Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Which .223 bolt action, heavy barrel?

I am an experienced shooter, mostly pistols and rimfire rifle. I'm getting a .223 bolt action to shoot with my teenage sons (2). We only shoot at the range, off a bench, no hunting. Distances will be 100 and 200 yds. I will not be competing, just personal enjoyment. I would like to shoot groups of 1" at 100 and 2" at 200 yds. with factory ammo, won't reload.
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<br>I'm leaning to a Win. 70 Stealth, recommended at Snipercountry.com. Also considering the Rem. 700 vs, vssf, and vls, Win. Coyote, and Savage 10fp and 12bvss.
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<br>For the price difference on the Savages, after everyone says get a new $80 trigger, difference begins to disappear. Are the Savages noticably more accurate than a Win. Stealth?
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<br>Saw the Coyote today at Bass Pro Shop for 569. Very attractive and it has a stainless steel barrel (I like). I think it is not bedded like the Stealth, and the wood could get dinged over the years, so I thought maybe go ahead with the Stealth (synthetic stock). I hope to get a Stealth for around 620 off the internet, plus shipping and ffl.
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<br>I've looked at Howa and Tikka, I like easy availability of accessories, so still thinking Winchester 70. Nothing against Rem. personnally, but comments here are disturbing.
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<br>On the Win., would the Stealth be that much more accurate than the Coyote out of the box, and what after 5 or 10 years, with the bedding and synthetic stock (no moisture swelling)?
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<br>Anything I haven't thought of? All replies are welcome, I need the help!

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/M7_LSS.htm

I've owned several 223's and have some thoughts. Remingtons run hot and cold but hold their resale value good. Winchester resale isn't as good. Savage seems to have it together for accuracy from a stock gun and I think it is probably the only gun that the bedding is good from the factory. Rem needs bedded before any serious accuracy can be obtained, Win needs bedded also. So maybe a trigger is cheap?
<br>Before buying any, see if you can check the throat length as they can be awfully long on some.
<br>I'd stay with the mainline guns.
<br>David
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http://www.savagearms.com/centerfire/varmint/varmint_home.htm

I love my VLS, most accurate factory rifle I have ever had.
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<br>Mike

I'd suggest a Ruger M77 MKII. Get the heavy barrel stainless.
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<br>I have one rides the bags well shoots pleanty accurate, looks good holds value. Around $500 or so.

I have had very good luck with a 700vssf and almost any NEW gun will need trigger work to overcome the lawyer triggers in the new ones....the HS precision stock on the vssf only needs the action screws torqued equally and they shoot well and consistantly.....mine with BR type handloads and 20xLeupold scope off bags at 100yds will shoot high .2 and low .3 five shot groups on good wind days if I do my part and under .5 all day long........good scope and base/ring setup is necessary to get good results from any gun-ammo combo....good luck and good shooting!!!

I've had most the 223's you mention and would not be nervous betting that all are capable of shooting MOA at 200yds,with good factory fodder.
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<br>If it were my money,I'd buy the VLS. I think it is the most Remington accuracy,for the money. I generally bob the barrels back on the 223's,as 26 inches of tube isn't to my liking on a cartridge,that only burns 30-ish grs of propellant. A 22" barreled VLS,is a very handy rifle and balances rather well for offhand.
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<br>I'd opt the VLS,Black Hills ammo and a Leupie scope. Pretty tidy package,in my opinion..................

Having owned three .223's and been around alot of them owned by friends, I add my two cents.
<br> I'll agree that any of the above will do. The Savages tend to need more tweaking than the others. But you pay less for them in the beginning.
<br> I'd get a stainless barrel over a CM one.
<br> I'd get a good scope - 8-12X with good mounts. My favorite would be the 12X Leupold. It comes now fully multi coated (MC4).
<br> I'd go for a synthetic stock with a built in bedding block or a wood stock, not a cheap synthetic.
<br> I'd go for a heavy barrel, for your intended uses, over a sporter weight.
<br> You'll need to get the trigger adjusted, reworked or replaced. If the stock has no bedding block system, I'd glass the action and first inch of the barrel shoulder.
<br> You will find satisfaction, and loads of fun with such a rig. E

