Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles All around rifle weight and the accuracy expectations of an RC rifle

I am looking to buy an all around rifle, do anything anywhere.

Due to my vast lack of experience, I would like to get some opinions of those that have done...especially if you live in hunt in some of the places I want to go....Montana...Colorado...etc. for Elk and Mule Deer.


My last project failed as I could not get it to shoot the way I wanted without a barrel replacement, so I am very concerned about getting another rifle that does the same. One MOA, consistently, is my rock bottom requirement, and would not exactly thrill me. The why's would take too long to go through, but suffice it to say, 3 shots in 1 moa with handloads is rock bottom for what I am wanting, and would really like better. I could live with it, but would be disappointed. Call it idiosynchratic, but it's important to me for no good reason, perhaps.

Going semi custom at this point is probably not in the (financial) cards...just had to buy a new vehicle, so money is tight.

I have pretty much settled on a 300 win mag for this purpose, the overall flexibility wins out. I can load down to 3006 levels with lighter bullets like 168's, or up to 215's or whatever as needed.

Weight wise, I just don't know, that's a major problem. This rifle will be used in everything from stands to (hopefully) chasing elk in Montana and Colorado, to Aoudad in West Texas. I have not done these things, the closest was crawling through canyons in west texas looking for Mouflon with a 10.25lb 375 15 years ago. It was somewhat heavy then, but not bad. But these last 15 years have been hard on me, so I don't know that's a good idea. I will say, I don't like shooting light rifles, I can't get them settled down so well, I do prefer a bit of weight and maybe a little front heavy so it 'hangs'.

Stock wise, two stocks fit me properly. The Weatherby style, and best of all, the M40. There are probably others, but they are Manners or McM...and these are too costly and hard to find for me. The standard straight comb does not work well for my build, I need a fair amount of drop at heel and toe, mated to a high comb, the higher, the better. The M40 is the best I have tried so far, if it had a cheekpiece, it would be absolutely perfect. The Weatherby comes next.

So because of that, right now, I am considering 1 Remington and 4 Weatherby choices.

But am having a difficult time picking out the best way to go rifle wise, a great deal due to the weight issue.

My number one choice is a Remington 5R I found. It was an Accusport special run with a fluted barrel, cerekoted (I believe) and an M40 stock. It is, to me, perfect and beautiful in every way...except it weighs in at just under 9 lbs naked according to the store's scale. With the HD5 I own from the last rifle, with rings, I am probably looking at a 10.25 to 10.5lb rifle, unloaded. That seems like way too much when people are talking 6-8.5lb rifles for on foot elk hunting.

For the Vanguard, there are 4 different options I am considering and I'd love some opinions.

One is an RC rifle, this one is the 'safe bet' choice. I have located one at a good price where they actually have the box right there and they sent me a scan of it's target. It was .72" with "Prograde" ammo, shooting a 168 ttsx. For an RC gun, I was hoping for better, and done with heavier bullets....180's to 215's are probably what I will shoot most. Maybe I am expecting too much, anyone know what RC's usually do accuracy wise? I was expecting something closer to .5" for the premium you pay.
Weight wise, with my Zeiss, I expect it to be right at 9lbs. I could lower that by sending it in and having the ultra-light stock put on....I dont care for the green stock anyway. So has anyone seen a lot of the RC's targets, and can you tell me how they shoot?

Second is my Vanguard heart's desire, an Accuguard. I'd cerekote it and it would be perfect. Problem is 1) the weight 2) know how it will shoot 3) Yeah, the weight. The specs claim 8.75 lbs, but it did not feel that way at Cabelas. I'll go back with a scale soon to check it for real myself. Assuming specs are right, i would be looking at a 10.25lb rifle. That's alot. I could cut that .75lbs to 9.75 by sending it to Weatherby and having the ultralight stock put on (maybe, they'd have to open the channel, and they may not be able to). But it might become badly unbalanced if I did that.

So third choice is a light rifle...a back country. If I knew for sure these would shoot well, i would probably go that route, as it's my second most liked vanguard choice. But most or all of the reviews I have read, the accuracy is not there. Only one did well, the rest were not hitting the spot for me. I wonder if that fluted barrel is just too flexible, I don't know. So that one, as beautiful as it looks, really worries me from the accuracy standpoint. And yes, I know it is 'guaranteed', but seriously, that's hard to prove/deal with. And it could pull one .99 group once with 150 grain bullets and that's it, and it will have met the requirement and I am screwed.

Last choice, econo choice...medium risk...buy a standard in either blue or stainless. Shoot it and see if it works. If it does, send it on to WB for the ultralight stock or just install a standard B&C, and go from there. My son's 270 is a consistent .5" shooter with handloads, so I could get lucky too, though pulling that off with a 300 magnum will be more of a trick. Or I could have a poor shooter that I have to sell at a loss...again. But at least it would be the cheapest of the vanguards to lose on. I know that's the world of rifles, but I am trying to hedge my bets here.

So what are y'all's thoughts....one...what do RC's generally get....72 does not impress me enough to jump in the car and drive 4 hours to get the one I found somewhat locally, but maybe I am jaded and...

Weight wise...what do you all think?

10.5 lbs sounds like just too much, but I just don't have the experience to make that decision. If it is not, and carrying it on a pack or on one of those triathalon slings will do it, I'm on my way to by that 5r...or at least the accuguard. But I have a feeling, from what I've read, I'll regret that weight. I need to hear from those that have, and looking through all the posts on rifle weight...well, I am afraid I might not get a good enough consensus, but I'll try and hopefully some of you experienced hunters who go deep on foot can help me out.

Thanks!

In spite of your preconceived notions................

