Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Dogzapper - 280 AI interest

Sorry for the somewhat redundant posts here (already discussed the 270 vs. 30-06 thing) but I am also considering the 280 or 280 AI. Here's the situation:

I have a favorite rifle that will get a new barrel. It's a Winchester push feed action that has lived up until now as a 70 Carbine in 30-06. I will admit to a fondness for the 30-06 right up front. I will have two primary game rifles - this one (whatever it becomes) and a Ruger #1A in 30-06. I am considering the .270, .280, .280 AI, and 30-06 for the build. The rifle will sit in a McMillan featherweight pattern stock and will be done in your basic black. It will wear a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 scope that I already have an like. Edited to add - I am leaning toward a 23" barrel.

I've looked at the advantages of the .270, .280, and 30-06 and I will admit that the difference (in my opinion) comes down primarily to preference. With that in mind I have been leaning toward sticking with the 30-06. It's what I started with and it's what I plan to keep for my "other" rifle.

However I keep being drawn to the .280 AI. Looks like a lot of performance for that action. I think the primary appeal is the "cool factor" and that's OK. I am not all that hung up on 50 - 75 fps gains from one caliber to another. I do, however, think that there are some great .284 bullets out there that could be used effectively in the .280 (or the AI). In addition I have a 30-06 and a 7-08 (for my daughter) that I could share at least some components with if going .280, .280 AI, or 30-06.

The rifle will be an all around gun but I primarily hunt WT deer at relatively short ranges (yes I know that makes all of these round unnecessary). I have hunted pronghorn (once but plan to go again) and would like the rifle to be ready in case I get the chance to do that "someday" elk hunt. It may also shoot some 'yotes and other vermin when the opportunity arises and I'd love to take a black bear hunt in the future. I handload and don't necessarily mind the "hassle" of fireforming.

I know that Dogzapper has written on the .280 AI but I don't have any of those articles. If anyone can point me to a source for them I'd like to give them a read. In addition, opinions are welcome as to the .280AI vs the .280 and the 30-06. Thanks for the input.

Friend Stanimal,

I've shot the .280 Ackley for a long, long time and, at least for me, it has proved itself to be the perfect ballistic balance for North American critters. Obviously, other folks will disagree heartily, and that's fine.

I have my most recent .280 Ackley article on my hard disk and will attempt to send it to you by PM. You won't get any photos and the tabs will be screwed-up, but at least you'll have the words. By the way, I sold only the "one time publishing rights" on the article, so it is mine to give away or to distribute as I see fit; not breaking any copyright laws here (just in case anybody is wondering).

My advice is to give the .280 Ackley a try; you'll never go back.

Steve

Thanks for the info and great article. I had to spend some time reading (and re-reading) the article. I appreciate the follow up. It certainly looks very promising. Might have to try my first AI on this job. Looks like trajectory and power that are tough to top!

Now for a follow up question from the article - what gains do you see from the standard .223 to the AI? I notice you listed it as your favorite varmint caliber and I bought a .223 with the thought that I could always go "AI" if I wanted. I know others here love the .223AI (Big Stick comes to mind) and was curious to hear another opinion. Thanks!

It is looking even better now that Nosler is making brass for it. The fireforming step is probably why most have ignored it.

Stan,

I have three .223 Ackley rifles and my muzzle velocities are about what the average .223 Ackley user reports.

Without the heroics of going to maximum pressures, I get 3,900 to 3,960 fps (depending on barrel) our of 40-grain Ballistics and 3,600 our of 50 Ballistics. The cases simply last forever.

My experience has been that the extreme spread, and corresponding standard deviation, tends to tighten remarkably when rechambering a .223 Remington to .223 Ackley. Also, fireforming .223 Remington ammunition to .223 Ackley is entirely practical in the field. The fireforming accuracy is generally first-rate. Think of it as puffing a case and stopping a heart, all with a single trigger squeeze.

If I had to pick three Ackley cartridges, it would be the .223 Ackley, the .250 Savage Ackley (my wife's little darlin'; when Karen shoots once, there is meat on the ground) and the .280 Ackley.

