Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters How not to treat a Man

As most know, Jeff Cooper has passed away.

Having our input challenged isn't the objection. And the problem isn't limited to what writers are subjected to. The problem is the appalling, often vicious rudeness that anyone here is exposed to. Writers aren't the only ones who don't enjoy coming here. I hear from lurkers who dip into the forum only occasionally, who say that they're coming here less and less frequently because of the unpleasantness that they don't find appealing.

Gossip, name-calling, back-biting, quarreling, slander, cattiness, etc do have their "onions, leeks, and garlicks" appeal to some folks � but not to everybody. Ordinary civility is offensive to only the most small-minded bottom-feeders of the world.

when i first started viewing the campfire it was with the hope of learning from and exchanging information with folks who have more knowledge and experience than i do. the opportunity to read what the professionals have to say is uniquely valuable. it seems that this ought to be possible in a civil and congenial manner that is a benefit to everyone.i don't have the depth of knowledge or the experience of most of the posters and have learned something from almost every section of the campfire.it is unfortunate that things are in such a state that other writers are reluctant to participate.
while i am completely in favor of folks expressing themselves, i believe these forums should remain civil and respectful.

Forgot to add that the problem isn't confined to this forum. I no longer go to the "Christ at the Campfire" forum, for example, which you'd expect to be as polite as possible. Instead, it has been characterized frequently by some of the most vicious, insulting exchanges of vitriol that I've seen anywhere.

Ken: I think your efforts are paying dividends. At least it seems to me that there is less pointless bickering going on on around the fire than there was in the past. Thank you!

Ken, through all 3 of these How To Treat threads I continualy got the feeling that you were blameing the memembers for other writers not wanting to join in here, but maybe some just don't like the writers that are established here.

Do you remember these post by Dan_C_Johnson if not maybe these will refresh your memory:


Dan_C_Johnson
Member


Reged: 03/28/02
Posts: 73
Loc: South Carolina
Re: From an Arkansas writer on gun tests. [Re: Mule Deer]
#941234 - 07/26/06 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Some of those gun writers have been mentioned on this thread as being totally honest, so evidently you can fool some readers some of the time.MD



John B
If you are going to trash good men at least have the balls to use their names.

I'm sure I'll catch Hell for this but I'm curious. You have built quite a fan club for yourself here by repeatedly bashing other writers while praising yourself. My question is: When you are sharing a manufacturer sponsored hunt camp with these other writers and pretending to be their friend, do you ever feel a twinge of guilt for all your backstabbing?


Dan_C_Johnson
Member


Reged: 03/28/02
Posts: 73
Loc: South Carolina
Re: From an Arkansas writer on gun tests. [Re: Ken Howell]
#941465 - 07/26/06 04:58 PM
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Quote:
So what are you doing here, Dan, that's so different from what you're bashing John for?



I'd say there is a lot of difference between responding to a man to his face and taking potshots at him behind his back. JB chose this venue, not me. I will also point out I am only discussing his behavior on the forum. I would never trash his work or any other aspect of his life on an open forum. That is a professional ethic that seems to be very much lacking on this forum.

I'd be happy to discuss my opinions with John over drinks at the next SHOT Show. Maybe we can invite Wayne and Bryce to join us and he tell them to their faces how dishonest he feels they are.


Dan_C_Johnson
Member


Reged: 03/28/02
Posts: 73
Loc: South Carolina
Re: to Bryce Towsley & Dan Johnson: [Re: Ken Howell]
#943005 - 07/27/06 09:01 PM
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Well said, Ken, but incorrect on a couple points.

You and I have met. We sat alone at a table at the Winchester Pre-SHOT Show event two years ago and talked for over an hour.

Also, this is not a Wolfe/G&A feud. Bryce doesn't write for G&A and I've about quit myself. John does draw a line in the sand though as anyone who reads his posts regularly can see. Wolfe writers are praised and defended while all others are fair game.

So be it. You and John set the tone of this forum. It is you and John that repeatedly criticize other writers, question their ethics, gossip about everything from their drinking habits to their business dealings.

Now when a couple writers take exception to this long string of insults it is we who are out of line. It is we who are causing problems.

One other thing that seems to be misunderstood. I didn't come here to pick on John. I've been here since the beginning. My current registration dates back over four years and it's my second. I had to reregister due to a software glitch on the forum.

