Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General Winchester 1895 in "30 Army"

I've come to own such a gun from a relative that wanted me to own it. He said it'll "Shoot the eye out of an elk at a hundred yards". I know that might be a bit of an stretch, but from that I'll take that he thought it was an accurate gun.

I'll admit, right now - I'm no lever action fan. To me, such guns always seemed antiquated. But, now that I own one, I feel the need to use it. I read the article by Brian Pearce about a big bear guide in Alaska, who's favorite guns were these lever actions.

If I'm going to use this gun, my use, will be to use it un-scoped, as a close-range "big-bear" gun.I'll find a suitable bear to blood it with. I get a bigger charge out of hunting bear than just about anything else anyways.

I know the 30-40 Krag with a 220 grain bullet moving out at 2000 to 2200 fps should be just fine - but I have many rifles that can already do better.

If I'm going to use this thing - I want to pay to turn it into a real "THUMPER"! What cartridges could I re-chamber it to without too much fuss. Take into account the built-in cartridge clip.

If you owned such a gun, and were looking to rechamber (or re-barrel) it to have more "oomph" - what would you do with it? All advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Brian
I'm not up on my variations of Winchester 95, but I'm sure you are correct that the 30 Army is the 30 Krag.
I have two 95s one is 30-06, that originally thought of converting to 375 Whelen, and a 405 Winchester.
The 30-06 is the understudy for the 405. I use cast bullets in both with full charge loads using a 209 grain in the 30-06 and a 350 grain in the 405.
I would bet that it would be easier to convert yours to 405 then converting it to some 30-06 based case.
Have fun the old 95s are accurate.
Jim

The first thing to do is look up the date of manufacture from the serial number, as a clue to what cartridge was the standard at that time.

It could be a .30-40 Krag, which came out in 1892. The Army did order some 1895 Winchesters in that rimmed cartridge.

It could also be the .30 Government, or .30-03, which replaced the Krag in 1903 in the Springfield rifle. That is a totally different cartridge, firing a 220-gr bullet at 2,200 Fps. Some 1895s were also purchased by the Army in that cartridge.

A few years later, the .30-03 had its neck shortened by 0.010 inches, and a new 150-gr bullet at 2,700 fps, our moder .30-06.

So you had better get the chamber gauged and bolt face checked to see if you have a rimmed .30-40 Krag, a .30-03, or a .30-06.

If you cannot find it, send me a PM. I have all the service small arms records at the military museum where I consult.

The 30 U.S. or 30 Army are both the 30-40 Krag. The standard factory load currently available is a 180 grain from Remington and Winchester and they are moving along at around 2400 FPS from most rifles. The 220 Grain handloaded to about 2100 FPS is also a good load. Depending on the condition of the rifle, un-dinked with, could be worth $1500-2000+. Making a modification and rebarreling would turn your gun into a $500 auction gun. The Krag is no slouch as far as a cartridge. Its paper ballistics are slow and due to the magnumitis craze of late, it would be tempting to chop and whittle, but I would first challenge you to take it out for a spin. I own 3 Winchester 1895's in this cartridge and loads with the Hornady 220 grain roundnose have given full penetration on several elk and the Black Bear didn't know what hit him. I also load a 165 gr Spire point in the Carbine and it moves right along at 2550 FPS and will do just about anything you want it to, Mule Deer hate this rifle. If want something more souped up, sell the rifle and buy something else, there aren't that many of these things around to chop it up. Just my thoughts. Ryan

I would never rechamber such a treasure. They are getting scarce. Thanks...Bill.

Yes please don't mess it up,,,to few out there, I have an origional 30-40 krag bolt carbine and it shoots real well with the factory 180 fodder.

Another vote for leaving it alone. If you feel the need to change it, please sell it to a collector. There are newer 95�s available for custom jobs, but original 95�s are getting scarce and spendy. For anything walking North America, the .30-40 with a 220 Woodleigh at moderate ranges is just fine. Wouldn�t be my first choice on Griz, but I would use it for just about anything else. 220�s in the .30-40 and .303 make for a very efficient killer. The long bullet with high sectional density paired with modest velocity means deep penetration with these bullets that expand pretty well.