Steve

I'd really appreciate hearing and learning more about the 250 Savage Ackley someday. It's an item that just speaks to me somehow as a fun, but serious game getter.

Wifey Karen has been one-for-one for more years than either of us care to recount with the .250 Ackley. She shoots 100 Ballistics at about 3,100 fps; no blood-shooting, total penetration on deer/antelope and bang-flop kills. The lady is a bit slow to set up, but she never misses and never-ever had to shoot twice.

The lady simply loves her gun...her .250 Ackley.

Steve

That's a fine photo! She has every reason to be happy, too!

Where should I go for a good intro and more regarding the 250?

Curtis

Can she outshoot you Steve?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Not even close.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So I take it she's not a member here? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Curtis,

I'd suggest my article in The Varnint Hunter magazine Issue #18, April 1996. The article is entitled "A Walking Varminter in .250 Ackley."

Please bear in mind that TVHM is a vertical-interest magazine and the editorial staff is singularly interested in varmint articles. Even so, a demographic study clearly showed that a higher percentage of the readers hunt big game than they do varmints. My personal interest is big game and the article is aimed to totally reflect my interest.

Usually, TVHM issues can be picked up at gun shows for about $1.00, so it shouldn't be too hard to find. I have a new computer and I don't have the article on my current disk. If you draw a blank, just PM me and I'll make a hard copy of the article and snail-mail it to your address (which you'd have to furnish).

Anyway, all of the load data is stuff I've shot and feel comfortable about putting in print. It's honest.

Steve

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You would be right <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Here is another of her victims. It was one of the dreaded "gumbo years," so I had to carry this bugger about two miles off the prairie.

The only problem with having a shootin' wife is they tend to shoot critters in impossible places. Then, it's hubby's job to somehow magically transport the corpus delicious to the truck. It seems like I have spent seven-eights of my life with one of Karen's kills over my shoulder...grunting, hurting and sweating. And I simply would not have it any other way. For sure.

Been married forty-two years to the same hunting woman and have loved every second of it.

Steve

Laugin' here.....that's great!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

OK - I'm in. I have changed the order to a 23" barrel .280 AI. Now when everything arrives and the smith gets it put together (probably around late March) I can start to have some fun. I will have to get dies and "stuff" in the mean time. I might even have to play with the 140 TSX again as it shot so well in my Kimber Montana (7-08). Looking forward to my first AI.

Cool. Winchester Nickel works great. Very consistent and feeds like quicksilver. Besides, it makes you feel like the Lone Ranger <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WSM primers are excellent and recommended.

Be sure the gunsmith knows to make the headspace .003" to .005" short of the standard .280 Remington, so that factory ammo and new brass has a "crush' fit on the shoulder. That way, you won't have to "jam" your bullets in fireforming. You really want the ability to have 100% ignition on factory ammo, in the unlikely event that you somehow end up with no Ackley loads on a trip.

I'm totally here to assist you in any way that I can, so if any questions come up, just holler.

Steve

I have a 7mm/06 AI because the 280 only came in Rem flavor
cases 20 years ago and quality 30/06 cases were rather easy to come by. Now that Nosler and probably others are making 280 AI brass I might rechamber. However I discovered the 284 Win is very close in ballistics short fat and efficient and fits in a short action. So I havent used the AI as much as I once did but I agree with Steve its all one needs for NA big game.
-Doc-

Thanks for the help so far. I am sure when I get closer and actually have the rifle in hand that I will have more questions so I'll take you up on the offer to help. In the mean time I have the tough job of waiting. I think I'll start collecting components ...

I love the "cool" factor with the 280AI. Mine shoots factory 280 Rem loads into less than 1", so I can hunt and fireform at the same time! Steve's comments about the W-W nickel plated brass are worth paying attention to--it feeds like snot through expanded metal and lasts forever. Mine is built on a 700 action, Mcmillan classic stock, shilen trigger, and shilen #3 barrel @ 26".

DZ... great pics!!!!

280_ACKLEY