I don't post much partly because I am busy with another forum and partly because of the mean spirited writer bashing that goes on here, both by some members and by you and John.

So blame Bryce and me if you like, but people in the industry are wising up to what this place really is and what you and John are doing here.

Sorry, but my candy coating machine is on the fritz.

Quote: "Sorry, but my candy coating machine is on the fritz." ~ jwp475

-----

Gee, I'm sorry to hear that. When did it happen? Recently?

You did not read the post very well because the quote that you posted is not mine and I can not take credit for something that I did not say the quote is Dan_C_Johnson's

My mistake, jwp475. My apologies.

On another note (to all), it seems that Ken would like more gunwriters to come here to share their knowledge and converse with the members. It doesn't seem to me that he wants them on a pulpit to preach down to the masses, as some seem to fear. But he realizes that some won't likely appear if they're cast into the Colosseum of old, either, where they're gonna have to be gladiators instead of companions.

I can't figure out why that's so darned hard to understand. How in the world did some people here ever make friends?

You couldn't be more wrong. I like John and respect his work immensely. Good men can disagree. There's nothing wrong with that. What you didn't see on that thread was four or five pages of us arguing just to be arguing. We settled the matter quickly and let it go. Next time I run into John on the circuit I'm confident the meeting will be a friendly one and we'll likely laugh about our little row here.

As to the forum in general, the problem is not that people disagree. That is healthy. The problem, as with any forum, is a small percentage of people who for one reason or another are spoiling for a fight and care nothing of courtesy or fair play. These people are commonly called Trolls and until management decides to deal with them there will never be peace here.

Some people can not be reasoned with.

Dan C Johnson,
"Some people can not be reasoned with. "

Name some?

"These people are commonly called Trolls and until management decides to deal with them there will never be peace here."

Never Happen, move on..

You came here with thin skin and ready to rumble. You can bet your a** nothing is going to change here just because you showed up.

Some people make pretty good money writing and selling. Some make enough to pay for some new toys now and then and they're satisfied. Some will get no closer to that than spending endless hours typing into their computer innane little complaints and comiserations, and they will also be satisfied.

Me, I like to have the magazines pay for my new toys.

Dan

Me, I like to have my neighbor's wife pay for my new toys......grin

Dan, IIRC, you redeemed your integrity by apologizing and changing your tune � a marvelous and admirable example for others to note and to emulate, proof that you're not one of those here who can't be reasoned-with. (One has but to peruse the three "how not to ... " threads to see who they are.)

Thanks!

(Just wanted you to know that I noticed and appreciate that.)

Each of us has several opportunities to discipline our posts:

� the time that it takes to type a comment (including the option to refrain from posting it � which I frequently choose to do)
� the time that we have for repeatedly previewing and revising that comment (including the option to abandon it � which I frequently choose to do))
� the "edit" button that allows us to revise, to correct, or to delete what we've already posted (which I frequently choose to do)

So it's not the same as if we we're speaking rashly and can not "squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube" or "put the meow back into the cat." What's posted here and stays here without apology, correction, retraction, revision, or deletion is intended to stay here as-posted.

Case in point.

1

"self-satisfied coprophages"

Ouch. Reminds me of a worthless lemon and white pointer named Bud....


I've waded thru a number of these threads recently "...how to treat..." one thing or another. JMO, what you need is to understand that with as many numbers as the site has you're going to get crude life forms in the water supply now and then. It may smack of something distasteful to ban someone for this but you'll either do it or the forum and perhaps the site will die a slow embarassing death. Perhaps there is a conflict betwixt being a writer and using Thor's Hammer....put somebody in charge that isn't a writer an IS tired of endless flamming BS and tell 'em to get-r-done. The site can spare some azzholes but it cannot continue to support them. Hey, this could be the first forum with an anonymous hit man.... My .02 worth.

Ken;

You replied to me, but I'm thinking you were intending to reply to Dan Johnson.

Dan

Then I owe you both an apology � which I offer most sincerely and hope that you both accept (and forgive me � it ain't easy bein' senile!).

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Although there are 12255 members here, my best guess is we have 500 or less active posters. When the hit man gets going we will have 200 or less active posters. I'm sure he will get me as my nose is white.