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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,748
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,748 |
in my opinion,wolf season should never close. I wasn't aware that it did. That's news to me.
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,672 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,672 Likes: 1 |
If only 1 out of 4 bucks are making it to "maturity", how do you know you're not shooting the one that will make it? Would that not mean that 0 out of 4 make it to "maturity"?
You are removing bucks from the herd that nature/time has not had enough opportunity to tell you which one of the four is the fittest.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,739
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,739 |
If only 1 out of 4 bucks are making it to "maturity", how do you know you're not shooting the one that will make it? Would that not mean that 0 out of 4 make it to "maturity"?
You are removing bucks from the herd that nature/time has not had enough opportunity to tell you which one of the four is the fittest. That's a good question! Something that people who cannot grasp even get a grasp on more or less deer can't see. Study additive and compensatory mortality in population dynamics for the answer. In simplistic terms, if you only had four buck deer to begin with your question might be answered with yes, it could possibly kill the last buck by shooting one of the four. In reality, it works very well because one of the things that happens is pressure makes survivors much more wary and increases the survival odds of the other three. This is most easily observable in ruffed grouse. In down years, they become very, very difficult to kill. Even with very good dogs. They become runners and will flush wild. There is no hunter mortality to worry about with them and they can be hunted without affecting the population at all in down down years. Same with pheasants in roosters only states. That's why bucks only seasons don't decrease deer population (or practically speaking the buck population), but rather increase them (more vs fewer). Shoot the does and you reduce the population and reduce the number of bucks. Shoot the bucks born that year, the deer in the herd most likely to die that year, and you virtually cannot hurt the deer population unless you have a very small population or, they are extremely isolated. Capiche?
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
If only 1 out of 4 bucks are making it to "maturity", how do you know you're not shooting the one that will make it? Would that not mean that 0 out of 4 make it to "maturity"?
You are removing bucks from the herd that nature/time has not had enough opportunity to tell you which one of the four is the fittest. That's a good question! Something that people who cannot grasp even get a grasp on more or less deer can't see. Study additive and compensatory mortality in population dynamics for the answer. In simplistic terms, if you only had four buck deer to begin with your question might be answered with yes, it could possibly kill the last buck by shooting one of the four. In reality, it works very well because one of the things that happens is pressure makes survivors much more wary and increases the survival odds of the other three. This is most easily observable in ruffed grouse. In down years, they become very, very difficult to kill. Even with very good dogs. They become runners and will flush wild. There is no hunter mortality to worry about with them and they can be hunted without affecting the population at all in down down years. Same with pheasants in roosters only states. That's why bucks only seasons don't decrease deer population (or practically speaking the buck population), but rather increase them (more vs fewer). Shoot the does and you reduce the population and reduce the number of bucks. Shoot the bucks born that year, the deer in the herd most likely to die that year, and you virtually cannot hurt the deer population unless you have a very small population or, they are extremely isolated. Capiche? Your "math" only works when the doe:buck ratio is less than 6:1 at most, optimally 5:1 or less. Any more does than that and you have does going unbred. QDM would be a good idea for you to look into, as your approach is counter-productive to legitimate herd management.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,672 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,672 Likes: 1 |
If only 1 out of 4 bucks are making it to "maturity", how do you know you're not shooting the one that will make it? Would that not mean that 0 out of 4 make it to "maturity"?
You are removing bucks from the herd that nature/time has not had enough opportunity to tell you which one of the four is the fittest. That's a good question! Something that people who cannot grasp even get a grasp on more or less deer can't see. Study additive and compensatory mortality in population dynamics for the answer. In simplistic terms, if you only had four buck deer to begin with your question might be answered with yes, it could possibly kill the last buck by shooting one of the four. In reality, it works very well because one of the things that happens is pressure makes survivors much more wary and increases the survival odds of the other three. This is most easily observable in ruffed grouse. In down years, they become very, very difficult to kill. Even with very good dogs. They become runners and will flush wild. There is no hunter mortality to worry about with them and they can be hunted without affecting the population at all in down down years. Same with pheasants in roosters only states. That's why bucks only seasons don't decrease deer population (or practically speaking the buck population), but rather increase them (more vs fewer). Shoot the does and you reduce the population and reduce the number of bucks. Shoot the bucks born that year, the deer in the herd most likely to die that year, and you virtually cannot hurt the deer population unless you have a very small population or, they are extremely isolated. Capiche? I fully understand those terms and I still do not see your logic. Your "reality" would have to take in assumptions, such as the one you posted about being wary, that I cannot accept.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,739
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,739 |
Your "math" only works when the doe:buck ratio is less than 6:1 at most, optimally 5:1 or less. Any more does than that and you have does going unbred.
QDM would be a good idea for you to look into, as your approach is counter-productive to legitimate herd management.
Sweet Jesus!!! Show me one county in Minnesota that ever got down to 15% buck component of the deer population. This is exactly what I am talking about not understanding more and fewer.
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