORE important that the Iran nuke deal!


I don't like the trend at all......

One unassailable fact is that it was illegal to shoot a lion in the area where it was shot. There was no lion quota there. This is probably a case of "quota swapping," shooting the game in one area and claiming it was shot in another where there is a quota.

Did the dentist know about this or was he duped by the PH and landowner? Who knows? But he was convicted of quota swapping involving a black bear in Wisconsin a few years ago.

Why did they attempt to destroy the GPS collar? Probably because it would have exposed the area where the lion was, in fact, shot. I find it hard to believe that the dentist did not know what was going on.

The problem is that this will harm all hunting. There are fewer and fewer hunters in the USA each year anyway, and most non-hunters think hunting is disgusting. The USFWS was on the cusp of banning lion imports before this incident. They've already banned elephant imports from most of the countries where elephant hunting is legal. Of course polar bear hunting is banned (for Americans). I would not be surprised to see California ban black bear hunting, as they have banned mountain lion hunting. What's next?

A good example is my wife. Despite my three safaris in Africa, including Zimbabwe, when I mentioned I might like to hunt bears, she said--and this is an exact quote--"You leave those little bears alone." Now she does not want to wear the beautiful diamond and gold studded necklace I had made for her form a lion's dew claw.

If I were the dentist, and I were not guilty, I would fight back on Facebook, Twttter, etc. I don't think (I hope) the US has an extradition treaty with Zimbabwe.

As for me, if I had FaceBook or a web site I would not post any pictures of game on it. Nor do I mention what guns I might own on any Internet forum.

The only good thing I see is that the Obamunists have scared so many people into buying guns and getting CCW permits that it will be more difficult for the inevitable confiscation to work.

That's it. Join the NRA if you're not a member.

Hey Guys:

I didn't read the posts. Sorry.

I'll wait for more details.

I'm a very old Africa Hand, lived and hunted there for years.

I do NOT shoot cats of any description at all.

I also lived in Asia for 5 years. I had ample opportunities to hunt tigers up in the highlands with the primitive Montnards where tigers were raiding villages. Many invitations, didn't go.

Lions, tigers cougars are strictly OFF my list completely.

Note that I am NOT an anti obstructionist. Any fellow hunter who want's to shoot same will never hear any objections from me. I won't even try to foist my philsophy on others.

When the game is gone it is gone ! In the coming decades we will see the diminution of species, disappearance.

It will be after my lifetime so I won't be around to see it but it is certain as the sun rises.

I don't care to hunt big cats either, but don't fault those who do it legally, and ethically. The "ethically" part excludes animals that are unafraid of people. There's many videos of him walking past cars, so it would not be ethical to hunt him, in any case. I have no doubt the PH made a big mistake.

That national park where Cecil lived would not exist at all, were it not for the money that hunters have previously spent in Zim.

This incident happened about a month ago. Curious that it pops up around the time of the Planned Parenthood videos...

Not curious at all, really.

read in many places by individuals that have spent alot of time around lions that it seems unless they are injured or provoked lions usually dont seem to completely understand the fact that those in the vehicle are people, when people step out of the vehicle near the same cat paying no attention to a car full of tourists all the sudden the cats demeanor will change and they start looking at the person as a potential meal....even those lions outside the parks, if they arent shot at like we shoot at coyotes around here, will largely ignore vehicles until they get uncomfortably close into the animals personal space.....

Couple of questions for those in the know. Is night hunting allowed, and is baiting for cats allowed in Zim? I haven't read many article about the hunt but the ones I did were short on any real info. This article on Fox has me scratching my head:



Since when?


Also, it's certainly unclear as to what the hunter knew. How is an American to know if the PH and outfitter really has a license in the area you are hunting, or where the park boundries really are? I depend on my PH to know the rules in a foreign country. Depending on how this turns out, that might be a foolish thing to do. Until there is any info detailing the hunters guilt, it's hard to find him at fault.

I've never heard of this lion and wouldn't know him if he was sitting in my living room. If I was hunting lion and he stepped out in front of me, I certainly would have shot. I have no problem with hunting along park or refuge boundaries or baiting the lion. I've yet to hear if they drug the bait inside the park or just outside the park boundary. Makes a huge difference to me.

Spot on, Kodiak and here is a good link to the reality that is hunting and it's key role in species preservation"

link

Too lazy to do this, but someone mentioned that lions HAD been eradicated in Rhodesia due to cattle depradations then re-introduced (likely by efforts of hunters) successfully. Could one of the Africa hands bring me up to speed on this?? It would provide very useful ammunition for me.

That is correct, Jim. Rhodesia came to be known as the "breadbasket" of Africa, but a more appropriate moniker should have been the "butcher of Africa". Practically the entire Lowveldt (southern Rhodesia) was turned into an enormous cattle ranch, save for a few areas designated as game reserves. Sometime in the 70-80s (I think) a few WHITE Rhodesians decided to turn away from cattle and as result, re-introduced a lot of species, including lion, that had been completely eradicated by the cattle industry. When I was there, my PH, John Sharp, was in the middle of a project re-introducing lions to his area, known as Malangani, which is now part of the million acre plus Bubye conservancy.

What I found interesting is that leopard for example, no longer took their kills up a tree to eat them, because all the lion and hyenas had been exterminated. That was in 2001. By 2008 when lion and hyena had been re-introduced, the leopards were once again taking their kills into the trees. Today, the Bubye enjoys one of the largest (if not THE largest concentrations) of lions in Africa, ALL as a result of Trophy hunting, which generates on average close to 75K PER HUNT to the local economy. Stop lion hunting and they will fade into oblivion.

Ahhhh!!! Thanks Bro, I have some SERIOUS balls to break now!!!!

Here's a good link for you that also includes rhino conservation there:
Bubye Valley

I was contacted a couple of days ago by a well-known reporter/writer who asked me to comment on the killing of the lion people in Zimbabwe named Cecil. I declined because, like most people, I know only what I've read in the media -- not what actually took place -- and I have not followed the story closely enough to be able to make an informed opinion.

I'm glad I declined to comment because I just checked the story and the writer editorialized on one comment to make it look more one-sided than it was. Another commenter made a statement that he can't possibly know to be true. A third point was made purely on the basis of "reports" that were not more than rumor. The article could have been worse, but I'm glad I didn't comment and get my name mixed up with that.

One specific question the reporter asked was whether it's "an indictment on big game hunting." I said it is not an indictment against all hunters any more than false reporting is an indictment against all reporters.

Steve.

Great riposte. Touché.

Rumor has it that in the weeks prior to Cecil's untimely death, he ran down a pregnant gazelle, crippled it's hind legs, ripped into her belly, and then ate her fetus while she was still alive and bleating. Cecil subsequently claimed he was doing research for Planned Parenthood.

In other news, Iran now has a green light to develop nuclear weapons, the Chinese are training to invade Taiwan, the American military has been decimated, the American government has refused to defend the country's borders, the president has been quietly sending thousands of more troops back into Iraq, Kuwait and the Ukraine, war still rages in Afghanistan, and ISIS continues to shoot innocent people, burn them alive, drown them in cages, and teach seven year old's the ancient Muslim art of beheading with dull knives.

Coming up: How to handle the abject horror and psychological trauma of accidentally encountering a Confederate Battle flag, a Nativity scene, a gun show, or a public display of the Ten Commandments...