I understand where you�re coming from. It sound�s like you�re not much of a vintage gun fan, and for guys like you, it�s hard to get excited about 2350fps. Since you�re looking at using it as an open sight gun, you�re half way to the true spirit of the vintage gun aficionados. Go the other half and use the cartridge (and load) it was intended for and you won�t be disappointed.

I have a friend who�s a regular Elk hunter and he generally uses a .300 Wby. This year he used an 1896 Lee Speed (Lee Metford) rifle in .303. The rounded lands and twist rate of that rifle mandated the 215 grain Woodleigh bullet, and the gun really wouldn�t shoot with anything else. However, with the Woodleigh, it cut under an inch at 100 yards with open sights!

Anyhow, he took his elk this year at around 80 yards and he said the .303/215 hit just hard as his .300/200 and that he really couldn�t tell the difference. What�s more, he was just thrilled to hunt with such a classic.

Your �95 is a real classic in every way. It takes a while for it to sink in, but learn to enjoy a vintage gun for the reasons it was created. Pick up a book on Winchester lever rifles and read about your rifle�If not, I�ll start the bidding at $1,000.00

Enjoy.

Thanks guys,

I'm convinced - original, she'll stay. Now I'll just have to find a bear that I can penetrate with a 220 grain Nolser Partition or a 200 grain X bullet. I'm sure that the more I research the gun and its history - the more I'll end up being thankful that I left it as is. I've long ago cured my "magnumitus" when it concerns bullet velocities, now I'll just enjoy the challenge of getting a bit closer, which I like to do with bears anyways. It's more of thrill "up close and personal" and besides it's the only really positive way to make sure they are as big as you hope they'll be.

As far as cheating on the original purpose, I'll confine that to my use of more modern primers, powders and bullets.
When I can I'll post a picture of it - preferably leaning on a big bear.

Thanks again for the advice - it will be heeded.

At the 30-40's speed you may want to consider using the standard hornady 220 gr. roundnose. No need for a premium bullet in your fine rifle.

That's a good point - at lower velocities, is the Hornady the best of the standard bullets in the "penetrator" catagory?

Hornady, Woodleigh, Speer, Sierra.
Try some 180-gr RN Rem CoreLokts. Cheap and work great in those old rifles which were designed for such bullets.

Remington and Winchester still offer ammo for the Krag. That is where I would start.

REMINGTON R30402 REM .30-40 Krag 180gr SP $26.95/box

WINCHESTER X30401 WIN .30-40 Krag 180-gr PP $26.95/box

if it's in good shape I wouldn't touch a thing on it....keep it and shoot it as is.

Glad you made the decision to leave it alone. As someone else said there are modern repro's that a person can use for that. I have a Model 95 in .30-40wcf I bought back in 74'. The rifle was built in 1897-98 and it's in good shape, except for a worn finish. I love this old rifle and I still get goosebumps when I pull it out of the safe. I have another one in ther same caliber built in 1921, but it's been restocked, rebarrled and has newer sights. I love it, too, but not as much as the older one that is original. I like the .30-40 and as John T. Amber used to write, "the .30-40 wcf has killed, very dead, anything that walks in North America". Like the .303 British, I think it's one of the most underrated big game cartridges around. I also have a Krag rifle in .30-40.

I disagree about leaving it alone. There are some people doing wonderful work rechambering these guns. Keep the old barrel in case they skyrocket in price, but great guns deserve more than safe queen status.

I think Dave Scoville is tied in with that sort of thing, and that the "Hawk" line of cartridges are designed to make your gun into big medicine.

Why don't you post in the "Ask the Gunwriters" section of the campfire and get more input.

I would suggest doing a search on the gun before doing anything to it. Go to the Winchester collectors forums out there and find out. It could be a common place gun with issues or a collector grade with history. Check to see that you are not messing around with a true collectable. If it is, it should stay that way. That's my opinion.
http://www.winchestercollector.org/

The Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody WY is home to the factory records for Winchester. They can help you ( For a price) to research your gun.