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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,847
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,847 |
I thought it was Al Gore.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
I thought it was Al Gore. For that comment Rev.... GO TO YOUR ROOM!!
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670 |
Very amusing. I love the sense of "hummer"
But:
Calling the .270 Winchester an invention requires some clarification.
Short Answer:
The .270 Winchester was "developed" by Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1923 and introduced/unveiled in 1925.
I'll repeat that Ken Howell claims to know about 5,000 cartridges and postulates that there may be as many as 10,000. And coincidence to European metrics is just that.
The long answer:
The .270 Winchester is but one of numerous cases that have the same head dimensions, case dimensions near base and differ only in caliber and finished length and shoulder. These are offshoots of/from the old, venerable .30-06 Springfield developed for the US Army in 1906. The 30 designates caliber. The 06 the year of introduction 1906.
Just some, not all, cases that are formed from the Mother 30-06 are:
.22-250 .250-3000 .25-06 .270
And from there many more, including custom and wildcat in US measuring system as well as some in metrics that also "fit".
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755 |
Your google skills are awesome!
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,115
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,115 |
Actually, I believe the 270 Win had the same parent case as the 30-06. That would be the short lived 30-03. Note that both have long necks. The other '06 wildcats probably started with the '06 case. jmho Tim
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 10 |
Yes, the .270 eventually resulted from the .30-03, but there was a stop along the way. After the Springfield became the U.S. military rifle, Winchester could see the coming importance of the bolt action. They developed their own bolt rifle and planned to first introduce it in Europe, for some reason (they always did have something of a presence in Europe, partly die to John Browning).
The rifle was in the works around 1912, and very much resembled the eventual Model 54, with a European-style Schnabel-tipped stock. The cartridge was essentially the .30-03 necked to take a .288 (not .284) bullet.
But during the plans to start commercial production something eventually called World War One broke out, and the project was scrapped until after the war. Europe was so messed up by then that the rifle became the Model 54 Winchester and appeared here. The new cartridge's bore-size was changed to .277, reportedly to keep people from rechambering the many pre-'98 Mausers in 7x57 then becoming common in the U.S., due to so many coming across the Mexican border. Their actions weren't considered strong enough for the new Winchester cartridge.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 148
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 148 |
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Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3 |
I've always thought that they didn't want '98s to be re-chambered so they could sell Winchester rifles, but I'm a suspicious old man.
Whatever the reason, the happy result is the perfect bullet diameter, or it would be if the bullet folks would stop favoring those inferior diameters just above and below .277.
I'll just nip off to my bomb shelter now.
Last edited by Pappy348; 08/21/15.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 746
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 746 |
Any relation to Savage_99?
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3 |
Got him on Ignore. His posts make my head hurt.
I'd rather read the Complete Annotated Posts of Boxer/Big Stick than wade through another of his.
Last edited by Pappy348; 08/21/15.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
AFAIK the 270 Win was developed by/for Winchester and that made it a proprietary cartridge. I certainly have read the details about it development but can't recall them. There are certainly those here who can supply all the historical details. _________________________ B R H -- Finally we get a 'definitive' 'historically correct' answer. Thnx MD for the specifics. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Posts: 9,730
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,730 |
I always thought the .270 was developed by some ancient fat guy in a leopard skin thong named Ingwe who lives in Montana as a replacement for the hoary old 7x57 Mauser. Nah, ingwe just perfected it. The 270 Winchester was actually the result of an idea by freethinker and sometimes inventor, Benjamin K. Tibbey, from Kentucky. He called it, appropriately enough, the 'Tibbey Wetless Combuster'. It actually predated black powder cartridge rifles. It was an enclosed breech system that used a .275 inch bullet, pushed by black powder. Everything was held in place with a copper cylinder. It was called 'wetless' because the combuster sat inside a sealed chamber, protected from inclement weather and rough handling. No more wet powder! It used a skinny, nail shaped flint for a firing pin which struck a metal mesh screen located at the base of a black powder filled, copper cylinder. That created the spark which ignited the powder. At first blush, many 19th century shooters suggested that the Tibbey Wetless Combuster was a forerunner of the BP cartridge loading rifles. Later BP cartridge guns shared one or two of the same characteristics as Tibbey’s Wetless Combuster. The trouble was, while Ben Tibbey was known as a sometimes inventor, he was also known locally as a ‘really bad’ sometimes inventor. Here’s an example. One of Ben’s bad inventions was the Tibbey Apple Corer. It was a simple machine - a spinning drill bit, mounted to a table. A foot pump caused the bit to rotate. While boring out the core was smart, the execution was poor. The operator had to hold the apple in the palm of her hand and push it onto the rotating bit. Needless to say, most of the corers had accidents. All were women, and became known as Tibbey’s Maidens. No man wanted to marry a woman with only one good hand. But I digress. Tibbey's Wetless Combuster was a very inefficient system that went the way of the Dodo. Still, one has to wonder... Tibbey tried unsuccessfully to sue the manufacturers of several early bolt action rifles. His reputation as a really bad inventor preceeded him however, and that had a huge influence on the court's rulings. He died at the age of 51, killed by a spinster who had worked for him years earlier, coring apples. He was stabbed in the heart with a rusty bit from a Tibbey Apple Corer. The fatal blow was delivered using the woman’s good hand.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,104 |
Steve, you been sniffing Cordite again??
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Posts: 215
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 215 |
Whoever invented it, he or she was some kind of a genius!
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Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
Could have sworn it was Lee 24
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3 |
That's Steve's High School yearbook photo. The 60's were really tough for some guys.
Last edited by Pappy348; 08/21/15.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
A better question would be, WHY? Yep... nothing but a wannabe 30-06...
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 10 |
Too bad Dober doesn't post anymore. He called the .270 Winchester "the .30-06 Improved"....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
Yeah! I miss Dober. He had a lot of knowledge and a great sense of humor.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,207
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,207 |
Too bad Dober doesn't post anymore. He called the .270 Winchester "the .30-06 Improved".... Why did he stop posting?
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