Win Mod 70 Featherweight

Older Rem 700 Mountain Rifle

Rem 700 Ti

270 Win, 280 Rem, 7-08 Rem. Good bullets are the key.

All will work well on everything up to & including moose; I kow because I've done it.

MM

What is an RC?

Thanks for the response!

I don't disagree with you on the caliber, though the stocks on these are also all wrong for me, but I have decided on a 30 caliber for a couple of reasons. One, I like bigger bullets. I usto shoot a 375 alot, but it was too hard to make it do all I wanted. But I enjoy the horsepower, needed or not. Another is there are several hunts that I might have a chance at that require a 30 cal due to outfitter rules. The rule is outdated but widely held, and that's the way it goes. There are others too, but suffice it to say, I'm pretty settled on a 30.

So that being said, I gather by your rifle choices, you lean towards the lower or mid weight choices and would shy away from a 10 lb or so rifle. I suspect you will be in the vast majority!

You really, really don't need or want a 300 Mag.

Find a rifle that weighs around 8 lbs. all up, that also fits well, chambered for something like what MontanaMan mentioned.

Practice a lot.

If you're not in shape, work on that.

Why bother asking if your mind is already made up.

MM

If a rifle has a 30 caliber minimum (for elk), find a different outfitter.

+1

Bullet & shot placement is key, not necessarily caliber.

MM

I have a feeling this wasn't so much a question as a "I want you guys to confirm what I already decided" type of post by the OP.

No, it was a 'I already know many things I want, here are a couple things I have not decided upon' question. It was not an open ended question. I have decided on some things and I did not seek confirmation of these things nor pose them as questions, I was requesting help on the things I have not decided upon.

In case my rambling post was not clear, I did not ask for different calibers, or different stocks, different rifles, or different standards of accuracy needed to shoot elk and game etc. I asked about weight and the different choices within the Vanguards, as well as the accuracy expections of the RC's.

That's what this post is about.

Thank you for your opinions on weight, sounds like lighter is where you both want to be.

The RC are the 'range certified' Vanguards that they test fire. Of course, all VG's are 'guaranteed' to shoot .99 MOA, but maybe they do and maybe they don't, you have to figure that out and prove it if they don't.

The RC guns get an upgraded stock from B&C, then are test fired with the target included in the box with the ballistic info, ammo used etc.

The idea is that for about 300 extra bucks, you get the better stock, lug bedded, and the gun test fired.

Of course, reality is, does not mean it will shoot that well with the ammo you want to shoot, or shoot that well all the time, but it is better than a paper guarantee that I suspect is very hard to collect on. And really, the cost of the stock from Stocky's plus a quick bed job will cover the difference it would cost me to go from a standard VG to what the RC has.

An 8 lb 300 mag is no fun.

But neither is packing a 10 lb. rifle all day.

Oh ok. I'm aware of the range certified guns, I just didn't understand your nomenclature.

Yeah, I look at the recoil numbers and compare it to my last 375, and it does not look too bad....the last one I had was not the 10.25 pounder I mentioned, but one that was 9 lb's all up. I was shooting 260's at 2800 fps and 250's faster. 300's were going 2600 or better.

All off the bench as I was trying to work up loads, accuracy test etc.

It was pretty ferocious, but not as bad as the 9lb 458 I had!

Anyway, lower recoil is ALWAYS better for me, especially as I am not so young anymore.

But I just moved on the 375 recently, so the recoil levels of the 300 look pretty good right now. And I can handload them down to near 3006 levels should I decide to go that route.

A close friend of mine went the "300 mag since it'll be an all around gun" way. At the time there was no telling him otherwise. It wasn't too long before it went down the road.

catorres1, With your preference for larger bore rifles, have you considered a .338 Win. Mag. I'm a model 70 fan, so that's my suggestion, shop for a stainless New Haven rifle. They can be found at reasonable prices. Restock to fit your needs. My wife's rifle weighs under 9#,scoped, loaded and slung. Shoots plenty flat enough for most any situation. We're running Barnes 225 TTSX's at 2950, which is pretty good velocity, sub 3" groups @ 300 yrds.(even with the cheap, plastic, Mattel look-alike Win. stock)and flat trajectories. Shoots flatter, hits harder than a .375 H&H at extended ranges with very manageable recoil. What's not to like about it!!!! memtb

I have Sako 85 finnlight in 300 win mag. It will punch three rounds of any bullet I have tried less than an inch. It will punch three 165 nosler partitions or BT's in .5-.6. It weighs 7lbs 10oz with Leupold 3.5-10x40mm.

The 300 win mag is a fine all around cartridge contrary to what some have posted here.

If the Sako stock works for you it will be the finest rifle you have ever owned. In a factory rifle they can not be beat in my opinion.

Dink

How many 300 win mags have you owned? How many rounds down range?

Dink

I have considered that caliber, and really seriously thought it over. But in the end, I decided to just go with the 300. Honestly, I like big holes, I like how my 375 killed. But in the end, for various reasons, I decided on the 300.

Great idea, however, great cartride, one of my favorites!

I did consider the finlite. Looked at one several times....reaallllly looked at one.

But the fit, while better than my previous rifles, it just is not as good as the ones I mentioned. That is why I have chosen those particular rifles. The stocks fit.

I know I can have some other brand rifles put into BC Weatherby stocks, (unfortunately, m40's are only for larger contour barrels). Thought about a Tikka or A7, but rejected them for this application due to their short magazines and my desire to be able to shoot longer bullets. Vanguards have longer mags...able to shoot 300 WBY out of them, so it should work pretty well. Rems are long too as I remember, so these are the reasons I have chosen these rifles.

Anyway, overall, sounds like you are for a lighter rifle as well...