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Campfire Oracle
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http://articulatingideas.blogspot.com/2015/06/carly-fiorina-floors-katie-couric-on.htmlThe truth is, most Americans, most women, most young people, most most Americans, have now come to a point of view that an abortion for any reason at all after five months is a problem. So lets take that common ground. I think our tone matters. We can't be judgemental. We can't be angry. But I also think we have to make sure people understand the extremity on the other side.
COURIC: But you say after five months and you oppose abortion, except in the cases of rape, incest or if the mother's life is in danger.
FIORINA I'm pro-life.
COURIC: So – But what you're saying is that most Americans support it –
FIORINA: Right. So, let's find common ground.
COURIC: So, what is the common ground?
FIORINA: Well, the common ground, clearly, now, if you look at the polls, the common ground is that people believe abortion after five months for any reason at all is wrong. So, good. Let's take the common ground:So Carly lets the polls decide what her stance on abortion is, and her stance is, a good common ground is to allow abortion up to 5 months of a pregnancy.
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Campfire Ranger
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Ah-Oh...! Carly lets the polls decide what her stance on abortion is, and her stance is, a good common ground is to allow abortion up to 5 months of a pregnancy. What a strong 'leader' she'd be...!
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Oracle
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There's no way she can get elected with that stance. Especially after all of the Planned Parenthood videos going around these days.
Abortion isn't an issue that a GOP candidate can straddle the fence on.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Fiorina, like most politicians is in favor of saying what ever the audience at the time wants to hear. How good at side-stepping an issue when it comes up and bites them in the ass will determine whether they are electable!
Phil
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Campfire Oracle
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Fiorina, like most politicians is in favor of saying what ever the audience at the time wants to hear. A huge number of Republican evangelicals are her audience and they don't want to hear that she's okay with abortions up to 5 months. Major blunder on her part.
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Campfire Regular
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With her stance, she is NOT pro life. Time for her to go back to California. Real colors showing now.
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Campfire Ranger
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She wants to find common goal with everything.
She is a middle of the road type person. Pandering to each.
Randy
NRA
Patriot Life Benefactor
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Campfire Tracker
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Sometimes the enemy of good is better. It is good to have an abortion bill that prohibits abortions after 5 months (after that point where the fetus can feel pain) with exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother, than to have no abortion ban at all (which is really what we have now). Secondly, a candidate who wants to ban all abortions has no chance of being elected nationally. So, the effect of taking the extreme position (no abortions, no exceptions) is that the status quo will be maintained ergo, that there will be no restrictions on abortions. Fiorina is not saying early abortions are good; she is saying there is a common ground in the electorate for restrictions on wholesale abortion and we should pursue that common ground by passing legislation that will protect fetuses who can feel pain at abortion. That will result in a substantial reduction in the number of abortions.
Her position then results in fewer abortions, whereas adopting the extreme position (no abortions, no exceptions) results in more abortions because it has zero chance of enactment.
Jordan
Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals".
____________________
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Campfire Oracle
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Bottom line, she can't get the GOP nomination with that position. It's going to blow up in her face when the word gets out.
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Campfire Kahuna
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The bottom line is more her continual pandering and fence sitting. You can't be pro abortion for up to 5 months and then pro life thereafter.
You're either pro-life or you're not. Pro lifers don't get to define life at 5 months or later. Is she now going to have to agree to permit funding for Planned Parenthood for up to 5 months of pregnancy?
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Tracker
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Fiorina, like most politicians is in favor of saying what ever the audience at the time wants to hear.
Phil That's the way I read it as well. I don't see leadership here.
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Campfire Tracker
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Sometimes the enemy of good is better. It is good to have an abortion bill that prohibits abortions after 5 months (after that point where the fetus can feel pain) with exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother, than to have no abortion ban at all (which is really what we have now). Secondly, a candidate who wants to ban all abortions has no chance of being elected nationally. So, the effect of taking the extreme position (no abortions, no exceptions) is that the status quo will be maintained ergo, that there will be no restrictions on abortions. Fiorina is not saying early abortions are good; she is saying there is a common ground in the electorate for restrictions on wholesale abortion and we should pursue that common ground by passing legislation that will protect fetuses who can feel pain at abortion. That will result in a substantial reduction in the number of abortions.
Her position then results in fewer abortions, whereas adopting the extreme position (no abortions, no exceptions) results in more abortions because it has zero chance of enactment.
Jordan In this case I agree with Rob , we have to use the inch at at a time approached this year no abortion after 5 months, next year we go for none after 3 months you all get the picture . cheers NC
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
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Campfire Oracle
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You can't get rid of a SCOTUS ruling incrementally. Either Roe vs. Wade get's overturned or it doesn't. A pro abortion candidate like Fiorina isn't going to do anything to challenge Roe vs. Wade.
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Fiorina on Friday:
"At the forum Friday, Fiorina also returned to another strong moment from Wednesday’s debate, demanding that Congress defund Planned Parenthood in the wake of the string of undercover videos that have surfaced showing officials negotiating the price of fetal tissue to be used for research purposes.
“If we will not fight for this, faced with proof positive of the butchery going on at Planned Parenthood, faced with an assault on the character of this nation - it is not actually about whether you’re pro choice or pro life - we cannot be a nation that funds this kind of barbarity, and that’s what it is,” Fiorina said.
She reiterated her call to shut down the government over federal funding for the group.
“With record majorities in the House of Representatives, and a majority in the U.S. Senate, if we do not have the courage to stand up and say, ‘President Obama, if you’re prepared to shut down the government to defend this kind of barbarity, have at it, and explain it to the American people,’ ” Fiorina said.
Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals".
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Campfire Oracle
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She's not going to be able to get away with that much of a flip flop.
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You can't get rid of a SCOTUS ruling incrementally. Either Roe vs. Wade get's overturned or it doesn't. A pro abortion candidate like Fiorina isn't going to do anything to challenge Roe vs. Wade. Bristoe: How do you propose we challenge Roe v. Wade? The only (reasonbly possible) way to do so is to win enough presidential elections that we can appoint enough conservatives justices than when the right case comes up, can result in a reversal of Roe v. Wade in the Supreme Court. We can't reach that result however if we take a position now which cannot possibly result in our winning a national election. You obviously do not comprehend this. BTW, I did not know abortions were such an important issue to you Libertarians. 
Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals".
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Campfire Oracle
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So, she invested in a company which had an investment in another company which had a web site that advertised abortion as safe? Is that all you've got Bristoe! Your desperation practically screams out. The real proponent of abortion here is the one who insist on taking a position so extreme that it will never result in a change in the status quo. That's you Bristoe.
Communists: I still hate them even after they changed their name to "liberals".
____________________
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Campfire Oracle
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So, she invested in a company . She was a board member. Not just a casual investor.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Bottom line, she can't get the GOP nomination with that position. It's going to blow up in her face when the word gets out. I agree. However, there's a bigger picture. I don't believe any candidate far enough to right fringe to win the Republican nomination right now can win the general election. What we get is Hillary or Joe ... thanks for most part to the Tea Party extremists.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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