Having to replace the trigger on the Savage is not a gaurantee. I bought a 12BVSS in 223 about 3 months ago and was able to safely adjust the trigger to just over 2 lbs. The first Savage I bought I did have to buy the sharpshooter trigger, as I could not get the factory trigger to less than 5 lbs safely. A friend just bought his own 12BVSS in 223 and he fussed with his trigger and got to well under 2 lbs. safely. While breaking in the barrel, with less than 20 rounds down the barrel, he is shooting 3 shot groups that are under 3/4" with Winchester white box varmint ammo from Walmart, the 45 gr. 40 round package. He will handload for it, as do I for mine, but that seems like pretty good performance for a brand new out of the box rifle. My rifle will shoot the factory ammo into about an inch at 100 yards. He is also a better shooter than I am, no doubt in my mind. Remember, that no matter which rifle you buy, leave enough in your budget to get good optics. The scope will be a huge factor in your group size. I have a Swift scope on mine, and he put a B&L 4200 Elite on his. At 24x, his is noticeably sharper, with better resolution than the Swift premier at both 100 and 200 yards, which is as long as our range goes. To get the best from any of the rifles you mentioned, you will need good optics. Just my thought on the matter. 4fun

I saw a CZ yesterday in HB. First one I have seen. That might be the one to seriously consider. It had a synthetic stock and matte finished bbl. Looked good to me. Price was 628. I forgot to ask if rings came with it.

I'm fairly sure that any of the choices mentioned will fulfill your relatively modest accuracy requirements but if money is a factor, get a Savage HV or tactical and forget it. On any one rifle it is a crap shoot, but given 6 of each of your choices, factory fresh, I think the Savage will be the most accurate and for a fair amount less money.
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<br>However, the Howas are on sale now, and I would seriously consider one of them as well, probably for less money than the Savage. I'm ordering a hunting weight in 6.5x55 for $350 delivered, profit and tax to a dealer buddy of mine for me. They have a good reputation lately.
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<br>If money is not a factor, but you don't want to go full house custom, consider a Cooper. Plain jane varmint versions run about a grand, and usually shoot the lights out. They are guaranteed to shoot 3 shot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with "precision ammo", whatever that means.

If you decide to get a Savage then you should get the FVSS.
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<br>http://www.savagearms.com/centerfire/varmint/12vss.htm

Thanks for all the replies! I still feel strongly both ways (confused). If money was an bigger issue, I'd go Savage, but I can go an extra hundred or two for a gun I hope to enjoy for the next 20 years and then give to my boys. I might go Rem. 700 VLS, but I like the idea of bedded composite stock, and no J-lock whatever it is. I really don't like the idea of replacing trigger/stock/barrel, I just want a good stock gun. This has brought into play the Tikka Continental, recommended by some on this forum.
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<br>I haven't ruled anything out really, Win. 70 Stealth, Rem 700 VLS (could have it bedded, don't want to pay to have j-lock removed), Savage 10fp or 12bvss (not the prettiest girls at the dance), and Tikka Continental (maybe I won't have to do anything to it, just overpay for base/rings). Decisions, Decisions? But a good problem to have. I want to get it right, as I don't like to trade guns, I only want one good .223.

You need a Sako 75 varmint........ enough said!

I'll second or third or fourth .... the recomendation for the Tikka Continental. I have one in .22-250 and I love it. I don't think you can find a better shooting rifle (about 1") using cheap Win (white box) ammo, with a better trigger (right @ three pounds with no creep) for $550!!! Great Rifle!!
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<br>The only thing I don't like about it is the fact that the magazine is all plastic.
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<br>Good Luck with the choice
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<br>George
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Check these Howa's out from Legacy Sports. They were field tested in 308 Win and 223 Rem with factory ammo and were punching 3 shot groups in the .38" and .45" out of the box.
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<br>link [/url]

I've had very good luck with Howa's in general and in the 223 chambering in particular.
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<br>But,MY money would be headed in the direction of a 700................

BS,
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<br>I suppose the biggest drawback of the Howa is aftermarket triggers. There are a few companies now making some.
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<br>I have had very good success with Howa barreled actions. Since Legacy bought them from Interarms, they have really gotten behind the product. They push custom rifles with Howa actions (300WSM) and have struck up deals with Boyds for custom sporter and varminter stocks.
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The Howas I had,wore triggers that suited me. I could get them down to a respectable level,with no trouble. They weren't the BEST in the world,but were very practical and I can't cuss them.
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<br>No flies on the Howa. It just ain't a Remington..................(grin)
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