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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,788
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,788 |
To answer the OP's original question: THIS>>> WAguns.org- Mike Palazzo is when you send back a custom rifle.
"I didn't realize we had so many snipers in this country." by J23
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,872 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,872 Likes: 5 |
I consider it reasonable for a custom hunting rifle to consistently group three hunting bullets into 1" or less at 100 yds with minimal load work. With every bullet and every load, no. I'd say that's quite reasonable, or even a bit lax for a custom, since I've handloaded for a bunch of stock to lightly modified factory rifles which had no problem meeting that specification.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I consider it reasonable for a custom hunting rifle to consistently group three hunting bullets into 1" or less at 100 yds with minimal load work. With every bullet and every load, no. Yes. Missing with such a rifle puts the responsibility elsewhere than the rifle. I doubt I'd want to drag a 1/4" rifle around for hunting. (Granted some might be capable on some days, under certain conditions, but a 1/4" rifle is a shooting tool, not a hunting tool.)
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
You guys do realize that 1/2 inch groups can be acquired by bad shooters getting lucky just that one time.
These are the same guys that when shooting at geese and the fourth one back on the other side of the flock falls, they proudly claim that that was the precise one he was shooting at. I've never seen a bad shooter luck into a 1/2" group. Not saying it can't happen, but I just don't see how it could. A guy who typically groups 3-4" at 100 getting a 2" group, sure, 1/2" not likely.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,057
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,057 |
That's unbelievable!
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
That is a train wreck not a custom gun.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
That is a train wreck not a custom gun. You got sumpin' against custom hammer (and screwdriver, pliers, chisel, file, etc.) forging?
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,788
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,788 |
Not to hijack the thread, jus' saying...
Sadly, there is more- much more. I found the rear scope mount "shimmed" with a tapered .040" piece of aluminum which made the scope mount out of square with the bore. It was so bad that the scope ran out of adjustment trying to zero it...at 25 yards!
"I didn't realize we had so many snipers in this country." by J23
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,135 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,135 Likes: 12 |
I have a proven way to get your desired group. Shoot at least 20 rounds, there will be at least one group of 3 that will meet your goal, call the rest fliers.
Amazing what you can learn on the Campfire...
Don only shoots 1 shot groups. I thought it was 2, but you both are making some good points...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,135 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,135 Likes: 12 |
Accuracy guarantees depend both on the shooter and the maker.
Once tested a .300 Weatherby from a gunsmith who guaranteed 1/2" 5-shot groups with factory ammo. He even sent along some factory ammo to shoot in the rifle. I certainly didn't find that accuracy, but did manage to get one load to group 5 in 3/4" after sorting the ammo for bullet concentricity. When I told the gunsmith my results he said, "I'll take 3/4 inch!"
Much of it depends on whether they specify 3-shot or 5-shot groups. Contrary to what many believe, 5-shot groups will always average larger than 3-shot groups, even from a benchrest rifle, and no, it's not always (or even often) due to barrels warming up but the laws of chance: Three shots aren't enought to demonstrate the actual maximum spread from a certain rifle or load.
This is why a lot of guarantees are for 3-shot groups, and most customers will be satisfied if most 3-shot groups make the guarantee--but the shooter also has to understand several things about bench shooting, including some most people ignore, like wind flags, parallax, and really anal handloading techniques.
Many also mount a brand-new scope on their brand-new rifle, and if the rifle doesn't shoot to the guarantee, how do you know whether it's the rifle or the scope? One custom riflesmith I know constantly has to deal with people whose scopes go bad, but say, "But I spent $1000 on this XXXXX!"
One other comment: I've thoroughly tested not just one but several Jarrett rifles and have yet to encounter one that wouldn't put three shots inside a half-inch consistently with the right load. But you can also make them shoot 2" groups. I know this because the first one I tested, a 7mm-08 AI, came with some handloads supplied by Jarret. Turned out they were loaded by an employee who was a drug abuser who was fired while I was still testing the rifle. I borrowed a set of dies from Kenny and my own handloads shot a lot better. Spot on post John...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,135 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,135 Likes: 12 |
People who have sporter weight rifles shooting hunting bullets that are shooting .250 five shot groups at 100 yards are to be admired and emulated. Wave to them when you see them driving their 22 mpg Suburbans. whelennut My suburban only gets 20...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 670 |
All of this just proves what I have been saying all along.
The crafters can't run jive on 95% of posters here. These are just too smart, too experienced, too knowledgeable.
Thank God for small favors and the truth.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,114 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,114 Likes: 6 |
All of this just proves what I have been saying all along.
The crafters can't run jive on 95% of posters here. Damn!!! I've been saying that too. What are the odds?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
I wonder if this "craftsman" is going blind or hitting Happy Hour? There are to many gigs here to swallow. I would love to hear how he ever got a good reputation.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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